I think it is in situations like this where our media does us a great disservice. We surely deserve a very full explanation from newspapers and particularly TV of what precisely the jury were asked to consider in the light of the relevant law. I have seen nothing anywhere on this topic. Do they think we are too stupid/have too tiny an attention span to take on board this information? Law is complex, yes, but the jury would have been directed very carefully by the Coroner as to what hurdles would have to have been cleared in order to reach each of the possible verdicts. For example, and I admit I got this from wiki, for a verdict of unlawful killing to have been reached the jury would have to have been sure that there was the appropriate standard of proof to show that an unlawful killing was beyond reasonable doubt. This is when the evidence was so overwhelmingly obvious that death would result, that no other thing is taken into account. A verdict of unlawful killing would have lead to a murder investigation by the police. But does anyone (except the Duggan family, who may have been badly advised by their lawyer) think that there was really "malice aforethought" in the police actions?
As an aside, I think we need to do away with the confusion of "manslaughter" and introduce an american style system of first and second-degree murders in homicide cases. It would make the whole process much easier for everyone to understand. "Book him Danno - murder one" as McGarrett used to say on Hawaii Five-0.
Policing isn't an ad hominem exercise. I'm sure Duggan was a complete s**t but this is not about whether he deserved to die; it's about the protocols of police activity in potential combat situations. Clearly someone in an extremely privileged position (legal gun-carrier) screwed up, and even more clearly, the issue was subsequently fudged. For nobody to be punished as a result of this appalling and catastrophic error is terrible, and THAT is what is causing this fresh torrent of outrage.
The riots at the time weren't really about Duggan; they were perhaps two parts disaffection, two parts alienation and one part pack mentality
The first riot was about Duggan but the subsequent ones were pure greed, they took the opportunity to rob and get away with it. One hooded hooligan was asked by a reporter whilst running from a raid "do you think this helps get justice for mark Duggan?" He replied "who da f£&) is Mark Duggan?" And carried on running with his trainers in his hands!
Krishnan Guru Murty on channel 4 was shitting himself during the interviews outside court but to be fair to him i think he could'nt believe some of the stuff he was hearing.
So, it doesn't seem as if any recompense will be coming the way of the Duggan family. I expect their legal advisers will be leaving in droves. bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32041119
Reading back through this thread it's with sadness I report that the boy in question left our team and joined another, he has since been excluded from school and has already became known to the police locally, his mum has no idea how to change his path, he shows me total respect when our paths cross and is an adorable young man when in the correct company, when away from that he is a rude and unruly trouble maker who will end up in a lot of trouble, he is physically developed for his age and unfortunately uses that size as a thing of fear to others
Real shame that he is now in the net for thugs that aspire to be nothing other than a bad man one day to manipulate,
Real shame, but that's the path these young guys face daily and without positive male influence in their lives is going to be just another statistic we will read about
Been getting me moneys worth off the BBC News website and happened acrossed this, hope those currently coughing up for the license fee are happy with what their dough is being spunked on
Ain't paid for a TV licence in about 3 years when they knock the door I just call them pedos say I've got kids n the house and ain't happy for them to be on my property and shut the door.
Ain't paid for a TV licence in about 3 years when they knock the door I just call them pedos say I've got kids n the house and ain't happy for them to be on my property and shut the door.
Been getting me moneys worth off the BBC News website and happened acrossed this, hope those currently coughing up for the license fee are happy with what their dough is being spunked on
I disagree. A whole lotta strictly come bake off needs something for other parts of the audience. There is a lot of things that 'waste money', the football pundits for a start, so to highlight only this is perhaps not considering the wider picture.
Been getting me moneys worth off the BBC News website and happened acrossed this, hope those currently coughing up for the license fee are happy with what their dough is being spunked on
I disagree. A whole lotta strictly come bake off needs something for other parts of the audience. There is a lot of things that 'waste money', the football pundits for a start, so to highlight only this is perhaps not considering the wider picture.
Oh no, I reckon they should sack most of their staff too Seth pal, both in front of and behind the camaras, starting with the DG working down through middle management. But, my point regarding this particular subject is that considering it was the catalyst for probably the worst riots London has ever witnessed, it's a very bad idea to dramatise it at this present time.
IMO, the money would be better spent trying to get Jeremy Clarckson back onto our (your) screens.......
Ain't paid for a TV licence in about 3 years when they knock the door I just call them pedos say I've got kids n the house and ain't happy for them to be on my property and shut the door.
You must make your mother very proud.
Yeah she is thank you but you don't know me so fuck off with your comments
Ain't paid for a TV licence in about 3 years when they knock the door I just call them pedos say I've got kids n the house and ain't happy for them to be on my property and shut the door.
You must make your mother very proud.
Yeah she is thank you but you don't know me so fuck off with your comments
Comments
We surely deserve a very full explanation from newspapers and particularly TV of what precisely the jury were asked to consider in the light of the relevant law. I have seen nothing anywhere on this topic. Do they think we are too stupid/have too tiny an attention span to take on board this information?
Law is complex, yes, but the jury would have been directed very carefully by the Coroner as to what hurdles would have to have been cleared in order to reach each of the possible verdicts. For example, and I admit I got this from wiki, for a verdict of unlawful killing to have been reached the jury would have to have been sure that there was the appropriate standard of proof to show that an unlawful killing was beyond reasonable doubt. This is when the evidence was so overwhelmingly obvious that death would result, that no other thing is taken into account.
A verdict of unlawful killing would have lead to a murder investigation by the police. But does anyone (except the Duggan family, who may have been badly advised by their lawyer) think that there was really "malice aforethought" in the police actions?
As an aside, I think we need to do away with the confusion of "manslaughter" and introduce an american style system of first and second-degree murders in homicide cases. It would make the whole process much easier for everyone to understand.
"Book him Danno - murder one" as McGarrett used to say on Hawaii Five-0.
Real shame that he is now in the net for thugs that aspire to be nothing other than a bad man one day to manipulate,
Real shame, but that's the path these young guys face daily and without positive male influence in their lives is going to be just another statistic we will read about
***BBC LINK WARNING***
A whole lotta strictly come bake off needs something for other parts of the audience.
There is a lot of things that 'waste money', the football pundits for a start, so to highlight only this is perhaps not considering the wider picture.
IMO, the money would be better spent trying to get Jeremy Clarckson back onto our (your) screens.......