god whats he like?! Talk about attract Greenwich councils attention. Therein the council then penalise us... i think thats the case isnt it when they only sold a certain amount of tickets for Man U so the club upped the price and therefore created merry hell with Man U.
Maybe this could be something else for the FF to investigate?
How would lifers feel, as an example, about the lower covered end being converted to standing with clearly defined entry points to help avoid 'overcrownding'?
Alex, I mentioned exactly that possibility on another thread a few weeks back. You may remember that Peter Varney frequently mentioned in his programme notes over the years that he (presumably representing the view of the board as a whole) would be keen to introduce a safe standing area if legislation permitted. As we will most likely be plying our trade in League 1 next year, I believe that means in principle that we would be allowed to have terraced sections. We would also be allowed to retain standing areas for the for the first two years after being promoted back into the Championship even if the legislation wasn't changed in the meantime. Would love for someone with more clout than me to take this up with the board in the event that we do get relergated.
Haven't got a clue what thread it's on I'm afraid. I just suggested it as a possibility during the course of a conversation about our likely relegation. I seem to remember that AFKA Bartram thought it was a good idea but Henry Irving reckoned we wouldn't be able to get the appropriate safety licences. Personally I can't see why we wouldn't be permitted to have a standing area in a modern ground like The Valley if the likes of Bristol Rovers and Chesterfield are allowed to have it in their rusty old stadiums. Can't see it happening to be honest, but like I said, I'd love to see someone take it up with the board. Can't imagine it would cost much to take out a few seats and stick crash barriers in.
[cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]Haven't got a clue what thread it's on I'm afraid. I just suggested it as a possibility during the course of a conversation about our likely relegation. I seem to remember that AFKA Bartram thought it was a good idea but Henry Irving reckoned we wouldn't be able to get the appropriate safety licences. Personally I can't see why we wouldn't be permitted to have a standing area in a modern ground like The Valley if the likes of Bristol Rovers and Chesterfield are allowed to have it in their rusty old stadiums. Can't see it happening to be honest, but like I said, I'd love to see someone take it up with the board. Can't imagine it would cost much to take out a few seats and stick crash barriers in.
probably not, but would the cost be justified seeing as we'd need every penny to survive? If people lose their jobs because a budget had been assigned to take out seats to put in crash barriers/safe standing then i'm sure there'd be a few miffed people about.
I understand that clubs that aren't up to our standards in terms of stadiums are allowed to have it, but thats because they can't afford to put seats in and develop their ground.
Sadly the rule is help the small clubs financially by not forcing them to convert their terraces. It doesn't work the other way by allowing you to convert seating areas!
Fair point on the redundancy thing - I certainly wouldn't want to sacrifice someone's job for the sake of having some terracing. I just think that most people have now realised that standing areas that are properly maintained and policed are not a safety hazard at all and I really believe that it would only take one reasonably high profile club such as ourselves to make a point of reintroducing terracing if they were permitted to do so and it would really push the issue forward. Like I said though, certainly not at the expense of someone's livelihood.
While the Football Licensing Authority (FLA) refuse to even debate the possibility of standing areas but take no real action against clubs where standing is allowed to happen week in week out in seating areas nothing will change.
The clubs, other than Charlton, don't care as they can charge for a higher price for a seat. Ripping out seats and replacing the steps while fitting new barriers would be expensive but would give little or no increased capacity to compensate for the cost or the likely demand for cheaper standing tickets. This is because capacity is as much about the number and size of exits as it is about how many actual seats or space you have available.
The Jimmy Seed build could be changed, perhaps, to one large Standing area ala in Germany with barriers every two or three steps to stop surging and crushing with a smaller upper tier running around from the East rather than three decks of seating as in the current plan. I'm no architect but in theory it could be possible.
Away fans could be accommodated in the newly built South West Corner which is closest to the away entrance any way.
However apart from not having money it would require a change in govt policy to direct the FLA to allow radical solutions to the problem of standing in seated areas which is an accident waiting to happen.
But as I said while Charlton would be keen whenever I spoke to the FLA they refused to budge or even accept the evidence from the FSA and Germany I presented to them. The relevant minister was at one point putting pressure on the FLA to come up with solutions but it got nowhere. Don't know why.
To open any sporting venue you need a licence and this is granted by LB Greenwich. All my dealings with the compliance people at LBG were very good. They were reasonable, took a practical approach to any legislation and were happy to work with CAFC as they could see that we enforce the rules, protected the fans (stamped on feet was never raised), trained and monitored the stewards etc better than just about anyone else. BUT they would not grant the Valley a licence is the FLA said no and the FLA will say no to any suggestion of standing. They don't even like unreserved seating as they think it encourages standing.
Finally the Fans' Forum rep on the Safety Advisory Group, taking over from that Supporters' Director bloke, is some bloke with a funny foreign sounding name who most likely lives somewhere like Woolwich.
Henry, thanks very much for the detailed explanation, very interesting. Looks like I'll have to content myself with trips to Carlisle and Bristol Rovers to get my terracing fix next season then.
Morecambe are having 5,000 safe standing areas in their new 7,000 stadium, to be ready by 20010-11 (The year Mascott 88 sees us getting promoted. ;-) )
Interesting to see how Morecombe get on in terms of getting planning permission.
What is pictured is much safer than people standing in seated areas which is allowed to happen at every premier ground week in week out including the Kop at Anfield and when Liverpool are the away team.
It is more expensive than seating but the barriers stop surging and multiple falls/crushing which was always the problems with packed terraces.
What is clever is that the standing has a flap down seat so it can be, in theory, converted to seating if required. In practice this would never happen but it might keep the FLA and local authority happy.
Now when we develop the Joe South Stand................
isnt it a bit hard to see if you were sitting behind that bar?
if there was little or no conversion cost I'd be all for it as it would bring some atmostphere, and possibly more crowds who like that kind of thing.
I wonder how many people were actually hurt during surges etc, I think having a barrier every row is kind devoid of the point. The reality is the authorities didn't like terracing cos of the mob mentality it fosters, if numbers were controlled properly I'm not so sure it would be a problem
If anyone thinks thinks its a good idea to bring back standing please read last Sundays Observer magazine on actual accounts about Hillsborough. You won't want to go back to the dark ages !
Comments
http://www.bexleytimes.co.uk/content/bexley/times/default/story.aspx?brand=BMLYTOnline&category=postbag&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=zpostbagbexley&itemid=WeED14%20Mar%202007%2014%3A04%3A35%3A663
That blokes an idiot!
:-)
http://www.bexleytimes.co.uk/content/bexley/times/default/story.aspx?brand=BMLYTOnline&category=postbag&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=zpostbagbexley&itemid=WeED07%20Mar%202007%2013%3A06%3A42%3A637
Obviously there's always an exception to every rule.
Something about people standing at a street party I think.....:-)
Dunno why the bloke bothers going anymore when he finds so much to moan about all of the time.
How would lifers feel, as an example, about the lower covered end being converted to standing with clearly defined entry points to help avoid 'overcrownding'?
probably not, but would the cost be justified seeing as we'd need every penny to survive? If people lose their jobs because a budget had been assigned to take out seats to put in crash barriers/safe standing then i'm sure there'd be a few miffed people about.
I understand that clubs that aren't up to our standards in terms of stadiums are allowed to have it, but thats because they can't afford to put seats in and develop their ground.
The clubs, other than Charlton, don't care as they can charge for a higher price for a seat. Ripping out seats and replacing the steps while fitting new barriers would be expensive but would give little or no increased capacity to compensate for the cost or the likely demand for cheaper standing tickets. This is because capacity is as much about the number and size of exits as it is about how many actual seats or space you have available.
The Jimmy Seed build could be changed, perhaps, to one large Standing area ala in Germany with barriers every two or three steps to stop surging and crushing with a smaller upper tier running around from the East rather than three decks of seating as in the current plan. I'm no architect but in theory it could be possible.
Away fans could be accommodated in the newly built South West Corner which is closest to the away entrance any way.
However apart from not having money it would require a change in govt policy to direct the FLA to allow radical solutions to the problem of standing in seated areas which is an accident waiting to happen.
But as I said while Charlton would be keen whenever I spoke to the FLA they refused to budge or even accept the evidence from the FSA and Germany I presented to them. The relevant minister was at one point putting pressure on the FLA to come up with solutions but it got nowhere. Don't know why.
To open any sporting venue you need a licence and this is granted by LB Greenwich. All my dealings with the compliance people at LBG were very good. They were reasonable, took a practical approach to any legislation and were happy to work with CAFC as they could see that we enforce the rules, protected the fans (stamped on feet was never raised), trained and monitored the stewards etc better than just about anyone else. BUT they would not grant the Valley a licence is the FLA said no and the FLA will say no to any suggestion of standing. They don't even like unreserved seating as they think it encourages standing.
Finally the Fans' Forum rep on the Safety Advisory Group, taking over from that Supporters' Director bloke, is some bloke with a funny foreign sounding name who most likely lives somewhere like Woolwich.
What is pictured is much safer than people standing in seated areas which is allowed to happen at every premier ground week in week out including the Kop at Anfield and when Liverpool are the away team.
It is more expensive than seating but the barriers stop surging and multiple falls/crushing which was always the problems with packed terraces.
What is clever is that the standing has a flap down seat so it can be, in theory, converted to seating if required. In practice this would never happen but it might keep the FLA and local authority happy.
Now when we develop the Joe South Stand................
Cheers.
if there was little or no conversion cost I'd be all for it as it would bring some atmostphere, and possibly more crowds who like that kind of thing.
I wonder how many people were actually hurt during surges etc, I think having a barrier every row is kind devoid of the point. The reality is the authorities didn't like terracing cos of the mob mentality it fosters, if numbers were controlled properly I'm not so sure it would be a problem