2) Australian studies have shown helmets only effective for small children just falling off. Most crashes no other vehicle tend to be facial. Hit a car, helmet is no help.
I'm not quite sure what that means? I've never had a facial crash, and would have thought it exceptionally rare unless hitting road furniture/walls or a car. Hitting a car around 20 mph, a helmet is clearly going to help, whilst most injuries are from hitting the road those wearing helmets in car collisions have fewer head injuries.
Look I occasionally go out without a helmet. I used to ride always without a helmet. I've had crashes at over 45-50 kmh an hour with no head injury. When pro cyclists didn't wear helmets there was no observed statistical difference in head injuries, or indeed fatalities. It is no comparison to the statistical analysis, that Robert Mcnamara and Ford did to prove that wearing a seat belt significantly saved lives. I usually wear a helmet because of the rare occasion I've come off off road, and waited for a tree to fly past my head, I realised the difference a helmet would make. Enforcement? I'm not sure but if statistically Australia proves it's necessity then so be it.
As for cycle paths I rarely use them ME14 if they're on a road, for many reasons:
Poorly designed, rarely do they extend or make any sense longer than a few hundred yards. Constant crossing of roads to either side. They stop at every junction, meaning I have to stop and wait for any cars coming across me or past me. Whereas on a road I only need to stop for lights, or from a minor to major. They're often not kept up. They often undulate dangerously for extended drives. They often have cars or builders parked on them. Irrational disappearing bike lanes. Pedestrians block them: Fine anything slower moving should be respected and observed.
So next time you drive past a cycle lane have some empathy, look at what some moron did in the council narrowing the road wasting everyone's money and producing an idiotic and lethal bike lane. If it's difficult to get by, you're probably going through an area where you're average speed is ancient.
One thing that absolutely, completely, irrefutably pisses me off is cyclists taking folding bikes on trains and NOT folding them. I lost my rag last week when I got on at Victoria and two of the pricks had taken up the two cycle spaces provided, and got the arsehole with me when I told them to FOLD their FOLDING bikes.
If a speeding bike hits a child whilst going over the speed limit of the road and god forbid hurt or even worse killed the child what would the person face other than a lifetime of guilt and regret
Serious question not a sarcy post I am interested and has it ever happend
If a speeding bike hits a child whilst going over the speed limit of the road and god forbid hurt or even worse killed the child what would the person face other than a lifetime of guilt and regret
Serious question not a sarcy post I am interested and has it ever happend
A guy in the USA has been charged with manslaughter for this very offense.
My road tax not only pays for the roads but also shores up the NHS. You want to cycle on my roads, then pay some tax, get insured, stop at lights and keep off the pavement.
My road tax not only pays for the roads but also shores up the NHS. You want to cycle on my roads, then pay some tax, get insured, stop at lights and keep off the pavement.
Rant over.
@maybe_baby Well road tax hasn't existed since 1937 so I have no idea what you're on about.
Upkeep of roads comes from general taxation. The tax on your car is about vehicle emissions and as the "engine" on a bicycle is under the limit for this tax it isn't charged for.
I don't know how many children are killed by bicycles but I would hazard a guess that motor vehicles are a much more serious risk and that any death on the road would be prosecuted if appropriate. In a cyclists case presumably as manslaughter if there was a provable case.
For what its worth, any motor stopping in the cycle box at the traffic light will receive a £60 fine and 3 points on their licence from the start of next month.
All for live and let live with cyclists on the roads. But the wankers who cycle on the pavements and expect pedestrians to get out of their way are, well, wankers.
I work at Royal Mint Court at Tower Bridge. It's like playing Frogger trying to cross cycle paths and roads around there. I take the point that speed limits do not apply to cyclists - but they need to do something round there.....the speed that some people cycle in that area are crazy. I can't believe that there's not more accidents with pedestrians there.
All for cyclists but it should be compulsory for them to have insurance. So in Buckshee's example of his f-i-l, never mind his face, did he pay for the damage to the car he hit? Oh, and when cyclists tell you they can get from A to B quicker than you can in a car, do they include the time it takes them to put on the helmet and lyrca, unpadlock/padlock their bike and have a shower and put on fresh clothes?
For what its worth, any motor stopping in the cycle box at the traffic light will receive a £60 fine and 3 points on their licence from the start of next month.
I don't understand why these exist. All they do is hold up the motorised traffic behind them and infuriate drivers even more as they think that cyclists have preferential treatment. A cyclist can't move off as fast as a motorised vehicle.
If a speeding bike hits a child whilst going over the speed limit of the road and god forbid hurt or even worse killed the child what would the person face other than a lifetime of guilt and regret
Serious question not a sarcy post I am interested and has it ever happend
Not sure what the charges will be but I'm hoping they throw the book at this piece of filth...
My road tax not only pays for the roads but also shores up the NHS. You want to cycle on my roads, then pay some tax, get insured, stop at lights and keep off the pavement.
Rant over.
Ha, and what was I saying about attitudes had to change?
I pay tax, I pay car tax, I'm a member of British Cycling to get my race licence and as a result I'm fully insured. Next...
I also think that maybe there's a case for compulsory third party insurance for cyclists.
Totally agree with you, thats why I cannot recommend enough that people should join British Cycling as third party cover is included. For £38 a year its a bargain.
As for speed limits, its rare that any cyclist will exceed the speed limit. My all balls out sprint is only about 35mph and the only time I've done that is on a competitive time trial which is main held on duel carriageways.
LOL. I was waiting for the 'I pay road tax' argument to surface. Can there actually still be people out there who don't know that 'road tax' isn't a tax for you to use the road?
Also, kudos on the two examples of pedestrians being killed by cyclists that have been brought up. Wonder how many pedestrians and cyclists have been killed by cars since those two examples? Since the original aim of this post was to discuss the safety of cyclists on the road and the relative merits/demerits of wearing helmets and of cycle lanes, its interesting to see that its quickly turned into a rant about cyclists holding drivers up or riding like menaces.
Look, there are arseholes riding bikes, there are arseholes driving cars. The difference is, if you're an arsehole on a bike, usually the only one you're going to seriously injure or kill is yourself. If you're an arsehole in a car, you're just as likely to injure or kill someone else as you are yourself.
So - back to subject - I regularly ride the A24 out to Horsham as part of my training runs. That's a dual carriageway, which most cyclists find pretty hairy - but I can honestly say the only truly dangerous bits of it are the stretches with cycle lanes. They encourage drivers to smash it past you with six inches clearance, at about 70mph, instead of doing what they do on the other stretches and pass you properly in the other lane.
For what its worth, any motor stopping in the cycle box at the traffic light will receive a £60 fine and 3 points on their licence from the start of next month.
I don't understand why these exist. All they do is hold up the motorised traffic behind them and infuriate drivers even more as they think that cyclists have preferential treatment. A cyclist can't move off as fast as a motorised vehicle.
So you get held up for 10-15 seconds whilst cyclists safely pull away from the lights with no risk of getting taken out be some clown turning left without looking, indicating etc etc, but they should be done away with?
If a speeding bike hits a child whilst going over the speed limit of the road and god forbid hurt or even worse killed the child what would the person face other than a lifetime of guilt and regret
Serious question not a sarcy post I am interested and has it ever happend
Not sure what the charges will be but I'm hoping they throw the book at this piece of filth...
how on earth can there be no laws for speeding offences on a push bike I have had people ride past me at a great speed of knots
seems to me that cyclists want it and like it all one way, any decent cyclists forum should be campaigning for changes to the law including being made to observe the laws of the road as any other road user should
the majority don't believe that red lights are for them, that riding side by side so they can chat to a pal whilst cycling on sing carriage way roads is fine, no lights and speeding past stationary or slow moving traffic on the inside of vehicles is fine
that not adhering to the conditions of the road and the speed limit is fine
yet they want more respect given to them by other road users
the ting is since riding my scooter I have realised that for the first time on the roads that you are mortal not immortal and I have a different view than I did before ,
as cyclists you surely feel this more than others so stop playing with your lives
no helmets is stupid jumping red lights is suicidal and thinking that being nicked for furious peddling is cool read the link above I hope the bloke who done it gets screwed in jail
Never mind cycle boxes - some of the bollocks you have to put up with in general is laughable. I did 75km on Sunday - from Reigate out through Dorking, down to Horsham, round Little Beeding and back up through Dorking again. During that ride, I was almost sideswiped by an imbecile doing around 80mph on the inside lane of the dual carriageway near Holmwood, had a total c*** in a BMW (quelle surprise) rearwheel me for about a quarter of a mile up a hill outside Mannings Heath, someone overtake me on a single-lane roundabout (saving himself literally three seconds and almost totalling another car using the roundabout correctly) and had a pedestrian step out into the road at random on Dorking High St, causing me to swerve - if there had been a car alongside me at the time I'd have been a goner.
It's just as bad when you're driving - but I think it's just far more noticable when you're a cyclist because you're at much greater risk of death!
Some moron in the city put in a cycle lane going the other way down a one way street. So all those crossing Lombard Street which is a massively busy pedestrian area are looking one way for cars and don't see the cycles coming the other. Well they do now as its been in a few years or so but when first installed i witnessed three dust ups between cyclists and pedestrians arguing who was right and wrong.
There isn't a charge for speeding on a bike, cause unless you have a calibrated speedo on the bike (and I don't even trust the speed reading on my £300 Garmin) you won't know what your speed is, or roughly is. I only found out I was doing 35 down Shooters Hill when I got home and checked it on Strava, and I suspect that's wrong too.
What you can be charged with is Dangerous/careless cycling or cycling on the pavement. the first two carry a fine of upto £1,000
Never mind cycle boxes - some of the bollocks you have to put up with in general is laughable. I did 75km on Sunday - from Reigate out through Dorking, down to Horsham, round Little Beeding and back up through Dorking again. During that ride, I was almost sideswiped by an imbecile doing around 80mph on the inside lane of the dual carriageway near Holmwood, had a total c*** in a BMW (quelle surprise) rearwheel me for about a quarter of a mile up a hill outside Mannings Heath, someone overtake me on a single-lane roundabout (saving himself literally three seconds and almost totalling another car using the roundabout correctly) and had a pedestrian step out into the road at random on Dorking High St, causing me to swerve - if there had been a car alongside me at the time I'd have been a goner.
It's just as bad when you're driving - but I think it's just far more noticable when you're a cyclist because you're at much greater risk of death!
Another fav of mine is the driver sitting in stationary traffic who leans across to open the passenger door to chuck some rubbish out. Cycle lane on Ha Ha Rd last Friday, I'm cruising up to the lights, van door fly's open just as I go past, empty drink bottle fly's out. 2 seconds earlier I would have been hit by the door, 2 seconds later I would have ridden straight into the door. When I asked whether the van driver had looked before he did it he had the cheek to have a go at me.
Spine Rd Thamesmead 18 months ago. Hacking along at 30mph Vauxhall Corsa slows down and lobs a full 500ml bottle of coke at me, hit me on the helmet and very nearly knocked me off.
Thames Pathway going towards Charlton 2-3 years ago. Full glass milk bottle thrown at me, hit me in the chest. Completely winded and left with bruises. Reported it to the police as I knew the house where the kids were - response "did anyone else see it?"
For every poor rider there are an equal or greater number of numpty's who are quite happy to injure a cyclist.
Never mind cycle boxes - some of the bollocks you have to put up with in general is laughable. I did 75km on Sunday - from Reigate out through Dorking, down to Horsham, round Little Beeding and back up through Dorking again. During that ride, I was almost sideswiped by an imbecile doing around 80mph on the inside lane of the dual carriageway near Holmwood, had a total c*** in a BMW (quelle surprise) rearwheel me for about a quarter of a mile up a hill outside Mannings Heath, someone overtake me on a single-lane roundabout (saving himself literally three seconds and almost totalling another car using the roundabout correctly) and had a pedestrian step out into the road at random on Dorking High St, causing me to swerve - if there had been a car alongside me at the time I'd have been a goner.
It's just as bad when you're driving - but I think it's just far more noticable when you're a cyclist because you're at much greater risk of death!
Another fav of mine is the driver sitting in stationary traffic who leans across to open the passenger door to chuck some rubbish out. Cycle lane on Ha Ha Rd last Friday, I'm cruising up to the lights, van door fly's open just as I go past, empty drink bottle fly's out. 2 seconds earlier I would have been hit by the door, 2 seconds later I would have ridden straight into the door. When I asked whether the van driver had looked before he did it he had the cheek to have a go at me.
Spine Rd Thamesmead 18 months ago. Hacking along at 30mph Vauxhall Corsa slows down and lobs a full 500ml bottle of coke at me, hit me on the helmet
Bet that made your eyes water.
There is no way you'd get me on 2 wheels on the road.
Some moron in the city put in a cycle lane going the other way down a one way street. So all those crossing Lombard Street which is a massively busy pedestrian area are looking one way for cars and don't see the cycles coming the other. Well they do now as its been in a few years or so but when first installed i witnessed three dust ups between cyclists and pedestrians arguing who was right and wrong.
Have to cross that road every day to and from the office and you see someone nearly (or actually) come a cropper pretty much every day. Road planners in this country need to be shot. Every last one of the useless twats.
Would like to use a cycle, but, living in London I think its too risky. As a white van man I would like to say that the majority (NOT ALL) cyclists don't seem to think the red traffic light is there for them.
Some moron in the city put in a cycle lane going the other way down a one way street. So all those crossing Lombard Street which is a massively busy pedestrian area are looking one way for cars and don't see the cycles coming the other. Well they do now as its been in a few years or so but when first installed i witnessed three dust ups between cyclists and pedestrians arguing who was right and wrong.
Have to cross that road every day to and from the office and you see someone nearly (or actually) come a cropper pretty much every day. Road planners in this country need to be shot. Every last one of the useless twats.
I have ranted at the City of London a few times about it but get nowhere. The worst bit of road planning I've seen
Comments
Look I occasionally go out without a helmet. I used to ride always without a helmet. I've had crashes at over 45-50 kmh an hour with no head injury. When pro cyclists didn't wear helmets there was no observed statistical difference in head injuries, or indeed fatalities. It is no comparison to the statistical analysis, that Robert Mcnamara and Ford did to prove that wearing a seat belt significantly saved lives. I usually wear a helmet because of the rare occasion I've come off off road, and waited for a tree to fly past my head, I realised the difference a helmet would make. Enforcement? I'm not sure but if statistically Australia proves it's necessity then so be it.
As for cycle paths I rarely use them ME14 if they're on a road, for many reasons:
Poorly designed, rarely do they extend or make any sense longer than a few hundred yards.
Constant crossing of roads to either side.
They stop at every junction, meaning I have to stop and wait for any cars coming across me or past me. Whereas on a road I only need to stop for lights, or from a minor to major.
They're often not kept up.
They often undulate dangerously for extended drives.
They often have cars or builders parked on them.
Irrational disappearing bike lanes.
Pedestrians block them: Fine anything slower moving should be respected and observed.
So next time you drive past a cycle lane have some empathy, look at what some moron did in the council narrowing the road wasting everyone's money and producing an idiotic and lethal bike lane. If it's difficult to get by, you're probably going through an area where you're average speed is ancient.
Serious question not a sarcy post I am interested and has it ever happend
Rant over.
I don't know how many children are killed by bicycles but I would hazard a guess that motor vehicles are a much more serious risk and that any death on the road would be prosecuted if appropriate. In a cyclists case presumably as manslaughter if there was a provable case.
It's like playing Frogger trying to cross cycle paths and roads around there.
I take the point that speed limits do not apply to cyclists - but they need to do something round there.....the speed that some people cycle in that area are crazy.
I can't believe that there's not more accidents with pedestrians there.
Oh, and when cyclists tell you they can get from A to B quicker than you can in a car, do they include the time it takes them to put on the helmet and lyrca, unpadlock/padlock their bike and have a shower and put on fresh clothes?
I also think that maybe there's a case for compulsory third party insurance for cyclists.
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/10575685.UPDATED__Man_released_on_bail_as_girl__9__critically_injured_in_hit_and_run_is_named_as_Leila_Crofts/
I pay tax, I pay car tax, I'm a member of British Cycling to get my race licence and as a result I'm fully insured. Next... Totally agree with you, thats why I cannot recommend enough that people should join British Cycling as third party cover is included. For £38 a year its a bargain.
As for speed limits, its rare that any cyclist will exceed the speed limit. My all balls out sprint is only about 35mph and the only time I've done that is on a competitive time trial which is main held on duel carriageways.
Also, kudos on the two examples of pedestrians being killed by cyclists that have been brought up. Wonder how many pedestrians and cyclists have been killed by cars since those two examples? Since the original aim of this post was to discuss the safety of cyclists on the road and the relative merits/demerits of wearing helmets and of cycle lanes, its interesting to see that its quickly turned into a rant about cyclists holding drivers up or riding like menaces.
Look, there are arseholes riding bikes, there are arseholes driving cars. The difference is, if you're an arsehole on a bike, usually the only one you're going to seriously injure or kill is yourself. If you're an arsehole in a car, you're just as likely to injure or kill someone else as you are yourself.
So - back to subject - I regularly ride the A24 out to Horsham as part of my training runs. That's a dual carriageway, which most cyclists find pretty hairy - but I can honestly say the only truly dangerous bits of it are the stretches with cycle lanes. They encourage drivers to smash it past you with six inches clearance, at about 70mph, instead of doing what they do on the other stretches and pass you properly in the other lane.
Dear oh dear.
how on earth can there be no laws for speeding offences on a push bike I have had people ride past me at a great speed of knots
seems to me that cyclists want it and like it all one way, any decent cyclists forum should be campaigning for changes to the law including being made to observe the laws of the road as any other road user should
the majority don't believe that red lights are for them, that riding side by side so they can chat to a pal whilst cycling on sing carriage way roads is fine, no lights and speeding past stationary or slow moving traffic on the inside of vehicles is fine
that not adhering to the conditions of the road and the speed limit is fine
yet they want more respect given to them by other road users
the ting is since riding my scooter I have realised that for the first time on the roads that you are mortal not immortal and I have a different view than I did before ,
as cyclists you surely feel this more than others so stop playing with your lives
no helmets is stupid
jumping red lights is suicidal
and thinking that being nicked for furious peddling is cool read the link above I hope the bloke who done it gets screwed in jail
It's just as bad when you're driving - but I think it's just far more noticable when you're a cyclist because you're at much greater risk of death!
What you can be charged with is Dangerous/careless cycling or cycling on the pavement. the first two carry a fine of upto £1,000
Some examples of "silly cyclists" and of course plenty of examples of even worse motorists.
Spine Rd Thamesmead 18 months ago. Hacking along at 30mph Vauxhall Corsa slows down and lobs a full 500ml bottle of coke at me, hit me on the helmet and very nearly knocked me off.
Thames Pathway going towards Charlton 2-3 years ago. Full glass milk bottle thrown at me, hit me in the chest. Completely winded and left with bruises. Reported it to the police as I knew the house where the kids were - response "did anyone else see it?"
For every poor rider there are an equal or greater number of numpty's who are quite happy to injure a cyclist.
There is no way you'd get me on 2 wheels on the road.
As a white van man I would like to say that the majority (NOT ALL) cyclists don't seem to think the red traffic light is there for them.