North Korea

queensland_addick

I am amazed that you think the President of one of the most powerful countries on the planet that said "who thought healthcare would be so complicated?" can be trusted with the nuclear codes. He contradicts himself the majority of the time. Trump said, since the 6 months he has been in office, he has strengthened Americas nuclear arsenal and yet you can check this for yourself and find out it is not true. And then he comes out and says he wants to "de-nuke" other countries. Can you not see these are the thoughts of a not very reasonably thinking man? Thankfully there are some sensible and mature people around him like Mattis to diffuse Trumps sensationalist remarks. Not sure what any of the other talking points have got to do with the North Korea situation either but, as @SDAddick has pointed out, most of them can be fact checked and discredited. You make him sound like the saviour of the world yet he is just another power hungry wannabe dictator who can't even be bothered to put in the time or work to fulfill that role.

Thanks for your polite response. The point you make about surrounding himself with sensible people is something I was saying soon after he was elected. He has a history of surrounding himself with competent people in his business empire. As we have seen recently, he is not afraid to make changes when required. I think Mattis, Tillerson and Gen Kelly for example are excellent appointments.
There is no doubt that Trump is a flawed character, economical with the truth at times and prone to exaggerate. That is not uncommon with many highly successful people, especially politicians.
Narcissism seems to be almost a prerequisite to political leadership these days , wherever you look.
I have always seen him more as a figurehead than a master politician who was all over the intricate details of every policy detail. He prefers to deligate to people with greater knowledge and expertise, which is why he was so angry with Republican legislators who failed, after 7 years to find a better solution than the failing Affordable Care Act. I don't think it's necessary for any President to be 100% over all the facts, that's why they surround themselves with experts and advisors.
As for your point about fact checking, I think that is entirely dependent on your source for obtaining the facts. News media has now become so partisan, so dishonest, that it is almost impossible to know what is fake news and what is the truth. Watching CNN or Fox will provide two completely different views on the same subject, for example. The problem for Trump is that 90% of the media despise him and will do anything to bring him down, including making up stories and deliberately suppressing any good news that might show him in a good light.
What is becoming more evident to me is that he was completely correct when he said we need to drain the swamp. There is no doubt that the deep state are working against him, former Obama employees scheming and leaking. Republicans who are terrified of him upsetting the Washington status quo, so used are they to having their noses in the trough, also working behind the scenes to bring him down.
I do take issue with your point about him not putting in the time or effort. The bloke never sleeps! He's a workaholic, always has been. He's 71, he didn't need the power, he didn't need the money, and I don't think he needs all the hatred directed at him and his family. He's someone who thought his country was going down the wrong path and he has taken it upon himself to try to improve the lives of Americans, nothing more, nothing less. He loves America and he loves the American people. He is attempting to improve healthcare, create jobs, keep Americans safe and improve their prosperity. Yet one would think from many of the posts on CL and from most media articles, that he is the devil reincarnated.
Trump or Kim Jong Ill? I find it highly offensive that they should even be compared.

Stig

smudge7946 said:

My money is on the yanks to win.

My money in on there being no winners. The best that anyone can hope for is to maintain the status quo. The worst doesn't bear thinking about.

ShootersHillGuru

Well as Stig says there is no winner in this should conflict arise but it will be the USA that prevails. I don't see any other of the regions big players getting sucked in.

I'm completely confident that what's going on behind the scenes will work out.

Stu_of_Kunming

I agree wit the first part of that, but not the second, diplomacy will win the day, but it won't be down to the US, China will get some concessions from the yanks in order to get their bud Kim to calm the F down. In exchange NK will continue to receive food over the border and maybe a little more.

1StevieG

@queensland_addick you will find most news organisations, as I have found, do talk about the positives of what Trump is trying to do but the negatives outweigh these because of things like his diversionary tweets. It's not all bad news about Trump and we all see the news channels broadcast his events even though he will tell a crowd at a re-election campaign that the cameras won't broadcast it and make up their own story. In no way am I comparing him to Kim Jong Un, I am saying if he was given the chance he would love to remove his critics and he has openly said he would put laws in place that would have a negative effect on anyone that would want to criticize him. That is an abuse of power that demeans his Presidency even more and that's where it starts to get worrying.

Callumcafc

queensland_addick said:

I think it's more about self preservation for Kim, having seen what happened to Saddam & Gaddafi in countries that were prevented from acquiring nuclear weapons. The pertinent question should be, how the hell was he allowed to get to this point? The answer of course is, he has managed to do so, as a result of piss weak leadership in the West.
President Trump is now in the unenviable position of trying to deal with this problem largely created by the inaction of previous administrations. Same with ISIS, another war that we are finally starting to win, thanks to his tough leadership.
Ironic really that the usual suspects try to pin the blame on President Trump when he is finally taking the tough stance that should have been adopted years ago. Prevention is always better than cure!
Yours sincerely, the only President Trump supporter on CL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-v1TTUyhM

queensland_addick

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2hGlrV6qsbo

JiMMy 85

I find it fascinating to read a coherent statement from someone that supports Trump.

SDAddick

queensland_addick said:

Thanks for your polite response. The point you make about surrounding himself with sensible people is something I was saying soon after he was elected. He has a history of surrounding himself with competent people in his business empire. As we have seen recently, he is not afraid to make changes when required. I think Mattis, Tillerson and Gen Kelly for example are excellent appointments.
There is no doubt that Trump is a flawed character, economical with the truth at times and prone to exaggerate. That is not uncommon with many highly successful people, especially politicians.
Narcissism seems to be almost a prerequisite to political leadership these days , wherever you look.
I have always seen him more as a figurehead than a master politician who was all over the intricate details of every policy detail. He prefers to deligate to people with greater knowledge and expertise, which is why he was so angry with Republican legislators who failed, after 7 years to find a better solution than the failing Affordable Care Act. I don't think it's necessary for any President to be 100% over all the facts, that's why they surround themselves with experts and advisors.
As for your point about fact checking, I think that is entirely dependent on your source for obtaining the facts. News media has now become so partisan, so dishonest, that it is almost impossible to know what is fake news and what is the truth. Watching CNN or Fox will provide two completely different views on the same subject, for example. The problem for Trump is that 90% of the media despise him and will do anything to bring him down, including making up stories and deliberately suppressing any good news that might show him in a good light.
What is becoming more evident to me is that he was completely correct when he said we need to drain the swamp. There is no doubt that the deep state are working against him, former Obama employees scheming and leaking. Republicans who are terrified of him upsetting the Washington status quo, so used are they to having their noses in the trough, also working behind the scenes to bring him down.
I do take issue with your point about him not putting in the time or effort. The bloke never sleeps! He's a workaholic, always has been. He's 71, he didn't need the power, he didn't need the money, and I don't think he needs all the hatred directed at him and his family. He's someone who thought his country was going down the wrong path and he has taken it upon himself to try to improve the lives of Americans, nothing more, nothing less. He loves America and he loves the American people. He is attempting to improve healthcare, create jobs, keep Americans safe and improve their prosperity. Yet one would think from many of the posts on CL and from most media articles, that he is the devil reincarnated.
Trump or Kim Jong Ill? I find it highly offensive that they should even be compared.

Again, you just regurgitate his talking points. You're boring.

JiMMy 85

Queensland - could you just explain this one quote for me?

"He is attempting to improve healthcare"

Super_Eddie_Youds

JiMMy 85 said:

I find it fascinating to read a coherent statement from someone that supports Trump.

Where's that then?

Stu_of_Kunming

JiMMy 85 said:

Queensland - could you just explain this one quote for me?

"He is attempting to improve healthcare"

He was pretty open about wanting to dismantle Obama Care before the election, I imagine a lot of (weird) people voted for that, so for them, it would be improving health care.

SDAddick

Stu_of_Kunming said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Queensland - could you just explain this one quote for me?

"He is attempting to improve healthcare"

He was pretty open about wanting to dismantle Obama Care before the election, I imagine a lot of (weird) people voted for that, so for them, it would be improving health care.

Actually dismantling the Affordable Care Act would disproportionately hurt Trump voters.

http://www.newsweek.com/how-much-will-trumpcare-hurt-trump-voters-lot-571776

bazjonster

ShootersHillGuru said:

Well as Stig says there is no winner in this should conflict arise but it will be the USA that prevails. I don't see any other of the regions big players getting sucked in.

I'm completely confident that what's going on behind the scenes will work out.

Dennis Rodman on the case apparently. Job's a good un!!

1StevieG

bazjonster said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Well as Stig says there is no winner in this should conflict arise but it will be the USA that prevails. I don't see any other of the regions big players getting sucked in.

I'm completely confident that what's going on behind the scenes will work out.

Dennis Rodman on the case apparently. Job's a good un!!

He lives in Los Angeles so I am guessing he doesn't want it turned into a nuclear wasteland by one of KJU's missiles.

Callumcafc

SDAddick said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Queensland - could you just explain this one quote for me?

"He is attempting to improve healthcare"

He was pretty open about wanting to dismantle Obama Care before the election, I imagine a lot of (weird) people voted for that, so for them, it would be improving health care.

Actually dismantling the Affordable Care Act would disproportionately hurt Trump voters.

http://www.newsweek.com/how-much-will-trumpcare-hurt-trump-voters-lot-571776

Trying not to hijack the thread but have to share this...

Stu_of_Kunming

SDAddick said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Queensland - could you just explain this one quote for me?

"He is attempting to improve healthcare"

He was pretty open about wanting to dismantle Obama Care before the election, I imagine a lot of (weird) people voted for that, so for them, it would be improving health care.

Actually dismantling the Affordable Care Act would disproportionately hurt Trump voters.

http://www.newsweek.com/how-much-will-trumpcare-hurt-trump-voters-lot-571776

I think Trump will disproportionately hurt Trump voters, but that didn't stop the nutjobs!

SomervilleAddick

JiMMy 85 said:

I find it fascinating to read a coherent statement from someone that supports Trump.

Me too, I just haven't seen one yet.

Uboat

.

limeygent

SomervilleAddick said:

JiMMy 85 said:

I find it fascinating to read a coherent statement from someone that supports Trump.

Me too, I just haven't seen one yet.

Here's one. Obamacare, a.k.a. The Affordable Care Act, is dismantling itself. As predicted, by the way.

SDAddick

limeygent said:

SomervilleAddick said:

JiMMy 85 said:

I find it fascinating to read a coherent statement from someone that supports Trump.

Me too, I just haven't seen one yet.

Here's one. Obamacare, a.k.a. The Affordable Care Act, is dismantling itself. As predicted, by the way.

No, it's not.

You don't have to trust me of course, you can look at the Trump Administration's own data:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-trump-administrations-own-data-says-obamacare-isnt-imploding/

limeygent

Stu_of_Kunming said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Queensland - could you just explain this one quote for me?

"He is attempting to improve healthcare"

He was pretty open about wanting to dismantle Obama Care before the election, I imagine a lot of (weird) people voted for that, so for them, it would be improving health care.

The people were not weird, Obamacare is imploding, as everyone with any brains knew it would. It's been nothing more than an extra tax, and with very little benefit, for most people.

SDAddick

limeygent said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Queensland - could you just explain this one quote for me?

"He is attempting to improve healthcare"

He was pretty open about wanting to dismantle Obama Care before the election, I imagine a lot of (weird) people voted for that, so for them, it would be improving health care.

The people were not weird, Obamacare is imploding, as everyone with any brains knew it would. It's been nothing more than an extra tax, and with very little benefit, for most people.

Except for the 20 million people who got insurance because of it

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/health/obamacare-health-insurance-numbers-nchs.html

limeygent

SDAddick said:

limeygent said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Queensland - could you just explain this one quote for me?

"He is attempting to improve healthcare"

He was pretty open about wanting to dismantle Obama Care before the election, I imagine a lot of (weird) people voted for that, so for them, it would be improving health care.

The people were not weird, Obamacare is imploding, as everyone with any brains knew it would. It's been nothing more than an extra tax, and with very little benefit, for most people.

Except for the 20 million people who got insurance because of it

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/health/obamacare-health-insurance-numbers-nchs.html

Many felt forced to, and you know it. And many had had insurance before the Act, but Obamacare pushed premiums so high their employers could no longer afford to provide insurance as part of their remuneration, so people had to get Obamacare to avoid the fines. Once they had Obamacare the premiums and deductibles went so high that nobody could afford to get sick anyway.

cafcnick1992

queensland_addick said:

Trump or Kim Jong Ill? I find it highly offensive that they should even be compared.

I heard LBC posed this question the other day and people were calling in to say they're equally as bad.

It's the most stupid question ever posed. a tenth of the North Korean population are in labour camps, stabbing rats and cooking them over a camp fire ffs.

SDAddick

limeygent said:

SDAddick said:

limeygent said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Queensland - could you just explain this one quote for me?

"He is attempting to improve healthcare"

He was pretty open about wanting to dismantle Obama Care before the election, I imagine a lot of (weird) people voted for that, so for them, it would be improving health care.

The people were not weird, Obamacare is imploding, as everyone with any brains knew it would. It's been nothing more than an extra tax, and with very little benefit, for most people.

Except for the 20 million people who got insurance because of it

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/health/obamacare-health-insurance-numbers-nchs.html

Many felt forced to, and you know it.

11 million+ alone were due to Medicaid expansion. I'll look for numbers on how many people got insurance because their employer was forced to provide them with insurance, or like my current situation, they are an independent contractor with a pre-existing condition who would not have had access to insurance before the marketplace.

http://www.kff.org/health-reform/state-indicator/medicaid-expansion-enrollment/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

Let me be clear, I think the mandate is silly. I think ObamaCare is done incorrectly because it expands the private, for insurance market. I feel this so strongly that I did not vote for Barack Obama for re-election in 2012 because of how the Democratic vision of healthcare manifested (didn't vote for President, was living in California so it didn't really matter). The ACA was of course originally RomneyCare, and parts of it came out of the Heritage Foundation-the ultra conservative think tank.

But to say it did nothing good or that it is imploding on its own is untrue.

Now, the Trump Administration can blow it up if they stop paying the CSRs.

limeygent

Back to North Korea, (sort of) it wouldn't matter how Trump reacted to the threats, (or anything else for that matter) there will be no acknowledgement on this forum that he did the right thing or that there wasn't some ulterior motive in his doing it.

limeygent

And SD, Obamacare is imploding. There's a news story nearly every day about another insurer pulling the plug.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/19/this-map-shows-how-many-insurers-are-pulling-out-of-obamacare/

Callumcafc

Obamacare is on its knees because of the GOP. The ACA as originally proposed would be thriving if the Republicans hadn't demanded x y and z concessions from Obama's Dems. At least that's what I'm led to believe.

1StevieG

According to Noam Chomsky on Democracy Now a deal was brought to the table twice by North Korea and China to halt NK's armemant program in turn for the US to stop their training excercises in the area which was turned down in 2015 and 2017.