We looked to be doing okay at it to me? Can't remember a defender giving a ball away other than when we lumped it forward. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather we pass forward and create chances but I just think people need to be more patient and accept that there's nothing wrong with keep ball especially if the opposition attackers aren't closing us down. I've never thought of going to Charlton as getting what I pay for, I'd have stopped going years ago with a philosophy like that.
The best way to see that match out yesterday was to keep the ball.I was saying that to my mate yesterday.He was one of them who was screaming for the ball to be pumped forwards.We as a club and the Country as a whole are useless at keeping the ball.It is not necessarily negative as you can fashion a chance if you are progressive with it.The whole culture in this Country needs to change or we will continue to be a third rate football nation.The passing and ball retention in other Countries is so much better than here.I watch a lot of European football and their technical ability is much better than ours.I feel the crowds over here need to be a lot more patient.It is working at a club like Swansea.
Noo the best way to see the game out was to score a second, and for that to happen we need to attack, once we get a second then we may have a bit more confidence, which can lead to seeing the best out of the players, even CP said it !
Are Barcelona negative? As they keep the ball better than anybody.
I would refer you to some of the Euro 2012 threads for Spain games when I seemed to be voice in the wilderness amongst many claiming they are bored with their tippy tappy, possession based (successful) football. Probably many of the same people complaining about our fans doing the same thing yesterday :-)
i think we just need to get used to playing in this league this year and look to improve for next season,but i am a bit pissed off that Millwall beat this lot 4--0 just a few weeks ago.Just glad the teams below us are loosing ground
Whilst we were knocking the ball about at the back, Huddersfield weren't doing a single thing to get it back off us, sitting back and waiting instead.
Why that made everyone around me so incredibly angry, I really have no idea. What a peculiar set of people...
Firstly i haven't just paid £20 to see the ball knocked about at the back.
Well, technically you have if that's what they're doing.
Huddersfield were sitting back and waiting for us to come at them. Until they start putting pressure on the ball, there was no need to stop passing it around at the back - we were 1-0 up and the clock was running down.
Whilst we were knocking the ball about at the back, Huddersfield weren't doing a single thing to get it back off us, sitting back and waiting instead.
Why that made everyone around me so incredibly angry, I really have no idea. What a peculiar set of people...
Firstly i haven't just paid £20 to see the ball knocked about at the back.
Its not about you though. You're not the manager and you're not one of the professionals on the pitch trying to win the game. So many fans yesterday were just lacking patience. Like listening to kids who just get the hump if they haven't got something stimulating to look at all the time.
We were knocking the ball about very well. What hindered that was the evident pressure of the supporters getting on their backs for doing it.
Whilst we were knocking the ball about at the back, Huddersfield weren't doing a single thing to get it back off us, sitting back and waiting instead.
Why that made everyone around me so incredibly angry, I really have no idea. What a peculiar set of people...
Firstly i haven't just paid £20 to see the ball knocked about at the back.
Well, technically you have if that's what they're doing.
Huddersfield were sitting back and waiting for us to come at them. Until they start putting pressure on the ball, there was no need to stop passing it around at the back - we were 1-0 up and the clock was running down.
1-0 up with 30 minutes to go. I'd still rather we go for a 2nd goal and kill the game that way than hoping we can hang on to 1-0.
We were knocking the ball about very well. What hindered that was the evident pressure of the supporters getting on their backs for doing it.
Except that we WEREN'T knocking the ball about very well - I would have been happy if we had been. We were knocking the ball about without ever looking for the possibility of an incisive pass forward which had become possible because of the patient ball-retention. Instead we knocked the ball about then finally hoofed it forward and lost possession and all that knocking it about came to nothing. That's not the intelligent sophisticated football which you are claiming all us fans are too stupid to understand.
Mr. Happy said: We were knocking the ball about very well. What hindered that was the evident pressure of the supporters getting on their backs for doing it.
Except that we WEREN'T knocking the ball about very well - I would have been happy if we had been. We were knocking the ball about without ever looking for the possibility of an incisive pass forward which had become possible because of the patient ball-retention. Instead we knocked the ball about then finally hoofed it forward and lost possession and all that knocking it about came to nothing. That's not the intelligent sophisticated football which you are claiming all us fans are too stupid to understand.
Huddersfield were always going to get a second wind and make an effort in the last 15-20 minutes, its the way of the game. Keep the ball and once they make that commitment, hit them on the break. Easier said than done in fairness.
Instead we knocked the ball about then finally hoofed it forward and lost possession and all that knocking it about came to nothing. That's not the intelligent sophisticated football which you are claiming all us fans are too stupid to understand.
Thing is, with them not making any effort to get the ball back off us, there was no need to hoof it forwards either. It could be argued, as some are, that the hoofing forward was a reaction to the crowds frustration.
...Why do people see keeping the ball and taking the sting out of the game negative?Are Barcelona negative? As they keep the ball better than anybody.
Why? Because it's boring watching the ball shuffle this way and that across the back. If it were a guaranteed way to win, then I'm sure people would accept it; but it isn't. It's arguable whether playing to keep the ball or playing to get the second is the more effective strategy. Some people believe holding it is better, others say that attack is the best form of defence. What's not arguable is what is the more entertaining brand of football.
You raise the question of Barcelona, but for me it's a total red herring. It's no good modelling ourselves on them because our players don't have anything like the same level of skill. Nor does any other team that we will be playing for the foreseeable future. They are an a completely different level to us. Sure, it's not negative when they do it because they have a whole team of players with the vision and class to notice an opportunity and open a team up in a split second: with one sublime pass the game changes from keeping to attacking. I don't know about you, but I don't feel very confident that this is something that we have at Charlton.
It really does worry me when we change tack when facing 10 men. If for no other reason than psychologically I think it puts us on the back foot. If you're playing confident attacking football against 11 men (I'm not saying that we were yesterday) and feel that you can beat them that way, then why wouldn't that method work against ten? Sure they'll line up defensively hoping for one break, but I think that by worrying about what they'll do and how they can get behind you if you attack too much it brings some fear into the minds of the players. You don't have to have played at a level any higher than park football to know that so much of this game is about what goes on in your head. If you're worried about what the opposition might do, you become far less able to be effective in what you do. That for me, is what seems to happen to Charlton time and again when we have a numerical advantage. Rather than getting on with our game we play into their hands and then with one slip up the game is given away.
To be honest, I was getting a bit bored with us playing it around the back in the second half. Take the sting out of the game, sure, but we were up against 10 men. But then again, we weren't exactly playing well full stop, so I guess I can understand it.
If we'd won 1-0 I would've still been bored, but the ends justify the means. But we didn't win, so now as well as feeling bored I feel frustrated.
Still, that's football. At least we didn't somehow contrive to lose it in the end!
All the time when there's disgruntlement and sighs and groans some people claim its booing and whilst I wasn't there today (man flu) at the end would the booooing have been for the ref cos let's not forget its always their fault with some of our fans
I might have 'heard' what I thought were boos when it was, in fact, groans and shouts. Same result in my view. The fans got on the players backs and forced the long ball that cost us the possession which cost is the two points, in my view.
Rightly so at 1 0 they were still in the game there we are pussy footing about with the ball 72 passes and the ball still with the cort get hold of the bloody thing and lauch attack after attack and put them under pressure if they score we have had a good go at em
Didn't think the booing was that bad, certainly not many doing it.
I agree that keeping possession is good and there's nothing wrong with taking time, but to say there was nothing to get frustrated about is clearly deluded (despite how much you may have played the game). Retaining the ball and passing with purpose is one thing; Passing sideways because you don't know what to do with it and/or the off the ball movement is poor bordering on non existent is another. We were doing the later.
just when i thought we had turned the corner on the booing scenario, it rears it's ugly head again. Have we really forgotten how much we helped the team against Cardiff?? Come guys n girls, we keep saying how the players must raise their game and be more consistant, well it's our turn to lead the way and set an example. Let's all lay off booing players and the way we play and knuckle down, no matter how you feel.
A lot of generalising here. There were particular events yesterday that are being over-looked. Frimpong going off; major event as VFF points out above. Result- no passes across field and forward. Stephens takes the backwards or sideways option nearly all the time. How comes Stephens didn't step into the play making role. He can, but he didn't. All players in forward positions started to play with backs to goal. Little movement up front. This further compounded the defensive/ negative stye of play.
It's not the whole squad that struggles against ten men. It's one or two players influencing the game negatively. The one player who needs some kind of sports psychology is Stephens based on yesterday's evidence. But also did the captain try to influence the style of play in any way? I find it notable how our players seem to suffer collectively languidity whatever the opportunity before them (i.e. yesterday 10 men when playing at home). There are people at the club and in the squad who's job it is to stop that.
So some disgruntlement was understandable, but overall what's there to worry about? We have players coming back and are now unbeaten in 4. Every match has its talking points which is the beauty of the game. And credit to Huddersfield. In Alan Lee they have a totemic player who sparked them into life.
I totally agree with the first post, one guy behind us told a negative person a few rows behind him to 'go run and jump' (you know what I mean), I must say that I was in total agreement with him. We've just come up and they are working extremely hard, i'm proud of them so far, football is not science and sometimes things just don't work for you and thats what happened yesterday, keep it up guys and we'll be fine. Negativity will only take us the wrong way.
I understand the point your making but don't you agree that we weren't agressive enough and if we had pushed for that second goal we would have earned an extra 2 points rather than lose them? No booing won't help and will pressure the players but I have to admit it was frustrating watching the players constantly passing back and forth with no real movement goal-ward or maybe I'm impatient?
Yes it was frustrating, but thats football. i'm just just happy that we are playing this standard of football as league one was at times shocking. We could have pushed more but I could see that they were trying to get the balance right, as they looked dangerous on the break if we left it short at the back.
i don't know what anyone else thinks but imo this season has been..... the larger the crowd=the worse the atmosphere=the worse the performance.
i've noticed that for the three larger attendances we've had this season there has been an air of expectation which is completely out of sync with our current position as a club and a team.
just from where i sit in the NU which has a large number of day tickets available in it, there has been alot of people coming that literally believe we should still be at the premier days level or as good as what you see in the premier/european competitions - as thats what they mostly watch so don't really understand that we have just come up a division with largely the same side and barcelona/arsenal we are not!
for the smaller attendances i have noticed a much less poisonous attitude from the fans when things aren't going to plan.
i understand that the club needs these extra fans to keep coming back regularly, but if it means they're gonna boo when we're winning, i'd rather they didn't
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Don't get me wrong, I'd rather we pass forward and create chances but I just think people need to be more patient and accept that there's nothing wrong with keep ball especially if the opposition attackers aren't closing us down.
I've never thought of going to Charlton as getting what I pay for, I'd have stopped going years ago with a philosophy like that.
Huddersfield were sitting back and waiting for us to come at them. Until they start putting pressure on the ball, there was no need to stop passing it around at the back - we were 1-0 up and the clock was running down.
We were knocking the ball about very well. What hindered that was the evident pressure of the supporters getting on their backs for doing it.
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Baldybonce said:
Mr. Happy said:
We were knocking the ball about very well. What hindered that was the evident pressure of the supporters getting on their backs for doing it.
Except that we WEREN'T knocking the ball about very well - I would have been happy if we had been. We were knocking the ball about without ever looking for the possibility of an incisive pass forward which had become possible because of the patient ball-retention. Instead we knocked the ball about then finally hoofed it forward and lost possession and all that knocking it about came to nothing. That's not the intelligent sophisticated football which you are claiming all us fans are too stupid to understand.
You raise the question of Barcelona, but for me it's a total red herring. It's no good modelling ourselves on them because our players don't have anything like the same level of skill. Nor does any other team that we will be playing for the foreseeable future. They are an a completely different level to us. Sure, it's not negative when they do it because they have a whole team of players with the vision and class to notice an opportunity and open a team up in a split second: with one sublime pass the game changes from keeping to attacking. I don't know about you, but I don't feel very confident that this is something that we have at Charlton.
It really does worry me when we change tack when facing 10 men. If for no other reason than psychologically I think it puts us on the back foot. If you're playing confident attacking football against 11 men (I'm not saying that we were yesterday) and feel that you can beat them that way, then why wouldn't that method work against ten? Sure they'll line up defensively hoping for one break, but I think that by worrying about what they'll do and how they can get behind you if you attack too much it brings some fear into the minds of the players. You don't have to have played at a level any higher than park football to know that so much of this game is about what goes on in your head. If you're worried about what the opposition might do, you become far less able to be effective in what you do. That for me, is what seems to happen to Charlton time and again when we have a numerical advantage. Rather than getting on with our game we play into their hands and then with one slip up the game is given away.
If we'd won 1-0 I would've still been bored, but the ends justify the means. But we didn't win, so now as well as feeling bored I feel frustrated.
Still, that's football. At least we didn't somehow contrive to lose it in the end!
get hold of the bloody thing and lauch attack after attack and put them under pressure
if they score we have had a good go at em
I agree that keeping possession is good and there's nothing wrong with taking time, but to say there was nothing to get frustrated about is clearly deluded (despite how much you may have played the game). Retaining the ball and passing with purpose is one thing; Passing sideways because you don't know what to do with it and/or the off the ball movement is poor bordering on non existent is another. We were doing the later.
It's not the whole squad that struggles against ten men. It's one or two players influencing the game negatively. The one player who needs some kind of sports psychology is Stephens based on yesterday's evidence. But also did the captain try to influence the style of play in any way? I find it notable how our players seem to suffer collectively languidity whatever the opportunity before them (i.e. yesterday 10 men when playing at home). There are people at the club and in the squad who's job it is to stop that.
So some disgruntlement was understandable, but overall what's there to worry about? We have players coming back and are now unbeaten in 4. Every match has its talking points which is the beauty of the game. And credit to Huddersfield. In Alan Lee they have a totemic player who sparked them into life.
i've noticed that for the three larger attendances we've had this season there has been an air of expectation which is completely out of sync with our current position as a club and a team.
just from where i sit in the NU which has a large number of day tickets available in it, there has been alot of people coming that literally believe we should still be at the premier days level or as good as what you see in the premier/european competitions - as thats what they mostly watch so don't really understand that we have just come up a division with largely the same side and barcelona/arsenal we are not!
for the smaller attendances i have noticed a much less poisonous attitude from the fans when things aren't going to plan.
i understand that the club needs these extra fans to keep coming back regularly, but if it means they're gonna boo when we're winning, i'd rather they didn't
Never during the game never due to poor play on the pitch during the 90 mins