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Sport of Kings discussion thread

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  • If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?

    2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2

    That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.
    Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1 
  • If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?

    2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2

    That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.
    Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1 
    maybe someone is lumping on without fave/ or specific bet, that seems dodgy too me all those seconds, almost unheard off
  • edited January 26
    If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?

    2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2

    That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.
    Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1 
    maybe someone is lumping on without fave/ or specific bet, that seems dodgy too me all those seconds, almost unheard off
    The horse never got to the favourite today but, ordinarily, it just doesn't want to go past the leader. Some horses really are just followers rather than leaders of the pack. 
  • edited January 26
    It is a "bookie's benefit" horse though because it typically goes off at a price that isn't going to be profitable EW but is almost certain to occupy one of the places. Take today - it went off 7/2 making it a loser and the favourite won the race at 5/4. So all EW bets taken were losers bar the win element of the winner but then no one is going to bet EW on a 5/4 shot whereas they might well back one at 7/2 EW. 

    However, there is an angle in and that is if you can find a horse in another race that is likely to place too and you were to combine Mumayaz with it. Depending on how regularly you do that and how successful you are, you might just find yourself a victim of restriction or even closure though! 
  • big meeting at Cheltenham tomorrow with disappointingly small fields for the 'big' races
  • If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?

    2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2

    That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.
    Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1 
    Mister Coffey, running in the Doncaster 3.15, is an equalling frustrating horse. It hasn't won a race for over three years or a chase ever but travels well and gives the impression that it isn't putting it all in - six times runner up in its 11 races over the bigger obstacles. 

    However, there is some "meat on the bone" today and one reason why things might be different. Firstly, it is freely available at 12/1 with six places - so if MC is placed then, effectively, you will double your money. The other thing is that Nicky Henderson has decided to stick cheekpieces on for the first time - though that could go both ways as evidenced by the way Shishkin reacted to them in refusing to race. 

    I'm going to keep the faith and have an EW dabble, perhaps for the last time! 
  • In Chichester the weekend so going to Fontwell tomorrow.
    Any fancies from anyone?
  • If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?

    2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2

    That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.
    Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1 
    Mister Coffey, running in the Doncaster 3.15, is an equalling frustrating horse. It hasn't won a race for over three years or a chase ever but travels well and gives the impression that it isn't putting it all in - six times runner up in its 11 races over the bigger obstacles. 

    However, there is some "meat on the bone" today and one reason why things might be different. Firstly, it is freely available at 12/1 with six places - so if MC is placed then, effectively, you will double your money. The other thing is that Nicky Henderson has decided to stick cheekpieces on for the first time - though that could go both ways as evidenced by the way Shishkin reacted to them in refusing to race. 

    I'm going to keep the faith and have an EW dabble, perhaps for the last time! 
    Scrambled home in 6th - 12/1 wouldn't have been enough to double the initial stake as it is, of course, 1/5th of the odds but a decent profit nevertheless 
  • edited January 29
    Junkanoo tomorrow at Plumpton - 250pm. He is 1-2 and ought to win , but it’s racing so who knows !! 
    Congratulations on the win. Thought Junkanoo did it comfortably enough but I can't help thinking that he isn't the type to go and win too many races by a dozen lengths plus although I suspect Gary Moore wouldn't allow whoever was riding him to do so anyway! In any event, that's not a criticism because it is some horses way of doing things and of course that is actually great from a handicapping perspective. It's also probably why almost all of his flat runs, bar one of the times he won, have been between 72 and 84. A great dual purpose horse to own. The fact that it went off 2/9 might suggest that some heavy hitters had a few bob on it too. Hope you were one of them!

    Talking about Gary Moore, probably about 40 years ago, I part owned a couple of horses, one of which was called Opening Bars. It won a few races for us, one of which was televised and featured in a Question Of Sport "what happened next?" question by virtue of the fact that a horse got onto the track and chased our horse home! Gary used to regularly ride against us, as did on at least one occasion his sister, Candy. Never knew their father and trainer, Charlie although I gather that he was quite a character. I also understand that he was a used car salesman prior to training racehorses which could not be further divorced from what Gary, Candy, Ryan, Josh, Jamie and Hayley are now known for doing.   
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  • Junkanoo tomorrow at Plumpton - 250pm. He is 1-2 and ought to win , but it’s racing so who knows !! 
    Congratulations on the win. Thought Junkanoo did it comfortably enough but I can't help thinking that he isn't the type to go and win too many races by a dozen lengths plus although I suspect Gary Moore wouldn't allow whoever was riding him to do so anyway! In any event, that's not a criticism because it is some horses way of doing things and of course that is actually great from a handicapping perspective. It's also probably why almost all of his flat runs, bar one of the times he won, have been between 72 and 84. A great dual purpose horse to own. The fact that it went off 2/9 might suggest that some heavy hitters had a few bob on it too. Hope you were one of them!

    Talking about Gary Moore, probably about 40 years ago, I part owned a couple of horses, one of which was called Opening Bars. It won a few races for us, one of which was televised and featured in a Question Of Sport "what happened next?" question by virtue of the fact that a horse got onto the track and chased our horse home! Gary used to regularly ride against us, as did on at least one occasion his sister, Candy. Never knew their father and trainer, Charlie although I gather that he was quite a character. I also understand that he was a used car salesman prior to training racehorses which could not be further divorced from what Gary, Candy, Ryan, Josh, Jamie and Hayley are now known for doing.   
    Thanks mate. I get more nervous when they are supposed to win !! - anyway, we are pretty sure he is 5 lengths better on a right handed track. We are going to try and get him to the Imperial Cup at Sandown on the Sat before the festival. The track will really suit and he'll be running off a low weight ( assuming he gets in the handicap). Will be slightly ground dependent he needs good to soft or soft. 
    Nice memory about the Moore family. They are a great bunch.  
  • Junkanoo tomorrow at Plumpton - 250pm. He is 1-2 and ought to win , but it’s racing so who knows !! 
    Congratulations on the win. Thought Junkanoo did it comfortably enough but I can't help thinking that he isn't the type to go and win too many races by a dozen lengths plus although I suspect Gary Moore wouldn't allow whoever was riding him to do so anyway! In any event, that's not a criticism because it is some horses way of doing things and of course that is actually great from a handicapping perspective. It's also probably why almost all of his flat runs, bar one of the times he won, have been between 72 and 84. A great dual purpose horse to own. The fact that it went off 2/9 might suggest that some heavy hitters had a few bob on it too. Hope you were one of them!

    Talking about Gary Moore, probably about 40 years ago, I part owned a couple of horses, one of which was called Opening Bars. It won a few races for us, one of which was televised and featured in a Question Of Sport "what happened next?" question by virtue of the fact that a horse got onto the track and chased our horse home! Gary used to regularly ride against us, as did on at least one occasion his sister, Candy. Never knew their father and trainer, Charlie although I gather that he was quite a character. I also understand that he was a used car salesman prior to training racehorses which could not be further divorced from what Gary, Candy, Ryan, Josh, Jamie and Hayley are now known for doing.   
    Thanks mate. I get more nervous when they are supposed to win !! - anyway, we are pretty sure he is 5 lengths better on a right handed track. We are going to try and get him to the Imperial Cup at Sandown on the Sat before the festival. The track will really suit and he'll be running off a low weight ( assuming he gets in the handicap). Will be slightly ground dependent he needs good to soft or soft. 
    Nice memory about the Moore family. They are a great bunch.  
    I smell a £100,000 Imperial Cup/Cheltenham bonus...........
  • Horrible man and am really not surprised to learn that he has been banned. Once again. I had the unfortunate "pleasure" in another life to having to deal with him and he came across as an arrogant twat. 

    The first ban was following his bankruptcy over an unpaid tax bill and he spent seven years out of the sport until the BHA, which had turned down two applications in the intervening period, finally agreed to re-issue his licence in 2018. He still refused to abide by those conditions and now has added bullying of a fellow trainer and harassment of a young girl to his charge sheet. He should never be allowed near the sport again. 
    The question is, though, how much influence he will have if his former assistant, Tony Charlton, is allowed to continue to train from Harris' stables.

    The other person I feel sorry for (apart from Simon Earle and the young groom in question) who may suffer from this will be his son, who is an up and coming jockey, by association. As they say, you can pick your friends but not your parents!
  • The top end of the jumps game in Ireland has gone, monopolised by a very small number of owners and even less trainers.

    At Leopardstown today, there are four Grade 1 races worth, in combined prize money, over £550,000. There are a total of just 21 runners with Willie Mullins training 14 of them including both runners in one race worth £130,000! That two runner event is a particular concern for obvious reasons. 
      
  • edited February 4
    Money (and in the case of NH racing, which is hardly remunerative, narcissistic greed on the part of wealthy owners) has ruined all sport ........ IMHO
  • The top end of the jumps game in Ireland has gone, monopolised by a very small number of owners and even less trainers.

    At Leopardstown today, there are four Grade 1 races worth, in combined prize money, over £550,000. There are a total of just 21 runners with Willie Mullins training 14 of them including both runners in one race worth £130,000! That two runner event is a particular concern for obvious reasons. 
      
    the small field problem has spread to Ireland .. it is quite ridiculous that, as you say, so few trainers and owners dominate. Even Gordon Elliott has been bemoaning his lack of quality horses, the Mullins dynasty dominates  :/  
  • Needless to say Willie Mullins won all four of the Grade 1 races albeit that the favourite, Gaelic Warrior, unseated Paul Townend in the two runner affair. 
  • Needless to say Willie Mullins won all four of the Grade 1 races albeit that the favourite, Gaelic Warrior, unseated Paul Townend in the two runner affair. 
    Making it wins in all 8 grade 1 races over the weekend. Ridiculous.
  • Very, very sad news today. RIP Keagan

    Keagan Kirkby, a West Country point-to-point rider and a member of Paul Nicholls' team, has died following a fall at Charing point-to-point in Kent on Sunday.

    Kirkby, 25, joined Nicholls' yard in 2019 and had been an integral part of the team, having been shortlisted for the Thoroughbred Industry Employee Awards this year.

    A statement from the Injured Jockeys Fund said: "It is with deep sadness that we have to report that West Country point-to-point rider, Keagan Kirkby, 25, has died following a fall at Charing point-to-point in Kent today.

    "His horse, trained locally, ran out through the wing of a fence on the second circuit of the final race. The on-course medical team attended immediately and despite additional support from a 999 helicopter emergency services crew, he could not be saved.

    "We kindly ask that everyone respects the privacy of Keagan’s family and the team at Paul Nicholls Racing at this tragic time."

    In a post on his X account, Nicholls said: "Life is so hard sometimes, winners are totally insignificant compared to what has happened today. Sadly Keagan Kirkby, one of our best, hardworking lads, lost his life today riding in a point-to-point. All at team Ditcheat are mortified. Thoughts with all his friends and family.

    "He was passionate about his job and his riding and rode Afadil every day. Last thing he said to me on Friday was, 'Boss Afadil will win tomorrow'. How right he was. RIP Keag, we will all miss you terribly."
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  • Very, very sad news today. RIP Keagan

    Keagan Kirkby, a West Country point-to-point rider and a member of Paul Nicholls' team, has died following a fall at Charing point-to-point in Kent on Sunday.

    Kirkby, 25, joined Nicholls' yard in 2019 and had been an integral part of the team, having been shortlisted for the Thoroughbred Industry Employee Awards this year.

    A statement from the Injured Jockeys Fund said: "It is with deep sadness that we have to report that West Country point-to-point rider, Keagan Kirkby, 25, has died following a fall at Charing point-to-point in Kent today.

    "His horse, trained locally, ran out through the wing of a fence on the second circuit of the final race. The on-course medical team attended immediately and despite additional support from a 999 helicopter emergency services crew, he could not be saved.

    "We kindly ask that everyone respects the privacy of Keagan’s family and the team at Paul Nicholls Racing at this tragic time."

    In a post on his X account, Nicholls said: "Life is so hard sometimes, winners are totally insignificant compared to what has happened today. Sadly Keagan Kirkby, one of our best, hardworking lads, lost his life today riding in a point-to-point. All at team Ditcheat are mortified. Thoughts with all his friends and family.

    "He was passionate about his job and his riding and rode Afadil every day. Last thing he said to me on Friday was, 'Boss Afadil will win tomorrow'. How right he was. RIP Keag, we will all miss you terribly."
    A Just Giving Fund was set up within a matter of days of Keegan's sad demise with a view to raising £5k to pay for the funeral and a memorial. The fund currently stands at over £50k. Great effort from those involved in racing and I would hope that some of any residual is given to the Injured Jockeys Fund. Without them we wouldn't have racing and those unsung heroes deserve our support.   
  • edited February 20
    Is Cameron Iles the most underused jockey in racing? His record in the last year is:

    Rides - 37
    Wins - 13
    Placed 2nd - 7
    Placed 3rd - 1
    Unplaced - 16

    That's a 35.13% win rate and 56.76% for winning or placing.

    I can only think that he is being so sparingly used because Tom Lacey, the trainer who retains him, doesn't want him to lose his claim by riding for outside stables. This is reflected in that his win today on Chankaya (4/1) is the first he's had on a non Lacey trained animal. It is also evident, given Iles only shows a level stake profit of £3.98 from 12 wins and 34 rides for Lacey, that he is only utilised by his handler for those horses with a serious chance.

    Anyway, Iles' next booked rides are Come On Teddy for Tom George in tomorrow's Doncaster 2.35 and Tune In A Box for Lacey in the Warwick 2.15 on Friday (final decs yet to be declared so might not run). 

      
  • edited February 20
    Is Cameron Iles the most underused jockey in racing? His record in the last year is:

    Rides - 37
    Wins - 13
    Placed 2nd - 7
    Placed 3rd - 1
    Unplaced - 16

    That's a 35.13% win rate and 56.76% for winning or placing.

    I can only think that he is being so sparingly used because Tom Lacey, the trainer who retains him, doesn't want him to lose his claim by riding for outside stables. This is reflected in that his win today on Chankaya (4/1) is the first he's had on a non Lacey trained animal. It is also evident, given Iles only shows a level stake profit of £3.98 from 12 wins and 34 rides for Lacey, that he is only utilised by his handler for those horses with a serious chance.

    Anyway, Iles' next booked rides are Come On Teddy for Tom George in tomorrow's Doncaster 2.35 and Tune In A Box for Lacey in the Warwick 2.15 on Friday (final decs yet to be declared so might not run). 

      
    Was 7/1 originally with some bookies but Bet365 ducked it at 11/2. It's now as short as 4/1 with a few of them but Bet365 stand firm at 11/2. 

    Edit - despite the fact that the Come On Teddy is well handicapped on old form with this useful 7lb claimer on board, at a best price 4/1 in what is an extremely competitive, all value has now left the building
  • Is Cameron Iles the most underused jockey in racing? His record in the last year is:

    Rides - 37
    Wins - 13
    Placed 2nd - 7
    Placed 3rd - 1
    Unplaced - 16

    That's a 35.13% win rate and 56.76% for winning or placing.

    I can only think that he is being so sparingly used because Tom Lacey, the trainer who retains him, doesn't want him to lose his claim by riding for outside stables. This is reflected in that his win today on Chankaya (4/1) is the first he's had on a non Lacey trained animal. It is also evident, given Iles only shows a level stake profit of £3.98 from 12 wins and 34 rides for Lacey, that he is only utilised by his handler for those horses with a serious chance.

    Anyway, Iles' next booked rides are Come On Teddy for Tom George in tomorrow's Doncaster 2.35 and Tune In A Box for Lacey in the Warwick 2.15 on Friday (final decs yet to be declared so might not run). 

      
    Was 7/1 originally with some bookies but Bet365 ducked it at 11/2. It's now as short as 4/1 with a few of them but Bet365 stand firm at 11/2. 

    Edit - despite the fact that the Come On Teddy is well handicapped on old form with this useful 7lb claimer on board, at a best price 4/1 in what is an extremely competitive, all value has now left the building
    Went off 10/3 fav. Finished a well beaten 2nd and would have been 3rd but for a faller. Still a small profit with the EW at 7/1.

    Tune In A Box hasn't been declared on Friday so Isles doesn't have a ride in the next couple of days. 
  • Cameron Isles, on what was his first ride for more than a week, has just hacked up on Della Casa Lunga at 2/1 for the in-form Boultbee-Brooks stable. Quite why he isn't being utilised more remains a mystery to me especially as his retained trainer, Tom Lacey, is seemingly now allowing him the odd outside ride and he can do 9-10. His record in the last year now reads:

    Rides - 39
    Wins - 14
    Placed 2nd - 8
    Placed 3rd - 1
    Unplaced - 16

    The leader of the Jockeys Championship, Harry Cobden, has a strike rate of 23% and no jockey in the top 100 plus jockeys can match Isles' 39% (10 wins from 26 rides) - someone like James Best has had just one more win in the last year than Iles for another 254 more rides!


  • Junkanoo tomorrow at Plumpton - 250pm. He is 1-2 and ought to win , but it’s racing so who knows !! 
    See he's running in the Imperial Cup tomorrow, good luck with that, nice prize though.
  • was looking to go to the dublin racing festival again next year BUT in there wisdom they have put ireland vs england in the 6 nations on in dublin the same weekend, flights now pretty pricey and town will be so busy so giving it a swerve anyone ever done the punchestown festival in april?
  • Stefano Cherchi, former apprentice to Marco Botti and who rode more than 100 winners here, has tragically passed away following a fall in Australia at the age of just 23.

    RIP
  • Stefano Cherchi, former apprentice to Marco Botti and who rode more than 100 winners here, has tragically passed away following a fall in Australia at the age of just 23.

    RIP
    very promising young rider, this is terrible news .. R I P Marco
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