'Det Ch Insp Mick Foote, from the Met's gang crime unit Trident, said Mark Duggan was a "confrontational and violent" member of Tottenham Man Dem, a gang associated with drug dealing and violence, the latter usually targeted at other gangs in London. He said Mark Duggan was one of the 48 most violent criminals in Europe, and in 2011 was one of the targets of a police operation called Dibri which was focussing on a spike in gun related incidents in London nightclubs'.
Is there a league table for violent criminals? I'd like to know how bad number 49 was? And who the hell is the bad ass motherf*cker at number 1?
Yet he has been charged with two offences. One, possession of cannabis and two, receiving stolen goods. Hardly fits in with the claim that he was one of the 48 most violent criminals.
This is a very difficult one in my opinion. The fact that the jury reached this decision should represent that it was a clean, transparent and fair trial. Despite my concerns about the outcome I accept it as it is how justice is reached in our country and I am sure the large majority of verdicts passed by a jury are correct.
However, I do not think the Police have covered themselves in glory in how they have, in my opinion, misinformed the public and in some respects demonised the victim. I feel they have tarnished themselves through some of their actions since the incident.
I dont know how you can defend him, frankly. Chizz.
Not defending him. And if you can point out where I have stated that I am, I will go back and edit.
What I *am* defending is the judicial process. I would prefer to have Duggan (and, for that matter the two unspeakably awful people who murdered Lee Rigby) face trial.
And I am sure no-one would prefer the opposite, ie the police deciding who is guilty and killing them rather than going through a court case.
The thing is the police prefer that too. They don't like shooting people and don't do it for the fun of it (unlike Duggan) but they were forced to act quickly, everything is easier in hindsight but as I said before they were in an impossible situation with no time to think.
Well if there was no gun, surely the fella has been wrongly imprisoned?
At what stage has anyone disputed the fact there was a gun ? Maybe he was shot, and the gun was removed from the taxi and placed where it was found ?
...and the point of that would be? If you are going to risk your career and liberty fitting up a no mark like Duggan you would make sure it was in his hand or very much closer than where it was eventually found.
......and the point of that would be ? Having the gun on the floor within throwing distance of Duggan is enough to show it was either chucked from the moving taxi or thrown as he got out.
You pull your trigger to put the person down surely if they truly wanted to execute Mark Duggan wouldn't he have had a bullet hole in the head
The gang violence around nth London is ridiculous with people getting shot in broad daylight and stabbed to death in streets near nursery schools
Man Dem Dem Africans
are both high profile gangs around here who are intent on killing each other if those that want justice before peace put their focus on saving these poor young boys and girls from seeing people like mark duggan as a role model in life then these things will be even rarer
as a football coach in nth London I deal with boys who are vulnerable to these people and it takes a lot of talking and motivating and putting myself out to ensure these boys go straight home from school and that their parent (not parents) know who they are with where they are going and what they will be doing
I have them training 2 times a week and playing on a Sunday, I have strict rules about behaviour when in the team and when representing their club colours
I also have told all parents that if they are having trouble with the boys in school or at home to let us know and we try to influence their lives in a positive way
I have one young black lad come to me straight from school on training days where I feed him and ensure he has a school diary with no bad comments in it and so he can discuss it with me
(his mum is so frightened that he will fall into the gang on her estate and as dad is nowhere to be seen he has no male influence in his life, My wife and I regularly fall out over some of what I find myself trying to do for him and the impact it has on my family time but I do care about the boys in my team and the area I live in )
the Black community (and I hate saying that term as I believe its the Community that need to do it not black) but they do not do enough to condone and try to stop this situation worsening, until it is one of their sons , grandsons, nephews etc get killed in either Black on black crime, Gang crime or killed by the police
I had a team from Woodgreen who only have Black players approach 3 of my boys also black to tell them they should be playing for him, and when I challenged him I was told what do I know about black youths and the issues they face
the guys heart was in the right place with his boys and his commitment to the keeping kids in his area safe and on a regime that he sees as good enough
but the fact he felt a white guy from nth London with a team that has more white kids in than black due to our catchment area having a higher demographic of white people than black couldn't help or be a positive influence in these boys lives is one of the reasons it wont ever be fixed , as there is still a feeling amongst a generation of black people within the area I live that all white people have a certain amount of racism within, the ironic bit is that they cant see that everyone themselves included have an element of racist or non correct views in them ,
The link above is a good insight as to what took place on the day. Interesting bit about the taxi slowing down and a "package" being passed through the window by a friend of Duggan's who is know to dabble in guns.
Click on the arrows to take you to the next phase.
shine if he exited that car with he gun and threw it as he exited the police marksman had a split second to decide what he was going to do, if he threw it as the car stopped and exited with his phone in his hand the ob has a split second to decide if its a gun,
if he got it wrong it is as much to do with duggans demeanor and how he exited
he exited the vehicle quickly and animated and agitated , all of which in the environment of a highly charged volatile and life threatening situation
there needs to be an amount of responsibility for all this on duggan
he got the gun he was involved in crime he exited the car in the manor he did he was a prominent and well know local violent gang member
'Det Ch Insp Mick Foote, from the Met's gang crime unit Trident, said Mark Duggan was a "confrontational and violent" member of Tottenham Man Dem, a gang associated with drug dealing and violence, the latter usually targeted at other gangs in London. He said Mark Duggan was one of the 48 most violent criminals in Europe, and in 2011 was one of the targets of a police operation called Dibri which was focussing on a spike in gun related incidents in London nightclubs'.
Is there a league table for violent criminals? I'd like to know how bad number 49 was? And who the hell is the bad ass motherf*cker at number 1?
Yet he has been charged with two offences. One, possession of cannabis and two, receiving stolen goods. Hardly fits in with the claim that he was one of the 48 most violent criminals.
This is a very difficult one in my opinion. The fact that the jury reached this decision should represent that it was a clean, transparent and fair trial. Despite my concerns about the outcome I accept it as it is how justice is reached in our country and I am sure the large majority of verdicts passed by a jury are correct.
However, I do not think the Police have covered themselves in glory in how they have, in my opinion, misinformed the public and in some respects demonised the victim. I feel they have tarnished themselves through some of their actions since the incident.
you don't have to be the one continually committing the crimes to be labelled a dangerous criminal.
no doubt he had a massive influence on the other gang members, who were causing all sorts of trouble.
'Det Ch Insp Mick Foote, from the Met's gang crime unit Trident, said Mark Duggan was a "confrontational and violent" member of Tottenham Man Dem, a gang associated with drug dealing and violence, the latter usually targeted at other gangs in London. He said Mark Duggan was one of the 48 most violent criminals in Europe, and in 2011 was one of the targets of a police operation called Dibri which was focussing on a spike in gun related incidents in London nightclubs'.
Is there a league table for violent criminals? I'd like to know how bad number 49 was? And who the hell is the bad ass motherf*cker at number 1?
Yet he has been charged with two offences. One, possession of cannabis and two, receiving stolen goods. Hardly fits in with the claim that he was one of the 48 most violent criminals.
This is a very difficult one in my opinion. The fact that the jury reached this decision should represent that it was a clean, transparent and fair trial. Despite my concerns about the outcome I accept it as it is how justice is reached in our country and I am sure the large majority of verdicts passed by a jury are correct.
However, I do not think the Police have covered themselves in glory in how they have, in my opinion, misinformed the public and in some respects demonised the victim. I feel they have tarnished themselves through some of their actions since the incident.
That comes down to the difference between intelligence and convictions really doesn't it? The fact he had relatively little in the way of previous is often the case with particularly violent or gang related criminals simply because victims will not support the case.
They had intelligence he was collecting a firearm and it was proved correct. Whether he had previous as long as your arm or was a clean as a whistle is neither here nor there.
'Det Ch Insp Mick Foote, from the Met's gang crime unit Trident, said Mark Duggan was a "confrontational and violent" member of Tottenham Man Dem, a gang associated with drug dealing and violence, the latter usually targeted at other gangs in London. He said Mark Duggan was one of the 48 most violent criminals in Europe, and in 2011 was one of the targets of a police operation called Dibri which was focussing on a spike in gun related incidents in London nightclubs'.
Is there a league table for violent criminals? I'd like to know how bad number 49 was? And who the hell is the bad ass motherf*cker at number 1?
Yet he has been charged with two offences. One, possession of cannabis and two, receiving stolen goods. Hardly fits in with the claim that he was one of the 48 most violent criminals.
This is a very difficult one in my opinion. The fact that the jury reached this decision should represent that it was a clean, transparent and fair trial. Despite my concerns about the outcome I accept it as it is how justice is reached in our country and I am sure the large majority of verdicts passed by a jury are correct.
However, I do not think the Police have covered themselves in glory in how they have, in my opinion, misinformed the public and in some respects demonised the victim. I feel they have tarnished themselves through some of their actions since the incident.
you don't have to be the one continually committing the crimes to be labelled a dangerous criminal.
no doubt he had a massive influence on the other gang members, who were causing all sorts of trouble.
Agreed. It was just an example of what the Police are allowed to put out there to influence the opinions of the public. Their claim about his extreme violence is not evidenced by any charge for such behaviour or any actual guilt being proved. Surely if he was that violent and dangerous a man there would have been enough evidence to substantiate the claim eg a previous conviction.
'Det Ch Insp Mick Foote, from the Met's gang crime unit Trident, said Mark Duggan was a "confrontational and violent" member of Tottenham Man Dem, a gang associated with drug dealing and violence, the latter usually targeted at other gangs in London. He said Mark Duggan was one of the 48 most violent criminals in Europe, and in 2011 was one of the targets of a police operation called Dibri which was focussing on a spike in gun related incidents in London nightclubs'.
Is there a league table for violent criminals? I'd like to know how bad number 49 was? And who the hell is the bad ass motherf*cker at number 1?
Yet he has been charged with two offences. One, possession of cannabis and two, receiving stolen goods. Hardly fits in with the claim that he was one of the 48 most violent criminals.
This is a very difficult one in my opinion. The fact that the jury reached this decision should represent that it was a clean, transparent and fair trial. Despite my concerns about the outcome I accept it as it is how justice is reached in our country and I am sure the large majority of verdicts passed by a jury are correct.
However, I do not think the Police have covered themselves in glory in how they have, in my opinion, misinformed the public and in some respects demonised the victim. I feel they have tarnished themselves through some of their actions since the incident.
you don't have to be the one continually committing the crimes to be labelled a dangerous criminal.
no doubt he had a massive influence on the other gang members, who were causing all sorts of trouble.
Agreed. It was just an example of what the Police are allowed to put out there to influence the opinions of the public. Their claim about his extreme violence is not evidenced by any charge for such behaviour or any actual guilt being proved. Surely if he was that violent and dangerous a man there would have been enough evidence to substantiate the claim eg a previous conviction.
People are surprised that his family would try to paint him in a good light? Might not have even known about his activity outside the house.
I think you're being a bit naive if you really think his little family didn't know he was one of the biggest players in one of the biggest London gangs, especially as he's been in the frame for murders and letting off shots in club car parks. While on the subject of his family bless em, I really felt for his aunt chanting no justice, no peace while flanked in other family members and friend with hoods up and scarves over their faces. Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family imo
I am bit confused about your obvious joy at the killing of this well known London gangsta. Not long long ago did you not start a RIP thread on the death of another well known violent London gangsta in which you stated that you and the kids that you grew up with had a sort of hero worship of this gangsta?
Is your CL profile picture a photo of a well known, albeit 'old school' , violent London gangsta from a previous time?
Given the views you have expressed in the past on here and on Charlton Loyal, when you come out with comments like 'Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family IMO', it is very hard not to come to the conclusion that you have a problem with mixed race families in the UK.
People are surprised that his family would try to paint him in a good light? Might not have even known about his activity outside the house.
I think you're being a bit naive if you really think his little family didn't know he was one of the biggest players in one of the biggest London gangs, especially as he's been in the frame for murders and letting off shots in club car parks. While on the subject of his family bless em, I really felt for his aunt chanting no justice, no peace while flanked in other family members and friend with hoods up and scarves over their faces. Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family imo
I am bit confused about your obvious joy at the killing of this well known London gangsta. Not long long ago did you not start a RIP thread on the death of another well known violent London gangsta in which you stated that you and the kids that you grew up with had a sort of hero worship of this gangsta?
Is your CL profile picture a photo of a well known, albeit 'old school' , violent London gangsta from a previous time?
Given the views you have expressed in the past on here and on Charlton Loyal, when you come out with comments like 'Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family IMO', it is very hard not to come to the conclusion that you have a problem with mixed race families in the UK.
I just think they are strong and emotive words that will lead to pre judging. I'm not saying whether it is true or not just if its fair an appropriate action. And it leads to conjecture and speculation about someone who cannot respond.
'Det Ch Insp Mick Foote, from the Met's gang crime unit Trident, said Mark Duggan was a "confrontational and violent" member of Tottenham Man Dem, a gang associated with drug dealing and violence, the latter usually targeted at other gangs in London. He said Mark Duggan was one of the 48 most violent criminals in Europe, and in 2011 was one of the targets of a police operation called Dibri which was focussing on a spike in gun related incidents in London nightclubs'.
Is there a league table for violent criminals? I'd like to know how bad number 49 was? And who the hell is the bad ass motherf*cker at number 1?
Yet he has been charged with two offences. One, possession of cannabis and two, receiving stolen goods. Hardly fits in with the claim that he was one of the 48 most violent criminals.
This is a very difficult one in my opinion. The fact that the jury reached this decision should represent that it was a clean, transparent and fair trial. Despite my concerns about the outcome I accept it as it is how justice is reached in our country and I am sure the large majority of verdicts passed by a jury are correct.
However, I do not think the Police have covered themselves in glory in how they have, in my opinion, misinformed the public and in some respects demonised the victim. I feel they have tarnished themselves through some of their actions since the incident.
you don't have to be the one continually committing the crimes to be labelled a dangerous criminal.
no doubt he had a massive influence on the other gang members, who were causing all sorts of trouble.
Agreed. It was just an example of what the Police are allowed to put out there to influence the opinions of the public. Their claim about his extreme violence is not evidenced by any charge for such behaviour or any actual guilt being proved. Surely if he was that violent and dangerous a man there would have been enough evidence to substantiate the claim eg a previous conviction.
Which planet are you on? Gangsters don't get caught easily because there are no witnesses prepared to risk their life testifying. Al Capone was clearly not a murderer and only a small time gangster as he was only ever convicted of carrying a gun, contempt of court and tax evasion.
too be fair sparrows there are coaches and mgrs. across the country that do the same , there is just too many kids with parents or parent that do not care what their children are doing or who with
or like his uncle he was involved in running the gamg he was in not nesc carrying out the dirty work himself
Well then this is what should be said. To be labelled as violent is a serious claim. Hard to take it as fact when there is nothing proven thus far. Seems to suggest you can say anything about anyone without any real facts to back it up.
You pull your trigger to put the person down surely if they truly wanted to execute Mark Duggan wouldn't he have had a bullet hole in the head
The gang violence around nth London is ridiculous with people getting shot in broad daylight and stabbed to death in streets near nursery schools
Man Dem Dem Africans
are both high profile gangs around here who are intent on killing each other if those that want justice before peace put their focus on saving these poor young boys and girls from seeing people like mark duggan as a role model in life then these things will be even rarer
as a football coach in nth London I deal with boys who are vulnerable to these people and it takes a lot of talking and motivating and putting myself out to ensure these boys go straight home from school and that their parent (not parents) know who they are with where they are going and what they will be doing
I have them training 2 times a week and playing on a Sunday, I have strict rules about behaviour when in the team and when representing their club colours
I also have told all parents that if they are having trouble with the boys in school or at home to let us know and we try to influence their lives in a positive way
I have one young black lad come to me straight from school on training days where I feed him and ensure he has a school diary with no bad comments in it and so he can discuss it with me
(his mum is so frightened that he will fall into the gang on her estate and as dad is nowhere to be seen he has no male influence in his life, My wife and I regularly fall out over some of what I find myself trying to do for him and the impact it has on my family time but I do care about the boys in my team and the area I live in )
the Black community (and I hate saying that term as I believe its the Community that need to do it not black) but they do not do enough to condone and try to stop this situation worsening, until it is one of their sons , grandsons, nephews etc get killed in either Black on black crime, Gang crime or killed by the police
I had a team from Woodgreen who only have Black players approach 3 of my boys also black to tell them they should be playing for him, and when I challenged him I was told what do I know about black youths and the issues they face
the guys heart was in the right place with his boys and his commitment to the keeping kids in his area safe and on a regime that he sees as good enough
but the fact he felt a white guy from nth London with a team that has more white kids in than black due to our catchment area having a higher demographic of white people than black couldn't help or be a positive influence in these boys lives is one of the reasons it wont ever be fixed , as there is still a feeling amongst a generation of black people within the area I live that all white people have a certain amount of racism within, the ironic bit is that they cant see that everyone themselves included have an element of racist or non correct views in them ,
Absolutely inspiring NLA. With people like you in the community, the world's a better.place. that is a great story and so i hope your.team does well and more importantly the boys benefit from the pastoral care you seem to be putting into your management
too be fair sparrows there are coaches and mgrs. across the country that do the same , there is just too many kids with parents or parent that do not care what their children are doing or who with
Very true, but inspiring none the less and something I'd aspire to emulate with regards to running a football team and helping kids etc.
our boys/girl care and want to play for enfield and when representing them they are good boys and a girl
they also respect the coaches and the officials and they are not allowed to talk street with words like
dem dat dis
in the hours we have them, simple rules followed up with sit ups and running for failure to adhere , if you continually fail to observe the conduct rules you are out of the starting 11 if you fail to see that as punishment enough you miss a game maximum of 3 if you miss three in the season for conduct in the team you are out
Like to echo what others say on here about the good you are doing. What you provide is vital and although I am sure you may not see it or recognise it, the children and parents appreciate it.
Your point about the other coach believing that because you are not black you cannot understand the issues black youngsters face is all too common. In the school I work in we do employ black males and mentors to work with our disaffected pupils. However, they work with pupils of all ethnicities - the behaviour is the issue for us, not the colour. As long as you are supportive and understanding, but also have clear boundaries and high expectations then colour is not the defining characteristic of your impact; your own words and actions are.
We also try to ensure that our mentors are older males who have life skills and experiences to pass on and who share our determination that all pupils behave within a system that is fair and clear, but one that also has consequences for persistent poor behaviour. Support is unwavering but so is aspiration.
People are surprised that his family would try to paint him in a good light? Might not have even known about his activity outside the house.
I think you're being a bit naive if you really think his little family didn't know he was one of the biggest players in one of the biggest London gangs, especially as he's been in the frame for murders and letting off shots in club car parks. While on the subject of his family bless em, I really felt for his aunt chanting no justice, no peace while flanked in other family members and friend with hoods up and scarves over their faces. Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family imo
I am bit confused about your obvious joy at the killing of this well known London gangsta. Not long long ago did you not start a RIP thread on the death of another well known violent London gangsta in which you stated that you and the kids that you grew up with had a sort of hero worship of this gangsta?
Is your CL profile picture a photo of a well known, albeit 'old school' , violent London gangsta from a previous time?
Given the views you have expressed in the past on here and on Charlton Loyal, when you come out with comments like 'Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family IMO', it is very hard not to come to the conclusion that you have a problem with mixed race families in the UK.
People are surprised that his family would try to paint him in a good light? Might not have even known about his activity outside the house.
I think you're being a bit naive if you really think his little family didn't know he was one of the biggest players in one of the biggest London gangs, especially as he's been in the frame for murders and letting off shots in club car parks. While on the subject of his family bless em, I really felt for his aunt chanting no justice, no peace while flanked in other family members and friend with hoods up and scarves over their faces. Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family imo
I am bit confused about your obvious joy at the killing of this well known London gangsta. Not long long ago did you not start a RIP thread on the death of another well known violent London gangsta in which you stated that you and the kids that you grew up with had a sort of hero worship of this gangsta?
Is your CL profile picture a photo of a well known, albeit 'old school' , violent London gangsta from a previous time?
Given the views you have expressed in the past on here and on Charlton Loyal, when you come out with comments like 'Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family IMO', it is very hard not to come to the conclusion that you have a problem with mixed race families in the UK.
Bore off
I was actually hoping you would deny the accusations :-(
u13 , I had a team from 5 yrs until 10 yrs but had to give it up when I took on my last role at coca cola , I handed it on and kept a coaching position but fell out with the mgr over his football ideas or lack of them, I moved my son away and joined enfield, and have helped coach them since last season, moving into a more prominent role this season, a fair few of my old team came with me ,
so for atleast 7 of this squad they have been with me since 5 , this season the hormones are in play so its a lot of tough love
Comments
This is a very difficult one in my opinion. The fact that the jury reached this decision should represent that it was a clean, transparent and fair trial. Despite my concerns about the outcome I accept it as it is how justice is reached in our country and I am sure the large majority of verdicts passed by a jury are correct.
However, I do not think the Police have covered themselves in glory in how they have, in my opinion, misinformed the public and in some respects demonised the victim. I feel they have tarnished themselves through some of their actions since the incident.
The link above is a good insight as to what took place on the day. Interesting bit about the taxi slowing down and a "package" being passed through the window by a friend of Duggan's who is know to dabble in guns.
Click on the arrows to take you to the next phase.
The police just had that split second reaction which proved tragic but I can certainly understand why they acted as they did.
if he got it wrong it is as much to do with duggans demeanor and how he exited
he exited the vehicle quickly and animated and agitated , all of which in the environment of a highly charged volatile and life threatening situation
there needs to be an amount of responsibility for all this on duggan
he got the gun
he was involved in crime
he exited the car in the manor he did
he was a prominent and well know local violent gang member
no doubt he had a massive influence on the other gang members, who were causing all sorts of trouble.
Duggan = Scum - good riddance
Police = Generally wankers
They had intelligence he was collecting a firearm and it was proved correct. Whether he had previous as long as your arm or was a clean as a whistle is neither here nor there.
Is your CL profile picture a photo of a well known, albeit 'old school' , violent London gangsta from a previous time?
Given the views you have expressed in the past on here and on Charlton Loyal, when you come out with comments like 'Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family IMO', it is very hard not to come to the conclusion that you have a problem with mixed race families in the UK.
our boys/girl care and want to play for enfield and when representing them they are good boys and a girl
they also respect the coaches and the officials and they are not allowed to talk street with words like
dem
dat
dis
in the hours we have them, simple rules followed up with sit ups and running for failure to adhere , if you continually fail to observe the conduct rules you are out of the starting 11 if you fail to see that as punishment enough you miss a game maximum of 3 if you miss three in the season for conduct in the team you are out
Like to echo what others say on here about the good you are doing. What you provide is vital and although I am sure you may not see it or recognise it, the children and parents appreciate it.
Your point about the other coach believing that because you are not black you cannot understand the issues black youngsters face is all too common. In the school I work in we do employ black males and mentors to work with our disaffected pupils. However, they work with pupils of all ethnicities - the behaviour is the issue for us, not the colour. As long as you are supportive and understanding, but also have clear boundaries and high expectations then colour is not the defining characteristic of your impact; your own words and actions are.
We also try to ensure that our mentors are older males who have life skills and experiences to pass on and who share our determination that all pupils behave within a system that is fair and clear, but one that also has consequences for persistent poor behaviour. Support is unwavering but so is aspiration.
Keep up the good work.
so for atleast 7 of this squad they have been with me since 5 , this season the hormones are in play so its a lot of tough love
I have known him since school and I don't agree with the sentence red stated