Pope was taking longer than ten seconds for every drop kick. So long that I started timing him on the stadium clock. 12 seconds was shortest. So I guess it must be a foul if he exceeds this time limit. But if it's a direct free kick then, if was in his area, it's a pen? If he's outside then it's for the linesman to call handball, and I didn't see a flag! And why didn't we hoof it and not try to dribble it away when we got possession from the free kick?
Be good to see that happen at the Valley with opposition Goalkeepers this season then?
is there a rule that says the oppo gets a free kick for time wasting? ( something is vaguely ringing in my head about that) If so, is it a direct free kick? If so, and since most keepers time waste in their own box, can anyone remember seeing such a free kick awarded inside the box?
If that's the rule, fair enough, but then it needs to be applied by every ref, every time, every week.
Nothing about a free kick though for time, or anything else in a GK situation other than touching the ball again before it has left the box!
Goal kick From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A goal kick, called a goalie kick in some regions, is a method of restarting play in a game of association football. Its procedure is dictated by Law 16 of the Laws of the Game.
A goal kick is awarded to the defending team when the ball goes out of the field of play by crossing, either on the ground or in the air, the goal line (but not the portion between the posts and under the crossbar which would constitute a goal) when the last person to touch the ball was from the attacking team. If the last person to touch the ball was a member of the defending side, a corner kick is instead awarded to the attackers.
A goal kick is awarded to the defending team when the ball is struck directly into the goal by the attacking team from an indirect free kick.
Procedure[edit] The ball is initially placed anywhere within the defending goal area. All opposing players must be outside the penalty area until the ball is in play. The ball must be kicked (a goalkeeper may not pick up the ball). The ball becomes in play as soon as it leaves the penalty area – if any player makes contact with the ball before it becomes in play the kick is retaken. If the ball fails to leave the penalty area the kick is retaken. A goal may be scored directly from a goal kick as a goal kick is a direct free kick, but only against the opposing team. An own goal cannot be scored from a goal kick; in the highly unlikely circumstance that the ball happened to land directly into the kicker's own goal a corner kick would be awarded to the opposing team. A player may not be penalised for being in an offside position directly from a goal kick.[2] Goal kicks are most often taken by goalkeepers, however this is not compulsory under the laws of the game. Infringements[edit] Opposing players must retire the required distance as stated above. Failure to do so promptly so may constitute misconduct and be punished by a caution (yellow card). If an opposing player enters the penalty area before the ball is in play, the goal kick may be retaken.
If any player touches the ball after it is kicked, but before it is in play (i.e. before the whole of the ball has left the penalty area), the goal kick is retaken. It is an infringement for the kicker to touch the ball a second time once the ball is in play (i.e. when it has left the penalty area), before it has been touched by another player – this is punishable by an indirect free kick to the opposing team from where the offence occurred, unless the second touch was also a more serious handling offence, which is punished by a direct free kick for the opposing team
They had 8 on target to our 2, Maybe Pope deserves more credit than I gave from the commentary.
I think the rose tinting is taking over on some of you lot though.
We are not playing this lovely football you all seem to think we are. Our possession reflects this!
We do need a decent partner for Vetokele and Bob needs a better plan B than putting our big lump slow CB's up front.
Lots of love Ex Rose Tinted Dazzler
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Christ i'd hate to see how depressed you were last season. Didn't expect much else. Probably highlights the need for a couple players. Onto saturday
I wasn't depressed last season as expectations hadn't been built up.
That's 2 poor performances in a row, though only one seemed to really matter as we snuck a result out of the other one.
Brentford - Poor - I really don't get why people thought that was a good point? Colchester - V.Good Wigan - Good Derby - Strong upfront, poor at the back. Huddersfield - V.Poor, but Lucky Derby - Poor
Mr owner we have disappointment from mr dazzler! Send back Vetokele tucudean buyens gudmusson Ben hiam bikey Moussa to there they came from and keep the shite of last season!! ;-)
Why would Charlton be timewasting at 0-0 in a match that has to be resolved on the night? Probably the best thing is that the match was resolved without playing the extra 30 minutes (although better, obviously, if it had been resolved in our favour). The only reason I can see to waste time is to get to penalties, but it seems a bit extreme in the context.
Glad we're out in a way, no disrespect to the cup or whoever wins it as I think it's an achievement to win for most clubs, but our squad just isn't big enough for cup runs and I'd rather the results in the league. Just take the positives, Derby fans praising Bikey which is assuring and Pope stepping up. Losing 1-0 to Derby isn't bad when you look at their squad and expectations.
Don't understand the confusion re. the late free kick - it was an indirect free kick just inside the penalty area for Pope holding the ball for more than 6 seconds in accordance with Law 12.
Not saying it was right to penalise him, but having given the decision the correct outcome was (eventually) reached. Although even the ref seemed confused as he tried to give a dropped ball to start with!
I'm sure the truth will come out about Pope, the free kick and the booking later in the week but sounds like there were two infringements coinciding - handling just outside the box and time wasting? As to why he would do it, well keepers under pressure all game ofter slow the game down - perhaps he had an eye on securing extra time?
In the bigger scheme of things, playing Derby home and away in a week and securing 3-3 on aggregate would have been unthinkable 8 months ago when M.Duchatelet took over. We have come along way but it will be hard work to stay where we have just arrived.
To me Brighton away is far more important than the cup since the monthly points tally in August and how we perform will be a good indicator for September and the rest of the season. There's a two week break and we and the club can review what has happened - would just love to do that sitting in the top six - at the very least we should be top half after five games.
It is still unclear whether more high value (in CAFC terms) players will join us but every game we play with this new look squad is another 90 minutes experience for the players, management and fans. Brighton appear to have lost some talent over the summer and it will be interesting to see how we come back after two games under the cosh... all this for the Brighton threads I know but just emphasising that for me it is the League that counts between now and FA Cup 3rd Round weekend in January.
No idea what free kick was for, whole ground mystified but it unsettled us and goal soon after. Derby on the way out thought we were tricky opponents and a vast improvement on last year. Gomez really stood out for me, deserves a league start. Looked very assured and confident in defence and attack. Pope under more threat in second half as Derby pressure began to tell. Not sure extra time would have been of any benefit, shame to go out but miles better than Huddersfield and at times in first half really moving the ball around well.
Just home after a roundabout trip as Jcts 25-27 on good old M25 closed . So what's new after a trip north of Watford to watch our team ?
Anyway, I was disappointed with the lack of attacking play that we mustered tonight ( no stats to hand of course) and very disappointed with young Callum & Franck's contributions. REALLY hate picking out players to moan about but when I saw the starting line up, I thought this was Callum and Lawrie's best opportunity to show what they were made of....and, in my opinion, neither did so. And so far, Franck hasn't hit the spot for me , I'm afraid although as a friend pointed out this evening, he didn't have a pre season due to his back problem.
Yes, we were strong in defence with Bikey again standing out but for a match that required a result on the night, we gave Derby far too much space to keep coming forward & put us constantly on the back foot. If their shooting had been sharper & if it wasn't for Popey's safe hands, their win would have been sewn up far earlier in the game.
The free kick given against Pope perplexed us - initially thought he'd been booked for time wasting but after a minute or so , when he seemed to be lecturing our 'keeper, the ref indicated a free kick just outside the box. Surely, if he'd carried the ball out of his area, it should have been a red ? Utter confusion all round and the seeds of their winning strike were sown. That put paid to my interpretation of Bob's plan - to defend , defend, defend, whilst allowing the Rams to wear themselves out and on the 89th minute, we break away and score the winner. I know, sad woman, and totally deluded.
Maybe I expect too much of this squad at this early stage in the season & changes were made to our strongest line up ....Derby are a well organised team even without the likes of Ward & Martin and could well have been in the Prem but for a certain Mr B Zamora....and we rarely do well in Cup games....but I would be more satisfied with tonight's work if we had shown a bit more intent & worked their 'keeper. Lack of goals concerns me & another striker coming in toot sweet must be at the top of the manager's wish list but we also need to cut down on the occasions we give the ball away too cheaply ( IMHO)
So, on to Sussex by the sea. Let's hope we show more intent and give the TCBs more to think about than last time we visited. Lots to work on before Saturday and an unbeaten record in the League to extend. The travelling Addicks did their best to make some noise tonight but we really need to raise it for the lads in 4 days time.
A loss in the cup always hurts, but I thought we played a decent game. I agree with others on here that the cup would just be a distraction and that the most important thing is that we perform well in the league. I have a feeling that Roland and Bobby have a few ideas in mind and I am sure we will have 2 more quality signings come the end of august. As for Delort, id welcome him with open arms if the tours chairman stops being a twat!! But Bobby seems to know whats best for Charlton, so Ill believe in whoever he brings in #wisconsinaddick
Yep, very much as Fanny saw the game, overall I was disappointed. I felt both teams were quite cautious and at times it did have the air of a friendly. I felt in the first half Derby had a lot of room down the right wing but seemed to lack attacking sharpness. Fox was struggling a bit on that side in the first half and wasn't being supported that well by the midfield. Pope apart from flapping at one cross came to the rescue a good few times. I was disappointed in the lack of attacking spirit and it wasn't a great night for Lawrie or Callum. I felt that the build up of passes along either flank wasn't that great. Bikey played well, calm and self assured and played some great passes. I felt that Gomez did OK but didn't really stand out. The referee was clearly confused about what the hell he was doing with the Pope free kick, all the ground expected maybe a yellow card and for him to simply take the kick again. Then it looked like he wanted to drop kick and then with only one Charlton player in earshot suddenly it was a free kick. The urgency shown in the last few minutes should of been there much earlier and we would of won this game. Oh well its saturday that matters tons more, lets hope they find some hunger and pace for that one.
Don't understand the confusion re. the late free kick - it was an indirect free kick just inside the penalty area for Pope holding the ball for more than 6 seconds in accordance with Law 12.
Not saying it was right to penalise him, but having given the decision the correct outcome was (eventually) reached. Although even the ref seemed confused as he tried to give a dropped ball to start with!
Thanks, I looked it up, and indeed there it is
An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following four offences:
controls the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it from his possession
Seems most of us didnt know this, including the commentary team and both managers. When did you last see such a free kick awarded for this offence? In a Charlton game or any other?
I cannot remember a single one. And there is a good reason for that. It's a ridiculous law. Not least because it allows the ref to arbitrarily choose where the kick is taken. That decision could favour individual dead ball specialists like Andy Reid, who would prefer it to to be to one side rather than dead centre.
We need sensible laws and then we need them to be applied every time by all refs. Not by one obscure one who wants to make a name for himself.
Remember this when we are trailing 1-0 in the play-off final and their keeper is fannying around.
Pope was taking longer than ten seconds for every drop kick. So long that I started timing him on the stadium clock. 12 seconds was shortest. So I guess it must be a foul if he exceeds this time limit. But if it's a direct free kick then, if was in his area, it's a pen? If he's outside then it's for the linesman to call handball, and I didn't see a flag! And why didn't we hoof it and not try to dribble it away when we got possession from the free kick?
Pope was doing the same thing in the 2nd half of the league game v Derby. Each time he seemed to take longer and longer so it's no surprise if he's been pulled for it.
First of all, well done to big BP for showing he isn't afraid to uphold some long established traditions and get us out of this competition before September starts. When he arrived with his continental approach and new methods I was worried we would do something silly and flirt with the later stages of this competition.
For me, we've had a bloody good start to the season. This game was always going to be tough. They're a better team than us I feel. We've gone through a major upheaval over the summer. We're just about at the end of August, so we can't expect all our players to be a slick, well oiled machine, but I believe we're ahead of where BP probably wanted at this stage. Yeah by all accounts we didn't play well against Huddersfield and were ok(ish) tonight according to what other posters have said on here. However, we've got some talent. How much talent and how far I think we'll get is difficult to say. I reckon we're 2 players short of a push for the play offs (def a forward). If we get at least a forward in, then we could have a good crack. If not, I'm confident we'll have some decent wins along the way, but probably finish mid table. Up until Monday night will be interesting, especially now Delort may be heading to Wigan. Does SL missing out on the CL make a difference. Will we be getting another one of their players (have we reached our max quota)? I think we need to look elsewhere. I'm confident RD and KM have alternatives to Delort.
Overall I don't see how anyone can have any complaints as to what we've achieved thus far. Turn the clock back a year. Gower, Sordell, Church and Pritchard on the right......
is there a rule that says the oppo gets a free kick for time wasting? ( something is vaguely ringing in my head about that) If so, is it a direct free kick? If so, and since most keepers time waste in their own box, can anyone remember seeing such a free kick awarded inside the box?
If that's the rule, fair enough, but then it needs to be applied by every ref, every time, every week.
One occasion that readily springs to mind PA, also saw us eliminated from the League Cup. The 5/6 second rule was introduced in the 1997/98 season & Andy Petterson was an early victim in the game against Ipswich at The Valley. Mark Venus scored after the ball was rolled to him.
Pleased we're out and in 90 mins too. Perhaps that isnt the right attitude to have but we're a bit thin on the ground and with a couple of injuries in certain areas our lack of depth will show (eg Igor, Gudmun, any of the CM). Can do without this cup.
Not too worried by the stats and 1-0 away isnt a bad result either. At least we didnt get battered. Lets hope for at least a point at Brighton and a couple of new signings in this week.
It's gutting to lose in the manner we did with a poor refs decision but would have been more had it been in the league and in April of last season in particular. Still doesn't stop me thinking that the ref was a total scumbag for what he did though.
Just watched highlights, Cousins switching off big time for their goal, often seems to lose concentration, but he is still young. Don't think we need worry about Pope's shot stopping and if his kicking and distribution can be improved could be the genuine article.
We played very narrow for the whole game. The right and left fullbacks and wide midfield men were positioned 10 metres in from the touchline. This reduces the space in central midfield so makes us more difficult to break down by teams playing through the middle of the pitch. The downside was when their wingers received the ball they were not closely marked and were allowed to build up some speed and run at our full backs. Last night Derby's crossing was not great, so it wasn't too much of a problem, but against teams with a better delivery from wide it may become an issue. It was definitely a deliberate tactic. On the Pope free kick, he was taking ages to clear the ball when it was in his hands and should learn from this. My criticism of the ref is that I did not see him warn Pope beforehand before awarding the free kick. I'm sure it was for the 6 second rule and not handball outside the box as the linesman didn't flag. Gomez should probably start before Solly on the two performances I've seen him play, sad as it is for me to say.
Comments
If so, is it a direct free kick?
If so, and since most keepers time waste in their own box, can anyone remember seeing such a free kick awarded inside the box?
If that's the rule, fair enough, but then it needs to be applied by every ref, every time, every week.
Goal kick
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A goal kick, called a goalie kick in some regions, is a method of restarting play in a game of association football. Its procedure is dictated by Law 16 of the Laws of the Game.
A goal kick is awarded to the defending team when the ball goes out of the field of play by crossing, either on the ground or in the air, the goal line (but not the portion between the posts and under the crossbar which would constitute a goal) when the last person to touch the ball was from the attacking team. If the last person to touch the ball was a member of the defending side, a corner kick is instead awarded to the attackers.
A goal kick is awarded to the defending team when the ball is struck directly into the goal by the attacking team from an indirect free kick.
Procedure[edit]
The ball is initially placed anywhere within the defending goal area. All opposing players must be outside the penalty area until the ball is in play. The ball must be kicked (a goalkeeper may not pick up the ball).
The ball becomes in play as soon as it leaves the penalty area – if any player makes contact with the ball before it becomes in play the kick is retaken. If the ball fails to leave the penalty area the kick is retaken.
A goal may be scored directly from a goal kick as a goal kick is a direct free kick, but only against the opposing team. An own goal cannot be scored from a goal kick; in the highly unlikely circumstance that the ball happened to land directly into the kicker's own goal a corner kick would be awarded to the opposing team.
A player may not be penalised for being in an offside position directly from a goal kick.[2]
Goal kicks are most often taken by goalkeepers, however this is not compulsory under the laws of the game.
Infringements[edit]
Opposing players must retire the required distance as stated above. Failure to do so promptly so may constitute misconduct and be punished by a caution (yellow card). If an opposing player enters the penalty area before the ball is in play, the goal kick may be retaken.
If any player touches the ball after it is kicked, but before it is in play (i.e. before the whole of the ball has left the penalty area), the goal kick is retaken. It is an infringement for the kicker to touch the ball a second time once the ball is in play (i.e. when it has left the penalty area), before it has been touched by another player – this is punishable by an indirect free kick to the opposing team from where the offence occurred, unless the second touch was also a more serious handling offence, which is punished by a direct free kick for the opposing team
Not saying it was right to penalise him, but having given the decision the correct outcome was (eventually) reached. Although even the ref seemed confused as he tried to give a dropped ball to start with!
In the bigger scheme of things, playing Derby home and away in a week and securing 3-3 on aggregate would have been unthinkable 8 months ago when M.Duchatelet took over. We have come along way but it will be hard work to stay where we have just arrived.
To me Brighton away is far more important than the cup since the monthly points tally in August and how we perform will be a good indicator for September and the rest of the season. There's a two week break and we and the club can review what has happened - would just love to do that sitting in the top six - at the very least we should be top half after five games.
It is still unclear whether more high value (in CAFC terms) players will join us but every game we play with this new look squad is another 90 minutes experience for the players, management and fans. Brighton appear to have lost some talent over the summer and it will be interesting to see how we come back after two games under the cosh... all this for the Brighton threads I know but just emphasising that for me it is the League that counts between now and FA Cup 3rd Round weekend in January.
Pope under more threat in second half as Derby pressure began to tell. Not sure extra time would have been of any benefit, shame to go out but miles better than Huddersfield and at times in first half really moving the ball around well.
Anyway, I was disappointed with the lack of attacking play that we mustered tonight ( no stats to hand of course) and very disappointed with young Callum & Franck's contributions. REALLY hate picking out players to moan about but when I saw the starting line up, I thought this was Callum and Lawrie's best opportunity to show what they were made of....and, in my opinion, neither did so. And so far, Franck hasn't hit the spot for me , I'm afraid although as a friend pointed out this evening, he didn't have a pre season due to his back problem.
Yes, we were strong in defence with Bikey again standing out but for a match that required a result on the night, we gave Derby far too much space to keep coming forward & put us constantly on the back foot. If their shooting had been sharper & if it wasn't for Popey's safe hands, their win would have been sewn up far earlier in the game.
The free kick given against Pope perplexed us - initially thought he'd been booked for time wasting but after a minute or so , when he seemed to be lecturing our 'keeper, the ref indicated a free kick just outside the box. Surely, if he'd carried the ball out of his area, it should have been a red ? Utter confusion all round and the seeds of their winning strike were sown. That put paid to my interpretation of Bob's plan - to defend , defend, defend, whilst allowing the Rams to wear themselves out and on the 89th minute, we break away and score the winner. I know, sad woman, and totally deluded.
Maybe I expect too much of this squad at this early stage in the season & changes were made to our strongest line up ....Derby are a well organised team even without the likes of Ward & Martin and could well have been in the Prem but for a certain Mr B Zamora....and we rarely do well in Cup games....but I would be more satisfied with tonight's work if we had shown a bit more intent & worked their 'keeper. Lack of goals concerns me & another striker coming in toot sweet must be at the top of the manager's wish list but we also need to cut down on the occasions we give the ball away too cheaply ( IMHO)
So, on to Sussex by the sea. Let's hope we show more intent and give the TCBs more to think about than last time we visited. Lots to work on before Saturday and an unbeaten record in the League to extend. The travelling Addicks did their best to make some noise tonight but we really need to raise it for the lads in 4 days time.
COYA !!!!!!
The referee was clearly confused about what the hell he was doing with the Pope free kick, all the ground expected maybe a yellow card and for him to simply take the kick again. Then it looked like he wanted to drop kick and then with only one Charlton player in earshot suddenly it was a free kick. The urgency shown in the last few minutes should of been there much earlier and we would of won this game. Oh well its saturday that matters tons more, lets hope they find some hunger and pace for that one.
The official twitter said pope was booked for carrying the ball out the box. So that's what the free kick was for. Not time wasting.
An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following four offences:
controls the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it from his possession
Seems most of us didnt know this, including the commentary team and both managers. When did you last see such a free kick awarded for this offence? In a Charlton game or any other?
I cannot remember a single one. And there is a good reason for that. It's a ridiculous law. Not least because it allows the ref to arbitrarily choose where the kick is taken. That decision could favour individual dead ball specialists like Andy Reid, who would prefer it to to be to one side rather than dead centre.
We need sensible laws and then we need them to be applied every time by all refs. Not by one obscure one who wants to make a name for himself.
Remember this when we are trailing 1-0 in the play-off final and their keeper is fannying around.
For me, we've had a bloody good start to the season. This game was always going to be tough. They're a better team than us I feel. We've gone through a major upheaval over the summer. We're just about at the end of August, so we can't expect all our players to be a slick, well oiled machine, but I believe we're ahead of where BP probably wanted at this stage. Yeah by all accounts we didn't play well against Huddersfield and were ok(ish) tonight according to what other posters have said on here. However, we've got some talent. How much talent and how far I think we'll get is difficult to say. I reckon we're 2 players short of a push for the play offs (def a forward). If we get at least a forward in, then we could have a good crack. If not, I'm confident we'll have some decent wins along the way, but probably finish mid table. Up until Monday night will be interesting, especially now Delort may be heading to Wigan. Does SL missing out on the CL make a difference. Will we be getting another one of their players (have we reached our max quota)? I think we need to look elsewhere. I'm confident RD and KM have alternatives to Delort.
Overall I don't see how anyone can have any complaints as to what we've achieved thus far. Turn the clock back a year. Gower, Sordell, Church and Pritchard on the right......
Still, if we're going to have bad luck with refs, I'd rather it came in the cups. (easy for me to say not having travelled up there!)
Not too worried by the stats and 1-0 away isnt a bad result either. At least we didnt get battered. Lets hope for at least a point at Brighton and a couple of new signings in this week.