Braziliance I certainly think the true assessment will start from the Brentford game, but it would be nice to be a little more convinced, if only to get bums on seats. We have scored once in four pre-season games played in this country, yeah I know it's meaningless and all that, but I bet Bob and the players whish it had been better, let alone us the fans.
We have scored once in four pre-season games played in this country - an important observation, Seth. It's curious, because our failure to score throughout last season was primarily caused by the vacuity of our midfield - their inability to supply the strikers - yet by all accounts we had plenty of goal-scoring chances tonight - and muffed them all.
So, is that progress, of sorts? I wasn't at tonight's game, and was away on holiday for Ebbsfleet, where apparently we fielded many from the development squad. But I was there on the terraces at Welling and was horrified by what I saw.
For our many readers and correspondents up-country and abroad, may I sketch the scene? There were 2,600 fans packed in at Welling: they won't have a bigger crowd all season. They are three divisions below us, and we fielded our strongest team.
What appalled me about that game, our 2-0 defeat, was that we made not a single winning challenge in midfield. Attacking play starts from there, seizing possession - then with forward movement and accurate passes. We failed not only ourselves, but also the Welling fans who attended in the expectation of seeing tough and exciting opposition.
Do pre-season friendlies matter? Not for anyone who thinks they serve only as an extension of the gym - as fitness trials - or for anyone who imagines that suddenly, as if by magic, in two weeks' time we will be strong, creative and incisive against a team three divisions above Welling.
Peeters is right to be worried. I have a question for any of our fans who were at Posh tonight. Presumably our midfield has actually arrived since the debacle at Park View Road. So why, even with a shed-load of chances, did we fail to score?
o i think he is! Logic is we cannot beat Peterboro away in a friendly = we will not beat any championship side away this season OR i would be happy with a point at Brentford........you just cannot make it up.
o i think he is! Logic is we cannot beat Peterboro away in a friendly = we will not beat any championship side away this season OR i would be happy with a point at Brentford........you just cannot make it up.
Hang on though... We drew with Peterborough whilst Brighton lost and Wolves drew with them (Yet scored) so the bottom three must be:
I haven't seen any pre season games so can only go by what I read on here. For me, we have 7 new players that have come in, all at different stages in their fitness, all having played at different levels in their careers to date. We were incredibly fortunate that the overhaul in the summer of 2011 gelled so quickly, we might just have to wait a little longer this season. Of course people will point out lack of goals as a concern, but I'm confident it will come good. Every day those players spend on the training pitch is another day they work together, understand each other's strengths/weaknesses etc. I honestly can't read too much into friendlies. We've strengthened well, have some decent players. The Championship is such a tough league, but it's also a bloody long one. 46 games means we might not set the world alight at the start, but we've got time to progress as a team further in. The team came back to training at the start of July, not all the new players joined at once, so that has been staggered. I think that the ability to score really is the final piece in the jigsaw and one that takes the longest bit to sort out. I'm very up for this season, new players, new pitch, stability financially. I think we shouldn't get too carried away with lack of goals so far. We will come good, we just might have to be patient.
Ok my thoughts from last night , for what they are worth.
1st half we were MUCH BETTER than we were for those that saw the 1st half at Welling.
Peterborough weren't as good as i thought they'd be , in fact i thought Welling looked better than them.
Ben Alnwick looked a class act last night , making save after save.
Herman Hrreidersoons younger brother Yohann looks a class act with some nice skills , but drifts in and out of the action quite a bit , would love to see him on the left , rather than the right hand side, hope he can score between 6 - 10 goals.
Ben Haim , ( i know it was only Peterborough and he had plenty of time and space) will be all right if he plays like that for the rest of the season , Morro looked a bit shakey at times , a bit unsure of himself , also looked like he's hit the gym and beefed up.
We won't get very far if we persist with playing Harriott in that position for the WHOLE season , although there may be times away from home when it might work (please not against Brentford Bob).
Having seen him in the flesh, i can see why people call Bob Peeters , 'Big Bob' .....he's a unit.
Although i'm encouraged by our movement and passing, particularly in the 1st half, if we don't take our chances in front of goal , te opposition will, and we will be punished.
I don't know what Roland & Bob's aspirations are for Charlton this season , ie a top 6 finish / an automatic promotion push, mid table , or surviving relegation , but on this evidence without an out and out goalscorer and more creativity i think expect a long hard season is ahead fighting relegation , we will and need to get better , can see fans getting on Bob's back if we start the season with a few defeats ( i think we've got a really tough start).
What a pig of a journey back home got home at quarter to 1 , what the heck were they doing on the Dartford bridge, didn't manage to make up to my sons for missing out on the 5-1 victory we missed a few years ago , but i guess at least we went.
Why is it Charlton always seem to be just 3 players short of having a competitive team ?
I'm pretty sure that almost all supporters of all teams think exactly the same way. (Except for Man Utd's fans of course who quite rightly think they are 11 players short of having a competitive team!)
Couldn't agree more, Pompey and Billericay are now must win games...
Why is Billericay a must win game... Peeters will have had 12 Games as Charlton Manager by then... Sorry but if he dont win on Saturday then he HAS to go
Why are people going back to the Welling game??? A game in which 22 players were used 3 weeks ago.
Because we play this fixture every year and have never had a worse result?
Also I don't get all this "it's all about fitness". How unfit can a professional get in six weeks? When you have pros against non pros it is not all about fitness. Fact is we have not been scoring enough goals and football being in the entertainment industry should be about that. Who really wants to sit through another season of dreading conceding the first goal? If you want to rebuild the club it will need a brand of attractive attacking football and stirring performances at the Valley to be the foundation or numbers will continue to decline.
Pre season friendlies always bring out a number of arguments, disagreements and crazy predictions amongst fans. I see them mainly as an opportunity for players to get game time, and a manager the opportunity to assess his squad, tactics and formation. I really believe that any predictions for where we will finish at the end of the season based on these games is laughable.
Shortly after the Welling game I spoke with one of their players who I used to teach. He played in the second half of the game. His take on that particular match was that with the ball Charlton played at about 70% of their normal level. What he meant by this was their attacking movement, crispness of passing, busting a gut to support each other etc. Without the ball he reckoned we were at about 60%. This was in terms of tracking back,tackling, pressuring players with and without the ball.
He was unable to say who of the Charlton players played well as he doesn't really know them. He thought Jackson was the most committed and up for it and a few of the other players had mentioned Ventokele's pace. He said that if the game was played three or four weeks into the season then Charlton would annihilate them.
It sounds as though we have definitely improved on that performance based on the reviews of last night's game. I am sure that very few teams at any level go through a pre season thrashing all the opposition put before them.
There is much more to a pre season campaign than the results and let's base any prediction of the season on the first half a dozen or so league performances, not a bunch of pre season friendlies.
Has the season kicked off yet? i have missed something? I will give Big Bob 15 Games of league football before judging the team, so with that in mind Im out of this thread before i slit my wrists.
It'll be alright on the night. These games are just the dress rehearsal for what happens the weekend after next and beyond. Let's get shot of Reza, he don't wanna be here and get in a couple of new heroes. The future's bright. The future's RED n WHITE #COYA
5 full games played by mainly 1st team squad W3, D2,L0, Goals F8, A1 I haven't included Welling as the majority were not 1st team squad
If you disclude Welling because of that reason then including Gibraltar XI in stats is misleading too, a team plucked together a few days before - unprepared amateurs.
Pre season is fo a whole host of reasons, team chemistry is a huge reason and even the great man Curbs said, commentating on the City match, even in pre season not winning can get to you, winning is a habit..
We looked solid in the first half but Pboro grew in confidence and we dwindled a little. Still not quite where we should be at this stage imho
Every interview on player with either a coach, or a manager, or a player makes reference to the result, and to the goals. If it is only about fitness I would not expect the footballing staff to make such references, but they do. Maybe they also see the value of success even in pre season friendlies, just like many supporters.
Of course we would all like to win the games. The result is important but as important is the opportunity to assess every aspect of your squad before the season starts. If you're winning each pre season game two or three nil then confidence will obviously grow. If you're getting beat by two or three each game then there is a serious issue.
However, you cannot predict the season's performance on pre season results. I feel the opportunities these games present outweigh the result. I suppose initial observations would suggest we are fairly tight at the back and have made some good additions. We still appear to be creating chances but are not putting them away. Pretty much last year's pattern but I would argue our squad is stronger than this time last year.
Another couple of signings will see us OK but Peeters still clearly has lots of thinking to do before the season starts.
Well if you had put away your chances you'd have strolled that bare in mind our team was in the main fringe, youth and players we are looking to move on
We went back to our slow slow last season football in the first half got a little better second half, can't help thinking we used the game as a stage for scouts looking at our transfer listed players You get a goal scorer and he wouldn't be short of service or chances you really should have had at least three goals first half, but hey the time to worry is when your making chances I'm sure the goals will come.
Hope you enjoyed your visit those of you that came maybe the real ale was the highlight though :-)
By this stage it is no longer about just fitness but about systems, tactics, formation, set pieces, partnerships, options and being match ready.
But it is still just a friendly, still about preparing for the competitive games to come.
Wasn't there so can't say how close we are to being ready, how well the team is working together etc etc but we played a team that finished a dozen or so places below us last season and drew 0-0 away. We're not letting many in but neither are we scoring many.
So on paper not a terrible result but not a fantastic one either. It doesn't really matter though as if we'd won 5 - 0 or lost 5 - 0, the league and cup results are the ones that matter.
Yes the league and cup games are the ones that matter. Mind you if we are losing there will be a lobby that says you have to give the new lot 5, or 10 or 15 games, or half a season, or the end of the January transfer window to get used to each other, and the Championship and so on. There has to come a point where it is valid to say either the worries are credible, or the hopes are high. Maybe the Brentford away game is, or should be, a clear marker and test of the new set up.
Yes the league and cup games are the ones that matter. Mind you if we are losing there will be a lobby that says you have to give the new lot 5, or 10 or 15 games, or half a season, or the end of the January transfer window to get used to each other, and the Championship and so on. There has to come a point where it is valid to say either the worries are credible, or the hopes are high. Maybe the Brentford away game is, or should be, a clear marker and test of the new set up.
People can say their hopes are high or low now and many have. People can be worried too. It's allowed.
The point is that friendly results, players reputations, star signs, height or value on Transfermarket.com are not proof or even totally reliable indicators of how the team will perform in competitive games.
Only the competitive games will tell us that as those pesky other teams will be trying to win as well, damn them.
As Moltke, the German general said "“No battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy,”
Oh no we drew a friendly, what are we to do? panic! FFS if we score 10 goals a game in friendlys it will not mean shit by the time we kick off for real against Brentford....surely there cannot be a more moany fanbase than Charlton?
Didn't we put 4 past a fairly decent Scottish Prem side last pre-season and still get off to a crap start?
Considering we were experimenting with a LB at LW and a LW up top, to create a decent number of chances has to be seen as a positive.
Yes scoring seems to be an issue but it is kind of the final piece of the jigsaw after staying tight at the back, getting the midfield flowing and the ball regularly to the front men.
Not long left to click now but considering it sounds like we're bringing in a couple more attacking options (ie 1 attacking mid and 1 striker) and we also have moussa to come back in I'm not going to worry too much just yet.
Something that i dont read here is that for pre season friendlies, the coaching and scouting staff does not prepare the same way they prepare league games. There is no in depth analysis, nor intensive scouting and very few individual guidelines over opposition players (except if there is some history or they are well known). Its about checking your own team, seeing the lines they run in and how they react to each other. Results are nice for confidence and winning is better than losing (stating the obvious klaxon). But in the end you swap about 10 players a game, you try out positions, you have ideas about some players, see what they do when they leave their comfort zone and see who gels best with someone else. Its call pre season for a reason.
But to get back to my previous point, once season starts the team is set up by the manager to play the well scouted and analyzed opponent. Its about promoting your strengths vs exploiting the opponents weaknesses. In pre season its about assessing your own strength.
Creating chances is the hardest part - if thats ok , the goals will follow.
Comments
22nd - Wolves
23rd - Charlton
24th - Brighton and Hove Albion
(Man City are fcked this season after losing to Dundee...)
1st half we were MUCH BETTER than we were for those that saw the 1st half at Welling.
Peterborough weren't as good as i thought they'd be , in fact i thought Welling looked better than them.
Ben Alnwick looked a class act last night , making save after save.
Herman Hrreidersoons younger brother Yohann looks a class act with some nice skills , but drifts in and out of the action quite a bit , would love to see him on the left , rather than the right hand side, hope he can score between 6 - 10 goals.
Ben Haim , ( i know it was only Peterborough and he had plenty of time and space) will be all right if he plays like that for the rest of the season , Morro looked a bit shakey at times , a bit unsure of himself , also looked like he's hit the gym and beefed up.
We won't get very far if we persist with playing Harriott in that position for the WHOLE season , although there may be times away from home when it might work (please not against Brentford Bob).
Having seen him in the flesh, i can see why people call Bob Peeters , 'Big Bob' .....he's a unit.
Although i'm encouraged by our movement and passing, particularly in the 1st half, if we don't take our chances in front of goal , te opposition will, and we will be punished.
I don't know what Roland & Bob's aspirations are for Charlton this season , ie a top 6 finish / an automatic promotion push, mid table , or surviving relegation , but on this evidence without an out and out goalscorer and more creativity i think expect a long hard season is ahead fighting relegation , we will and need to get better , can see fans getting on Bob's back if we start the season with a few defeats ( i think we've got a really tough start).
What a pig of a journey back home got home at quarter to 1 , what the heck were they doing on the Dartford bridge, didn't manage to make up to my sons for missing out on the 5-1 victory we missed a few years ago , but i guess at least we went.
PEETERS OUT!!!
Also I don't get all this "it's all about fitness". How unfit can a professional get in six weeks? When you have pros against non pros it is not all about fitness. Fact is we have not been scoring enough goals and football being in the entertainment industry should be about that. Who really wants to sit through another season of dreading conceding the first goal? If you want to rebuild the club it will need a brand of attractive attacking football and stirring performances at the Valley to be the foundation or numbers will continue to decline.
Shortly after the Welling game I spoke with one of their players who I used to teach. He played in the second half of the game. His take on that particular match was that with the ball Charlton played at about 70% of their normal level. What he meant by this was their attacking movement, crispness of passing, busting a gut to support each other etc. Without the ball he reckoned we were at about 60%. This was in terms of tracking back,tackling, pressuring players with and without the ball.
He was unable to say who of the Charlton players played well as he doesn't really know them. He thought Jackson was the most committed and up for it and a few of the other players had mentioned Ventokele's pace. He said that if the game was played three or four weeks into the season then Charlton would annihilate them.
It sounds as though we have definitely improved on that performance based on the reviews of last night's game. I am sure that very few teams at any level go through a pre season thrashing all the opposition put before them.
There is much more to a pre season campaign than the results and let's base any prediction of the season on the first half a dozen or so league performances, not a bunch of pre season friendlies.
I haven't included Welling as the majority were not 1st team squad
Pre season is fo a whole host of reasons, team chemistry is a huge reason and even the great man Curbs said, commentating on the City match, even in pre season not winning can get to you, winning is a habit..
We looked solid in the first half but Pboro grew in confidence and we dwindled a little. Still not quite where we should be at this stage imho
However, you cannot predict the season's performance on pre season results. I feel the opportunities these games present outweigh the result. I suppose initial observations would suggest we are fairly tight at the back and have made some good additions. We still appear to be creating chances but are not putting them away. Pretty much last year's pattern but I would argue our squad is stronger than this time last year.
Another couple of signings will see us OK but Peeters still clearly has lots of thinking to do before the season starts.
We went back to our slow slow last season football in the first half got a little better second half, can't help thinking we used the game as a stage for scouts looking at our transfer listed players
You get a goal scorer and he wouldn't be short of service or chances you really should have had at least three goals first half, but hey the time to worry is when your making chances I'm sure the goals will come.
Hope you enjoyed your visit those of you that came maybe the real ale was the highlight though :-)
Good luck next season all the best
But it is still just a friendly, still about preparing for the competitive games to come.
Wasn't there so can't say how close we are to being ready, how well the team is working together etc etc but we played a team that finished a dozen or so places below us last season and drew 0-0 away. We're not letting many in but neither are we scoring many.
So on paper not a terrible result but not a fantastic one either. It doesn't really matter though as if we'd won 5 - 0 or lost 5 - 0, the league and cup results are the ones that matter.
Mind you if we are losing there will be a lobby that says you have to give the new lot 5, or 10 or 15 games, or half a season, or the end of the January transfer window to get used to each other, and the Championship and so on.
There has to come a point where it is valid to say either the worries are credible, or the hopes are high.
Maybe the Brentford away game is, or should be, a clear marker and test of the new set up.
The point is that friendly results, players reputations, star signs, height or value on Transfermarket.com are not proof or even totally reliable indicators of how the team will perform in competitive games.
Only the competitive games will tell us that as those pesky other teams will be trying to win as well, damn them.
As Moltke, the German general said "“No battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy,”
Yes scoring seems to be an issue but it is kind of the final piece of the jigsaw after staying tight at the back, getting the midfield flowing and the ball regularly to the front men.
Not long left to click now but considering it sounds like we're bringing in a couple more attacking options (ie 1 attacking mid and 1 striker) and we also have moussa to come back in I'm not going to worry too much just yet.
But to get back to my previous point, once season starts the team is set up by the manager to play the well scouted and analyzed opponent. Its about promoting your strengths vs exploiting the opponents weaknesses. In pre season its about assessing your own strength.
Creating chances is the hardest part - if thats ok , the goals will follow.