asked my stepdad last night whether he had ever been asked to join, his dad used to be in it but mum turned round was like everyone i know who is freemason are tossers lol and she's not one to shoot down people often or swear ever...
The place in Belgium, the Bollywood film, part of a boat or the Flight of The Conchords song? Or perhaps your lodge is getting excited about its forcoming beano:
The place in Belgium, the Bollywood film, part of a boat or the Flight of The Conchords song? Or perhaps your lodge is getting excited about its forcoming beano:
Have enjoyed the thread. However, even though my love of Masonry has fallen away in recent years I am astounded that in this day and age there are still people who think there is something sinister about a group of people who meet and try to abide by a moral code of living as well as raise a lot of money for good causes, many of these good causes are non Masonic. There are no secrets and no priveleges, masonry is symbolic and innocent. Most who join stay a member for their entire life. Those who leave normally do so through disappointment that they themselves have no material gain from membership. However, some, like Jim Davidson, leave because they have done something the craft finds to be unacceptable.
I have tried my best in the face of some ridiculous comments to explain some facts. Of course, that is never good enough for some. The current master of my Lodge is a driving instructor from Mottingham. Rest easy boys, he has no plans for global domination.
Freemasonry is not a religion, but there are many Freemasons who see it as a substitute as they themselves do not believe in God. Of course having can lead a moral life and expect no reward for that morality.
again i refer you to Nigel Brown, general secretary of The United Grand Lodge of England in article on BBC WEBSITE from march 2012
The prime qualification for admission into Freemasonry is a belief in a supreme being. Having some form of religious belief is the one thing that all Freemasons have in common, whatever their backgrounds might be.
Yep, and? We all have our own religions and our own beliefs. Mine doesn't happen to include a 2000 year old fairytale where an Arab who looked like Robert Powell got himself nailed up on a cross. My own religion is the belief that you can lead a moral life and expect no reward for that morality. Freemasonry is not a religion, but there are many Freemaons who see it as a substitute as they themselves do not believe in God. Of course having to say you believe in a Supreme Being is a stumbling block for some, but when the ambiguity of that question is realised, the answer can be yes ( with tongue in cheek ).
Have enjoyed the thread. However, even though my love of Masonry has fallen away in recent years I am astounded that in this day and age there are still people who think there is something sinister about a group of people who meet and try to abide by a moral code of living as well as raise a lot of money for good causes, many of these good causes are non Masonic. There are no secrets and no priveleges, masonry is symbolic and innocent. Most who join stay a member for their entire life. Those who leave normally do so through disappointment that they themselves have no material gain from membership. However, some, like Jim Davidson, leave because they have done something the craft finds to be unacceptable.
I have tried my best in the face of some ridiculous comments to explain some facts. Of course, that is never good enough for some. The current master of my Lodge is a driving instructor from Mottingham. Rest easy boys, he has no plans for global domination.
I am sure that for the common or garden lodge and for the vast majority of masons all of that is true. What I find hard to understand is why so many judges, politicians, high ranking officials and here's the rub Royalty find the need to find the camaraderie provided by the Masonic lodge. Most of these people wouldn't piss on us if we were on fire. They don't do anything for no reason and I cannot believe they are members solely for the charitable aspects or for a boys pissup.
I am sure that for the common or garden lodge and for the vast majority of masons all of that is true. What I find hard to understand is why so many judges, politicians, high ranking officials and here's the rub Royalty
I am sure that for the common or garden lodge and for the vast majority of masons all of that is true. What I find hard to understand is why so many judges, politicians, high ranking officials and here's the rub Royalty
Which royalty, exactly? and why does it matter?
Duke of Kent is the Grand Master of the Masons ( I think that's his title) the duke of Edinburgh and practically every King since Queen Victoria.
In itself there's nothing wrong but you have to ask yourself why ? Purely patronage ? Don't buy it. Too many been involved. I'm not suggesting they help rule the world but I think that the Masons have influence at the top echelons of society that go beyond what happens at the high street lodge of Maiscat. Check out the Freemasons in the USA. It's interesting.
Have enjoyed the thread. However, even though my love of Masonry has fallen away in recent years I am astounded that in this day and age there are still people who think there is something sinister about a group of people who meet and try to abide by a moral code of living as well as raise a lot of money for good causes, many of these good causes are non Masonic. There are no secrets and no priveleges, masonry is symbolic and innocent. Most who join stay a member for their entire life. Those who leave normally do so through disappointment that they themselves have no material gain from membership. However, some, like Jim Davidson, leave because they have done something the craft finds to be unacceptable.
I have tried my best in the face of some ridiculous comments to explain some facts. Of course, that is never good enough for some. The current master of my Lodge is a driving instructor from Mottingham. Rest easy boys, he has no plans for global domination.
You know what, that's fair enough. But the very link you posted mentioned the "mysteries and privileges of Freemasonary". So, which is it?
And what exactly is "the craft"? Your words. All sounds a bit dungeons and dragons to me.
If you say stuff like that is it any wonder people get the wrong end of the stick?
Craft refers to a trade and that again in Freemasonry is symbolic and refers to the Craft of Masonry , like the craft of carpentry or bricklaying etc. The mysteries and priveledges are referred to in Freemasonry as the ancient mysteries and priveleges. However, Freemasonry began in the 18th century always meeting in pubs in London, so reference to ancient mysteries and priveleges is symbolic. A lot of Freemasons actually believe that reference to King Solomon etc is actually part of Freemasonry. I am afraid they are ignorant. In historical terms Freemasonry is modern day and not ancient.
As regards Royalty, my understanding is that they became Freemasons when Freemasonry was considered an institution for gentlemen. These days I think they are just supporting what they see as a charitable organisation as they do other charities.
Of course, it could be more sinister. However, I attended a meeting where the Duke of Kent was present and it was a great experience. A lot of Freemasons would object to it being called amateur dramatics, but that is what it is to me. To others it is sometimes something different.
Have said previously, you want an answer, google it. These days Freemasonry is open to view by all. Personally, I don't know why.
Have enjoyed the thread. However, even though my love of Masonry has fallen away in recent years I am astounded that in this day and age there are still people who think there is something sinister about a group of people who meet and try to abide by a moral code of living as well as raise a lot of money for good causes, many of these good causes are non Masonic. There are no secrets and no priveleges, masonry is symbolic and innocent. Most who join stay a member for their entire life. Those who leave normally do so through disappointment that they themselves have no material gain from membership. However, some, like Jim Davidson, leave because they have done something the craft finds to be unacceptable.
I have tried my best in the face of some ridiculous comments to explain some facts. Of course, that is never good enough for some. The current master of my Lodge is a driving instructor from Mottingham. Rest easy boys, he has no plans for global domination.
Tbh i dont think their is anything sinister or important/hidden, couldn't really care just saying that of my mum's opinion that they were arrogant and stuck up. It's also coming from someone who has always accepted everyone and is probably one of the nicest women in the world...
Take that as a pinch of salt as it's only a small sample of people, around 5 isn't really enough to put everyone in the same bracket.
As no one has answered my question, I looked it up and apart from a few breakaway organisations the Lodges coming under the auspices of the United Grand Lodge of England, that is, almost all of them, still don't and probably never will accept women into their society. So, comments above such as "anyone can join" and it's "about a group of people who meet", are clearly wide of the mark as around 50% of the popluation are barred simply by being the wrong sex! Setting aside any other consideration, I can see no reason why anybody of either sex would want to belong to such a misogynistic organisation.
As a mason myself, I thought I'd put my two penneth in.
Off_it - As you keep asking, I thought I'd take the opportunity to answer insofar as I can. The "mysteries and privileges" referred to are really nothing to get excited about. The mysteries refer purely to the parts of our ceremonies, certain words used therein, allegorical meanings and the teachings of the various degrees in masonry. The privileges refer to the ability of a mason to learn those mysteries as he progresses through the various stages of masonry. These "secrets" are clearly what sets us apart from non masons and is obviously what causes such distrust among those who are not members, but I can assure you that there is nothing sinister or untoward in any of our actions as a faternity. Quite the opposite in fact, we are dedicated to charitable works and being good members of society. Of course, plenty of non masons (in fact the majority of people in our society, I suspect) exercise those very same characteristics, it's just that we have decided to join a club which extols them as virtues. The "craft" referred to is purely another name for masonry, almost certainly inherited from the time when stonemasons lodges were in place, and people who practices the same "craft" would meet as a society.
Very much like Masicat, I have been a mason for a number of years, and like him I am an atheist. Unlike Masicat, I sometimes question whether my atheism should preclude me from being a member of a society which requests its members to believe in a supreme being, particularly as that society is based also on brotherly love, relief and truth. However, i reconcile that with the fact that what I really believe masonry to be is a group of people who share the same principles as myself and any speak of religion in itself is of no consequence whatsoever.
I think that the point about royalty, the judiciary and police being members of lodges, and that leading to suspicion is well made and is understandable, but as in other areas of life, we are moving towards a somewhat more transparent society and membership of organisations such as ours, if not being discouraged, is at least being disclosed more and more.
There is an oft cited view that masons only help other masons! Not true! Apart from all of the charitable work we do and donations we make, people are discouraged from joining purely for peciniary gain and this is explained quite clearly to anyone expressing an interest. Of course as we operate a particular social circle, it is inevitable that one mason may be able to help another because he can provide a skill or service, and maybe that can be provided at "mates rates", but is this any different from the same happening at a golf club, rotary club, working mans club, pub or knitting circle? I don't think so. I'm sure that there have been times when the membership of a lodge has been abused in some way, but in general, this would be frowned upon and if discovered, the members involved might be expelled. Once again, I can't see this as any different to other societies, clubs, social circles. As for members of the upper etchelons of society using the membership of a lodge to plot and scheme for whatever reason, I can't say it doesn't happen, but would like to believe that those people have joined for the same reason I did.
Anyway, I hope I've been able to explain a little more. If anyone wants more information, please feel free to PM me.
These days Freemasonry is open to view by all. Personally, I don't know why.
So you would rather keep it secret? If so why?
Don't think secret is the word. I think justification is the word I'm looking for. As said, my love of Freemasonry has wained in recent years, but I respect the right of anyone to join a club or organisation and not keep having to explain everything to everyone else. It amazes me that people go to church and pray to a god. However, I respect their right to do so even though to some of us it is so obviously a fairytale.
Comments
I do love a conspiracy theory.
Edited.
asked my stepdad last night whether he had ever been asked to join, his dad used to be in it but mum turned round was like everyone i know who is freemason are tossers lol and she's not one to shoot down people often or swear ever...
wrongtellsI have tried my best in the face of some ridiculous comments to explain some facts. Of course, that is never good enough for some. The current master of my Lodge is a driving instructor from Mottingham. Rest easy boys, he has no plans for global domination.
and why does it matter?
In itself there's nothing wrong but you have to ask yourself why ? Purely patronage ? Don't buy it. Too many been involved. I'm not suggesting they help rule the world but I think that the Masons have influence at the top echelons of society that go beyond what happens at the high street lodge of Maiscat. Check out the Freemasons in the USA. It's interesting.
And what exactly is "the craft"? Your words. All sounds a bit dungeons and dragons to me.
If you say stuff like that is it any wonder people get the wrong end of the stick?
Of course, it could be more sinister. However, I attended a meeting where the Duke of Kent was present and it was a great experience. A lot of Freemasons would object to it being called amateur dramatics, but that is what it is to me. To others it is sometimes something different.
Have said previously, you want an answer, google it. These days Freemasonry is open to view by all. Personally, I don't know why.
Take that as a pinch of salt as it's only a small sample of people, around 5 isn't really enough to put everyone in the same bracket.
So, comments above such as "anyone can join" and it's "about a group of people who meet", are clearly wide of the mark as around 50% of the popluation are barred simply by being the wrong sex!
Setting aside any other consideration, I can see no reason why anybody of either sex would want to belong to such a misogynistic organisation.
Off_it - As you keep asking, I thought I'd take the opportunity to answer insofar as I can. The "mysteries and privileges" referred to are really nothing to get excited about. The mysteries refer purely to the parts of our ceremonies, certain words used therein, allegorical meanings and the teachings of the various degrees in masonry. The privileges refer to the ability of a mason to learn those mysteries as he progresses through the various stages of masonry. These "secrets" are clearly what sets us apart from non masons and is obviously what causes such distrust among those who are not members, but I can assure you that there is nothing sinister or untoward in any of our actions as a faternity. Quite the opposite in fact, we are dedicated to charitable works and being good members of society. Of course, plenty of non masons (in fact the majority of people in our society, I suspect) exercise those very same characteristics, it's just that we have decided to join a club which extols them as virtues.
The "craft" referred to is purely another name for masonry, almost certainly inherited from the time when stonemasons lodges were in place, and people who practices the same "craft" would meet as a society.
Very much like Masicat, I have been a mason for a number of years, and like him I am an atheist. Unlike Masicat, I sometimes question whether my atheism should preclude me from being a member of a society which requests its members to believe in a supreme being, particularly as that society is based also on brotherly love, relief and truth.
However, i reconcile that with the fact that what I really believe masonry to be is a group of people who share the same principles as myself and any speak of religion in itself is of no consequence whatsoever.
I think that the point about royalty, the judiciary and police being members of lodges, and that leading to suspicion is well made and is understandable, but as in other areas of life, we are moving towards a somewhat more transparent society and membership of organisations such as ours, if not being discouraged, is at least being disclosed more and more.
There is an oft cited view that masons only help other masons! Not true! Apart from all of the charitable work we do and donations we make, people are discouraged from joining purely for peciniary gain and this is explained quite clearly to anyone expressing an interest. Of course as we operate a particular social circle, it is inevitable that one mason may be able to help another because he can provide a skill or service, and maybe that can be provided at "mates rates", but is this any different from the same happening at a golf club, rotary club, working mans club, pub or knitting circle? I don't think so. I'm sure that there have been times when the membership of a lodge has been abused in some way, but in general, this would be frowned upon and if discovered, the members involved might be expelled. Once again, I can't see this as any different to other societies, clubs, social circles. As for members of the upper etchelons of society using the membership of a lodge to plot and scheme for whatever reason, I can't say it doesn't happen, but would like to believe that those people have joined for the same reason I did.
Anyway, I hope I've been able to explain a little more. If anyone wants more information, please feel free to PM me.