That's not right mate. Outside the paras, Barnsley, Bournemouth, Derby, Doncaster, Hudds, Ipswich, Leeds, Millwall, Boro, Forest, Yeovil have all spent money / increased their wage bill.
I would say it is only us, Burnley, Brum, Blackpool, Brighton, Leicester, Sheffield W and Watford who have either stood still / regressed in terms of financial commitment. And virtually every one of those would be starting at a much higher level than us.
Not disputing what you say AFKA, but wondering how much hard fact lies behind your assertion.
I've been through and updated all the Championship transfer activity.
Whilst that does not tell you the whole picture (ie. released from last season in full, nor new contracts signed by existing players, it gives you a rough idea to compare who is attempting to move forward, sideways etc) imo.
That's not right mate. Outside the paras, Barnsley, Bournemouth, Derby, Doncaster, Hudds, Ipswich, Leeds, Millwall, Boro, Forest, Yeovil have all spent money / increased their wage bill.
I would say it is only us, Burnley, Brum, Blackpool, Brighton, Leicester, Sheffield W and Watford who have either stood still / regressed in terms of financial commitment. And virtually every one of those would be starting at a much higher level than us.
Not disputing what you say AFKA, but wondering how much hard fact lies behind your assertion.
I've been through and updated all the Championship transfer activity.
Whilst that does not tell you the whole picture (ie. released from last season in full, nor new contracts signed by existing players, it gives you a rough idea to compare who is attempting to move forward, sideways etc) imo.
Excellent. Thanks for doing it, will be useful for all of us who are interested in the financial side. But this does not tell us about wages, does it? I cannot imagine what source could provide such data, but it is an important part of the Jiminez/Slater "policy" that wages are on their way down in this league.
Well if you ever need an example of wage deflation at Championship clubs, then poor old Danny Hollands has got to live in a caravan for the next three months...
Well if you ever need an example of wage deflation at Championship clubs, then poor old Danny Hollands has got to live in a caravan for the next three months...
Not sure of the accuracy of this, but this site seems to pick up all players out of contract in 2014. Leicester seem to have 9 senior players on it. We're joint top with 16, Barnsley the other side, but there are a number at just about all clubs.
Bournemouth 12 Barnsley 16 Birmingham 12 (3 now signed another year) Blackburn 9 Blackpool 15 (5 now on another year) Bolton 6 Brighton 14 Burnley 9 Charlton 16 Derby 10 (3 now on another year) Donny 11 Hudds 9 Ipswich 5 (1 now signed on another year) Leeds 7 Leicester 9 Boro 9 (1 now on another year) Millwall 14 Forest 8 QPR 12 Reading 7 Wednesday 12 Watford 5 Wigan 6 Yeovil 10
That's not right mate. Outside the paras, Barnsley, Bournemouth, Derby, Doncaster, Hudds, Ipswich, Leeds, Millwall, Boro, Forest, Yeovil have all spent money / increased their wage bill.
I would say it is only us, Burnley, Brum, Blackpool, Brighton, Leicester, Sheffield W and Watford who have either stood still / regressed in terms of financial commitment. And virtually every one of those would be starting at a much higher level than us.
Not disputing what you say AFKA, but wondering how much hard fact lies behind your assertion.
I've been through and updated all the Championship transfer activity.
Whilst that does not tell you the whole picture (ie. released from last season in full, nor new contracts signed by existing players, it gives you a rough idea to compare who is attempting to move forward, sideways etc) imo.
Excellent. Thanks for doing it, will be useful for all of us who are interested in the financial side. But this does not tell us about wages, does it? I cannot imagine what source could provide such data, but it is an important part of the Jiminez/Slater "policy" that wages are on their way down in this league.
There was a good piece on Boro published on here about transition. Last season's accounts (for all clubs) won't come in until Dec-February so very hard to get an accurate picture... but perhaps the Trust can network with other trusts and maybe hook up with someone like Swiss Ramble who collates tons of data?
So the norm appears to be 10 players out of contract in the summer as opposed to CAFC with 16... with perhaps two or three offered extensions by now?
Once the window closes, there is an international break and we can reflect / gather our thoughts...The next window, and next summer will see a change in the overall market - how radical is very difficult to predict. After that in January 2015 there will be perhaps two or three clubs excluded from the window for spending too much this season. High spending clubs will have cut budgets or been promoted... so the demand/appetite for clubs to outspend others simply must be coming down.
What is obvious is that the current CAFC board are not trying to spend their way out of the division. As documented by CASTrust as early as last March we are already well within FFP limits this season although these limits reduce by £2m next season...
It has to be progress that someone like Prague has secured a dialogue or at least the start of one. This after all is what the vast majority of fans want to see and have stated should be a Supporters Trust priority. Some have a problem with that which is an interesting stance to take - but what is logical end game to NOT talking to the club?
And finally, the directors watch the same games as the rest of us and they view the same skills, combinations and errors.... so let's see what they actually do between now and Christmas?
With so much conjecture going on regarding the squad, and in particular the fact that 16 players are out of contract at the end of this season, I thought I might add one possible scenario to the debate.
Financial Fair Play is going to have a major impact of football finances: It may not be apparent now, but ultimately, if simply for the reason it was introduced, it must have some sort of effect on how much clubs spend on player wages.
We know that, at Charlton, the club allowed many players contracts to expire in 2011. Many of these players had been on Championship (or even in some cases, Premiership) wages, the result of over-spending by Pardew and/or Parkinson. As a consequence of getting these players off the wage bill, Chris Powell was able to completely rebuild his (ultimately) title-winning team from pretty much scratch. Very few 1st team players from 2010 remained in the title-winning side (Wagstaff - who was not on a comparatively high salary - being about the only one). While we fans may have been quite happy with the season as it panned out, I am sure that the new Board (whoever the backers may be) will also have been very happy, as they saw revenue improve while salary costs were significantly reduced.
I therefore ponder this scenario?
Do the Board wish to see another season (this time in the Championship) where revenue will improve (even marginally), while costs reduce?
With a similar scenario forthcoming (where many of the squad are out of contract), is it possible that the Board may sanction a “forced” reduction in the wage bill by letting contracts expire, and replacing wholesale with a new team/squad?
Is it possible that Chris Powell (presuming he remains at the helm?) will be asked to try to keep the club within the Championship this season (using the current squad, plus loans, one-year contracts, and our outstanding group of youngsters), and then to rebuild once more through low-cost transfers and freebies (plus some of those youngsters who will be a another year older…), in the hope that his magic can bring forth another title- winning season?
It’s not such a silly idea…
With so many clubs having players whose contracts expire at the end of this season, it would seem possible to create a, very strong, new squad for 2014/15 from those that are deemed as surplus to requirements; whether this new squad would be capable of challenging for promotion to the Premiership, I do not know, but if you were able to see the list of available players, you could probably (using your Championship Manager hat) put together a very good side, and with back-up (as Charlton did in 2011) .
The problem is that the best players who will be available will be released mainly because they are on higher wages than can be met at that club (FFP kicking in again), but initially they will expect to be paid in line with previous salaries. Negotiation (which may not be a strong-point within the Charlton boardroom at this stage) will be key to getting those players to sign for Charlton, but we know that plenty will be available, and many will be left seeking any offer rather than having a choice. Agents will prefer to get 10% of an average deal rather than 10% of nothing. Maybe in a couple of years when playing fields are levelled a little it will be easier to foresee, but this could pan out to Charlton’s advantage next summer?
If this is part of the “long-game” being played by Messrs Slater and Jiminez, they will need to fund the team enough this season to maintain their current status (which currently looks like it may be in jeopardy of falling back to the league we were in previously …); without that funding and ability to stay in the Championship this season, the game would be lost.
So maybe, as fans, we should see what the next month or so brings? If players are sold (or not), and nobody arrives as replacements, then it looks like the Board may have given up. If some new players do make it into the squad, and that squad plays to its ability, then maybe, just maybe, next season is the one when we will see a summer of many more comings and goings, hopefully leading to a push in the right direction.
NB This is just a possible scenario to debate, and not particularly what I think...
Nice thinking Pedro, but i think you've tried to go a little too deep with it mate. There is absolutely no plan to that extent i am sure (though if it turned out like that, i'm sure they would say there was).
The major holes are:
1. What happens if it doesn't work, and we get relegated ? 2. Income will plummet through the season the longer we continue to struggle 3. Things have to come to a head in football within a couple of months. No negative plan can be played out throughout the whole season, the place would be simply unbearable. 4. Powell's reputation is on the line. He won't stand much longer for his standing in the game to fall if he doesn't think he is being given a fair opportunity to do his job. 5. Whoever owns the club really isn't interested in playing a long-game, that's for sure 6. The vast majority of these expiring contracts are League 1 contracts. We are not about to have the likes of Winston Bogarde suddenly off our books. 7. Our wage bill at the moment is already one of the smallest in the division 8. Players want to sign for clubs potentially moving forward, not ones seemingly not, or with a reputation of messing their players around
The problem with that scenario is it makes a lot of assumption about there actually being a plan. It also ignores what other clubs are doing.
Other clubs are already signing players on free transfer or small fees while reducing wage bills. They are ahead of us.
Even Seriously Red say that we are under the FFP limit which means we are spending less than we could. The reason for that is, IMO, that we just don't have the money.
Slater has already mentioned FFP in his programme notes, without giving any real detail. In reality I suspect that he is pretending that FFP is the reason for so little spending and so many out of contract players (even the young sellable ones) because it hides the reality that we are skint.
the other problem is that our income is down. The leaked prospectus shows that our non-TV income has reduced slighty, the Andrews Sponsorship is now lower that last season and other income has dropped. And while the team is performing badly and were out the League Cup there is little prospect of that changing.
Yes, of course, AFKA. But if we say - 1. If we do get relegated we still play the same game (cheaper squad, try to win the title again etc...) 2. That wil happen anyway by the looks of things 3. Think longer term... 4. What is his job? Surely at a club like Charlton it is to take the squad as far as he can (in whatever division we are in)? If he can keep us up this year, next season is a better option to push on than this season was everlikely to be. 5. I think Slater said when he took over it was a long game...(4-5 years?) 6. Yes, but maybe we can get better still players at the same price due to FFP? (please not Winston though!!!) 7. It is. 8. Yes, but maybe they wil be told the plan?
Just debating...nothing three points tomorrow will harm!
5. I think Slater said when he took over it was a long game...(4-5 years?)
No, he really didn't.
People often mention this five year plan but Slater has never said that there was a five year plan and Murray confirmed that there was no such plan at Bromley last May.
5. I think Slater said when he took over it was a long game...(4-5 years?)
No, he really didn't.
People often mention this five year plan but Slater has never said that there was a five year plan and Murray confirmed that there was no such plan at Bromley last May.
I was at Bromley a few years back when Michael Slater was asked by myself and others where he saw the club in 5 years - a very different proposition... his response was Year 1 promotion, year 2 Championship consolidation and year 3 have a pop at the playoffs...
That is where we have a divergence for all number of reasons... perhaps it is time to ask the question again?
Like that Henry... "even Seriously Red says we are under FFP"... yes we are well within the envelope because we have dropped £1.5M off the wage bill - if I was spouting a party line I could cite a higher number... ticket revenue is up this season so we are looking at losses of c.£5M this year including depr'n (£1M) and Academy (£?) which don't count as part of FFP...
The only way to spin this positively is that new owners have sufficient headroom to boost the squad OR that players can be brought in if wheels start falling off - I have been very consistent in stating that it will cost more to repair the squad than it would have been to develop... and relegation is not an option because it destroys the value that has been built in the last two years, yes 100% destroys
Pedro - I think Shooters Hill Guru conveyed a rumour similar to what you have outlined, i.e., all change next summer AND this has been cited as part of the sales "prospectus". AFKA - the players may have been signed while we were in League 1 but I suspect that many had clauses for rises in the Championship.. not just promotion bonuses ... I think CAFC is bang in the middle of Championship stats for gates, losses, revenue and costs but we won't know that for sure until accounts are filed
So what happens in the meantime... I think this takes us to the Chris Powell thread about just getting on with it? I could really spin this up or down but...
5. I think Slater said when he took over it was a long game...(4-5 years?)
No, he really didn't.
People often mention this five year plan but Slater has never said that there was a five year plan and Murray confirmed that there was no such plan at Bromley last May.
I was at Bromley a few years back when Michael Slater was asked by myself and others where he saw the club in 5 years - a very different proposition... his response was Year 1 promotion, year 2 Championship consolidation and year 3 have a pop at the playoffs...
That is where we have a divergence for all number of reasons... perhaps it is time to ask the question again?
You have mis-remembered. I asked that question not you and that wasn't the answer he gave either, nothing like it.
"As always the last two questions were "will you come back again next year?" MS "yes, as long as were on a 6 game unbeaten run" and "Where do you see the Club in five years time?"
Slightly unfair as this is the same question we've asked Richard Murray every year for 17 years until RM must be sick of it. MS took some time and thought and you could see him ticking off the steps year by year but "premiership or very close" was the answer."
And that is as close as he's every come to saying there was a five year plan.
And he didn't keep his promise about coming back either. Offer is still open, Mike.
And if the idea of one year deals is so good and the way forward why did we give Church and Harriot two years. Surely that goes against the clever "let all their deals run down as we can re-sign them on the cheap next summer" plan.
I don't think anyone has said one year deals are so good. I doubt many, if any, players would sign a one year deal.
The vast majority of players with contracts running out, never signed one year deals. Just saying :-)
Edit :- Having said that they will sign 5 month contracts (Jack Munns) lol.
Out Of Contract in summer 2014: Waghorn, Dyer, Smith, Schmeichel, Danns, St Ledger, Nugent, Konchesky, Morgan, Whitbread, Blyth, Pearson, Taft, Paratore
Out Of Contract in summer 2015: Gallagher, King, Drinkwater, Schlupp, De Laet, James, Vardy, Futacs, Knockaert, Moore, Dodoo, Logan, Bakayogo
Out Of Contract in summer 2016: Wood
Unknown, was out this summer, but must have signed a new one Hopper ?
A number of players got contract extensions under Sven, many of which were too long.
If it is known we are "willing to let go" (keen to offload) from the 2014 list - certainly Danns, St Ledger & Konchesky (last 2 due to high wages), meanwhile on the 2015 list Gallagher & Futacs are surplus
Of the 2014 list, the central spine of Schmeichel, , Morgan & Nugent would be the 3 of most concern, I would imagine they will try & extend all 3, in Schmeichel's case in particular to maximise the fee we can get. If he has another good season & we don't go up, I'm sure a Premiership club will come in for him, who Schmeichel thinks will make him 1st choice & the team are likely to stay up.
Like that Henry... "even Seriously Red says we are under FFP"... yes we are well within the envelope because we have dropped £1.5M off the wage bill - if I was spouting a party line I could cite a higher number... ticket revenue is up this season so we are looking at losses of c.£5M this year including depr'n (£1M) and Academy (£?) which don't count as part of FFP...
If we are looking at a £5m loss this year then we are still £2m over the FFP threshold unless the owner injects equity though aren't we ?
think so, and don't necessarily accept this is the reason it but you have to start living with the 'cut' soon or later better to get started, and do it in annual increments I would have thought?
think so, and don't necessarily accept this is the reason it but you have to start living with the 'cut' soon or later better to get started, and do it in annual increments I would have thought?
But we aren't really living with the cut though, we're bleeding to death from it.
Good info @razil - I'd say Leicester's OOC list is pretty reasonable, two or three expiring this year that they'd like to keep the rest drains on resources or fringe players who don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things. A sensible approach and one I wish we were following.
Like that Henry... "even Seriously Red says we are under FFP"... yes we are well within the envelope because we have dropped £1.5M off the wage bill - if I was spouting a party line I could cite a higher number... ticket revenue is up this season so we are looking at losses of c.£5M this year including depr'n (£1M) and Academy (£?) which don't count as part of FFP...
If we are looking at a £5m loss this year then we are still £2m over the FFP threshold unless the owner injects equity though aren't we ?
Not if you take off the depreciation and Academy costs? Very difficult to forecast accurately in the absence of last seasons numbets. Perhaps the Trust could ask the club to confirm ball park numbers?
At least the rate of increase on club debts overall (currently £40m) will slow which is clearly one of the intentions of FFP.
Like that Henry... "even Seriously Red says we are under FFP"... yes we are well within the envelope because we have dropped £1.5M off the wage bill - if I was spouting a party line I could cite a higher number... ticket revenue is up this season so we are looking at losses of c.£5M this year including depr'n (£1M) and Academy (£?) which don't count as part of FFP...
If we are looking at a £5m loss this year then we are still £2m over the FFP threshold unless the owner injects equity though aren't we ?
Not if you take off the depreciation and Academy costs? Very difficult to forecast accurately in the absence of last seasons numbets. Perhaps the Trust could ask the club to confirm ball park numbers?
At least the rate of increase on club debts overall (currently £40m) will slow which is clearly one of the intentions of FFP.
We have last season's numbers, accurate as far as necessary. We have their estimate that this season will be the same as last season, despite squad cost reductions, so for FFP purposes a loss of £4.3m - the club's own figures, not speculation or spin. That is £3.7m under the limit, but would mean £1.3m will need to go in as equity,
Like that Henry... "even Seriously Red says we are under FFP"... yes we are well within the envelope because we have dropped £1.5M off the wage bill - if I was spouting a party line I could cite a higher number... ticket revenue is up this season so we are looking at losses of c.£5M this year including depr'n (£1M) and Academy (£?) which don't count as part of FFP...
If we are looking at a £5m loss this year then we are still £2m over the FFP threshold unless the owner injects equity though aren't we ?
Not if you take off the depreciation and Academy costs? Very difficult to forecast accurately in the absence of last seasons numbets. Perhaps the Trust could ask the club to confirm ball park numbers?
At least the rate of increase on club debts overall (currently £40m) will slow which is clearly one of the intentions of FFP.
We have last season's numbers, accurate as far as necessary. We have their estimate that this season will be the same as last season, despite squad cost reductions, so for FFP purposes a loss of £4.3m - the club's own figures, not speculation or spin. That is £3.7m under the limit, but would mean £1.3m will need to go in as equity,
For the purposes of FFP would someone picking up the wage bill one month count as "injecting equity" ?
Like that Henry... "even Seriously Red says we are under FFP"... yes we are well within the envelope because we have dropped £1.5M off the wage bill - if I was spouting a party line I could cite a higher number... ticket revenue is up this season so we are looking at losses of c.£5M this year including depr'n (£1M) and Academy (£?) which don't count as part of FFP...
If we are looking at a £5m loss this year then we are still £2m over the FFP threshold unless the owner injects equity though aren't we ?
Not if you take off the depreciation and Academy costs? Very difficult to forecast accurately in the absence of last seasons numbets. Perhaps the Trust could ask the club to confirm ball park numbers?
At least the rate of increase on club debts overall (currently £40m) will slow which is clearly one of the intentions of FFP.
We have last season's numbers, accurate as far as necessary. We have their estimate that this season will be the same as last season, despite squad cost reductions, so for FFP purposes a loss of £4.3m - the club's own figures, not speculation or spin. That is £3.7m under the limit, but would mean £1.3m will need to go in as equity,
For the purposes of FFP would someone picking up the wage bill one month count as "injecting equity" ?
"Clubs can therefore exclude infrastructure development costs and youth development/community development costs"
So using Airmans figures someone needs to put their hand in their pocket or we'll be banned from the January 2015 transfer which might have a dramatic impact on us gaining promotion back to the Championship at the first attempt.
Comments
http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/55908/confirmed-championship-transfers-summer-2013
Whilst that does not tell you the whole picture (ie. released from last season in full, nor new contracts signed by existing players, it gives you a rough idea to compare who is attempting to move forward, sideways etc) imo.
those poor poor (and poor) lickle triplets !!!
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/spieler/vertragsende/basics_GB2_2014.html
Bournemouth 12
Barnsley 16
Birmingham 12 (3 now signed another year)
Blackburn 9
Blackpool 15 (5 now on another year)
Bolton 6
Brighton 14
Burnley 9
Charlton 16
Derby 10 (3 now on another year)
Donny 11
Hudds 9
Ipswich 5 (1 now signed on another year)
Leeds 7
Leicester 9
Boro 9 (1 now on another year)
Millwall 14
Forest 8
QPR 12
Reading 7
Wednesday 12
Watford 5
Wigan 6
Yeovil 10
So the norm appears to be 10 players out of contract in the summer as opposed to CAFC with 16... with perhaps two or three offered extensions by now?
Once the window closes, there is an international break and we can reflect / gather our thoughts...The next window, and next summer will see a change in the overall market - how radical is very difficult to predict. After that in January 2015 there will be perhaps two or three clubs excluded from the window for spending too much this season. High spending clubs will have cut budgets or been promoted... so the demand/appetite for clubs to outspend others simply must be coming down.
What is obvious is that the current CAFC board are not trying to spend their way out of the division. As documented by CASTrust as early as last March we are already well within FFP limits this season although these limits reduce by £2m next season...
It has to be progress that someone like Prague has secured a dialogue or at least the start of one. This after all is what the vast majority of fans want to see and have stated should be a Supporters Trust priority. Some have a problem with that which is an interesting stance to take - but what is logical end game to NOT talking to the club?
And finally, the directors watch the same games as the rest of us and they view the same skills, combinations and errors.... so let's see what they actually do between now and Christmas?
Financial Fair Play is going to have a major impact of football finances: It may not be apparent now, but ultimately, if simply for the reason it was introduced, it must have some sort of effect on how much clubs spend on player wages.
We know that, at Charlton, the club allowed many players contracts to expire in 2011. Many of these players had been on Championship (or even in some cases, Premiership) wages, the result of over-spending by Pardew and/or Parkinson. As a consequence of getting these players off the wage bill, Chris Powell was able to completely rebuild his (ultimately) title-winning team from pretty much scratch. Very few 1st team players from 2010 remained in the title-winning side (Wagstaff - who was not on a comparatively high salary - being about the only one). While we fans may have been quite happy with the season as it panned out, I am sure that the new Board (whoever the backers may be) will also have been very happy, as they saw revenue improve while salary costs were significantly reduced.
I therefore ponder this scenario?
Do the Board wish to see another season (this time in the Championship) where revenue will improve (even marginally), while costs reduce?
With a similar scenario forthcoming (where many of the squad are out of contract), is it possible that the Board may sanction a “forced” reduction in the wage bill by letting contracts expire, and replacing wholesale with a new team/squad?
Is it possible that Chris Powell (presuming he remains at the helm?) will be asked to try to keep the club within the Championship this season (using the current squad, plus loans, one-year contracts, and our outstanding group of youngsters), and then to rebuild once more through low-cost transfers and freebies (plus some of those youngsters who will be a another year older…), in the hope that his magic can bring forth another title- winning season?
It’s not such a silly idea…
With so many clubs having players whose contracts expire at the end of this season, it would seem possible to create a, very strong, new squad for 2014/15 from those that are deemed as surplus to requirements; whether this new squad would be capable of challenging for promotion to the Premiership, I do not know, but if you were able to see the list of available players, you could probably (using your Championship Manager hat) put together a very good side, and with back-up (as Charlton did in 2011) .
The problem is that the best players who will be available will be released mainly because they are on higher wages than can be met at that club (FFP kicking in again), but initially they will expect to be paid in line with previous salaries. Negotiation (which may not be a strong-point within the Charlton boardroom at this stage) will be key to getting those players to sign for Charlton, but we know that plenty will be available, and many will be left seeking any offer rather than having a choice. Agents will prefer to get 10% of an average deal rather than 10% of nothing. Maybe in a couple of years when playing fields are levelled a little it will be easier to foresee, but this could pan out to Charlton’s advantage next summer?
If this is part of the “long-game” being played by Messrs Slater and Jiminez, they will need to fund the team enough this season to maintain their current status (which currently looks like it may be in jeopardy of falling back to the league we were in previously …); without that funding and ability to stay in the Championship this season, the game would be lost.
So maybe, as fans, we should see what the next month or so brings? If players are sold (or not), and nobody arrives as replacements, then it looks like the Board may have given up. If some new players do make it into the squad, and that squad plays to its ability, then maybe, just maybe, next season is the one when we will see a summer of many more comings and goings, hopefully leading to a push in the right direction.
NB This is just a possible scenario to debate, and not particularly what I think...
Come on you Addicks!
The major holes are:
1. What happens if it doesn't work, and we get relegated ?
2. Income will plummet through the season the longer we continue to struggle
3. Things have to come to a head in football within a couple of months. No negative plan can be played out throughout the whole season, the place would be simply unbearable.
4. Powell's reputation is on the line. He won't stand much longer for his standing in the game to fall if he doesn't think he is being given a fair opportunity to do his job.
5. Whoever owns the club really isn't interested in playing a long-game, that's for sure
6. The vast majority of these expiring contracts are League 1 contracts. We are not about to have the likes of Winston Bogarde suddenly off our books.
7. Our wage bill at the moment is already one of the smallest in the division
8. Players want to sign for clubs potentially moving forward, not ones seemingly not, or with a reputation of messing their players around
Other clubs are already signing players on free transfer or small fees while reducing wage bills. They are ahead of us.
Even Seriously Red say that we are under the FFP limit which means we are spending less than we could. The reason for that is, IMO, that we just don't have the money.
Slater has already mentioned FFP in his programme notes, without giving any real detail. In reality I suspect that he is pretending that FFP is the reason for so little spending and so many out of contract players (even the young sellable ones) because it hides the reality that we are skint.
the other problem is that our income is down. The leaked prospectus shows that our non-TV income has reduced slighty, the Andrews Sponsorship is now lower that last season and other income has dropped. And while the team is performing badly and were out the League Cup there is little prospect of that changing.
1. If we do get relegated we still play the same game (cheaper squad, try to win the title again etc...)
2. That wil happen anyway by the looks of things
3. Think longer term...
4. What is his job? Surely at a club like Charlton it is to take the squad as far as he can (in whatever division we are in)? If he can keep us up this year, next season is a better option to push on than this season was everlikely to be.
5. I think Slater said when he took over it was a long game...(4-5 years?)
6. Yes, but maybe we can get better still players at the same price due to FFP? (please not Winston though!!!)
7. It is.
8. Yes, but maybe they wil be told the plan?
Just debating...nothing three points tomorrow will harm!
People often mention this five year plan but Slater has never said that there was a five year plan and Murray confirmed that there was no such plan at Bromley last May.
That is where we have a divergence for all number of reasons... perhaps it is time to ask the question again?
The only way to spin this positively is that new owners have sufficient headroom to boost the squad OR that players can be brought in if wheels start falling off - I have been very consistent in stating that it will cost more to repair the squad than it would have been to develop... and relegation is not an option because it destroys the value that has been built in the last two years, yes 100% destroys
Pedro - I think Shooters Hill Guru conveyed a rumour similar to what you have outlined, i.e., all change next summer AND this has been cited as part of the sales "prospectus". AFKA - the players may have been signed while we were in League 1 but I suspect that many had clauses for rises in the Championship.. not just promotion bonuses ... I think CAFC is bang in the middle of Championship stats for gates, losses, revenue and costs but we won't know that for sure until accounts are filed
So what happens in the meantime... I think this takes us to the Chris Powell thread about just getting on with it? I could really spin this up or down but...
"As always the last two questions were "will you come back again next year?" MS "yes, as long as were on a 6 game unbeaten run" and "Where do you see the Club in five years time?"
Slightly unfair as this is the same question we've asked Richard Murray every year for 17 years until RM must be sick of it. MS took some time and thought and you could see him ticking off the steps year by year but "premiership or very close" was the answer."
And that is as close as he's every come to saying there was a five year plan.
And he didn't keep his promise about coming back either. Offer is still open, Mike.
The vast majority of players with contracts running out, never signed one year deals. Just saying :-)
Edit :- Having said that they will sign 5 month contracts (Jack Munns) lol.
Out Of Contract in summer 2014:
Waghorn, Dyer, Smith, Schmeichel, Danns, St Ledger, Nugent, Konchesky,
Morgan, Whitbread, Blyth, Pearson, Taft, Paratore
Out Of Contract in summer 2015:
Gallagher, King, Drinkwater, Schlupp, De Laet, James, Vardy, Futacs,
Knockaert, Moore, Dodoo, Logan, Bakayogo
Out Of Contract in summer 2016:
Wood
Unknown, was out this summer, but must have signed a new one
Hopper ?
A number of players got contract extensions under Sven, many of which were
too long.
If it is known we are "willing to let go" (keen to offload) from the 2014
list - certainly Danns, St Ledger & Konchesky (last 2 due to high wages),
meanwhile on the 2015 list Gallagher & Futacs are surplus
Of the 2014 list, the central spine of Schmeichel, , Morgan & Nugent would
be the 3 of most concern, I would imagine they will try & extend all 3, in
Schmeichel's case in particular to maximise the fee we can get. If he has
another good season & we don't go up, I'm sure a Premiership club will come
in for him, who Schmeichel thinks will make him 1st choice & the team are
likely to stay up.
At least the rate of increase on club debts overall (currently £40m) will slow which is clearly one of the intentions of FFP.
"Clubs can therefore exclude infrastructure development costs and youth development/community development costs"
So using Airmans figures someone needs to put their hand in their pocket or we'll be banned from the January 2015 transfer which might have a dramatic impact on us gaining promotion back to the Championship at the first attempt.