When people say they have heard from sources at the club, I am presuming people who work there. Well maybe these people who work there have had their comfort blankets taken away. They have always worked under the RM & PV regime, when PV left the first time RM was still in charge.When PV came back with the new owners RM took a back seat and PV was back in situe. Well PV has now gone RM no longer has the power, maybe the sources are a little worried possibly scared as they haven't been in this situation before. The new owners maybe making changes, we have all been in a situation where a new boss comes in makes changes to how we have done things for many years, this can sometimes feel very unnerving and frightning but doesn't always mean things will go tits up.
I'm not saying this is the case but, it could be the reason for negative vibes coming out of the club, I would be more inclined to believe the bad vibed if they were from board members as opposed to employees. As yet I don't think this has been the case becauseIMHO all of the so called sources are employees.
Another well spoken piece....
Good post.......I'll go along with that as being quite likely.
I apologise if I've offended. I just find it incredibly frustrating, that people without any club contacts refuse to accept that there are problems. It's all great on the pitch etc.
No doubt Pompey fans probably thought that a few years ago at Wembley.
Anyway, I've had enough for today.
unfortunately I agree with this. Some people will not believe there is a problem at this club until we are in administration which is very frustrating!! The problem is, I don't think there is much we can do about the situation as it stands anyway!!
also it clearly was only announced because it was leaked, no one trusts this Board because they are closed and guarded (prior to these shennanigans).
But maybe that's exactly why these changes are happening. When the new board took over there was very little coming out in the way of rumours from "reliable sources". This summer there has been an explosion and maybe some of these rumours have been leaked by those who now no longer feature on the board or maybe some of the mystery backers who may or may not have pulled out.
I can understand the frustration but lets be honest if it wasn't for some on here telling us what they've heard would we have a clue about anything going on? We might have questioned the lack of signings but we all knew it wasn't going to be like last summer in that respect.
My feeling in all this is some are over reacting, generally people don't like change moreover they don't like the idea of change, until change actually occurs we have no idea if it is good or bad. I can understand why this board want to keep their dealings secret, yes it isn't what we are used to but come on, it worked well last season and at the time very few complained abou not knowing what was going on at board level.
also it clearly was only announced because it was leaked, no one trusts this Board because they are closed and guarded (prior to these shennanigans).
Razil, not sure you can speak for everyone.......
If you read other forums or speak to CAFC fans who don't use CL you will see that many do in fact trust the board. Maybe they shouldn't but they do.
I'm not convinced the concern for the club is much bigger than the people who read this forum.
Not saying they are right, you are wrong, just saying how I see it.
Not sure that he claims to speak for everyone, or anything else, he is as you state giving an opinion on a web site which has a section of Charlton fans. I agree that at present no individual group of fans, can speak on behalf of all Charlton fans. Perhaps that is the reason why some fan's think that we need an elected group of supporters/fans who are elected, and have a mandate open to all, to discuss the future of the club, and hopefully a constructive dialogue may one day take place.i.e. a supporters trust which the poster is an elected chairperson of ( interim). As a member of a couple of the above supporters groups, and as valuable s there contribution is, and hopefully will remain so they also do not speak for all Charlton fan's. Why not come along an express your views in an open forum, perhaps you may find you have more in common with fellow members.
I have no definitive new information to share at this stage, but I thoroughly disagree with what I'd call the 'deferential' view, that basically we should not seek to establish how the club is being run as a business until it is manifestly clear that it is in trouble. Presumably the deferential view would define "in trouble" as administration. That is clearly too late a stage at which to take an interest. We are not just customers as we are at, say Tesco. We are stakeholders. We cannot on our own finance the club successfully, but the club cannot exist without our continuing support and custom either.
The role of CEO in any business of this size is important. I am very concerned about Michael Slater's statement. As somebody pointed out above, it is patently absurd for a CEO to resign from the Board but stay on as CEO. Michael Slater will know that perfectly well. Therefore to say the speculation is 'ridiculous' is itself ridiculous. As people have pointed out, throughout the last 12 months, Michael Slater has made statements which came across as calm, measured and competent. The contrast with this statement is exactly what alarms me.
In the short term therefore, I wan to know exactly what Steve Kavanagh's role is and why it may have changed. I do not buy the argument that this is simply new owners changing the team as in any 'normal' takeover. In such cases, if the new owners are competent, and they wish to get rid of the CEO for reasons other than gross incompetence, they make him a generous financial offer, have the replacement lined up, and thank the incumbent profusely for his work in the last years (not least so as the incumbent can easily be hired by another employer). Manifestly that is not the process here. That indicates to me that there are serious problems. I intend to do my level best to find out exactly what they are. Those who do not wish to know, need not read such threads. I respect the argument that everybody should ask themselves to what extent another poster's remarks can be trusted or taken seriously. However a general trashing of all negative remarks tells us more about the trasher than the person being trashed.
One of the things that nobody seems to have picked up on is that the statement says he has resigned as a director - and that is significant. Yes he can continue as CEO (although without any real power) but resigning as a company director has legal ramifications. When you are a company director you have certain legal requirements relating to all sorts of things like financial transactions, health & safety, etc. (I'm not sure of all the responsibilities) - but basically you can be held accountable legally for misdoings. It could be that Steve is unhappy with some impending transaction, way of doing business or something of that nature that he feels may be either legally or morally wrong? Just yet another piece of guesswork but not being a director certainly removes some legal obligations.
I agree with you that this is a possibility and also wonder whether it is mere coincidence or not that Peter Varney apparently resigned as a director too.
If our owners or board members choose to remain in the shadows as a way of preserving and perhaps increasing their wealth, then so be it. It's not ideal from a supporters perspective, but if some of that wealth is then channeled into our football club, we should thankfully accept it. We have gone from having a very open board of directors consisting almost entirely of Charlton supporters, to a very secretive regime which has tested our faith and led to an element of mistrust. Perhaps we need to get used to the fact that this is how it's going to work from now on, and that if we want these people to continue backing the club, then we need to back off a little and let them make the changes that they feel are necessary to take the club forward. We cannot have our cake and eat it as well. There wasn't exactly a stampede of super wealthy consortiums fighting it out to take over the club and all it's debts. None of us know the real reason behind these recent changes, but had they occurred at the time of the takeover, alarm bells wouldn't be ringing to the extent that they are now.
You may be right saga, perhaps he should get a front man to speak on his behalf like our board......... That aside, the main premise of my opinion was that at present the poster was not claiming to speak for everyone, let alone all Charlton fans.
Just because changes are being made, it doesn't mean that they're necessarily for the worst.
It could be that the unhappy staff are right, that SK is being forced out by a group of nasty/ruthless/incompetent owners who are trying to destroy the club and will lead us to ruin.
Or
Maybe the staff leaking their moans and groans are just bitter staff who don't like having to change their work practices, ot are living in the past. Maybe SK wasn't as good at his job as he should be, none of us know. After all those staff were there for the good times in the PL, but also in the decline afterwards when the club was badly mismanaged on and off the pitch.
Maybe Slater is telling the truth, nothing that has happened so far suggests he is untrustworthy.
Pretty much does it for me k&f. Thing I can't understand is the supposed lack of money and apparent people chasing for it ,which I've still seen no evidence of. If the board were so bad and uncharlton like and they owed you money would you not start shouting from the rooftop that this band of charlatans are not coughing up?
You may be right saga, perhaps he should get a front man to speak on his behalf like our board......... That aside, the main premise of my opinion was that at present the poster was not claiming to speak for everyone, let alone all Charlton fans.
Actually Ken if you read Razil's message he says 'no one trusts the board' - he therefore is speaking for all of us in that sense.
"If the board were so bad and uncharlton like and they owed you money would you not start shouting from the rooftop that this band of charlatans are not coughing up?
Think I would."
Then I think you do not run your own business.
What you are talking about is the 'nuclear option' of leverage for unpaid bills. If you use it you will almost certainly never work with the debtor company again. In the current economic client, I doubt many of the club's suppliers are in such a strong position that they could afford to take that risk, unless the unpaid bill threatened the supplier's business existence.
You may be right saga, perhaps he should get a front man to speak on his behalf like our board......... That aside, the main premise of my opinion was that at present the poster was not claiming to speak for everyone, let alone all Charlton fans.
Actually Ken if you read Razil's message he says 'no one trusts the board' - he therefore is speaking for all of us in that sense.
please don't fall out people, I've corrected my comment and don't think it detracts from the point I was trying to make.
There are solutions out there...how acceptable is another matter. There may be a wedge of money available from somewhere to keep things going. There may be a firesale of players to raise money...which of course would mean losing Chris Powell (perhaps Dennis Wise would arrive in those circumstances). There could be a change of ownership. We could sell out every single game...that would sort out a lot of the problems. We don't know, but it may be prudent to prepare for stormy waters ahead, very stormy.
Most people by now would have thier season tickets by now, about 10,000 posted which is not cheap, quite a lot of money for tour to Spain also not cheap, wages and other sundries being paid, do not see the problem as purely financial more an inside power struggle that the old guard could never win.
Concerning stuff, Seth. Seems a shame that this board are maybe forgetting that the fans could be allies in getting out of a financial mess, instead of labelling rumours as "ridiculous".
A further concern of mine (at the risk of being called a doom-monger) is that promotion to the Championship means that interest payments are now due on the former directors' loans. How much of that could still be termed "friendly debt"?
Concerning stuff, Seth. Seems a shame that this board are maybe forgetting that the fans could be allies in getting out of a financial mess, instead of labelling rumours as "ridiculous".
A further concern of mine (at the risk of being called a doom-monger) is that promotion to the Championship means that interest payments are now due on the former directors' loans. How much of that could still be termed "friendly debt"?
If memory serves me right the interest rate is something like 6% too.
Not sure selling Lansdowne Mews under the nose of the club was "friendly" either!
I doubt many of the club's suppliers are in such a strong position that they could afford to take that risk, unless the unpaid bill threatened the supplier's business existence.
Not just club suppliers is it though. What about Joe Bloggs who works in the commercial centre.Is he being paid? Look at the club job centre. They are looking to recruit more matchday hospitality staff. Strange they are looking for more people to serve food and drink that's not been paid for.
It would be great if someone could verify this somehow
It was on the Official Site but now it's generic rather than individual I'm not sure how it can be accessed.
All in Derek Chappell's report for the relevant year anyway if anyone has an old set of accounts.
EDIT: I think what I've said above became redundant in 2010 if this thread is credible. Peanuts Molloy has posted on it and I think he knows his stuff.
I still say we need to keep an open mind about what is happening at the club at the moment, and should go on facts, not rumours and 'gloom and doom' worst case scenarios. We've spent money on players and academy staff this summer, albeit not as much as we would have liked. We've sold nobody No stories about our financial situation have appeared ANYWHERE in the local or national press.
As for recent developments 1) I don't know whether SK was doing a brilliant, average or terrible job, and neither does anyone else here know. 2) Those members of staff who are leaking stories, are they trying to protect their club or are they trying to protect their cosy jobs? 3) Our previous board may have been Charlton fans and did brilliantly for several years, but then made a complete horlicks of things - fans trusted them because of what they'd done, and stood by as we plunged into the abyss. The current board have steadied the ship, appointed a great manager, got us promoted at the first attempt and invested in the academy, yet people here don't trust them at all?
I think this whole situation has arisen due to fundamental disagreements at board level regarding the viability or otherwise of real ale at the valley. Or is it the smoking in the toilets?
Comments
If you read other forums or speak to CAFC fans who don't use CL you will see that many do in fact trust the board. Maybe they shouldn't but they do.
I'm not convinced the concern for the club is much bigger than the people who read this forum.
Not saying they are right, you are wrong, just saying how I see it.
I can understand the frustration but lets be honest if it wasn't for some on here telling us what they've heard would we have a clue about anything going on? We might have questioned the lack of signings but we all knew it wasn't going to be like last summer in that respect.
My feeling in all this is some are over reacting, generally people don't like change moreover they don't like the idea of change, until change actually occurs we have no idea if it is good or bad. I can understand why this board want to keep their dealings secret, yes it isn't what we are used to but come on, it worked well last season and at the time very few complained abou not knowing what was going on at board level.
I agree that at present no individual group of fans, can speak on behalf of all Charlton fans. Perhaps that is the reason why some fan's think that we need an elected group of supporters/fans who are elected, and have a mandate open to all, to discuss the future of the club, and hopefully a constructive dialogue may one day take place.i.e. a supporters trust which the poster is an elected chairperson of ( interim). As a member of a couple of the above supporters groups, and as valuable s there contribution is, and hopefully will remain so they also do not speak for all Charlton fan's. Why not come along an express your views in an open forum, perhaps you may find you have more in common with fellow members.
We are not just customers as we are at, say Tesco. We are stakeholders. We cannot on our own finance the club successfully, but the club cannot exist without our continuing support and custom either.
The role of CEO in any business of this size is important. I am very concerned about Michael Slater's statement. As somebody pointed out above, it is patently absurd for a CEO to resign from the Board but stay on as CEO. Michael Slater will know that perfectly well. Therefore to say the speculation is 'ridiculous' is itself ridiculous. As people have pointed out, throughout the last 12 months, Michael Slater has made statements which came across as calm, measured and competent. The contrast with this statement is exactly what alarms me.
In the short term therefore, I wan to know exactly what Steve Kavanagh's role is and why it may have changed. I do not buy the argument that this is simply new owners changing the team as in any 'normal' takeover. In such cases, if the new owners are competent, and they wish to get rid of the CEO for reasons other than gross incompetence, they make him a generous financial offer, have the replacement lined up, and thank the incumbent profusely for his work in the last years (not least so as the incumbent can easily be hired by another employer). Manifestly that is not the process here. That indicates to me that there are serious problems. I intend to do my level best to find out exactly what they are. Those who do not wish to know, need not read such threads. I respect the argument that everybody should ask themselves to what extent another poster's remarks can be trusted or taken seriously. However a general trashing of all negative remarks tells us more about the trasher than the person being trashed.
Just an opinion on a discussion forum.
None of us know the real reason behind these recent changes, but had they occurred at the time of the takeover, alarm bells wouldn't be ringing to the extent that they are now.
That aside, the main premise of my opinion was that at present the poster was not claiming to speak for everyone, let alone all Charlton fans.
Thing I can't understand is the supposed lack of money and apparent people chasing for it ,which I've still seen no evidence of.
If the board were so bad and uncharlton like and they owed you money would you not start shouting from the rooftop that this band of charlatans are not coughing up?
Think I would.
Hope that helps, I would never claim to speak for everyone or indeed anyone..
This is Baton 2010 at Companies House. Varney already showing as resigned (Appointment Terminated) as director. Kavanagh to show soon I guess.
"If the board were so bad and uncharlton like and they owed you money would you not start shouting from the rooftop that this band of charlatans are not coughing up?
Think I would."
Then I think you do not run your own business.
What you are talking about is the 'nuclear option' of leverage for unpaid bills. If you use it you will almost certainly never work with the debtor company again. In the current economic client, I doubt many of the club's suppliers are in such a strong position that they could afford to take that risk, unless the unpaid bill threatened the supplier's business existence.
We don't know, but it may be prudent to prepare for stormy waters ahead, very stormy.
A further concern of mine (at the risk of being called a doom-monger) is that promotion to the Championship means that interest payments are now due on the former directors' loans. How much of that could still be termed "friendly debt"?
Not sure selling Lansdowne Mews under the nose of the club was "friendly" either!
Not just club suppliers is it though. What about Joe Bloggs who works in the commercial centre.Is he being paid?
Look at the club job centre. They are looking to recruit more matchday hospitality staff.
Strange they are looking for more people to serve food and drink that's not been paid for.
All in Derek Chappell's report for the relevant year anyway if anyone has an old set of accounts.
EDIT: I think what I've said above became redundant in 2010 if this thread is credible. Peanuts Molloy has posted on it and I think he knows his stuff.
http://charltonlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/36425/richard-murrays-charlton-hopes-and-fears-for-the-future
Scaremongering of the absolute highest order!
Well done.
We've spent money on players and academy staff this summer, albeit not as much as we would have liked.
We've sold nobody
No stories about our financial situation have appeared ANYWHERE in the local or national press.
As for recent developments
1) I don't know whether SK was doing a brilliant, average or terrible job, and neither does anyone else here know.
2) Those members of staff who are leaking stories, are they trying to protect their club or are they trying to protect their cosy jobs?
3) Our previous board may have been Charlton fans and did brilliantly for several years, but then made a complete horlicks of things - fans trusted them because of what they'd done, and stood by as we plunged into the abyss. The current board have steadied the ship, appointed a great manager, got us promoted at the first attempt and invested in the academy, yet people here don't trust them at all?
Oh I don't know. If the word 'perhaps' is scaremongering then the term is more powerful than I realised.
Thanks for the compliment though.