People are surprised that his family would try to paint him in a good light? Might not have even known about his activity outside the house.
I think you're being a bit naive if you really think his little family didn't know he was one of the biggest players in one of the biggest London gangs, especially as he's been in the frame for murders and letting off shots in club car parks. While on the subject of his family bless em, I really felt for his aunt chanting no justice, no peace while flanked in other family members and friend with hoods up and scarves over their faces. Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family imo
I am bit confused about your obvious joy at the killing of this well known London gangsta. Not long long ago did you not start a RIP thread on the death of another well known violent London gangsta in which you stated that you and the kids that you grew up with had a sort of hero worship of this gangsta?
Is your CL profile picture a photo of a well known, albeit 'old school' , violent London gangsta from a previous time?
Given the views you have expressed in the past on here and on Charlton Loyal, when you come out with comments like 'Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family IMO', it is very hard not to come to the conclusion that you have a problem with mixed race families in the UK.
Bore off
I was actually hoping you would deny the accusations :-(
It ain't the first time he/she has stifled debate on here with completely un-related bollocks. What am I meant to do? Anyone that knows me personally on here knows that those accusations are not true, its up to anyone else to make their own mind up luv. I really should spend less time on here any way to be perfectly honest as it ain't good for me health and makes me new kidney hurt a bit...
its not modesty Sadie , I am a football coach of the team my boy plays in, and I love that role, in order for me to do my best in that role I have to get to understand the boys/girl and what they are like as young people, to do that you need to care about them and want them to succeed at first the only thing you care about is their success on the pitch but then you build relationships with the families and the kids and you care about them as young people, my son receives similar treatment from the other coaches we all care about the boys and unfortunately are only too aware of what is out there on the streets of London that they can fall foul of
would I want someone to not notice my boy was wavering and falling into the trap that no one cared and he didn't care if I was not around
no not at all , I would hope people invested time into him like I do with my team
the saddest thing for me is I spend 3 hours training them midweek and they are with me 3 hours on a sunday
that's more time spent with an adult in waking hours at football than some get at home ,
I have had in the past 3 boys that did not see their mum or dad really until Saturday , they get themselves and a sibling ready for school because mum and dad are out I wish I could say working but only 1 of them does that
and they don't come home until these kids I would hope are in bed , one boy told me his mum and dad went out and his dad never came back and his mum came back 2 days later
they had gone with their church to Lourdes to pray and left a 12 yr old boy in the safety of his 14 yr old sister, its society that's gone tits up
with both parents needing to work to keep afloat, or parents splitting up and living off single parent family support that has led to the issues facing the young boys and girls of today , that and kids having kids and not giving two shits about it
People are surprised that his family would try to paint him in a good light? Might not have even known about his activity outside the house.
I think you're being a bit naive if you really think his little family didn't know he was one of the biggest players in one of the biggest London gangs, especially as he's been in the frame for murders and letting off shots in club car parks. While on the subject of his family bless em, I really felt for his aunt chanting no justice, no peace while flanked in other family members and friend with hoods up and scarves over their faces. Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family imo
I am bit confused about your obvious joy at the killing of this well known London gangsta. Not long long ago did you not start a RIP thread on the death of another well known violent London gangsta in which you stated that you and the kids that you grew up with had a sort of hero worship of this gangsta?
Is your CL profile picture a photo of a well known, albeit 'old school' , violent London gangsta from a previous time?
Given the views you have expressed in the past on here and on Charlton Loyal, when you come out with comments like 'Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family IMO', it is very hard not to come to the conclusion that you have a problem with mixed race families in the UK.
Bore off
I was actually hoping you would deny the accusations :-(
It ain't the first time he/she has stifled debate on here with completely un-related bollocks. What am I meant to do? Anyone that knows me personally on here knows that those accusations are not true, its up to anyone else to make their own mind up luv. I really should spend less time on here any way to be perfectly honest as it ain't good for me health and makes me new kidney hurt a bit...
Actually, it's not unrelated bollocks.
You did start a thread about the death of a' celebrity' criminal,you did say how you and your friends looked up to him as an old school villain,your avatar is of Biggs and you certainly posted on Charlton Loyal,as we both well know...
If these are the 'accusations' you talk of,then they are well founded.
The one concerning 'mixed race families' is specious to say the least.
People are surprised that his family would try to paint him in a good light? Might not have even known about his activity outside the house.
I think you're being a bit naive if you really think his little family didn't know he was one of the biggest players in one of the biggest London gangs, especially as he's been in the frame for murders and letting off shots in club car parks. While on the subject of his family bless em, I really felt for his aunt chanting no justice, no peace while flanked in other family members and friend with hoods up and scarves over their faces. Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family imo
I am bit confused about your obvious joy at the killing of this well known London gangsta. Not long long ago did you not start a RIP thread on the death of another well known violent London gangsta in which you stated that you and the kids that you grew up with had a sort of hero worship of this gangsta?
Is your CL profile picture a photo of a well known, albeit 'old school' , violent London gangsta from a previous time?
Given the views you have expressed in the past on here and on Charlton Loyal, when you come out with comments like 'Sums up everything wrong with Britain that family IMO', it is very hard not to come to the conclusion that you have a problem with mixed race families in the UK.
Bore off
I was actually hoping you would deny the accusations :-(
It ain't the first time he/she has stifled debate on here with completely un-related bollocks. What am I meant to do? Anyone that knows me personally on here knows that those accusations are not true, its up to anyone else to make their own mind up luv. I really should spend less time on here any way to be perfectly honest as it ain't good for me health and makes me new kidney hurt a bit...
Actually, it's not unrelated bollocks.
You did start a thread about the death of a' celebrity' criminal,you did say how your friends and you looked up to him as an old school villain,your avatar is of Biggs and you certainly posted on Charlton Loyal,as we both well know...
If these are the 'accusations' you talk of,then they are well founded.
The one concerning 'mixed race families' is specious to say the least.
Not read your whole post tbh Redskin, but regarding the black / white / mixed race thing, I said the same of Raoul Moat, if you go around shooting people the chances are you'll end up getting shot yourself, preferably dead. It ain't got f all to do with what colour they are.
Regarding Ronnie Biggs, there's no comparison imo.
If you want to continue this debate, pm me so we don't clog up this thread as its been a healthy discussion up till now.
Had this person a history of carrying guns? If the answer is yes, and I believe that is the case - then it is immaterial whether he had a gun on him at the time. Imagine a scenario where he had a gun and a innocent was caught up in it and killed. The police would have been criticsised for not acting decisively given what they knew he was likely to have a fire arm. We shouldn't be rejoicing that he got shot, but we should be understanding as to why it may have happened. If he never carried guns - then the Police still have a case to answer IMO - but that is not my understanding.
Like I said in an earlier post I have spoken to someone who knew Mark Duggan and the reason he had so little regarding previous convictions was because he was too canny to do a lot of stuff himself. Believe me, he was very close to the top of his gang tree.
Funny how some of the people spreading accusations hardly ever post on football related threads.
Some real shit stirrers on here.
Are you referring to me?
It was more to Red_in_Se8 in this instance. A quick look at his comments seem to show he saves his appearances for the more risqué subjects.
I actually didn't agree with Big_Robs stance when it come to Ronnie Biggs.
However, he's a good poster on here and the fact that nla, who just a couple of posts before explained his own relationship with black kids in his football team, stated that Rob doesn't have a problem with mixed race families should put the accusation to bed.
Stating that you think it's plausible isn't far from shit stirring either.
Funny how some of the people spreading accusations hardly ever post on football related threads.
Some real shit stirrers on here.
Are you referring to me?
It was more to Red_in_Se8 in this instance. A quick look at his comments seem to show he saves his appearances for the more risqué subjects.
I actually didn't agree with Big_Robs stance when it come to Ronnie Biggs.
However, he's a good poster on here and the fact that nla, who just a couple of posts before explained his own relationship with black kids in his football team, stated that Rob doesn't have a problem with mixed race families should put the accusation to bed.
Stating that you think it's plausible isn't far from shit stirring either.
Funny how some of the people spreading accusations hardly ever post on football related threads.
Some real shit stirrers on here.
Are you referring to me?
It was more to Red_in_Se8 in this instance. A quick look at his comments seem to show he saves his appearances for the more risqué subjects.
I actually didn't agree with Big_Robs stance when it come to Ronnie Biggs.
However, he's a good poster on here and the fact that nla, who just a couple of posts before explained his own relationship with black kids in his football team, stated that Rob doesn't have a problem with mixed race families should put the accusation to bed.
Stating that you think it's plausible isn't far from shit stirring either.
Please tell me where I stated it was 'plausible'.
Redskin: probably about time you set a good example to that Washington NFL team and changed your name to "Native American"! :-)
Funny how some of the people spreading accusations hardly ever post on football related threads.
Some real shit stirrers on here.
Are you referring to me?
It was more to Red_in_Se8 in this instance. A quick look at his comments seem to show he saves his appearances for the more risqué subjects.
I actually didn't agree with Big_Robs stance when it come to Ronnie Biggs.
However, he's a good poster on here and the fact that nla, who just a couple of posts before explained his own relationship with black kids in his football team, stated that Rob doesn't have a problem with mixed race families should put the accusation to bed.
Stating that you think it's plausible isn't far from shit stirring either.
Please tell me where I stated it was 'plausible'.
Redskin: probably about time you set a good example to that Washington NFL team and changed your name to "Native American"! :-)
i know the police were on an intelligence led operation with this lad and obviously prepared .....but they can shoot to demobilise if they want to ..for instance Lee Rigbys Killers...
What really happened when Duggan was shot will never be ascertained beyond doubt. One person's sworn evidence may be regarded by another witness as a fairy story and a third witnesses's evidence as to what happened may be totally at odds with other witnesses. Such is the justice system .. you say blue, I say violet etc etc What must be a major worry to the Metropolitan Police Force (or is it Authority), 99% of whose officers I am sure do a fantastic job without being biased, racist, homophobic and what ever other negatives they may be accused of, are two stories hitting the press headlines today. The first in the Independent, reveals that a major inquiry held back in the early 2000s, found that up to eighty detectives were involved with major organised criminals, supplying them with sensitive information and helping to cover up major crimes. The newspaper opines that there was enough evidence of wrongdoing to charge many officers with corruption at the very least. As of today, exactly none have been so charged. The second story is of course 'plebgate' in which an officer has admitted to totally fabricating evidence against a member of the government. Not just any old member of the public, but a major(ish) public figure. Many might think that if the Police (or at least an individual policeman) have or has the temerity to go so far, can the word of any policeman be trusted in any court of law or inquiry ?. These happenings are so serious that they potentially undermine the rule of and trust in the law of this country. Perhaps this is why the Commissioner of the London force has felt it necessary to offer an almost grovelling series of apologetic and placatory statements aimed at loosening tensions amongst the Duggan family and their nefarious admirers, hangers-on and wannabes. Such statements from top officials surely give some semblance of credence to the opinion held by many that Duggan was 'legally murdered' and that the Police cannot be trusted in anything they do.
The UK Police forces must do their utmost to cleanse their own organisations of any corruption and bad practice and swiftly bring any wrong doers to justice and restore absolute trust in the word and credibility of all policemen. Then when someone else is 'justifiably' shot dead, there will be less controversy and the word of the hard pressed officers will be more readily taken as the truth. We, the public, cannot let the ridiculously stupid and illegal actions of a few bent old bill undermine the great work that is done day in and day out by their straight and hard working colleagues in all kind of situations from chasing and jailing evil drug dealers to helping little old ladies cross the road.
You pull your trigger to put the person down surely if they truly wanted to execute Mark Duggan wouldn't he have had a bullet hole in the head
The gang violence around nth London is ridiculous with people getting shot in broad daylight and stabbed to death in streets near nursery schools
Man Dem Dem Africans
are both high profile gangs around here who are intent on killing each other if those that want justice before peace put their focus on saving these poor young boys and girls from seeing people like mark duggan as a role model in life then these things will be even rarer
as a football coach in nth London I deal with boys who are vulnerable to these people and it takes a lot of talking and motivating and putting myself out to ensure these boys go straight home from school and that their parent (not parents) know who they are with where they are going and what they will be doing
I have them training 2 times a week and playing on a Sunday, I have strict rules about behaviour when in the team and when representing their club colours
I also have told all parents that if they are having trouble with the boys in school or at home to let us know and we try to influence their lives in a positive way
I have one young black lad come to me straight from school on training days where I feed him and ensure he has a school diary with no bad comments in it and so he can discuss it with me
(his mum is so frightened that he will fall into the gang on her estate and as dad is nowhere to be seen he has no male influence in his life, My wife and I regularly fall out over some of what I find myself trying to do for him and the impact it has on my family time but I do care about the boys in my team and the area I live in )
the Black community (and I hate saying that term as I believe its the Community that need to do it not black) but they do not do enough to condone and try to stop this situation worsening, until it is one of their sons , grandsons, nephews etc get killed in either Black on black crime, Gang crime or killed by the police
I had a team from Woodgreen who only have Black players approach 3 of my boys also black to tell them they should be playing for him, and when I challenged him I was told what do I know about black youths and the issues they face
the guys heart was in the right place with his boys and his commitment to the keeping kids in his area safe and on a regime that he sees as good enough
but the fact he felt a white guy from nth London with a team that has more white kids in than black due to our catchment area having a higher demographic of white people than black couldn't help or be a positive influence in these boys lives is one of the reasons it wont ever be fixed , as there is still a feeling amongst a generation of black people within the area I live that all white people have a certain amount of racism within, the ironic bit is that they cant see that everyone themselves included have an element of racist or non correct views in them ,
Absolutely inspiring NLA. With people like you in the community, the world's a better.place. that is a great story and so i hope your.team does well and more importantly the boys benefit from the pastoral care you seem to be putting into your management
Agree 100%. Fantastic post NLA.
My brother runs a team in SE neck of the woods, he has no such issues but I will send him this. Top stuff.
Not a claim to fame or brag but my brother was friends with Mark at one point (when he was on a very downward spiral) I also met mark on odd occasion he wasn't a nice man or the family man that his family are trying to portray. He was involved in a lot but never convicted due to a lot of witness and people in the know never stepping forward due to being scared.
I haven't read this whole thread but I suspect most know he was no angel, RIP but the world is a safer/better place without him.
Why a vigil at all? The notion that `most of the people in England know he was executed' is tosh and shows how outside of normal society these people are.
Policing isn't an ad hominem exercise. I'm sure Duggan was a complete s**t but this is not about whether he deserved to die; it's about the protocols of police activity in potential combat situations. Clearly someone in an extremely privileged position (legal gun-carrier) screwed up, and even more clearly, the issue was subsequently fudged. For nobody to be punished as a result of this appalling and catastrophic error is terrible, and THAT is what is causing this fresh torrent of outrage.
The riots at the time weren't really about Duggan; they were perhaps two parts disaffection, two parts alienation and one part pack mentality
Saying the OB screwed up is wrong if it was an unlawful killing you can say that it was a lawful shooting
No one can prove one way or the other as to wether duggan threw the . /|.._______________/\_ / '—_______——____|] /_==0;;;;;;;;___./ ), —.(_(__) / // (..) ), ——" //___// on exit or before
He exited the vehicle in a fast and provocative way with something in his hand
Sorry about the pic every time I write the word for a G*n it happens
Policing isn't an ad hominem exercise. I'm sure Duggan was a complete s**t but this is not about whether he deserved to die; it's about the protocols of police activity in potential combat situations. Clearly someone in an extremely privileged position (legal gun-carrier) screwed up, and even more clearly, the issue was subsequently fudged. For nobody to be punished as a result of this appalling and catastrophic error is terrible, and THAT is what is causing this fresh torrent of outrage.
The riots at the time weren't really about Duggan; they were perhaps two parts disaffection, two parts alienation and one part pack mentality
I think you understate the role of pack mentality to be fair Leuth. There were just too many people out there taking the opportunity to go on the rob or smash things up who had no link to and either didn't know or didn't care about the Duggan shooting. Lots of people dislike or distrust the police, or, if you like, "The Man", but to accredit 4/5 of the riots to disaffection and alienation is ludicrous in my opinion.
Policing isn't an ad hominem exercise. I'm sure Duggan was a complete s**t but this is not about whether he deserved to die; it's about the protocols of police activity in potential combat situations. Clearly someone in an extremely privileged position (legal gun-carrier) screwed up, and even more clearly, the issue was subsequently fudged. For nobody to be punished as a result of this appalling and catastrophic error is terrible, and THAT is what is causing this fresh torrent of outrage.
The riots at the time weren't really about Duggan; they were perhaps two parts disaffection, two parts alienation and one part pack mentality
You're right about the riots. They may have started in Tottenham because of Duggan but it just gave every low life arsehole a chance to come out and cause havoc. I doubt those who burnt down Reeves Corner even knew who Duggan was. Hopefully lessons have been learnt and if it kicks off again they'll just spray the tw*ts with rubber bullets.
At the end of the day, it was a jury of the public who declared this as legal. I could understand the anger had a Police commission come to this conclusion, but in a nation of police haters it seems they finally got some support from the public over how difficult their job is
Comments
You are an inspiration with what you do, well done and stop being so modest.
Compare this to the USA, where 8 have been killed in the past 9 days.
would I want someone to not notice my boy was wavering and falling into the trap that no one cared and he didn't care if I was not around
no not at all , I would hope people invested time into him like I do with my team
the saddest thing for me is I spend 3 hours training them midweek and they are with me 3 hours on a sunday
that's more time spent with an adult in waking hours at football than some get at home ,
I have had in the past 3 boys that did not see their mum or dad really until Saturday , they get themselves and a sibling ready for school because mum and dad are out I wish I could say working but only 1 of them does that
and they don't come home until these kids I would hope are in bed , one boy told me his mum and dad went out and his dad never came back and his mum came back 2 days later
they had gone with their church to Lourdes to pray and left a 12 yr old boy in the safety of his 14 yr old sister, its society that's gone tits up
with both parents needing to work to keep afloat, or parents splitting up and living off single parent family support that has led to the issues facing the young boys and girls of today , that and kids having kids and not giving two shits about it
You did start a thread about the death of a' celebrity' criminal,you did say how you and your friends looked up to him as an old school villain,your avatar is of Biggs and you certainly posted on Charlton Loyal,as we both well know...
If these are the 'accusations' you talk of,then they are well founded.
The one concerning 'mixed race families' is specious to say the least.
Regarding Ronnie Biggs, there's no comparison imo.
If you want to continue this debate, pm me so we don't clog up this thread as its been a healthy discussion up till now.
By the way @Redskin, do you live in SE8?
Some real shit stirrers on here.
I actually didn't agree with Big_Robs stance when it come to Ronnie Biggs.
However, he's a good poster on here and the fact that nla, who just a couple of posts before explained his own relationship with black kids in his football team, stated that Rob doesn't have a problem with mixed race families should put the accusation to bed.
Stating that you think it's plausible isn't far from shit stirring either.
What must be a major worry to the Metropolitan Police Force (or is it Authority), 99% of whose officers I am sure do a fantastic job without being biased, racist, homophobic and what ever other negatives they may be accused of, are two stories hitting the press headlines today. The first in the Independent, reveals that a major inquiry held back in the early 2000s, found that up to eighty detectives were involved with major organised criminals, supplying them with sensitive information and helping to cover up major crimes. The newspaper opines that there was enough evidence of wrongdoing to charge many officers with corruption at the very least. As of today, exactly none have been so charged. The second story is of course 'plebgate' in which an officer has admitted to totally fabricating evidence against a member of the government. Not just any old member of the public, but a major(ish) public figure. Many might think that if the Police (or at least an individual policeman) have or has the temerity to go so far, can the word of any policeman be trusted in any court of law or inquiry ?.
These happenings are so serious that they potentially undermine the rule of and trust in the law of this country.
Perhaps this is why the Commissioner of the London force has felt it necessary to offer an almost grovelling series of apologetic and placatory statements aimed at loosening tensions amongst the Duggan family and their nefarious admirers, hangers-on and wannabes. Such statements from top officials surely give some semblance of credence to the opinion held by many that Duggan was 'legally murdered' and that the Police cannot be trusted in anything they do.
The UK Police forces must do their utmost to cleanse their own organisations of any corruption and bad practice and swiftly bring any wrong doers to justice and restore absolute trust in the word and credibility of all policemen. Then when someone else is 'justifiably' shot dead, there will be less controversy and the word of the hard pressed officers will be more readily taken as the truth.
We, the public, cannot let the ridiculously stupid and illegal actions of a few bent old bill undermine the great work that is done day in and day out by their straight and hard working colleagues in all kind of situations from chasing and jailing evil drug dealers to helping little old ladies cross the road.
My brother runs a team in SE neck of the woods, he has no such issues but I will send him this. Top stuff.
I haven't read this whole thread but I suspect most know he was no angel, RIP but the world is a safer/better place without him.
God Give Me Strength......
The notion that `most of the people in England know he was executed' is tosh and shows how outside of normal society these people are.
Policing isn't an ad hominem exercise. I'm sure Duggan was a complete s**t but this is not about whether he deserved to die; it's about the protocols of police activity in potential combat situations. Clearly someone in an extremely privileged position (legal gun-carrier) screwed up, and even more clearly, the issue was subsequently fudged. For nobody to be punished as a result of this appalling and catastrophic error is terrible, and THAT is what is causing this fresh torrent of outrage.
The riots at the time weren't really about Duggan; they were perhaps two parts disaffection, two parts alienation and one part pack mentality
Saying the OB screwed up is wrong if it was an unlawful killing you can say that it was a lawful shooting
No one can prove one way or the other as to wether duggan threw the .
/|.._______________/\_
/ '—_______——____|]
/_==0;;;;;;;;___./
), —.(_(__) /
// (..) ), ——"
//___// on exit or before
He exited the vehicle in a fast and provocative way with something in his hand
Sorry about the pic every time I write the word for a G*n it happens
There were just too many people out there taking the opportunity to go on the rob or smash things up who had no link to and either didn't know or didn't care about the Duggan shooting.
Lots of people dislike or distrust the police, or, if you like, "The Man", but to accredit 4/5 of the riots to disaffection and alienation is ludicrous in my opinion.
At the end of the day, it was a jury of the public who declared this as legal. I could understand the anger had a Police commission come to this conclusion, but in a nation of police haters it seems they finally got some support from the public over how difficult their job is