Smalling, Carrick, Cleverley, Welbeck, Milner, Johnson and Lescott, all not good enough to be first name on their clubs teamsheet, not good enough for England either.
Problem is, none of the other "names" are the full answer either, Walker, Richards, Jagielka, Jones, Cahill, Osman, Sinclair, Bent, Carroll, Jenas, Sturridge and Shelvey, all not good enough to really command a starting XI place, so the depth of the squad is good, but the starting XI is pretty weak imo
Smalling, Carrick, Cleverley, Welbeck, Milner, Johnson and Lescott, all not good enough to be first name on their clubs teamsheet, not good enough for England either.
Problem is, none of the other "names" are the full answer either, Walker, Richards, Jagielka, Jones, Cahill, Osman, Sinclair, Bent, Carroll, Jenas, Sturridge and Shelvey, all not good enough to really command a starting XI place, so the depth of the squad is good, but the starting XI is pretty weak imo
Haven't seen the game and won't bother now but you are spot on. With the continuing influx of foreigners into the Premier League, which will continue unabated with the extra money, things will not improve.
I thought Joe Hart was head and shoulders above the others.
Shampoo jokes eh? That won a worst TV ad award!
What a dreadful second half, ancient midfield of Gerrard (who makes our very own JJ look quick) and Carrick could have been over-run by a bunch of OAPs with zimmer frames. As much as I've admired them in the past, Milner is now past his sell-by date and Cashley is not far behind.
If this is the best that England has to offer then I fear for our future as a top footballing nation. Gerrard is past his best and Carrick is just not up to the task. Only named two players there but the performance in the second half was pretty much Blue Square League level.
Is he or any of the others world class? Not IMHO but that has been the case for a long time.
Ashley Cole, Rooney on a good day and that's about it. Lots of good premiership players but very few really top notch players. Carrick FFS
We'll qualify, the media and fans will big us up as world beaters and then we'll be knocked out in the Quarters or as soon as we face a decent side like we always do.
I don't care about England, haven't for years. So speaking fairly impartially, I'd say drop all the old guys. They won't win the World Cup, so use the qualifying stage and hopefully that to mould a younger team and unit (very important) who may have the potential to go further in 4 or 6 years.
The Netherlands have been brutal with some of their older players and though they haven't won anything, they have done relatively well and are always looking forward rather than back. It also encourages competition and helps to guard against complacency. Like when they cut out Van Nistelrooy, on paper he probably should have still been in the squad but when the current team isn't good enough to win a trophy, why not look more so towards the future?
I couldn't believe what I was watching last night. Gerard is well past his best now. As for Milner, unsure why he is in the team. As I have been doing a lot of overtime hours in the last 3yrs, everytime I see Milner play I don't see what he offers. He can't tackle, can't beat players, his crossing is woeful or non existent. Rooney world class my arse. The defence are disasters wating to happen. (reminds me of another team). At the same time it was obvious within the first 5 mins of 2nd half we needed to make changes and quite righyly we got punished for it. Thought we we were lucky to get a draw in the end. However the problem with English football is a deep rooted problem
Ah Michael Carrick, the Dale Stephens of England. Wasn't Carrick only wanted as a reserve for the last Euros, and chose not to be considered, so it's interesting how he's back in favour now.
embarassing! first half in so much control & then just invite them the 2nd half, whats more dissapointing is how long it took to bring a sub on when it was clearly not working. In the 55th minute i said to my mate a 1-2 subs were needed, typical England crap really.
We will still qualify and win the group, but i dont rate Hodgson. This is not based on one game, i think the performances have been dull and a couple of wins have overshadowed the performances buildings false hope eg. Brazil & Spain. Hodgson has no plan B which is not good enough, if you had Mourinho or a top class manager they would have seen after Montenegro changed their formation and came into the game they would have been able to counter it.
Personally i would of brought on lampard on for cleverley who didn't do much. Then Wellbeck of for either the Ox if they wanted to keep the same shape or Defoe and let rooney drop deeper.
I thought Joe Hart was head and shoulders above the others.
Shampoo jokes eh? That won a worst TV ad award!
What a dreadful second half, ancient midfield of Gerrard (who makes our very own JJ look quick) and Carrick could have been over-run by a bunch of OAPs with zimmer frames. As much as I've admired them in the past, Milner is now past his sell-by date and Cashley is not far behind.
Milner's 27! Same as Bradley 'Baby Face' Pritchard. Don't think you can call him past it at that age. Whether he is actually good enough is a debatable point mind you.
Amazes me when we consistently underperform it is always the managers fault.
We have an inadequate, insular crop of players who if you get in the face and make it tough for them will wilt or make mistakes.
When the pressure was on last night Milner made a decent challenge to concede a corner.
The camera panned wider showing 7 or 8 England players in the box, all silent with their head down. No one encouraging, rallying etc.
Severe lack of characters at the top of the domestic game. They've all been coached to the nth degree, even down to mining the anthem and what to say in interviews.
The manager SHOULD have changed the midfield around quicker in the second half, but don't lose sight what he currently has at his disposal. The 96 side that never won anything was Seaman, Neville, Adams, Southgate, Pearce, McManaman, Ince, Gazza, Anderton, Sheringham, Shearer.
How many in that starting 11 last night at this point in time would get in that side ?
I thought Joe Hart was head and shoulders above the others.
Shampoo jokes eh? That won a worst TV ad award!
What a dreadful second half, ancient midfield of Gerrard (who makes our very own JJ look quick) and Carrick could have been over-run by a bunch of OAPs with zimmer frames. As much as I've admired them in the past, Milner is now past his sell-by date and Cashley is not far behind.
Phew, thought no one had noticed :-) The ad worked for me, my head no longer itches :-)
Not really read any of the thread, but I though we were as poor as I have ever seen for an hour in the middle of that game, half the passes were behind players, Hart made Bob Bolder look like the straightest kicker in the history of the game and Wellbeck needed a rocket up his arse. At one point when we were up against it Gerrard (I think) had the ball on the left hand side of our penalty area, there were two other England players next to him who just stood and watched while he hoofed it up the field - no sign of either of them making a move to give him an option. I almost never knock the national team, but there was not one player who put in a full shift last night. And Roy should have made use of the subs a lot earlier.
To be honest I think the expectations are too high. This England team are decent enough but when you compare the overall quality to other national sides we are not one of the top teams in the world and that is down to the standard of players we have. You cannot keep making the manager the scapegoat he only gets to work with the players on a very limited basis. The emphasis in this country is club then club then club and has been that way for years, mainly because of money generation factor.
First half we were OK but Roy Keane got it dead right we needed that second goal, didn't get it and paid the price. I think we will qualify and get through group stages but then struggle as always especially as no European team has ever won a World Cup in South America. It will be the same as usual We start with Over inflated expectations followed by dawning relisation of the reality folled by crushing disappointment. Nothing changes and I doubt it will in my lifetime.
I think Baines is seriously pushing Cashley for that left back place and wouldn't be surprised to see him get his nose in front by the time Brazil comes around. Cashley will lose interest and retire internationally soon after and then you've got Luke Shaw to blood into the side post 2014.
Our entire game needs a radical shake up similar to what the Germans did after Euro 2000.
Forget blaming Hodgson or whoever, the fact is we're just not good enough. No manager before him succeeded and the manager after him won't either.
This won't change for as long as the premier league continues to be money obsessed and almost every top side fields a predominantly foreign XI every saturday. Chelsea, 'our' european champions haven't had an English first team regular come through their youth team since John Terry. He made his debut in 1998!!
The 96 side that never won anything was Seaman, Neville, Adams, Southgate, Pearce, McManaman, Ince, Gazza, Anderton, Sheringham, Shearer.
How many in that starting 11 last night at this point in time would get in that side ?
I'd ditch Anderton in a heartbeat but not sure who in the current squad I'd replace him with. How the hell he ever got an England cap is quite mystifying. And Ince annoyed the crap out of me with his attempt to become invisible when a player was needed to take the penalty that Southgate stepped up for. If you want to call yourself THE GOVERNOR then you damn well better be demanding to take a penalty, not pretending to be absorbed in a study of the grass in the centre circle. I'd take Gerrard over him any day.
Other than that, I'd take the whole of the 96 team over the whole of the 13 team.
Agree mostly with Rizzo but do you think Sheringham was really a better player than Rooney? Not sure myself but it is close I have to admit. Never thought McManaman did much in an England shirt either so would be happy to see Chamberlin or Wlacott instead of him.
I see the Sheringham comparrison more with Cleverly from last night rather than Rooney. That would have been with Shearer in being the main line-leading striker
Comments
Too slow at times 2nd half and lacked leadership.
Problem is, none of the other "names" are the full answer either, Walker, Richards, Jagielka, Jones, Cahill, Osman, Sinclair, Bent, Carroll, Jenas, Sturridge and Shelvey, all not good enough to really command a starting XI place, so the depth of the squad is good, but the starting XI is pretty weak imo
What a dreadful second half, ancient midfield of Gerrard (who makes our very own JJ look quick) and Carrick could have been over-run by a bunch of OAPs with zimmer frames. As much as I've admired them in the past, Milner is now past his sell-by date and Cashley is not far behind.
Is he or any of the others world class? Not IMHO but that has been the case for a long time.
Ashley Cole, Rooney on a good day and that's about it. Lots of good premiership players but very few really top notch players. Carrick FFS
We'll qualify, the media and fans will big us up as world beaters and then we'll be knocked out in the Quarters or as soon as we face a decent side like we always do.
The Netherlands have been brutal with some of their older players and though they haven't won anything, they have done relatively well and are always looking forward rather than back. It also encourages competition and helps to guard against complacency. Like when they cut out Van Nistelrooy, on paper he probably should have still been in the squad but when the current team isn't good enough to win a trophy, why not look more so towards the future?
We will still qualify and win the group, but i dont rate Hodgson. This is not based on one game, i think the performances have been dull and a couple of wins have overshadowed the performances buildings false hope eg. Brazil & Spain. Hodgson has no plan B which is not good enough, if you had Mourinho or a top class manager they would have seen after Montenegro changed their formation and came into the game they would have been able to counter it.
Personally i would of brought on lampard on for cleverley who didn't do much. Then Wellbeck of for either the Ox if they wanted to keep the same shape or Defoe and let rooney drop deeper.
Can say he has all the coaching badges and we have hindsight, but following England and Charlton i seem to notice it far too much.
We have an inadequate, insular crop of players who if you get in the face and make it tough for them will wilt or make mistakes.
When the pressure was on last night Milner made a decent challenge to concede a corner.
The camera panned wider showing 7 or 8 England players in the box, all silent with their head down. No one encouraging, rallying etc.
Severe lack of characters at the top of the domestic game. They've all been coached to the nth degree, even down to mining the anthem and what to say in interviews.
The manager SHOULD have changed the midfield around quicker in the second half, but don't lose sight what he currently has at his disposal. The 96 side that never won anything was Seaman, Neville, Adams, Southgate, Pearce, McManaman, Ince, Gazza, Anderton, Sheringham, Shearer.
How many in that starting 11 last night at this point in time would get in that side ?
I'd rather have a 96 Pearce for a tough and intimidating away game than a 13 Cole. I think he has been pretty average this season.
Same goes for a 13 Gerrard against a 96 Ince.
Shearer / Rooney is debateable.
Despite the slagging he gets, is probably prefer Milner over one of the 96 widemen for that game last night
Rooney everyday over Sheringham.
First half we were OK but Roy Keane got it dead right we needed that second goal, didn't get it and paid the price. I think we will qualify and get through group stages but then struggle as always especially as no European team has ever won a World Cup in South America. It will be the same as usual We start with Over inflated expectations followed by dawning relisation of the reality folled by crushing disappointment. Nothing changes and I doubt it will in my lifetime.
Ince ahead of Gerrard too for me.
But it proves AFKAs point of how at best there are only three players from now who would get into what was an unsuccessful side.
Maybe when this new Premier League starts we will see the benefits to the England side........
I looked into my crystal ball this morning.
Forget blaming Hodgson or whoever, the fact is we're just not good enough. No manager before him succeeded and the manager after him won't either.
This won't change for as long as the premier league continues to be money obsessed and almost every top side fields a predominantly foreign XI every saturday. Chelsea, 'our' european champions haven't had an English first team regular come through their youth team since John Terry. He made his debut in 1998!!
Other than that, I'd take the whole of the 96 team over the whole of the 13 team.