Funny how all religious folk have decided to believe in the all powerful being that someone told them about. All religions have geographical hinterlands. None of the all powerful beings piped their message into the heads of people on the other side of the world to the group that we're profiting from their message. Rather suspect that whatever god people believe in they'd believe in some alternative, if that was the prevalent teaching. Zeus and Poseidon is probably not much more of a stretch than Noah and his boatload of animals and god the ghostlie thing.
I am a radical atheist with strong anti- theist leanings. Losing my religion was one of the most liberating, joyous and life affirming events in my existence. I believe in secular Government and education and strongly recommend reading at least;
Richard Dawkins, " The God Delusion", - systematic, humorous, logical, dispassionate, point by point, demolition of religion.
Sam Hill " Letter to a Christian Nation"
Christopher Hitchins " God is not Great"
& Peter Boghossian " A Manual for Creating Atheists " Argues that atheists should actively seek to liberate people from their religion and provides a detailed method for achieving this.
If there is a God, the best thing that can be said is that basically he is an underachiever. All religions are the same guilt, with different holidays.
I am a radical atheist with strong anti- theist leanings. Losing my religion was one of the most liberating, joyous and life affirming events in my existence. I believe in secular Government and education and strongly recommend reading at least;
Richard Dawkins, " The God Delusion", - systematic, humorous, logical, dispassionate, point by point, demolition of religion.
Sam Hill " Letter to a Christian Nation"
Christopher Hitchins " God is not Great"
& Peter Boghossian " A Manual for Creating Atheists " Argues that atheists should actively seek to liberate people from their religion and provides a detailed method for achieving this.
If there is a God, the best thing that can be said is that basically he is an underachiever. All religions are the same guilt, with different holidays.
PS COYR's!
Yeah but...
What was the 'beginning'?
Can you whisper it to me, I won't tell.
Seriously? - Between ourselves, ..... roughly 14 billion years ago - about tea time.
Recommend " A Universe From Nothing" Lawrence Krauss - No God required!
Ok. Firstly the original dates in the bible and timing is admittedly inaccurate but God didn't write it he just spread the word.
None of the timings should be taken lie literal they are metaphoric, the 7 days for example, we are speaking in time format from before time existed, each of the 7 days wasn't literal it was just an order of events.
The Protestant church as I said before take on board the bible as a teaching as a way of life, a way we should behave and treat our fellow man, I take this part very seriously, this is why I have risen above the obvious taunting and jibing from one or 2 in particular.
I have also previously stated that it is difficult to understand and/appreciate faith in God, unless he shows himself to you this can be in different ways or experiences, until one truly opens their heart and mind and let's Christ in. ( cliche again sorry) snd actually feels the same closeness and whole ness that Christians feel it is impossible to comprehend.
Finally the person that says there's been no miracles in the last 2000 years, you are very wrong, there are miracles everywhere all the time, people getting pregnant after being told they are infertile, babies surviving being born at 23 weeks gestation, people awaking from comas when they are classed as brain dead.an example for you My neighbours child when born was brain damaged and had a multitude of problems, she was first told he wouldn't survive the birth he did, he wouldn't live past 2 he did, he wouldn't walk, talk, make eye contact, feed himself, guess what, he did. He is now 21 years old in, has left special needs education and is on a work placement in a farm, he walks other peoples dogs as a little business he does and although he is very small and doesn't talk well he talks enough and he is a lovely lad. She'd argue miracle, I can give plenty of examples of miracles on earth as I'm sure if you really think about it so could you.
I think it possible that there is some misunderstanding of people who hold a faith from some of those who do not. This might be best summarised by the notion that the opposite of faith is not doubt but rather certainty.
Ok. Firstly the original dates in the bible and timing is admittedly inaccurate but God didn't write it he just spread the word.
None of the timings should be taken lie literal they are metaphoric, the 7 days for example, we are speaking in time format from before time existed, each of the 7 days wasn't literal it was just an order of events.
The Protestant church as I said before take on board the bible as a teaching as a way of life, a way we should behave and treat our fellow man, I take this part very seriously, this is why I have risen above the obvious taunting and jibing from one or 2 in particular.
I have also previously stated that it is difficult to understand and/appreciate faith in God, unless he shows himself to you this can be in different ways or experiences, until one truly opens their heart and mind and let's Christ in. ( cliche again sorry) snd actually feels the same closeness and whole ness that Christians feel it is impossible to comprehend.
Finally the person that says there's been no miracles in the last 2000 years, you are very wrong, there are miracles everywhere all the time, people getting pregnant after being told they are infertile, babies surviving being born at 23 weeks gestation, people awaking from comas when they are classed as brain dead.an example for you My neighbours child when born was brain damaged and had a multitude of problems, she was first told he wouldn't survive the birth he did, he wouldn't live past 2 he did, he wouldn't walk, talk, make eye contact, feed himself, guess what, he did. He is now 21 years old in, has left special needs education and is on a work placement in a farm, he walks other peoples dogs as a little business he does and although he is very small and doesn't talk well he talks enough and he is a lovely lad. She'd argue miracle, I can give plenty of examples of miracles on earth as I'm sure if you really think about it so could you.
These things are remarkable and heartening without doubt, however medical science and good health care are surely a much more viable explanations in all of the cases mentioned?
I am a humanist and have strong beliefs about how to treat my fellow humans, animals and our wonderful planet - (and regarding the eventual rise to greatness of Charlton). Most of the more acceptable elements of Christian belief are by no means either unique to Christianity, or originally Christian. Morality does not hinge on a God. Indeed morality is very often absent from the practice of Religion, which has is a shameful history of persecution, abuse, war and hatred, inspired by and pursued in the name of "God".
As for the bible not being taken literally, well it is often cited as a source of Christian teaching isn't it? Indeed the entire Protestant movement focused upon the availability of the bible, in an accessible language as being the word of God.
The truth is that the bible it is a very inaccurate selection of writings which are frequently contradictory and quite horrific. The New Testament represent the politics of the early Byzantine empire and is striking in terms of what gospels were left out.
Ok. Firstly the original dates in the bible and timing is admittedly inaccurate but God didn't write it he just spread the word.
None of the timings should be taken lie literal they are metaphoric, the 7 days for example, we are speaking in time format from before time existed, each of the 7 days wasn't literal it was just an order of events.
The Protestant church as I said before take on board the bible as a teaching as a way of life, a way we should behave and treat our fellow man, I take this part very seriously, this is why I have risen above the obvious taunting and jibing from one or 2 in particular.
I have also previously stated that it is difficult to understand and/appreciate faith in God, unless he shows himself to you this can be in different ways or experiences, until one truly opens their heart and mind and let's Christ in. ( cliche again sorry) snd actually feels the same closeness and whole ness that Christians feel it is impossible to comprehend.
Finally the person that says there's been no miracles in the last 2000 years, you are very wrong, there are miracles everywhere all the time, people getting pregnant after being told they are infertile, babies surviving being born at 23 weeks gestation, people awaking from comas when they are classed as brain dead.an example for you My neighbours child when born was brain damaged and had a multitude of problems, she was first told he wouldn't survive the birth he did, he wouldn't live past 2 he did, he wouldn't walk, talk, make eye contact, feed himself, guess what, he did. He is now 21 years old in, has left special needs education and is on a work placement in a farm, he walks other peoples dogs as a little business he does and although he is very small and doesn't talk well he talks enough and he is a lovely lad. She'd argue miracle, I can give plenty of examples of miracles on earth as I'm sure if you really think about it so could you.
I would have to politely disagree on that. The bible does not at all state that the earth is young. No passage in the bible says that the earth is not billions of years old. The Genesis account has long been considered to be a metaphorical take on creation and I know of no one who takes it completely literally. Once again, it is all about the context in which things are written. There are other folks, Sadie included who might be able to make this point more eloquently than myself.
Just one question, if god gave humans the ability for rational thought, why is there any need for a Bible that, for many people, just tells people what to do, think and how to behave? ( I was raised as an RC and kept in a convent for rather too long) Couldn't we have worked it for ourselves? Am I any the less moral for not accepting the teachings of the Bible? I just sometimes grow very weary that some people think my soul needs saving and determine that they will convert me to their god. If we are not harming anyone else, then live and let live.
The bible doesn't necessarily tell us 'what to do' It may outline some simple things like forgiving those around us because it does us no good not to. Anyone carry around unforgiveness (if that's a word), resentment or bitterness? I know I have and it does me no good. Jesus never forces us to do anything, in stead he encourages us not to engage in behaviour that isn't beneficial for us. Some people have to do these things in order to find out rather than just by listening to Jesus' word in the first place, myself included, before realising and that is fine. We just have to deal with the baggage those misguided decisions inevitably bring along.
Ok. Firstly the original dates in the bible and timing is admittedly inaccurate but God didn't write it he just spread the word.
None of the timings should be taken lie literal they are metaphoric, the 7 days for example, we are speaking in time format from before time existed, each of the 7 days wasn't literal it was just an order of events.
The Protestant church as I said before take on board the bible as a teaching as a way of life, a way we should behave and treat our fellow man, I take this part very seriously, this is why I have risen above the obvious taunting and jibing from one or 2 in particular.
I have also previously stated that it is difficult to understand and/appreciate faith in God, unless he shows himself to you this can be in different ways or experiences, until one truly opens their heart and mind and let's Christ in. ( cliche again sorry) snd actually feels the same closeness and whole ness that Christians feel it is impossible to comprehend.
Finally the person that says there's been no miracles in the last 2000 years, you are very wrong, there are miracles everywhere all the time, people getting pregnant after being told they are infertile, babies surviving being born at 23 weeks gestation, people awaking from comas when they are classed as brain dead.an example for you My neighbours child when born was brain damaged and had a multitude of problems, she was first told he wouldn't survive the birth he did, he wouldn't live past 2 he did, he wouldn't walk, talk, make eye contact, feed himself, guess what, he did. He is now 21 years old in, has left special needs education and is on a work placement in a farm, he walks other peoples dogs as a little business he does and although he is very small and doesn't talk well he talks enough and he is a lovely lad. She'd argue miracle, I can give plenty of examples of miracles on earth as I'm sure if you really think about it so could you.
'Twas I that said that, and I very much stand by it, I am, as I am sure you are fully aware, talking about miracles of your biblical kind - serpents into sticks etc credited to holy men, not unexpected, spontaneous happy events. You are swerving the question Sadie, albeit rather skillfully... :-)
On the other matter I would be interested to know if your neighbours child been brought to this happy place purely by prayer, or has science and medicine played a part? It's great to hear that story either way.
People who read and believe the bible - please tell me you don't think the Earth is 6,000 years old.
And for those that don't, who chooses which bits of the Bible you should believe for you??
The bible doesn't claim the earth is only 6,000 years old. Out of curiosity have you done your own research or are you just going by what others (including perhaps misguided Christians who haven't read the bible) say?
Jesus said seek and you will find. I found that to be true.
A lot of people on here quote intellectuals as if they are the ones to judge the merits of faith in God - however, a person's relationship with God is not based merely on intellect. If Dawkins doesn't believe so what? His opinion is worth no more than anyone else.
If you want intellectual reasons for trusting Jesus try someone like John Lennox or Stephen Meyer but there are plenty of other books by authors that go beyond 'Does God Exist?' questions and into knowing God for yourself. For example, Richard Wurmbrand, Corrie Ten Boom, Andrew White, Jackie Pullinger etc.
I could give examples of God working in my life and reasons to believe but a person who doesn't want to believe will continue not to do so...with the odd exception:
But things like feeding all those people and walking on water, don't you think they are just included in the stories by the writers to make people believe in the orders they are putting across.
It comes across like you must do what Jesus/we say....oh really, why's that?....he can walk on water so you must listen....oh ok then.
I would completely understand your issue with the bible 'telling us what to do' if it encouraged us to take up negative behaviour. Jesus taught us to love one another, to love those who despise us etc. not to walk around like a robot following a rigid set of rules. I get the sense that this is some people's impression of the bible. Once again, reading the accounts of Jesus will show that simply isn't the case. Do parents set guidelines for their children and is that seen as controlling or is it seen as a loving parent who is wiser than the infant and knows what's best. It is no different with God as he is all knowing.
This remains an interesting discussion - one to which I feel unable to contribute much of worth , sadly apart from stating which "side " I'm on.
However, since my last post, I have read the Sunday papers & watched the BBC news ...
Once again, it's no surprise that the headlines highlight the heart wrenching situations in both Syria/Iraq and Israel/Palestine. The loss of hundreds, maybe thousands of lives, the barbarity of one "sect" against another, the overwhelming inhumanity of one human being against another .....and yet some will deny that this has nothing to do with religion. That those guilty of such evil deeds do not act in the name of their God. Does the very term" Islamic State" not spell out the connection?
Extremists, yes. But extremists in which context & of what ? No prizes for guessing that one correctly....religious extremists.
Call me naïve, and maybe I am guilty of over simplification in this instance.
But I stand firm in my belief as stated in an earlier post. "If there was no religion, there would be no wars ".
( Flak jacket already donned...)
Your evidence has already been exposed as inaccurate. Religion does not cause wars and only a tiny minority (perhaps around 5%) of conflicts have any basis on religion. This is simply a lie that people throw around and others believe because they haven't researched it for themselves. And even if it was done in the name of religion, what does that mean about the credibility of religions across the world? Christianity teaches us to love those who hate us, so anyone who engages in that sort of behaviour clearly isn't living by the faith they claim to be doing it 'in the name' of. "By their fruit you shall know them." By your logic, none of us should follow football because it must be evil. People have died due to conflicts between sets of football fans across the world.
I hate religion because it causes nothing but trouble. During most wars we always had some kind of religion involvement and it causes more hatred. You got the situation in Gaza where religion is involved, you also have terrorist currently in Afghanistan who have some kind of hatred against Christianity.
What puzzles me about Christianity is the 10 commandments, one of them is thou shall not lie. Ok it's bad to lie but on occasions people lie for a nice reason, does this mean they go to hell because of it? I
I believe there is someone out who have created the universe whether it's God, Allah, Mr Blobby, Jesus or someone else I just really don't know. I also believe in reincarnation and we learn from our previous life.
As a British person, I have adapted to the British culture and the way of life so I do celebrate events like Christmas and even like the religious songs but it does not mean I believe Jesus existed let alone born on Christmas Day.
I personally think we should all be free to do what we want to do just as long as we are good people. I am certainly not letting religion dictating my life like the Islamic religion states they can't drink alcohol and they must pray at certain times during the day.
You do not go to heaven or hell based on how well you keep the ten commandments. That is claimed nowhere in the bible!
So the theory is god created the earth around 6000 years ago, what made him bury dinosaur fossils ?
I'm amazed at all of the comments against Christianity on this thread that have no biblical base whatsoever! Just so we're all clear, THE BIBLE DOESN'T SAY THAT THE EARTH IS 6,000 YEARS OLD. If you don't understand something, you don't understand it. If you don't want to believe, fair enough. But to make arguments against something you don't understand or haven't researched is silly (and that also goes to the misguided folk who thought that 'LOL'ing that comment was clever).
Jesus said seek and you will find. I found that to be true.
A lot of people on here quote intellectuals as if they are the ones to judge the merits of faith in God - however, a person's relationship with God is not based merely on intellect. If Dawkins doesn't believe so what? His opinion is worth no more than anyone else.
If you want intellectual reasons for trusting Jesus try someone like John Lennox or Stephen Meyer but there are plenty of other books by authors that go beyond 'Does God Exist?' questions and into knowing God for yourself. For example, Richard Wurmbrand, Corrie Ten Boom, Andrew White, Jackie Pullinger etc.
I could give examples of God working in my life and reasons to believe but a person who doesn't want to believe will continue not to do so...with the odd exception:
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
I have a GSCE in Religious Education (Catholic). In general, there is an argument to back up / justify any position you like in the Bible if you selectively quote. That involves good and bad actions.
Religion can be individually helpful and provides a sense of community. It is belief and opinion. Ultimately it is a matter of faith that cannot be proven one or other.
With all due respect to Addick in SW16.
There is some truth in that. What is important is the context. Knowing why and when a passage was written and having a background of the particular scripture.
I though the bible was "the word"? Am I missing the contemporary "help notes", or the "Making of" video somewhere along the line that no one has told me about? A bible "idiots guide" that was written at the time perhaps?
Oh dear. All I was saying is that a bible verse in isolation can be taken out of context and manipulated as with any text. To know the full meaning of the text it is important to know it's context. Usually just knowing the full body of a particular passage to know what a particular verse is saying.
So the theory is god created the earth around 6000 years ago, what made him bury dinosaur fossils ?
I'm amazed at all of the comments against Christianity on this thread that have no biblical base whatsoever! Just so we're all clear, THE BIBLE DOESN'T SAY THAT THE EARTH IS 6,000 YEARS OLD. If you don't understand something, you don't understand it. If you don't want to believe, fair enough. But to make arguments against something you don't understand or haven't researched is silly (and that also goes to the misguided folk who thought that 'LOL'ing that comment was clever).
If you add all the years in the bible it comes to about 6000 years. I know this because I just read it on creation.com. If anyone wants a laugh take a look at that site.
A Christian once said to me, "do you know what, it might not be true, but when I approach death at least I'll know I tried to live a loving and generous life by following the teachings of the Gospel."
Although I struggle to believe in it all, I still admire that statement today, some 20 years later.
So the theory is god created the earth around 6000 years ago, what made him bury dinosaur fossils ?
I'm amazed at all of the comments against Christianity on this thread that have no biblical base whatsoever! Just so we're all clear, THE BIBLE DOESN'T SAY THAT THE EARTH IS 6,000 YEARS OLD. If you don't understand something, you don't understand it. If you don't want to believe, fair enough. But to make arguments against something you don't understand or haven't researched is silly (and that also goes to the misguided folk who thought that 'LOL'ing that comment was clever).
If you add all the years in the bible it comes to about 6000 years. I know this because I just read it on creation.com. If anyone wants a laugh take a look at that site.
"If anyone wants a laugh"? See, this is why I'm only dipping in and out here. Misinformed people who aren't here to discuss but instead throw arrows at people who have faith and are only trying to state why they believe. You've only revealed your true colours and this is the sort of reason why many people can't have a grown up, sensible debate about religion.
And just to top it off, you're wrong. It is a huge presumption to say you can look through events of the bible and work out exactly how old earth is and in my experience you can't. The bible simply does not state that earth is young. Some Christians may believe it but many biblical scholars don't.
Absolutely correct. There is nowhere in the bible where it says an age on the earth. The whole evolution v creation thing was spurred by people who tried to argue the bible. We could have still had evolution with there being a creator.
I went to a Catholic school and was forced to study RE up to O level. And I managed to pass so I am not misinformed. You don't appear to have a sense of humour, at least not about religion.
I went to a Catholic school and was forced to study RE up to O level. And I managed to pass so I am not misinformed. You don't appear to have a sense of humour, at least not about religion.
If you were trying to be humerous, I apologise. However, it appears you were trying to be clever and snide, laughing at the expense of others which wasn't what I thought was 'in the spirit of the thread'. I know people who have a masters in theology who will argue that you are wrong. Anyway what it comes down to is that you cannot exactly pinpoint the sequence of events in the Old Testament and claim that the Bible tells us how old the planet Earth is.
But things like feeding all those people and walking on water, don't you think they are just included in the stories by the writers to make people believe in the orders they are putting across.
It comes across like you must do what Jesus/we say....oh really, why's that?....he can walk on water so you must listen....oh ok then.
I would completely understand your issue with the bible 'telling us what to do' if it encouraged us to take up negative behaviour. Jesus taught us to love one another, to love those who despise us etc. not to walk around like a robot following a rigid set of rules. I get the sense that this is some people's impression of the bible. Once again, reading the accounts of Jesus will show that simply isn't the case. Do parents set guidelines for their children and is that seen as controlling or is it seen as a loving parent who is wiser than the infant and knows what's best. It is no different with God as he is all knowing.
My parents mostly used real life situations to teach me good and bad, those determined by feelings human beings are naturally given. It's something that evolution has given us and why we are more developed than all the other species on earth. If my parents used a fairy tale or fable, we were told exactly that, it's a fairy tale, told to give you examples of morals, they are not to be taken literally. I know a hare and a tortoise didn't agree to have a race just as I know that Jesus never walked on water. One defies nature and the other defies physics. Fortunately Science has taught us how much fiction is in the bible and by most its no longer taken literally, however for hundreds of years it was and in some cases it still is.
The last sentence I have a huge problem with 'God is all knowing'. What does that even mean? i hope this doesnt come across as aggressive but it seems to me like a massive cop out so that non-believers and believers can't even begin to try and understand its just something we must accept. Were those words in the bible or is there any hard evidence that God is all knowing??
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
I have a GSCE in Religious Education (Catholic). In general, there is an argument to back up / justify any position you like in the Bible if you selectively quote. That involves good and bad actions.
Religion can be individually helpful and provides a sense of community. It is belief and opinion. Ultimately it is a matter of faith that cannot be proven one or other.
With all due respect to Addick in SW16.
There is some truth in that. What is important is the context. Knowing why and when a passage was written and having a background of the particular scripture.
I though the bible was "the word"? Am I missing the contemporary "help notes", or the "Making of" video somewhere along the line that no one has told me about? A bible "idiots guide" that was written at the time perhaps?
Oh dear. All I was saying is that a bible verse in isolation can be taken out of context and manipulated as with any text. To know the full meaning of the text it is important to know it's context. Usually just knowing the full body of a particular passage to know what a particular verse is saying.
I will ignore the "Oh dear", in the spirit of this debate.
You mention three aspects of biblical study: Why, when and background.
The why is about control, though I am fully aware you do not interpret it like that.
The when is at least three generations after the supposed events according to you; the vast majority written much, much later and to suit the politics of the time. By the fact that you failed to answer my question about Paul's letter to the Corinthians, I take it as read that it is in fact hearsay, and that original text - and indeed others like it - do not actually exist.
The background is entirely open to debate, "biblical scholars" interpretations of the events in the main - it is clear from your writings that as well as the bible you have read at least some of this work and have formed an opinion based on some of that. The truth isn't really known (other than things like yes, there was a king called Herod etc), it's just some bloke's take on the subject, often made with a hidden agenda to do with control, once again.
For hundreds of years those scholars attested that the earth was indeed 6000 years old, and the church stubbornly stood by that as a fact until scientific evidence proved it wrong (unless you are a mid-west bible belt creation nutter...). You are right, it does not say it in the bible, but the church stated it as fact nonetheless. Had you been studying your scholars pre-Darwin, you would almost certainly have been saying exactly the same thing.
It strikes me that when a religious "teaching" is either proved to be nonsense or sounds a bit daft then it's is not meant to be taken literally but is very handily a metaphor. The other bits that are less contentious are "the word of god"
But things like feeding all those people and walking on water, don't you think they are just included in the stories by the writers to make people believe in the orders they are putting across.
It comes across like you must do what Jesus/we say....oh really, why's that?....he can walk on water so you must listen....oh ok then.
I would completely understand your issue with the bible 'telling us what to do' if it encouraged us to take up negative behaviour. Jesus taught us to love one another, to love those who despise us etc. not to walk around like a robot following a rigid set of rules. I get the sense that this is some people's impression of the bible. Once again, reading the accounts of Jesus will show that simply isn't the case. Do parents set guidelines for their children and is that seen as controlling or is it seen as a loving parent who is wiser than the infant and knows what's best. It is no different with God as he is all knowing.
My parents mostly used real life situations to teach me good and bad, those determined by feelings human beings are naturally given. It's something that evolution has given us and why we are more developed than all the other species on earth. If my parents used a fairy tale or fable, we were told exactly that, it's a fairy tale, told to give you examples of morals, they are not to be taken literally. I know a hare and a tortoise didn't agree to have a race just as I know that Jesus never walked on water. One defies nature and the other defies physics. Fortunately Science has taught us how much fiction is in the bible and by most its no longer taken literally, however for hundreds of years it was and in some cases it still is.
The last sentence I have a huge problem with 'God is all knowing'. What does that even mean? i hope this doesnt come across as aggressive but it seems to me like a massive cop out so that non-believers and believers can't even begin to try and understand its just something we must accept. Were those words in the bible or is there any hard evidence that God is all knowing??
I feel you've missed the point. I'm saying that if you can enter for just a sec into my world which to you is make belief (I promise not to keep you there for long) if God exists, the guidelines in the bible are not fairy tales or fables to him and if God does exist, he doesn't need human experience to be able to teach us anything because he is the creator of all but Jesus did walk the earth and as we believe in Jesus, he has pretty good understanding of what life is like. If God exists, this isn't like putting your faith in Dawkins who would himself have to admit knows very little about the big universe and some if it's unexplainable mysteries despite being extremely well educated and wise in a lot of people's eyes.
And I cannot give you hard evidence of God being all knowing, but that is part of having faith. I have experienced it and obviously that isn't and probably shouldn't be enough for you.
Comments
Recommend " A Universe From Nothing" Lawrence Krauss - No God required!
None of the timings should be taken lie literal they are metaphoric, the 7 days for example, we are speaking in time format from before time existed, each of the 7 days wasn't literal it was just an order of events.
The Protestant church as I said before take on board the bible as a teaching as a way of life, a way we should behave and treat our fellow man, I take this part very seriously, this is why I have risen above the obvious taunting and jibing from one or 2 in particular.
I have also previously stated that it is difficult to understand and/appreciate faith in God, unless he shows himself to you this can be in different ways or experiences, until one truly opens their heart and mind and let's Christ in. ( cliche again sorry) snd actually feels the same closeness and whole ness that Christians feel it is impossible to comprehend.
Finally the person that says there's been no miracles in the last 2000 years, you are very wrong, there are miracles everywhere all the time, people getting pregnant after being told they are infertile, babies surviving being born at 23 weeks gestation, people awaking from comas when they are classed as brain dead.an example for you My neighbours child when born was brain damaged and had a multitude of problems, she was first told he wouldn't survive the birth he did, he wouldn't live past 2 he did, he wouldn't walk, talk, make eye contact, feed himself, guess what, he did. He is now 21 years old in, has left special needs education and is on a work placement in a farm, he walks other peoples dogs as a little business he does and although he is very small and doesn't talk well he talks enough and he is a lovely lad. She'd argue miracle, I can give plenty of examples of miracles on earth as I'm sure if you really think about it so could you.
I am a humanist and have strong beliefs about how to treat my fellow humans, animals and our wonderful planet - (and regarding the eventual rise to greatness of Charlton). Most of the more acceptable elements of Christian belief are by no means either unique to Christianity, or originally Christian. Morality does not hinge on a God. Indeed morality is very often absent from the practice of Religion, which has is a shameful history of persecution, abuse, war and hatred, inspired by and pursued in the name of "God".
As for the bible not being taken literally, well it is often cited as a source of Christian teaching isn't it? Indeed the entire Protestant movement focused upon the availability of the bible, in an accessible language as being the word of God.
The truth is that the bible it is a very inaccurate selection of writings which are frequently contradictory and quite horrific. The New Testament represent the politics of the early Byzantine empire and is striking in terms of what gospels were left out.
Bronze Age scribblings are no way to run a world.
On the other matter I would be interested to know if your neighbours child been brought to this happy place purely by prayer, or has science and medicine played a part? It's great to hear that story either way.
A lot of people on here quote intellectuals as if they are the ones to judge the merits of faith in God - however, a person's relationship with God is not based merely on intellect. If Dawkins doesn't believe so what? His opinion is worth no more than anyone else.
If you want intellectual reasons for trusting Jesus try someone like John Lennox or Stephen Meyer but there are plenty of other books by authors that go beyond 'Does God Exist?' questions and into knowing God for yourself. For example, Richard Wurmbrand, Corrie Ten Boom, Andrew White, Jackie Pullinger etc.
I could give examples of God working in my life and reasons to believe but a person who doesn't want to believe will continue not to do so...with the odd exception:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/There-God-Notorious-Atheist-Changed-ebook/dp/B000W9169S/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407796642&sr=1-1&keywords=anthony+flew+there+is+a+god
And... What ^^^he said!!^^^
Although I struggle to believe in it all, I still admire that statement today, some 20 years later.
And just to top it off, you're wrong. It is a huge presumption to say you can look through events of the bible and work out exactly how old earth is and in my experience you can't. The bible simply does not state that earth is young. Some Christians may believe it but many biblical scholars don't.
The last sentence I have a huge problem with 'God is all knowing'. What does that even mean? i hope this doesnt come across as aggressive but it seems to me like a massive cop out so that non-believers and believers can't even begin to try and understand its just something we must accept. Were those words in the bible or is there any hard evidence that God is all knowing??
You mention three aspects of biblical study: Why, when and background.
The why is about control, though I am fully aware you do not interpret it like that.
The when is at least three generations after the supposed events according to you; the vast majority written much, much later and to suit the politics of the time. By the fact that you failed to answer my question about Paul's letter to the Corinthians, I take it as read that it is in fact hearsay, and that original text - and indeed others like it - do not actually exist.
The background is entirely open to debate, "biblical scholars" interpretations of the events in the main - it is clear from your writings that as well as the bible you have read at least some of this work and have formed an opinion based on some of that. The truth isn't really known (other than things like yes, there was a king called Herod etc), it's just some bloke's take on the subject, often made with a hidden agenda to do with control, once again.
For hundreds of years those scholars attested that the earth was indeed 6000 years old, and the church stubbornly stood by that as a fact until scientific evidence proved it wrong (unless you are a mid-west bible belt creation nutter...). You are right, it does not say it in the bible, but the church stated it as fact nonetheless. Had you been studying your scholars pre-Darwin, you would almost certainly have been saying exactly the same thing.
Cake and eat it spring to mind.
I feel you've missed the point. I'm saying that if you can enter for just a sec into my world which to you is make belief (I promise not to keep you there for long) if God exists, the guidelines in the bible are not fairy tales or fables to him and if God does exist, he doesn't need human experience to be able to teach us anything because he is the creator of all but Jesus did walk the earth and as we believe in Jesus, he has pretty good understanding of what life is like. If God exists, this isn't like putting your faith in Dawkins who would himself have to admit knows very little about the big universe and some if it's unexplainable mysteries despite being extremely well educated and wise in a lot of people's eyes.
And I cannot give you hard evidence of God being all knowing, but that is part of having faith. I have experienced it and obviously that isn't and probably shouldn't be enough for you.