"But despite Tony Blair and other senior Labour politicians saying they were in favour of the idea when in opposition, they changed their position when in power."
whatever is said, the fact still remains its a difficult one to come back from, and since all seater safety has improved.. I'd love safe standing myself.
I still think that even if they were allowed to, not many clubs would convert existing seating areas to standing - the economics wouldn't stack up. Might make a difference for new stands though.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]whatever is said, the fact still remains its a difficult one to come back from, and since all seater safety has improved.. I'd love safe standing myself.
No real prove of that, people being crushed in Lille in a all seater, killed at an all Seater at Ellis Park. Injury stats are hogwash.
i'm all for it, but lets get one thing clear, it would NOT enhance the atmosphere at The Valley one bit.
In fact it would make it worse.
The only possible place at The Valley that could be made safe standing is the North Lower, and that has no roof or acoustics. You take those in the North Upper who sing and stick them in the Lower and gone would be the atmosphere in an instant.
If you take out "the Man U factor" then safety probably has improved IMO. But then your average football punter has changed over the years and so has the image of the game, so you can't really compare like with like.
Would we have 15-20k season ticket holders if they still had to piss out in the open at the back of the east terrace or queue up for the one crapper? Who knows.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]singers are no good mate when there is no roof to project it.
And if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction the players and away fans wont hear a thing but the people shopping in Woolwich will think we were amazing!
Serious question. Even if they did change the law, how many clubs would actually want to rip out seats? Why would they do this? Why spend money on something that would likely reduce your turnover - it just doesn't make sense.
I may have posted this before as probably has our Fans Director, but Charlton have been the ONLY club in the Premier league meetings to put safe standing areas forward for several years now & are met with opposition from the remaining 19 clubs, hence this will never gather any pace until the Big clubs join the debate agreeing with this stance.
it will be a slow burning process. It won't be something that will be led by a Premiership club, it will be through a lower league team moving up the leagues, or a current premiership team declining, going with standing and then returning back to the top level.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]it will be a slow burning process. It won't be something that will be led by a Premiership club, it will be through a lower league team moving up the leagues, or a current premiership team declining, going with standing and then returning back to the top level.
There will be less opposition at lower level.
Or alternatively, a team that's just played Millwall at home in the cup, had them rip out most of the seats at one end and then decides they don't want to replace them.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]singers are no good mate when there is no roof to project it.
I used to stand at The Sainsbury's end at Selhurst. I could often hear the away supporters at The Holmesdale Road end opposite. Was I just imagining it?
The Maracana in Rio has no roof.
Theatres of old had performers on stage with no roof. Everyone could hear them.
There are plenty of other examples.
Your argument has no real evidence.
A roof is better for acoustics, but AFKA is right, the Valley has been designed as an all seater stadium and would need considrable modifying to include terracing, it isn't just the case that you could just rip out the seats, put terracing back in and the atmosphere would return.
Nevertheless if done properly and stewarded safely with strict limits on how many can stand in an area then it's something I'd like to see return.
there is only one way terracing would work and improve the Valley atmosphere would be if the potential rebuild of the Jimmy Seed was a complete terrace, a la the old North Bank at West Ham / Highbury.
But that would mean rehousing away fans in the West and its not something the club, or the police would want done.
The numbers do stack up since it will help bring the passion back - but they might have to ban the beers to start with:-(
It should be up to the clubs to weigh up cutting prices but putting more people in = more shirt sales etc.
With all their focus groups the government should bite the bullet and turn it into a vote winning gimmick identifying with the ordinary bod - as long as the culture shift is managed / monitored then everyone will be able to see that it works - first sign of trouble a la Chelsea / Spurs then close the terracing at that ground
This is an interesting debate but I am yet to be convinced that.
1. a significant number of fans really want terraces back
2. Clubs with all seater stadia really want to rip out the seats. Surely if this was the case they would have pushed things harder than they obviously have. We all know Utd. fans are pron to standing wherever they go and presumably they are keen to reintroduce standing. I don't hear any rumblings from Old trafford and surely there is space there to put in even a small area of terracing to see if it works.
I am sure it could work if introduced with no real risk of problems if managed correctly and whilst part of me would enjoy standing I fear that a lot of you who are waxing nostalgic over the terraces of your youth will be dissapointed with the sanitised version you would be likely to get if they were reintroduced.
Comments
That's politicians for you!
Better let clubs build terracing that is safe then Barn.
The Taylor report said terracing wasn't the cause of the accident
No real prove of that, people being crushed in Lille in a all seater, killed at an all Seater at Ellis Park. Injury stats are hogwash.
In fact it would make it worse.
The only possible place at The Valley that could be made safe standing is the North Lower, and that has no roof or acoustics. You take those in the North Upper who sing and stick them in the Lower and gone would be the atmosphere in an instant.
Would we have 15-20k season ticket holders if they still had to piss out in the open at the back of the east terrace or queue up for the one crapper? Who knows.
The terracing here is on the lower tier, and the ground is very noisy, thanks to the fans in the lower tier
And if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction the players and away fans wont hear a thing but the people shopping in Woolwich will think we were amazing!
Of course - sounds like a good idea to me. But I'm just saying, unlikely as that seems right now - it still would be only half the battle.
There will be less opposition at lower level.
Or alternatively, a team that's just played Millwall at home in the cup, had them rip out most of the seats at one end and then decides they don't want to replace them.
I used to stand at The Sainsbury's end at Selhurst. I could often hear the away supporters at The Holmesdale Road end opposite. Was I just imagining it?
The Maracana in Rio has no roof.
Theatres of old had performers on stage with no roof. Everyone could hear them.
There are plenty of other examples.
Your argument has no real evidence.
One could argue that a roof holds the sound in.
Nevertheless if done properly and stewarded safely with strict limits on how many can stand in an area then it's something I'd like to see return.
But that would mean rehousing away fans in the West and its not something the club, or the police would want done.
It should be up to the clubs to weigh up cutting prices but putting more people in = more shirt sales etc.
With all their focus groups the government should bite the bullet and turn it into a vote winning gimmick identifying with the ordinary bod - as long as the culture shift is managed / monitored then everyone will be able to see that it works - first sign of trouble a la Chelsea / Spurs then close the terracing at that ground
1. a significant number of fans really want terraces back
2. Clubs with all seater stadia really want to rip out the seats. Surely if this was the case they would have pushed things harder than they obviously have. We all know Utd. fans are pron to standing wherever they go and presumably they are keen to reintroduce standing. I don't hear any rumblings from Old trafford and surely there is space there to put in even a small area of terracing to see if it works.
I am sure it could work if introduced with no real risk of problems if managed correctly and whilst part of me would enjoy standing I fear that a lot of you who are waxing nostalgic over the terraces of your youth will be dissapointed with the sanitised version you would be likely to get if they were reintroduced.