A protest at this stage is premature. But things are more than a little worrying.
Thank goodness we didn't have the everything's rosy in the garden, we-have-no-stake-in-the-club attitude some people have on this message board 25 years ago, because we wouldn't even be having this debate.
Are they moving us from the Valley again then Algarve?
It seems this is a bit different, it appears that some people have still got the hump about sCP leaving and looking for any excuse to snipe at the club?
Are they moving us from the Valley again then Algarve?
It seems this is a bit different, it appears that some people have still got the hump about sCP leaving and looking for any excuse to snipe at the club?
Whilst there may well be some truth in what you say about SCP (I'll admit that it turned me against Duchatelet, although I was already concerned following the sale of Kermorgant and the network players that were brought in), if you look on the thread featuring Dyer's comments to the SLP there a quite a few people who were willing to take a "wait and see stance" who are now very concerned about what is going on at the club.
To express such concern on the one hand, and then mock the OP on this thread for wanting to do something about it, it just seems odd to me. Similarly, Airman Brown suggested a couple of months ago that a season ticket boycott would at least prompt some communication from the club, that idea was mocked and shot down in flames as well.
The amount of people on this thread who have said "it's his club he can do what he wants" - it's feeble. I'm not suggesting that we should be marching round an empty Valley tomorrow afternoon, but as long-term stakeholders in the club (or "customers" from a business perspective), we're entitled to and should be questioning what's going on at the moment. Not sitting on our arses and saying "it's his club, let him trample all over 109 years of history".
Are they moving us from the Valley again then Algarve?
It seems this is a bit different, it appears that some people have still got the hump about sCP leaving and looking for any excuse to snipe at the club?
Not as far as I know, no. The interview with Alex Dyer in the SLP was very worrying to me, we have all seen what interfering owners have brought to other clubs, and it has never been positive. I stated that it is too early to protest, but as with so many posters on here, you choose to ignore that bit so that you can have a pop at me.
I for one don't still have the hump about SCP being fired, though I was gutted at the time. Since then we have had another very competent manager, but for some unknown reason the owner has decided to let him go too.
Yes it is different to leaving the Valley, and you may have100% faith in the direction the club is taking, but I don't, and I base it on what I have seen happening, not what I think may happen. I have also seen posters on this thread saying that a football club's owner can do whatever he wants with the club like it's a corner shop or a cheese factory, with no due respect I say to them that they are passionless people who have no understanding about a football club and it's place in the community and in history.
I am prepared to wait and see what the next few months will bring, but there is nothing wrong with voicing genuine concerns about the football club I love.
I never have 100% faith in any leader Algarve, even Thatcher was wrong sometimes ;-)
But we are seeing the same knee jerk reactions, from the same people who said we were doomed to relegation when sCP left, it is getting tiring to say the least.
FFS he isn't trying to move us out of the Valley, he isn't trying to get us to change our team colours to pink and brown, he isn't trying to get us to change our name, our mascot, our identity. He has got rid of some players and one manager who had us in line for relegation and honoured his committment to another manager who he signed up for a limited period to get us out of trouble. He is investing money in improving the pitch and has pegged season ticket prices. Let's see what player he gets in. Pointing to the events of 20 years ago is BS, because the situation is just not the same. Maybe that's why people don't want to protest. Because there is F all he is doing that doesn't fit usual practice.
I never have 100% faith in any leader Algarve, even Thatcher was wrong sometimes ;-)
But we are seeing the same knee jerk reactions, from the same people who said we were doomed to relegation when sCP left, it is getting tiring to say the least.
Only this time we have some clear evidence that things are happening behind the scenes that are not good, so reactions are not necessarily knee jerk...
FFS he isn't trying to move us out of the Valley, he isn't trying to get us to change our team colours to pink and brown, he isn't trying to get us to change our name, our mascot, our identity. He has got rid of some players and one manager who had us in line for relegation and honoured his committment to another manager who he signed up for a limited period to get us out of trouble. He is investing money in improving the pitch and has pegged season ticket prices. Let's see what player he gets in. Pointing to the events of 20 years ago is BS, because the situation is just not the same. Maybe that's why people don't want to protest. Because there is F all he is doing that doesn't fit usual practice.
Oh mate, really? Can you envisage any takeover where the new owner wouldn't have immediately made plans to sort the pitch out? We're liable for fines if we can't fulfill our fixtures, he didn't have any choice in the matter.
As for season tickets, he wouldn't have sold any if he'd put the prices up, so he doesn't have any choice in that either. If the stadium's empty every week then he's done his money. Were you under the impression that he'd kept the prices down as a special favour to you?!
FFS he isn't trying to move us out of the Valley, he isn't trying to get us to change our team colours to pink and brown, he isn't trying to get us to change our name, our mascot, our identity. He has got rid of some players and one manager who had us in line for relegation and honoured his committment to another manager who he signed up for a limited period to get us out of trouble. He is investing money in improving the pitch and has pegged season ticket prices. Let's see what player he gets in. Pointing to the events of 20 years ago is BS, because the situation is just not the same. Maybe that's why people don't want to protest. Because there is F all he is doing that doesn't fit usual practice.
Oh mate, really? Can you envisage any takeover where the new owner wouldn't have immediately made plans to sort the pitch out? We're liable for fines if we can't fulfill our fixtures, he didn't have any choice in the matter.
As for season tickets, he wouldn't have sold any if he'd put the prices up, so he doesn't have any choice in that either. If the stadium's empty every week then he's done his money. Were you under the impression that he'd kept the prices down as a special favour to you?!
FFS he isn't trying to move us out of the Valley, he isn't trying to get us to change our team colours to pink and brown, he isn't trying to get us to change our name, our mascot, our identity. He has got rid of some players and one manager who had us in line for relegation and honoured his committment to another manager who he signed up for a limited period to get us out of trouble. He is investing money in improving the pitch and has pegged season ticket prices. Let's see what player he gets in. Pointing to the events of 20 years ago is BS, because the situation is just not the same. Maybe that's why people don't want to protest. Because there is F all he is doing that doesn't fit usual practice.
Oh mate, really? Can you envisage any takeover where the new owner wouldn't have immediately made plans to sort the pitch out? We're liable for fines if we can't fulfill our fixtures, he didn't have any choice in the matter.
As for season tickets, he wouldn't have sold any if he'd put the prices up, so he doesn't have any choice in that either. If the stadium's empty every week then he's done his money. Were you under the impression that he'd kept the prices down as a special favour to you?!
Yes, mate, really. Sorry if I don't see the imminent demise of our club because the new owner wants to change the manager and get rid of some players who left us in the relegation zone.
When you are depressed it is hard to see any positives in a situation, but this will pass.
So we let RD carry on, we let him choose he comes on against the managers wishes, we let him sack every manager who refuses to play the crap he brings in from his network?
Yep. It's his club.
No, it is our club
Is it? How much did we pay for it? And which of us gets to sit in the directors' box?
Chairmen are temporary custodians of football clubs that belong to the fans. They should be acting on behalf of the fans in protecting & enhancing the future of the football club. How in this country we allow anyone to come & go and fuck about with football clubs is anyones guess.
Without you there is no Charlton Athletic.
It baffles me that most of you lot don't understand this
It baffles me that you don't understand that we do.
Are they moving us from the Valley again then Algarve?
It seems this is a bit different, it appears that some people have still got the hump about sCP leaving and looking for any excuse to snipe at the club?
So we let RD carry on, we let him choose he comes on against the managers wishes, we let him sack every manager who refuses to play the crap he brings in from his network?
Yep. It's his club.
No, it is our club
Is it? How much did we pay for it? And which of us gets to sit in the directors' box?
Chairmen are temporary custodians of football clubs that belong to the fans. They should be acting on behalf of the fans in protecting & enhancing the future of the football club. How in this country we allow anyone to come & go and fuck about with football clubs is anyones guess.
Without you there is no Charlton Athletic.
It baffles me that most of you lot don't understand this
It baffles me that you don't understand that we do.
Countless people on this thread have claimed it is entirely his club, and mocked the suggestion that it is 'ours'. Which it is.
Osama. If I own a house and you rent a room off of me for 25 years. I decide that I'm selling the entire house. Does that room all of a sudden become yours. No. Business is business.
FFS he isn't trying to move us out of the Valley, he isn't trying to get us to change our team colours to pink and brown, he isn't trying to get us to change our name, our mascot, our identity. He has got rid of some players and one manager who had us in line for relegation and honoured his committment to another manager who he signed up for a limited period to get us out of trouble. He is investing money in improving the pitch and has pegged season ticket prices. Let's see what player he gets in. Pointing to the events of 20 years ago is BS, because the situation is just not the same. Maybe that's why people don't want to protest. Because there is F all he is doing that doesn't fit usual practice.
Oh mate, really? Can you envisage any takeover where the new owner wouldn't have immediately made plans to sort the pitch out? We're liable for fines if we can't fulfill our fixtures, he didn't have any choice in the matter.
As for season tickets, he wouldn't have sold any if he'd put the prices up, so he doesn't have any choice in that either. If the stadium's empty every week then he's done his money. Were you under the impression that he'd kept the prices down as a special favour to you?!
Erm, the last one???
As you well know, when Slater and Jimenez took over in 2010 the pitch was apparently ok and none of us were aware of the underlying problems caused by long-term lack of investment. When Duchatelet took over, we'd had a match abandoned on August, a cup game against Oxford postponed twice, Barnsley was called off an our before kick off and most of it didn't have any grass on it. Slater and Jimenez had a choice, Duchatelet had no option but to sort it. So not really a relevant comparison. But you know all that anyway, so not sure what your motivation was for that post, particularly as you don't normally post nonsense.
Osama. If I own a house and you rent a room off of me for 25 years. I decide that I'm selling the entire house. Does that room all of a sudden become yours. No. Business is business.
When it comes to a football club, business isn't just business, as I and others have previously pointed out. In fact, just to Join in the pedants club meeting that some people seem to be at, the room might not be yours, but as a sitting tenant, the new owner would have to accommodate you. He couldn't just kick you out...
A better analogy would be someone buying a grade one listed building and then requesting permission to knock it down.
You might stand there and say "Well it's his 400 year old windmill, he can do what he likes with it", but you shouldn't knock others who want to preserve it.
Like I said, it might all turn out grand, but there is nothing wrong - having seen the evidence of our own eyes - with having a discussion like this at this point in time.
FFS he isn't trying to move us out of the Valley, he isn't trying to get us to change our team colours to pink and brown, he isn't trying to get us to change our name, our mascot, our identity. He has got rid of some players and one manager who had us in line for relegation and honoured his committment to another manager who he signed up for a limited period to get us out of trouble. He is investing money in improving the pitch and has pegged season ticket prices. Let's see what player he gets in. Pointing to the events of 20 years ago is BS, because the situation is just not the same. Maybe that's why people don't want to protest. Because there is F all he is doing that doesn't fit usual practice.
Oh mate, really? Can you envisage any takeover where the new owner wouldn't have immediately made plans to sort the pitch out? We're liable for fines if we can't fulfill our fixtures, he didn't have any choice in the matter.
As for season tickets, he wouldn't have sold any if he'd put the prices up, so he doesn't have any choice in that either. If the stadium's empty every week then he's done his money. Were you under the impression that he'd kept the prices down as a special favour to you?!
Yes, mate, really. Sorry if I don't see the imminent demise of our club because the new owner wants to change the manager and get rid of some players who left us in the relegation zone.
When you are depressed it is hard to see any positives in a situation, but this will pass.
It's the owner interfering with the playing side that concerns a lot of people (well me, anyway). Up until Alex Dyer's interview we only had speculation and rumour, now we know this is the case. It has never worked anywhere else in the long term, combine that with the third manager in a very short space of time and it is worrying.
Forgive me if I'm just repeating what has already been said in this thread - I've tried to follow it but was beginning to give up on the will to live.
Is Charlton Athletic our club? Yes it is - emotionally and psychologically. But it isn't our club in the sense of corporate ownership and ultimately Roland can pretty much do as he likes with his property. Does that mean that he can do that without listening to and taking on board the views of his customers? (and that is all we are to him, he has no affliction of the condition we've suffered from all our lives). Well, yes he can - but it would be foolish of him to do so, especially as it is his intention to run the club for break even or dare I say it a small profit. To achieve that he needs paying customers.
Ultimately his agenda might very well be to increase the value of his asset to the point where he can sell for a much bigger profit. To achieve that he needs the club to be successful. If that is his objective then I'll live with that - it would mean Charlton Athletic being in a much better place than when he first appeared. If he is a custodian rather than owner, as others have suggested, then like any good custodian he would be judged on the before and after. The before was a basket case and I think we can all (mostly) agree on that.
Do I have concerns? Yes I do. Have those concerns materialised yet? No. Most of the doom merchants are making the assumption that their fears will or indeed have materialised - with only conjecture as the evidence. Those who see everything in the garden as rosey are doing a very good impression of ostriches in my opinion. If the fears materialise then I will be the first to man the barracades (well behind some big lumps perhaps) but that point isn't now, and hopefully will never be.
I'm relieved that Red is not an unlucky colour in Belgium, the protests would of started when the new kit comes out in June.
Hold your horses on that one. Unless anyone has seen what our new home kit looks like, it would never surprise myself if were to see a slight alteration in red white and red that we are all used to in recent years
I will always state that this is our club, because it always will be our club. That's the point. He will eventually sell this club, even if it's for £1 million more than he bought it he will be happy. It is Roland's business but it is much more than that to us. All he cares about is making dosh, and I like everyone else see it clear as day that the easiest and best way of doing that is to get to the premier league. However, what worries me and a lot of other people, is that RD thinks he knows the football aspect of running our club; as has been proven by recent events, he doesn't.
I admitted earlier in this thread that I did jump the gun calling for a protest, but because this club means so much to me and because it is OUR club, reading what Dyer had to say made me very very angry. I will stand by my belief that RD's style of ownership is potentially very detrimental to our club, but hopefully I don't get the chance to say 'I told you so'.
So we let RD carry on, we let him choose he comes on against the managers wishes, we let him sack every manager who refuses to play the crap he brings in from his network?
Yep. It's his club.
No, it is our club
Is it? How much did we pay for it? And which of us gets to sit in the directors' box?
Chairmen are temporary custodians of football clubs that belong to the fans. They should be acting on behalf of the fans in protecting & enhancing the future of the football club. How in this country we allow anyone to come & go and fuck about with football clubs is anyones guess.
Without you there is no Charlton Athletic.
It baffles me that most of you lot don't understand this
It baffles me that you don't understand that we do.
Countless people on this thread have claimed it is entirely his club, and mocked the suggestion that it is 'ours'. Which it is.
Factually it is his club in ownership, he can do whatever he likes with it, but as has been said over the years there is only one thing that is constant not the players, not the managers, not the board, the owners or even the ground .. it is the fans and most people get it.
The real problem is we have for many years had benevelont ownership, which was almost for the fans by the fans, but that was a small blip in time.. Gliksteins, Huyler, Fry, MS/TJ reflected real ownership. Once we came out of benevolent ownership again we were back in the norm and we can and should make our disgruntlement known but don't think we will ever be back in the world of benevolent ownership again. and don't think just because you are more vociferous than others your the only one that cares .. you are not!
why would we protest now? A failing manager was sacked. Give the new guy a chance. O and we have just signed a £1.2m centre forward who looks promising and we all have been saying we desperately needed.
Comments
Thank goodness we didn't have the everything's rosy in the garden, we-have-no-stake-in-the-club attitude some people have on this message board 25 years ago, because we wouldn't even be having this debate.
It seems this is a bit different, it appears that some people have still got the hump about sCP leaving and looking for any excuse to snipe at the club?
To express such concern on the one hand, and then mock the OP on this thread for wanting to do something about it, it just seems odd to me. Similarly, Airman Brown suggested a couple of months ago that a season ticket boycott would at least prompt some communication from the club, that idea was mocked and shot down in flames as well.
The amount of people on this thread who have said "it's his club he can do what he wants" - it's feeble. I'm not suggesting that we should be marching round an empty Valley tomorrow afternoon, but as long-term stakeholders in the club (or "customers" from a business perspective), we're entitled to and should be questioning what's going on at the moment. Not sitting on our arses and saying "it's his club, let him trample all over 109 years of history".
I for one don't still have the hump about SCP being fired, though I was gutted at the time. Since then we have had another very competent manager, but for some unknown reason the owner has decided to let him go too.
Yes it is different to leaving the Valley, and you may have100% faith in the direction the club is taking, but I don't, and I base it on what I have seen happening, not what I think may happen. I have also seen posters on this thread saying that a football club's owner can do whatever he wants with the club like it's a corner shop or a cheese factory, with no due respect I say to them that they are passionless people who have no understanding about a football club and it's place in the community and in history.
I am prepared to wait and see what the next few months will bring, but there is nothing wrong with voicing genuine concerns about the football club I love.
But we are seeing the same knee jerk reactions, from the same people who said we were doomed to relegation when sCP left, it is getting tiring to say the least.
As for season tickets, he wouldn't have sold any if he'd put the prices up, so he doesn't have any choice in that either. If the stadium's empty every week then he's done his money. Were you under the impression that he'd kept the prices down as a special favour to you?!
When you are depressed it is hard to see any positives in a situation, but this will pass.
If I own a house and you rent a room off of me for 25 years. I decide that I'm selling the entire house. Does that room all of a sudden become yours.
No.
Business is business.
A better analogy would be someone buying a grade one listed building and then requesting permission to knock it down.
You might stand there and say "Well it's his 400 year old windmill, he can do what he likes with it", but you shouldn't knock others who want to preserve it.
Like I said, it might all turn out grand, but there is nothing wrong - having seen the evidence of our own eyes - with having a discussion like this at this point in time.
Is Charlton Athletic our club? Yes it is - emotionally and psychologically. But it isn't our club in the sense of corporate ownership and ultimately Roland can pretty much do as he likes with his property. Does that mean that he can do that without listening to and taking on board the views of his customers? (and that is all we are to him, he has no affliction of the condition we've suffered from all our lives). Well, yes he can - but it would be foolish of him to do so, especially as it is his intention to run the club for break even or dare I say it a small profit. To achieve that he needs paying customers.
Ultimately his agenda might very well be to increase the value of his asset to the point where he can sell for a much bigger profit. To achieve that he needs the club to be successful. If that is his objective then I'll live with that - it would mean Charlton Athletic being in a much better place than when he first appeared. If he is a custodian rather than owner, as others have suggested, then like any good custodian he would be judged on the before and after. The before was a basket case and I think we can all (mostly) agree on that.
Do I have concerns? Yes I do. Have those concerns materialised yet? No. Most of the doom merchants are making the assumption that their fears will or indeed have materialised - with only conjecture as the evidence. Those who see everything in the garden as rosey are doing a very good impression of ostriches in my opinion. If the fears materialise then I will be the first to man the barracades (well behind some big lumps perhaps) but that point isn't now, and hopefully will never be.
Onwards and upwards.
I admitted earlier in this thread that I did jump the gun calling for a protest, but because this club means so much to me and because it is OUR club, reading what Dyer had to say made me very very angry. I will stand by my belief that RD's style of ownership is potentially very detrimental to our club, but hopefully I don't get the chance to say 'I told you so'.
Have you never read Peanutsmalloy's Grand National threads?
The real problem is we have for many years had benevelont ownership, which was almost for the fans by the fans, but that was a small blip in time.. Gliksteins, Huyler, Fry, MS/TJ reflected real ownership. Once we came out of benevolent ownership again we were back in the norm and we can and should make our disgruntlement known but don't think we will ever be back in the world of benevolent ownership again. and don't think just because you are more vociferous than others your the only one that cares .. you are not!