If I am honest was kinda hoping Leige lost today, if they never made Champions League maybe Daddy would see that his Priorty should not be his first born, and spend more time with us buying us lots of nice things.
Still a big ask for them to make the group stages. They'll be in the non-champions section so could draw the likes of Zenit, Lille, Dnipro or Feyenoord. Even if they get a smaller side and make it through they can then face Arsenal, Napoli, Bilbao or Porto. I'd say the chances of them making it through to the groups are very slim.
I really worry what will happen now. Roland must have realised that he wont be able to do with us what he did to standered whch was shift players from other clubs he owns for free to us because the championship is too difficult a league. It may meant that he wants to exploit our academy and turn us into a sort of feeder club (by either using money he gets from our academy players for standered's needs or giving graduates directly to them as he earlier suggested) which I dont believe was his original plan. This would result in us being relegated and being thrown into chaos as the fans throw a tantrum (on charlton life, obviously). this could end up meaning we are robbed of some of our best players and then he sells us on before he draws too much media attention to himself.
I know its a pessimistic overview, but Im really worried that this or something very similer will happen and that its not a worst case scenario anymore. There is something i really dont trust about Roland and Katrien. Almost as if they are trying to charm us a bit before they do their dirty work.
This Espionage could quickly escalate into an all out James Bond: Skyfall style warfare!
If Roland's club (Charlton) go tits up on the pitch then all of those other things like academy and feeder go tits up as well. I don't see him allowing it to go down that route.
If Roland's club (Charlton) go tits up on the pitch then all of those other things like academy and feeder go tits up as well. I don't see him allowing it to go down that route.
no because if we go down to league one he could try and replicate the Carl Jenkinson move a few times over.
If Roland's club (Charlton) go tits up on the pitch then all of those other things like academy and feeder go tits up as well. I don't see him allowing it to go down that route.
no because if we go down to league one he could try and replicate the Carl Jenkinson move a few times over.
Don't understand sorry. My point was that sustaining an academy on the intended scale will not be financially viable in league one. It would be cheaper for RD to ensure Championship survival on those grounds alone IMHO.
On Thursday night Sint-Truiden just missed out on promotion to the First Division in Belgium where, of course, they would have found themselves playing Standard Liege!! Favourites for promotion AS Eupen suffered a shock 2-1 defeat at OH Leuven in the final play-off round, leaving Sint-Truiden needing a win at home against Royal Mouscron-Peruweltz to secure promotion. Unfortunately, having led 1-0 at HT, they eventually lost 2-4 and missed out.
As an aside, the Belgian league must have concluded Duchatelet does not own (influence?) Sint-Truiden or they wouldn't have been cleared to play in the Play-Offs!!
Today, Ujpest, who secured their survival in Division One last weekend, play Diosgyor in the final of Magyar Kupa, a competition they've won eight times. Don't know whether this might get them into the Europa League.
Meanwhile, Alcorcon still have three games to play and a win today against Mirandes would keep their outside chance of a Play-Off place alive for another week.
Duchatelet is certainly getting his money's worth!! Let's hope it encourages him to spend more!!
It seems as though Roland's teams do Cups. Following our own FA Cup QF appearance and Carl Zeiss Jena's triumph in their Regional Cup, Ujpest won their ninth Hungarian Cup this afternoon. Diosgyor equalised in injury time to take the game into extra-time. It finished 1-1, but Ujpest won on penalties.
Put your money on Charlton doing well in at least one of the knock-out competitions next season!!
AD Alcorcon won again and continue to storm up the table. They're now just three points off the Play-Offs with two to play.
It does seem that Ujpest will qualify for a Europa League qualifiying place. I thought UEFA don't allow the same owner to have more than one team in either competition, because so many UCL teams drop into the Europa League later on.
So the question is whether UEFA believe that Ujpest really isn't owned by RD.
It does seem that Ujpest will qualify for a Europa League qualifiying place. I thought UEFA don't allow the same owner to have more than one team in either competition, because so many UCL teams drop into the Europa League later on.
So the question is whether UEFA believe that Ujpest really isn't owned by RD.
Good question.
It appears that the authorities in Belgium took the view that Duchatelet doesn't own/control Sint Truiden despite it being "in the family" so maybe the same principle will apply to Ujpest. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Wonder if the appointment of a network-wide head of communications, based in Budapest, ironically, will be evidence against Duchatelet?
If anybody is interested, here's how it works for season 2014/15;
Ujpest will enter the Europa League in the 2nd Qualifying Round. The path to the Group stages is via the 3rd Qualifying Round and the Play-Off Round, i.e, they'll need to get through three ties to make the Group stages.
The Play-Off round includes the fifteen losers from the Champions League 3rd Qualifying Round.
The Group stages involve 48 teams in twelve groups of four and includes the ten losers from the Champions League Play-Off round.
The winners and runners-up in each of the twelve groups proceed to the knock-out stages of the Europa League, along with the eight third placed teams in the Champions League Group stages.
Standard Liege enter the Champions League in the Third Qualifying Round. If they win they proceed to the Play-Off Round. If they lose they'll enter the Europa League in the Play-Off Round where victory will see them enter the Group stages.
If Standard win their Champions League Play-Off Round tie they'll join the big boys in the Group stages. If they lose in this round they'll enter the Europa League in the Group stages.
It seems as though Roland's teams do Cups. Following our own FA Cup QF appearance and Carl Zeiss Jena's triumph in their Regional Cup, Ujpest won their ninth Hungarian Cup this afternoon. Diosgyor equalised in injury time to take the game into extra-time. It finished 1-1, but Ujpest won on penalties.
Put your money on Charlton doing well in at least one of the knock-out competitions next season!!
AD Alcorcon won again and continue to storm up the table. They're now just three points off the Play-Offs with two to play.
I wonder if it is a cup policy that he likes to try and pick the team for those games.
Amaury Gerard is going to work as a new media manager for Roland Duchâtelet's football network, Standard, Charlton, Ujpest, Alcorcon and Carl Zeiss Jena. The new force will take control of the media and communication history of the clubs concerned. Each team retains a local network. The communication unit in Hungary needs to add a dimension across borders. Amaury Gerard has a history in the world of telecommunications, sales, marketing and product management. He worked for a number of sports channels.
Welcome back. Actually we picked up this news a few days ago. Nevertheless I notice one thing. The Belgian press talks about the network, including Ujpest, but not including Sint-Truiden. We all know why the Belgian press cannot suggest STVV is part of the Network. Yet Ujpest is, according to this. I wonder how soon UEFA will notice. I hope it will not be before Ujpest are eliminated from the Europa League, otherwise they may notice that they could play Standard...
well "officially" RD has no affiliation with STVV anymore - he left there and bought Standard Liege. So for the Belgian FA things are ok, but a lot of belgian fans, media and press raised they eyebrows about the situation. So far it hasn't been a big problem because STVV and Standard didn't paly in the same league yet since Duchatelet took over Liege.
"Officially" he is also not in charge of Ujpest in Hungary
And "Officially" RD"s so called network is just a bunch of football clubs across europe cooperating with each other, like Man united cooperate with R. Antwerp FC, and few other belgian clubs also have "agreements" with other foreign clubs.
Of course all those clubs are "run" by RD, but on paper he doesn't run them that much that it does not comply with UEFA regulations. But it is a thin line to walk.
I'm also curious what UEFA would do if someone complained to them for Ujpest and Standard both entering the european cups while having "the same ownership. "
Good summary I'd say. My guess is that UEFA will pay no attention unless or until Duchatelet does something high profile and controversial. Watford would have been OK had they not over done it.
Like @dominiek and all other Belgian fans, you are especially welcome on this thread, which seeks to understand how RD and his business strategy actually operates, so that we can understand the implications for Charlton. Whenever the RD network (or anything else about RD) is discussed in Belgium, we'd like to hear what's said or written.
Personally I'm undecided about whether the network idea is a good one, either generally or specifically for us. I certainly support RD's view that the money paid to and for players, and especially to agents, is ridiculous. However when it comes to group ownership, I think the UEFA rules are there for a good reason, to protect the integrity of the competitions, on behalf of us fans. (whether UEFA implement those rules effectively, is another matter). RD seems to have strong views about society and how it is organised. I would like to hear from him if he respects the reasons why ownership rules exist. Has any Belgian media asked him this in interviews?
We know that Standard, Charlton, Alcorcon and Jena are owned by the same company, Staprix NV. There is no way that two of those clubs would be allowed to play in the Europa League. Possibly for that reason, Ujpest is not owned by Staprix; yet it is very easy for some guy (Amaury Gerard) to be employed by one company for a role which affects clubs owned by a different company. Funny enough, one of his tasks will be to agree a "common message" which all clubs will use to explain this ownership issue to enquiring journalists or fans. Not many people will worry about who pays Mr Gerard. If however there would be a Group Director of Football deciding which players go where in the Network, that would be a different matter.
where i really think some posters on this forum are wrong, is that RD wants to "micromanage" everything; Picking the team, decideng on transfers, run the clubs on a daily basis etcetera. He doesn't do that in his companies and he doesn't do that in is football clubs.
The "bigger idea" of having this football clubs work together is of course his, and the money that flows to them is also mostly his, but to think he picks the team, give daily/weekly instructions to the management and his coaching staffs at those clubs etcetera, those ideas are somewhat ridiculous imo; I mean after all RD is human, and also for him there are also only 24h in a day and 7 days in a week, and i'm quite sure that even RD needs sleep
So in short he will have a say on the big investments because after all it is his money he needs to put into that, but him being on top of every little detail and decision to be made, that is just impossible for him. A good business man knows how to delegate tasks and jobs to people he hired and pays to do those jobs, i'm pretty sure RD will be no different in that regard.
Welcome back. Actually we picked up this news a few days ago. Nevertheless I notice one thing. The Belgian press talks about the network, including Ujpest, but not including Sint-Truiden. We all know why the Belgian press cannot suggest STVV is part of the Network. Yet Ujpest is, according to this. I wonder how soon UEFA will notice. I hope it will not be before Ujpest are eliminated from the Europa League, otherwise they may notice that they could play Standard...
Interestingly Amaury Gerard has taken down the photo of him on his Twitter feed sat in an office at STVV's stadium proclaiming his first day at work....
... but him being on top of every little detail and decision to be made, that is just impossible for him. A good business man knows how to delegate tasks and jobs to people he hired and pays to do those jobs, i'm pretty sure RD will be no different in that regard.
I hope so too. Unfortunately, there is very good evidence that Roland hasn't been satisfied with delegating. And that's where some of us are uneasy.
You raise an interesting point about the network which I've been meaning to mention for a while. RD has been physically stretching himself in the last six months in a way which i can hardly believe is sustainable. He has bought four clubs. That alone is a huge amount of work, and as we have commented he completed those purchases at a speed you would not see in comparable acquisitions in businesses like advertising agencies. And in one case - Ujpest - we saw that he was landed with an unexpected tax problem. That alone would challenge a lot of very smart CEOs. He will have to fly between these quite far flung clubs - I don't know whether he has a private jet, but even so that's a lot of travel. And he is 67 years old, although he looks very fit for his age. And he has a big family. How does he do it? For sure, he does not have time to micro-manage all these clubs down to team level.
So that leaves two questions.
1. Does he have the time to devote, that each of these new businesses needs?
2. Who are the trusted lieutenants that help him make all the necessary decisions in an effective and timely manner?
On the one hand I am in awe at the management task he has set himself and the sheer physical resilience he must possess to even consider taking this all on. On the other, I worry that he does not have time to think through important decisions, let alone discuss them adequately with key personnel.
Did he not say that he leaves each club to manage on their own, and expects each club to pay for itself? That would seem to me, that as long as the club is doing OK on the pitch and financially, he will leave alone.
Comments
If they can win their last 3 they've got a chance of the play offs although one game is away to Barca B
Still a big ask for them to make the group stages. They'll be in the non-champions section so could draw the likes of Zenit, Lille, Dnipro or Feyenoord.
Even if they get a smaller side and make it through they can then face Arsenal, Napoli, Bilbao or Porto. I'd say the chances of them making it through to the groups are very slim.
Super summary again, PA - many thanks as before.
I know its a pessimistic overview, but Im really worried that this or something very similer will happen and that its not a worst case scenario anymore. There is something i really dont trust about Roland and Katrien. Almost as if they are trying to charm us a bit before they do their dirty work.
This Espionage could quickly escalate into an all out James Bond: Skyfall style warfare!
On Thursday night Sint-Truiden just missed out on promotion to the First Division in Belgium where, of course, they would have found themselves playing Standard Liege!! Favourites for promotion AS Eupen suffered a shock 2-1 defeat at OH Leuven in the final play-off round, leaving Sint-Truiden needing a win at home against Royal Mouscron-Peruweltz to secure promotion. Unfortunately, having led 1-0 at HT, they eventually lost 2-4 and missed out.
As an aside, the Belgian league must have concluded Duchatelet does not own (influence?) Sint-Truiden or they wouldn't have been cleared to play in the Play-Offs!!
Today, Ujpest, who secured their survival in Division One last weekend, play Diosgyor in the final of Magyar Kupa, a competition they've won eight times. Don't know whether this might get them into the Europa League.
Meanwhile, Alcorcon still have three games to play and a win today against Mirandes would keep their outside chance of a Play-Off place alive for another week.
Duchatelet is certainly getting his money's worth!! Let's hope it encourages him to spend more!!
I notice there's an 'anti-playoff' banner in there.
Put your money on Charlton doing well in at least one of the knock-out competitions next season!!
AD Alcorcon won again and continue to storm up the table. They're now just three points off the Play-Offs with two to play.
If that's correct then RD can't have two teams in that competition ?
So the question is whether UEFA believe that Ujpest really isn't owned by RD.
It appears that the authorities in Belgium took the view that Duchatelet doesn't own/control Sint Truiden despite it being "in the family" so maybe the same principle will apply to Ujpest. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Wonder if the appointment of a network-wide head of communications, based in Budapest, ironically, will be evidence against Duchatelet?
Ujpest will enter the Europa League in the 2nd Qualifying Round. The path to the Group stages is via the 3rd Qualifying Round and the Play-Off Round, i.e, they'll need to get through three ties to make the Group stages.
The Play-Off round includes the fifteen losers from the Champions League 3rd Qualifying Round.
The Group stages involve 48 teams in twelve groups of four and includes the ten losers from the Champions League Play-Off round.
The winners and runners-up in each of the twelve groups proceed to the knock-out stages of the Europa League, along with the eight third placed teams in the Champions League Group stages.
Standard Liege enter the Champions League in the Third Qualifying Round. If they win they proceed to the Play-Off Round. If they lose they'll enter the Europa League in the Play-Off Round where victory will see them enter the Group stages.
If Standard win their Champions League Play-Off Round tie they'll join the big boys in the Group stages. If they lose in this round they'll enter the Europa League in the Group stages.
(I think!!)
Amaury Gerard is going to work as a new media manager for Roland Duchâtelet's football network, Standard, Charlton, Ujpest, Alcorcon and Carl Zeiss Jena. The new force will take control of the media and communication history of the clubs concerned. Each team retains a local network. The communication unit in Hungary needs to add a dimension across borders. Amaury Gerard has a history in the world of telecommunications, sales, marketing and product management. He worked for a number of sports channels.
Welcome back. Actually we picked up this news a few days ago. Nevertheless I notice one thing. The Belgian press talks about the network, including Ujpest, but not including Sint-Truiden. We all know why the Belgian press cannot suggest STVV is part of the Network. Yet Ujpest is, according to this. I wonder how soon UEFA will notice. I hope it will not be before Ujpest are eliminated from the Europa League, otherwise they may notice that they could play Standard...
"Officially" he is also not in charge of Ujpest in Hungary
And "Officially" RD"s so called network is just a bunch of football clubs across europe cooperating with each other, like Man united cooperate with R. Antwerp FC, and few other belgian clubs also have "agreements" with other foreign clubs.
Of course all those clubs are "run" by RD, but on paper he doesn't run them that much that it does not comply with UEFA regulations. But it is a thin line to walk.
I'm also curious what UEFA would do if someone complained to them for Ujpest and Standard both entering the european cups while having "the same ownership. "
Good summary I'd say. My guess is that UEFA will pay no attention unless or until Duchatelet does something high profile and controversial. Watford would have been OK had they not over done it.
Like @dominiek and all other Belgian fans, you are especially welcome on this thread, which seeks to understand how RD and his business strategy actually operates, so that we can understand the implications for Charlton. Whenever the RD network (or anything else about RD) is discussed in Belgium, we'd like to hear what's said or written.
Personally I'm undecided about whether the network idea is a good one, either generally or specifically for us. I certainly support RD's view that the money paid to and for players, and especially to agents, is ridiculous. However when it comes to group ownership, I think the UEFA rules are there for a good reason, to protect the integrity of the competitions, on behalf of us fans. (whether UEFA implement those rules effectively, is another matter). RD seems to have strong views about society and how it is organised. I would like to hear from him if he respects the reasons why ownership rules exist.
Has any Belgian media asked him this in interviews?
We know that Standard, Charlton, Alcorcon and Jena are owned by the same company, Staprix NV. There is no way that two of those clubs would be allowed to play in the Europa League. Possibly for that reason, Ujpest is not owned by Staprix; yet it is very easy for some guy (Amaury Gerard) to be employed by one company for a role which affects clubs owned by a different company. Funny enough, one of his tasks will be to agree a "common message" which all clubs will use to explain this ownership issue to enquiring journalists or fans. Not many people will worry about who pays Mr Gerard. If however there would be a Group Director of Football deciding which players go where in the Network, that would be a different matter.
where i really think some posters on this forum are wrong, is that RD wants to "micromanage" everything; Picking the team, decideng on transfers, run the clubs on a daily basis etcetera. He doesn't do that in his companies and he doesn't do that in is football clubs.
The "bigger idea" of having this football clubs work together is of course his, and the money that flows to them is also mostly his, but to think he picks the team, give daily/weekly instructions to the management and his coaching staffs at those clubs etcetera, those ideas are somewhat ridiculous imo; I mean after all RD is human, and also for him there are also only 24h in a day and 7 days in a week, and i'm quite sure that even RD needs sleep
So in short he will have a say on the big investments because after all it is his money he needs to put into that, but him being on top of every little detail and decision to be made, that is just impossible for him. A good business man knows how to delegate tasks and jobs to people he hired and pays to do those jobs, i'm pretty sure RD will be no different in that regard.
You raise an interesting point about the network which I've been meaning to mention for a while. RD has been physically stretching himself in the last six months in a way which i can hardly believe is sustainable. He has bought four clubs. That alone is a huge amount of work, and as we have commented he completed those purchases at a speed you would not see in comparable acquisitions in businesses like advertising agencies. And in one case - Ujpest - we saw that he was landed with an unexpected tax problem. That alone would challenge a lot of very smart CEOs. He will have to fly between these quite far flung clubs - I don't know whether he has a private jet, but even so that's a lot of travel. And he is 67 years old, although he looks very fit for his age. And he has a big family. How does he do it? For sure, he does not have time to micro-manage all these clubs down to team level.
So that leaves two questions.
1. Does he have the time to devote, that each of these new businesses needs?
2. Who are the trusted lieutenants that help him make all the necessary decisions in an effective and timely manner?
On the one hand I am in awe at the management task he has set himself and the sheer physical resilience he must possess to even consider taking this all on. On the other, I worry that he does not have time to think through important decisions, let alone discuss them adequately with key personnel.