Not wanting to defend Millwall fans, but Sordell need to spend less time on Twitter and more time concentrating on his football career, as he has been useless for Bolton.
This 13 year old was found guilty of abuse, not racist abuse, and by the sound of things Sorvell was abusive back to a child, so he's hardly the shrinking violet himself. Since when do people who suffer unacceptable abuse at a game use Twitter several hours later to make a complaint? Surely you'd complain to the referee, stewards, your team management at the time? If I had been racially abused, the first thing I would have done is told my manager there and then.
In another tweet Mr Lawrence said, 'blacks and whites: obviously not the same because whites do not cry like sissies and fairies when they are booed by pre-teens.'
There's racial abuse posted on a social networking site. Maybe the 13 year old didn't say anything like Soapy I couldn't care less, but quite clearly you have a racist element that you continue to deny and blame the media.
Millwall FC can't help what views people hold, and people hold these views for all manner of reasons; whether through poor upbringings, poor education, bad experiences, etc etc. As a club they've done more than most to highlight & challenge racism.
millwall do attract an element of scum. No other club in the country has produce Galatasaray flag, you may get the odd flag and Turkish shirt but anything on that level? And what is the deal with Leeds? They're a big club in Yorkshire who you've hardly ever played until recently and have no connection with.
Fans reveal in the no one likes us image and it probably goes as far as to attract racist. Nothing to do with being poor...
As for the case, why would he report a 13 year old for racially abusing him? What does he gain from it? Assuming the boy is innocent, that's one person who's be falsely charged (although will probably be let back in after his training) compared to how many who have got away with things for years?
i still think that for the first time ever Millwall have handled the situation and punishment of the boy correctly there is a chance to re educate a youngster to the error of his ways should it fail then atleast they tried
dont understand bookface or twatter so dont understand what any of it could mean
the flag waving thing although relevant to other discussions around the behaviour and mentality of some of the people that associate with millwall is not a proof of racism nor anything to do with this argument
dont think i would be comfortable with fans being banned for saying a player is a Cunext tuesday either on a banner or not
it might not be in good taste and surely a wrap on the knuckles is more in line and booted out for that game
you may be right about the sordell incident, unfortunately your club has agreed to it so we'll never know.
The point i was trying to make is when a large proportion of your fans think its acceptable to act like they are in that photo (theres men, women and children of all ages there) then other fans, not just charltons, and governing bodies, will see any further incidents as crying wolf.
Whether thats 'prejudice' or not, your fans need to do themselves a favour.
i still think that for the first time ever Millwall have handled the situation and punishment of the boy correctly there is a chance to re educate a youngster to the error of his ways should it fail then atleast they tried
Exactly. They probably couldn't do a proper investigate due to what the fans have gotten away with in the pass.
In another tweet Mr Lawrence said, 'blacks and whites: obviously not the same because whites do not cry like sissies and fairies when they are booed by pre-teens.'
There's racial abuse posted on a social networking site. Maybe the 13 year old didn't say anything like Soapy I couldn't care less, but quite clearly you have a racist element that you continue to deny and blame the media.
Millwall FC can't help what views people hold, and people hold these views for all manner of reasons; whether through poor upbringings, poor education, bad experiences, etc etc. As a club they've done more than most to highlight & challenge racism.
millwall do attract an element of scum. No other club in the country has produce Galatasaray flag, you may get the odd flag and Turkish shirt but anything on that level? And what is the deal with Leeds? They're a big club in Yorkshire who you've hardly ever played until recently and have no connection with.
Fans reveal in the no one likes us image and it probably goes as far as to attract racist. Nothing to do with being poor...
As for the case, why would he report a 13 year old for racially abusing him? What does he gain from it? Assuming the boy is innocent, that's one person who's be falsely charged (although will probably be let back in after his training) compared to how many who have got away with things for years?
Us & Leeds have had a healthy on the pitch rivalry over the last few years, play-off games, tense league games, hostility off the pitch. Leeds enjoy the games as much as we do. That's the deal, pretty easy to see why I would've thought.
I'm lost as your point. You say the no one likes us image may attract racists. It may do, I don't know. But they are already racist before they set foot in the club, so why & how do people develop racist views?
Unfortunately if i were to come on here after Sundays match i wont be able to defend some things that go on.
The sordell incident is big imo - and the damage that has been done is quite tangible around our parts.
If you truly are anti-racist and want it kicked out for good then surely you can see that?
Sadly with no audio evidence its Sordells word against the lads, and his uncle, who seems to be the only other person who heard what went on. Like others have said, if he had been racially abused do you think his team mates would have stood there laughing as Sordell abused him back, either Sordell, or one of his other team mates, be they black or white would have reacted at the time in a wholly different way IMO.
I seriously worry that MFC have used this 13 year old boy in a PR stunt to back up their own anti racism stance, with no real proof, other than he verbally abused him, which he admits too, he rightly should be punished for, but educational programmes regards racism when there is no proof smacks of tokenism and PR by MFC.
Sunday....you wont be able to defend the indefensible if it happens, not illegal or racist to wave Turkish flags or wear galatasary shirts, but highly offensive, people died FFS, and people would do well to remember that their actions could lead to public disorder which could lead them to be charged with offences along those lines.
DeFoe actually baffles me as i honestly dont think he understands the issue (he's still going on about our/the clubs statement)...and thts it thats one of the main issue...a 13 year old has been hung out to dry by a player liars at the end of the day on twitter...i dont know how its not difficult to grasp....quite a few of you other bretherin seem to grasp it...why not you?
as for the NOLU think whole seperate issue....and one i'm sure has been debated on here plenty of times....but for once try and disemminate whats at stake here....
I almost had an open mind. The Turkish stuff convinced me. Millwall fans just revel and condone this sort of stuff. Just look at the pic. Almost every one of them. I really don't believe we would ever do such a thing. I would certainly be telling people what I thought and would be off home. If you condone scum you attract scum.
I almost had an open mind. The Turkish stuff convinced me. Millwall fans just revel and condone this sort of stuff. Just look at the pic. Almost every one of them. I really don't believe we would ever do such a thing. I would certainly be telling people what I thought and would be off home. If you condone scum you attract scum.
I take it you have never abused for instance Simon Jordan then for being Orange? or at least thought about it?
well maybe.. and hopefully some of you now see what actually has occurred.
i might join in some proper banter for the week up to the Dec 1st, where lets face it we are on a hiding to nothing since i cant even remember the last time you beat us? was it Bob Bolder's team at Upton Park or the snow game?
unfortunately the two games i always remember against you on a persnal level were at Selhurst Park (3-3 late season evening game - i think we were 3-0 up, and of course the Les Briley stunner in our 3-0 demolition for our 3rd game in the top flite back in 88)....
psssss...i also wont menton the Maidstione away game where i was taken as a little boy back in the 70's
Galatassary stuff does my head in nowadays. Embarrassing.
It is well below the belt but whatever impact it had on winding Leeds up (if that's what the intention is), then that impact faded many many years ago. They don't give the reaction some Millwall want and I look around seeing people chanting it, that do know better, but "it's all a wind up ain't it, I don't mean it"
Seemingly forgetting how close some of us came to being opened up properly in Budapest, or one of ours being plunged whilst massively outnumbered against west ham the other year.
To be fair we've had it all back, Ferencvaros flags, west ham songs etc etc and it still goes on up & down the country with most teams, every club has their groups who'll go down another level.
I moved on from the 13 year old about an hour ago. Perhaps he's being made an example, I wonder why the club feels the need to do this?
They are constantly being attacked in the press about their fans behaviour (most of the time rightly IMO) and they saw this as an opportunity to give themselves a pat on the back and to raise their profile/image with a positive news story for once (positive in the sense that they are seen to be doing something)
I see in today's SLP that the Spanner's CEO Andy Ambler maintains that the club dealt with this situation 'fairly' and that they might lose a major sponsorship deal because of the Sordell incident.The SLP is very much a Millwall paper and would put the club's viewpoint forward with no agenda.
Someone is being economical with the truth here,but who?The club itself or the boys family?
I work with a Millwall fan and season ticket holder who is a paid up member of the Labour Party and quite as politically correct in attitude as anyone that way inclined in this forum could want.
He says it's much ado about nothing and, on this occasion if no other, I think it probable that Millwall fans actually are innocent victims of their reputation.
In another tweet Mr Lawrence said, 'blacks and whites: obviously not the same because whites do not cry like sissies and fairies when they are booed by pre-teens.'
There's racial abuse posted on a social networking site. Maybe the 13 year old didn't say anything like Soapy I couldn't care less, but quite clearly you have a racist element that you continue to deny and blame the media.
Of course there are Millwall fans that are racist. Just like there are Charlton fans who are racist. Just like there are lawyers, policeman, firemen, schoolteachers, soldiers etc that are racist.
Being a Millwall fan doesn't make you a racist, but there are racists who go to Millwall. I don't know where this is denied or how the media can be blamed?
Millwall FC can't help what views people hold, and people hold these views for all manner of reasons; whether through poor upbringings, poor education, bad experiences, etc etc. As a club they've done more than most to highlight & challenge racism.
But it's not something that is challenged and beaten on 23 match days a year is it. Not if people are surrounded by negative comments, thoughts & actions on a daily basis in their lives. You have to wonder why people develop these thoughts & views and tackle that cause, not try & blame a football club. It's much easier to just blame the club & call all fans scum because it's easy to sweep under the carpet and avoid the real issues that need addressing.
Richard - this 13 year old is nothing to do with the Facebook thing. There were some reports where the two were linked but most of these were changed as they were wrong.
& as for some of the comments on Twitter towards Sordell (& not just Sordell, some of the shit that's get written to Evra, Ferdinand, Collymore, Billy Sharp, Neville etc) is disgusting and makes me wonder what on earth are parents doing with their kids nowadays.
Bang on the money SLL.
I detest your club and some of it's support but I often find myself defending them funnily enough!!
I can look beyond the anti-millwall viewpoint and will do on this occassion!
Re, the Gala flag waving - yeah it's in very bad taste, esp for someone like me, who can't stand the turks. That said it goes on and it's just done to get a reaction and it's hardly just Millwall at it. Wednesday were singing songs about it the other week. Leeds have sang about munich for yonks etc - it just goes round and round with some clubs.
I sometimes think our fanbase is very niave as to what goes on at football up and down the Country outside their Charlton bubble.
Doesn't anyone else find it weird that in the report by the fans' director the club don't seem to have had a problem with a banner calling another human being a c**t?
Comments
This 13 year old was found guilty of abuse, not racist abuse, and by the sound of things Sorvell was abusive back to a child, so he's hardly the shrinking violet himself. Since when do people who suffer unacceptable abuse at a game use Twitter several hours later to make a complaint? Surely you'd complain to the referee, stewards, your team management at the time? If I had been racially abused, the first thing I would have done is told my manager there and then.
Unfortunately if i were to come on here after Sundays match i wont be able to defend some things that go on.
The sordell incident is big imo - and the damage that has been done is quite tangible around our parts.
If you truly are anti-racist and want it kicked out for good then surely you can see that?
Fans reveal in the no one likes us image and it probably goes as far as to attract racist. Nothing to do with being poor...
As for the case, why would he report a 13 year old for racially abusing him? What does he gain from it? Assuming the boy is innocent, that's one person who's be falsely charged (although will probably be let back in after his training) compared to how many who have got away with things for years?
dont understand bookface or twatter so dont understand what any of it could mean
the flag waving thing although relevant to other discussions around the behaviour and mentality of some of the people that associate with millwall is not a proof of racism nor anything to do with this argument
dont think i would be comfortable with fans being banned for saying a player is a Cunext tuesday either on a banner or not
it might not be in good taste and surely a wrap on the knuckles is more in line and booted out for that game
The point i was trying to make is when a large proportion of your fans think its acceptable to act like they are in that photo (theres men, women and children of all ages there) then other fans, not just charltons, and governing bodies, will see any further incidents as crying wolf.
Whether thats 'prejudice' or not, your fans need to do themselves a favour.
I'm lost as your point. You say the no one likes us image may attract racists. It may do, I don't know. But they are already racist before they set foot in the club, so why & how do people develop racist views?
Like others have said, if he had been racially abused do you think his team mates would have stood there laughing as Sordell abused him back, either Sordell, or one of his other team mates, be they black or white would have reacted at the time in a wholly different way IMO.
I seriously worry that MFC have used this 13 year old boy in a PR stunt to back up their own anti racism stance, with no real proof, other than he verbally abused him, which he admits too, he rightly should be punished for, but educational programmes regards racism when there is no proof smacks of tokenism and PR by MFC.
Sunday....you wont be able to defend the indefensible if it happens, not illegal or racist to wave Turkish flags or wear galatasary shirts, but highly offensive, people died FFS, and people would do well to remember that their actions could lead to public disorder which could lead them to be charged with offences along those lines.
DeFoe actually baffles me as i honestly dont think he understands the issue (he's still going on about our/the clubs statement)...and thts it thats one of the main issue...a 13 year old has been hung out to dry by a player liars at the end of the day on twitter...i dont know how its not difficult to grasp....quite a few of you other bretherin seem to grasp it...why not you?
as for the NOLU think whole seperate issue....and one i'm sure has been debated on here plenty of times....but for once try and disemminate whats at stake here....
If you condone scum you attract scum.
calling someone orange for tanning too much and waving the national flag of the place where leeds fans lost their lives....almost the same
you fight fire with fire gary......
and whether its tango man, galatasary, or the brum wall incident...you give it as long as you can receive it...
if you would like you can start another thread about Galatsaray only too willing to contribute....
I moved on from the 13 year old about an hour ago. Perhaps he's being made an example, I wonder why the club feels the need to do this?
I would like to know how the Bolton player has benefited by playing the race card.
i might join in some proper banter for the week up to the Dec 1st, where lets face it we are on a hiding to nothing since i cant even remember the last time you beat us? was it Bob Bolder's team at Upton Park or the snow game?
unfortunately the two games i always remember against you on a persnal level were at Selhurst Park (3-3 late season evening game - i think we were 3-0 up, and of course the Les Briley stunner in our 3-0 demolition for our 3rd game in the top flite back in 88)....
psssss...i also wont menton the Maidstione away game where i was taken as a little boy back in the 70's
It is well below the belt but whatever impact it had on winding Leeds up (if that's what the intention is), then that impact faded many many years ago. They don't give the reaction some Millwall want and I look around seeing people chanting it, that do know better, but "it's all a wind up ain't it, I don't mean it"
Seemingly forgetting how close some of us came to being opened up properly in Budapest, or one of ours being plunged whilst massively outnumbered against west ham the other year.
To be fair we've had it all back, Ferencvaros flags, west ham songs etc etc and it still goes on up & down the country with most teams, every club has their groups who'll go down another level.
Someone is being economical with the truth here,but who?The club itself or the boys family?
He says it's much ado about nothing and, on this occasion if no other, I think it probable that Millwall fans actually are innocent victims of their reputation.
Bang on the money SLL.
I detest your club and some of it's support but I often find myself defending them funnily enough!!
I can look beyond the anti-millwall viewpoint and will do on this occassion!
Re, the Gala flag waving - yeah it's in very bad taste, esp for someone like me, who can't stand the turks. That said it goes on and it's just done to get a reaction and it's hardly just Millwall at it. Wednesday were singing songs about it the other week. Leeds have sang about munich for yonks etc - it just goes round and round with some clubs.
I sometimes think our fanbase is very niave as to what goes on at football up and down the Country outside their Charlton bubble.
take another look at that photo. look how many kids and women are involved. i just find that weird and a bit disturbing.