I would be interested to know how many eastern european limited companies have been set up and vanish 18 months down the line when their yearly payment is due. And as for that earlier post Leroy, what a load of bollocks.
Really? I thought it was rather accurate - seeing as the Tories will surely now realise they have to do a better job of pandering to the nastier tendencies of the middle-Englander to appease them back itno voting for them instead of UKIP. Of course, for Labour voters, this election is nothing but a win - the Lib Dems have disappeared off the face of the Earth and the Tory vote is split between 'traditional' Tories and the UK answer to the Tea Party. Milibland must be rubbing his hands together in glee.
I would be interested to know how many eastern european limited companies have been set up and vanish 18 months down the line when their yearly payment is due. And as for that earlier post Leroy, what a load of bollocks.
Not sure but probably less than all those ladies and gents that work at the car wash places for cash which I'm sure they all pay NI and tax on.
I would be interested to know how many eastern european limited companies have been set up and vanish 18 months down the line when their yearly payment is due. And as for that earlier post Leroy, what a load of bollocks.
Not sure but probably less than all those ladies and gents that work at the car wash places for cash which I'm sure they all pay NI and tax on.
Riiiight. Because it's only immigrants that don't pay tax & NI, yeah? Jesus Christ - this is pretty much what it was like growing up in the seventies and eighties.
It seems the left wing mindest is; Free speech and democracy for all, unless you disagree with what we think.
Whereas free speech for UKIP is setting the police on a bloke in Cambridge that posted this graphic to twitter, trying to get him to take it down: It's not like he even posted the original graphic claiming what UKIP's policies were - he updated to show where the claims had come from, and clearly said where he could find no evidence to support them. It's almost as if UKIP don't want people to know what they really stand for.
Freedom of speech means you're free to say what you like (as long as it isn't slanderous or an incitment to violence) and we're free to say that your voiced opinions are racist (which is not necessarily the same as saying you are racist, but if you're doing it often enough then you probably are).
Croydon, go back and read what I said again SLOWLY. 1) I did not call you racist (and if you think that was long winded you should see me when I really get going) 2) I did not even say what you said was racist.
So far, you're really not doing well on the "having a reasonable debate thing". Care to withdraw the abuse and try again when you've calmed down?
Interesting reading comprehension, somewhat proving my point.
The material for your debate is in wibble's post. Somehow I doubt you'll address it.
You can't take one idiot's fantasy policy, and then present it as the party's official policy. UKIP unfortunately has some real morons amongst it's ranks, like any party, but they seem to get more airtime.
Farage said today that UKIP will have no plans to privatise the NHS in their next manifesto. And when he last appeared on BBCQT, he also pointed out that the income tax increase was on the manifesto for the last general election and will not be repeated.
The climate change and human rights points are misleading, as leaving the EU would get rid of our current legislation on these, but that doesn't mean that UKIP want to scrap them altogether.
It's 36 pages long, so a bit of a read. Now, I didn't even vote for the Greens in the EU elections, but I'd like to see if UKIP had an equivalent document. Once you've procured it, we can compare directly between freedom-of-speech-hating leftwingers and UKIP, bastion of democracy. Using only direct quotes.
Croydon, go back and read what I said again SLOWLY. 1) I did not call you racist (and if you think that was long winded you should see me when I really get going) 2) I did not even say what you said was racist.
So far, you're really not doing well on the "having a reasonable debate thing". Care to withdraw the abuse and try again when you've calmed down?
"we're free to say that your voiced opinions are racist (which is not necessarily the same as saying you are racist, but if you're doing it often enough then you probably are)."
This to me reads as, if I voice my opinions too often then I'm probably racist. I guess that's not how you meant it to come across?
It's 36 pages long, so a bit of a read. Now, I didn't even vote for the Greens in the EU elections, but I'd like to see if UKIP had an equivalent document. Once you've procured it, we can compare directly between freedom-of-speech-hating leftwingers and UKIP, bastion of democracy. Using only direct quotes.
I never even said UKIP stood for democracy, was merely commenting on certain remarks on this thread. Words like 'nazi' and 'racist' being thrown around very freely by those who happen to disagree with UKIP.
That graphic is aimed at domestic policies, but here's the European manifesto. I don't think any party has released their 2015 General election one yet.
But that's the problem, apart from EU referendum and reducing immigration, what is UKIP's official policy on ANYTHING?. Farage keeps saying that their 2010 manifesto was drivel, but in the absence of any official policy launches all we can go on is that manifesto, their voting record in the European parliament and policy opinions from their senior officials. And you do have to wonder, if their manifesto has changed so radically in 5 years, how much of it is based on principle, and how much is just standard political triangulation? Which to an extent is fair enough, but does rather contradict their stance that they are different to the big three.
"we're free to say that your voiced opinions are racist (which is not necessarily the same as saying you are racist, but if you're doing it often enough then you probably are)."
This to me reads as, if I voice my opinions too often then I'm probably racist. I guess that's not how you meant it to come across?
No, that if you're saying racist things too often, then you probably are racist. Wouldn't have thought that was particularly controversial to be honest, particularly as I was using the generic you rather than the specific you. (If it would make you feel happier I will edit the above to make that point clearer). I have absolutely no position on whether you've voiced any racist opinions at this point, let alone how often you might have been doing it if you had, so unless you (specific you) think you (specific you) have been saying racist things too often, then we don't have a problem.
next election... vote ukip (you dont have a say, straight out of Europe) vote Lib dems ( keep Europe) vote labour ( scared to talk about it) conservatives ( scared to talk about it)
the only 2 party's that wanna discuss it went head to head. i have never voted lib dem but at least clegg can see it how it is and will then debate. Respect to him
The UKIP manifesto contains just two pages of written content, containing almost zero researched or verified fact, and blaming almost all of society's ills on immigration. And even when it doesn't, it has no evidence to cite, beyond its own rhetoric.
"• Unlimited EU immigration is putting pressure on schools."
^^^UKIP education policy, viz a vis Europe
Compare and contrast:
"In most of Northern Europe, Higher Education is fully or near-fully funded by the state. There are no tuition fees in the Scandinavian countries or for Scottish residents in Scotland. In France, an undergraduate degree costs €183. In the Netherlands, it’s €1,700. In the UK, for comparison it’s around €32,300 for a three year degree. As a result, it’s likely that more and more British students will take advantage of EU rules allowing them to study in other EU countries on the same terms as the students from those countries – ie, often, for free
The Bologna process brought together higher education systems across Europe, to ensure qualifications have equal value across Europe. So this process will become increasingly vital to the England and Wales as we rely on other EU member states to educate our citizens and workforce until such a time as we scrap our dangerous tuition fees. Green MEPs will: • Work towards better implementation of the Bologna Process commitments to widening participation of people from backgrounds not traditionally likely to go to university - including in the UK by accepting the European norm and abolishing tuition fees. • Oppose the European Commission’s attempts to promote tuition fees. • Support the Bologna process and continued work to ensure European qualifications are recognised equally across Europe. • Resist attempts to use the Bologna Process and the directive on services in the internal market of the European Union to turn universities into factories for employees rather than the powerhouses of democratic intellect. Learning is for life, not just a job. • Support programmes such as Erasmus which encourage students to study abroad during their degrees. Such cultural exchanges are key to helping broaden horizons. Erasmus has run out of funding during the financial year on more than one occasion in recent years, and had to be re-funded mid-year. We will push for increased funding from the outset. In the UK, stronger support is needed for Erasmus, and Green MEPs will support national efforts in the UK to encourage participation in Erasmus programmes
Schools
Whilst under 18 education is the responsibility of local and national government, the EU has an important role in supporting schools to learn from each other, and supporting pupils who wish to take part in exchanges to do so. Greens will: • Support schemes such as Erasmus+ and eTwinning which build direct links between pupils and schools across Europe. • Protect the right of EU citizens to an education in any other EU country"
OR, we could look at UKIP's approach to social housing!
"UKIP will prioritise social housing for those with parents and grandparents born locally."
How cute.
Here's the Green take:
"The UK is in the middle of a housing crisis. Homelessness is rising fast, the cost of housing – both renting and buying – is soaring, and our houses are the worst insulated in Europe. Far too many British people live in fear of a rent rise or a cold winter. Coalition policies are only making the situation worse. The Green approach to housing is radically different from that of the establishment parties. We support the building of new council houses and the buying up of homes to make them council houses. We would end the automatic right to buy social housing, and support a shift to a right to rent and funding for models such as housing co-ops. Whilst most key powers relating to housing are held by EU member states and many are held in the UK by local councils, there are ways in which the EU can help end the UK housing crisis. Green MEPs would work towards: • Banking regulations, taxes and reforms which encourage investment in the real economy, which includes house building, rather than speculation on the price of already built houses (see under ‘banking’, above). • Encouraging member states to adopt zero rating of VAT for the renovation and insulation of housing, to match the zero rating currently in place for new builds. We will push for VAT to be scrapped all together, but this is an important interim measure. • The codification of a set of rights for tenants’ unions to sit alongside legal rights for trades unions. • More support for municipalities and local authorities across Europe to share best practice in housing policy (and other policy areas). UK local government in particular has much to learn from the rest of Europe. • Investment through green quantitative easing in a generation of new, zero carbon, affordable housing across Europe."
Show me your working, UKIP! Show me you're not just a demagogueish, single-issue protest party without a solitary clue how to manage a complex beast such as a nation!
But that's the problem, apart from EU referendum and reducing immigration, what is UKIP's official policy on ANYTHING?.
Even on those two policies.
They want to leave the EU and establish a free trade agreement with Europe, "like the public voted for in 1972", apart from the bits and pieces of the 1972 treaty that they don't like and would like to remove. When they're asked exactly what they want, or what treaty agreement they would support, they shut down discussion (cf a video posted by UKIP supporter on one of these threads). They unravel on this sort of thing faster than the SNP (who, in my opinion, are asked to answer a much more difficult question).
They are actually in favour of increased immigration for some unspecified non-European groups, over and above the UK Border Agency policies on scarce skills and sponsorship, and, seemingly, over and above any additions to the scarce skills list.
next election... vote ukip (you dont have a say, straight out of Europe) vote Lib dems ( keep Europe) vote labour ( scared to talk about it) conservatives ( scared to talk about it)
the only 2 party's that wanna discuss it went head to head. i have never voted lib dem but at least clegg can see it how it is and will then debate. Respect to him
I'm not hugely into politics but I always vote, but surely there are other issues than just Europe that would make me decide who to vote for ?
It seems like Europe should be a topic for debate, but why has it become the only topic for debate ?
next election... vote ukip (you dont have a say, straight out of Europe) vote Lib dems ( keep Europe) vote labour ( scared to talk about it) conservatives ( scared to talk about it)
the only 2 party's that wanna discuss it went head to head. i have never voted lib dem but at least clegg can see it how it is and will then debate. Respect to him
It seems like Europe should be a topic for debate, but why has it become the only topic for debate ?
So to vote Tory you have to be a little Englander, zzzz
I vote Tory because I am a hard working family man.
Honestly if you have a job why would you vote for anyone else
Seriously?!?
The Tories have done NOTHING to help me feel secure in my job. Since they've been in charge all they've done is try and find ways to reduce our numbers, had us on a pay freeze for their time in power and succeeded in changing our working conditions so that we now have to work until we're 68 in a hostile and often violent environment. Vote Tory? Not while I have a hole in my arse.
next election... vote ukip (you dont have a say, straight out of Europe) vote Lib dems ( keep Europe) vote labour ( scared to talk about it) conservatives ( scared to talk about it)
the only 2 party's that wanna discuss it went head to head. i have never voted lib dem but at least clegg can see it how it is and will then debate. Respect to him
It seems like Europe should be a topic for debate, but why has it become the only topic for debate ?
Seriously what state do you think the economy would be in now if labour were in control
None taken :-) and to answer your question I have no faith in Labour either. I will never vote for them again until any connection to the Bliar regime has gone.
Comments
And as for that earlier post Leroy, what a load of bollocks.
It's not like he even posted the original graphic claiming what UKIP's policies were - he updated to show where the claims had come from, and clearly said where he could find no evidence to support them. It's almost as if UKIP don't want people to know what they really stand for.
Freedom of speech means you're free to say what you like (as long as it isn't slanderous or an incitment to violence) and we're free to say that your voiced opinions are racist (which is not necessarily the same as saying you are racist, but if you're doing it often enough then you probably are).
The material for your debate is in wibble's post. Somehow I doubt you'll address it.
1) I did not call you racist (and if you think that was long winded you should see me when I really get going)
2) I did not even say what you said was racist.
So far, you're really not doing well on the "having a reasonable debate thing". Care to withdraw the abuse and try again when you've calmed down?
Farage said today that UKIP will have no plans to privatise the NHS in their next manifesto. And when he last appeared on BBCQT, he also pointed out that the income tax increase was on the manifesto for the last general election and will not be repeated.
The climate change and human rights points are misleading, as leaving the EU would get rid of our current legislation on these, but that doesn't mean that UKIP want to scrap them altogether.
In the interests of fairness, we'll compare it to a similar document, the Green Party policy document: http://greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/European Manifesto 2014.pdf
It's 36 pages long, so a bit of a read. Now, I didn't even vote for the Greens in the EU elections, but I'd like to see if UKIP had an equivalent document. Once you've procured it, we can compare directly between freedom-of-speech-hating leftwingers and UKIP, bastion of democracy. Using only direct quotes.
This to me reads as, if I voice my opinions too often then I'm probably racist. I guess that's not how you meant it to come across?
That graphic is aimed at domestic policies, but here's the European manifesto. I don't think any party has released their 2015 General election one yet.
http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1398869254/EuroManifestoLaunch.pdf?1398869254
vote ukip (you dont have a say, straight out of Europe)
vote Lib dems ( keep Europe)
vote labour ( scared to talk about it)
conservatives ( scared to talk about it)
the only 2 party's that wanna discuss it went head to head. i have never voted lib dem but at least clegg can see it how it is and will then debate. Respect to him
"• Unlimited EU immigration is putting
pressure on schools."
^^^UKIP education policy, viz a vis Europe
Compare and contrast:
"In most of Northern Europe, Higher Education is fully or
near-fully funded by the state. There are no tuition fees
in the Scandinavian countries or for Scottish residents in
Scotland. In France, an undergraduate degree costs €183. In
the Netherlands, it’s €1,700. In the UK, for comparison it’s
around €32,300 for a three year degree.
As a result, it’s likely that more and more British students
will take advantage of EU rules allowing them to study in
other EU countries on the same terms as the students from
those countries – ie, often, for free
The Bologna process brought together higher education
systems across Europe, to ensure qualifications have
equal value across Europe. So this process will become
increasingly vital to the England and Wales as we rely
on other EU member states to educate our citizens and
workforce until such a time as we scrap our dangerous
tuition fees.
Green MEPs will:
• Work towards better implementation of the Bologna
Process commitments to widening participation of people
from backgrounds not traditionally likely to go to university -
including in the UK by accepting the European norm
and abolishing tuition fees.
• Oppose the European Commission’s attempts to promote
tuition fees.
• Support the Bologna process and continued work to
ensure European qualifications are recognised equally
across Europe.
• Resist attempts to use the Bologna Process and the
directive on services in the internal market of the
European Union to turn universities into factories for
employees rather than the powerhouses of democratic
intellect. Learning is for life, not just a job.
• Support programmes such as Erasmus which encourage
students to study abroad during their degrees. Such
cultural exchanges are key to helping broaden horizons.
Erasmus has run out of funding during the financial year
on more than one occasion in recent years, and had to be
re-funded mid-year. We will push for increased funding
from the outset. In the UK, stronger support is needed
for Erasmus, and Green MEPs will support national
efforts in the UK to encourage participation in Erasmus
programmes
Schools
Whilst under 18 education is the responsibility of local
and national government, the EU has an important role in
supporting schools to learn from each other, and supporting
pupils who wish to take part in exchanges to do so.
Greens will:
• Support schemes such as Erasmus+ and eTwinning which
build direct links between pupils and schools across
Europe.
• Protect the right of EU citizens to an education in any
other EU country"
OR, we could look at UKIP's approach to social housing!
"UKIP will prioritise social housing for
those with parents and grandparents
born locally."
How cute.
Here's the Green take:
"The UK is in the middle of a housing crisis. Homelessness is
rising fast, the cost of housing – both renting and buying –
is soaring, and our houses are the worst insulated in Europe.
Far too many British people live in fear of a rent rise or a
cold winter. Coalition policies are only making the situation
worse.
The Green approach to housing is radically different from
that of the establishment parties. We support the building
of new council houses and the buying up of homes to make
them council houses. We would end the automatic right to
buy social housing, and support a shift to a right to rent and
funding for models such as housing co-ops.
Whilst most key powers relating to housing are held by
EU member states and many are held in the UK by local
councils, there are ways in which the EU can help end the
UK housing crisis.
Green MEPs would work towards:
• Banking regulations, taxes and reforms which encourage
investment in the real economy, which includes house
building, rather than speculation on the price of already
built houses (see under ‘banking’, above).
• Encouraging member states to adopt zero rating of VAT
for the renovation and insulation of housing, to match
the zero rating currently in place for new builds. We will
push for VAT to be scrapped all together, but this is an
important interim measure.
• The codification of a set of rights for tenants’ unions to sit
alongside legal rights for trades unions.
• More support for municipalities and local authorities
across Europe to share best practice in housing policy (and
other policy areas). UK local government in particular has
much to learn from the rest of Europe.
• Investment through green quantitative easing in a
generation of new, zero carbon, affordable housing across
Europe."
Show me your working, UKIP! Show me you're not just a demagogueish, single-issue protest party without a solitary clue how to manage a complex beast such as a nation!
They want to leave the EU and establish a free trade agreement with Europe, "like the public voted for in 1972", apart from the bits and pieces of the 1972 treaty that they don't like and would like to remove. When they're asked exactly what they want, or what treaty agreement they would support, they shut down discussion (cf a video posted by UKIP supporter on one of these threads). They unravel on this sort of thing faster than the SNP (who, in my opinion, are asked to answer a much more difficult question).
They are actually in favour of increased immigration for some unspecified non-European groups, over and above the UK Border Agency policies on scarce skills and sponsorship, and, seemingly, over and above any additions to the scarce skills list.
So to vote Tory you have to be a little Englander, zzzz
I vote Tory because I am a hard working family man.
Honestly if you have a job why would you vote for anyone else
However, it would appear that my new councillor is a racist little Englander.
Which is nice to know.
It seems like Europe should be a topic for debate, but why has it become the only topic for debate ?
Seriously?!?
The Tories have done NOTHING to help me feel secure in my job. Since they've been in charge all they've done is try and find ways to reduce our numbers, had us on a pay freeze for their time in power and succeeded in changing our working conditions so that we now have to work until we're 68 in a hostile and often violent environment. Vote Tory? Not while I have a hole in my arse.
No offence mate
Seriously what state do you think the economy would be in now if labour were in control
None taken :-) and to answer your question I have no faith in Labour either. I will never vote for them again until any connection to the Bliar regime has gone.
Go Green!