Makes me wonder if the top English clubs are doing this deliberately in Europe...
i.e. force the Premier League to lose a Champions League spot, means that one of Arsenal / Chelsea / Man City / Man Utd will lose out on the mega bucks you get from competing in the competition which long terms means that particular team can no longer mount a serious title bid.
What's the logic behind people thinking Man Utd exiting the CL now, instead of in one game's time, will make any difference to their PL chances? They'll now be playing more games in the Europa than they would have in the CL (unless they deliberately throw the first game/play heavily weakened teams each time) with potentially far more travelling and the universally hated (by players and managers) Thursday/Sunday routine. If anything I'd say this damages whatever chances they had in the PL, as well as denting their confidence and making their own fans more hostile to LVG.
What's the logic behind people thinking Man Utd exiting the CL now, instead of in one game's time, will make any difference to their PL chances? They'll now be playing more games in the Europa than they would have in the CL (unless they deliberately throw the first game/play heavily weakened teams each time) with potentially far more travelling and the universally hated (by players and managers) Thursday/Sunday routine. If anything I'd say this damages whatever chances they had in the PL, as well as denting their confidence and making their own fans more hostile to LVG.
I would suggest that they might just go the West Ham route and play players of a similar calibre to the likes of Poyet and Oxford - and United have greater depths in that respect anyway. Can't hear too many Hammer fans moaning about that and I'm sure that will be the same with United.
A PL top three place will be far more of a priority (and with the potential to win it too) and a progression from 7th to 4th to guaranteed CL football will be seen as progression. However boring the football is because it will give VG (or his successor) a platform to further improve the side on the attacking front. We also shouldn't forget that United have lost a shed load of top class players in the last few years and Fergie knew that when he left. Re-building rarely happens over night.
Can United afford to field weakened teams in the Europa league? The way they're playing they might need to win it to get in next seasons Champions league.
Quite amazing how they've managed to spend as much as they have, yet ended up with such a shambles of a side on the pitch last night and had Smalling up front in the last few minutes.
Can United afford to field weakened teams in the Europa league? The way they're playing they might need to win it to get in next seasons Champions league.
Quite amazing how they've managed to spend as much as they have, yet ended up with such a shambles of a side on the pitch last night and had Smalling up front in the last few minutes.
I feel like I'm swimming against the tide here but the facts are that United have lost once in the League since August - and that was when they were 3-0 down against Arsenal inside 20 minutes.
Equally, none of the top sides have hit their stride - Arsenal have lost to WBA and drawn against Norwich in their last three games and might well go out of the CL themselves tonight. City have lost to Stoke, been thrashed 4-1 at home by Liverpool and drawn against the worst team by a country mile in Villa - all in their last five League matches.
I also don't get the argument about Mourinho and his spending. Thank God that VG isn't managing Chelsea too because they already lost EIGHT League games and are just two points above the relegation zone. But, there again, Mourinho only has the likes of Diego Costa, Oscar, Willian and Hazard at his disposal, players who, when on form are world class. Hazard, a midfielder who more than any other player last season influenced a team's performance and yet this season hasn't found the net once and had just two assists in his 14 League starts - and yet has scored four goals for Belgium. Why is he going missing for Chelsea?
Can United afford to field weakened teams in the Europa league? The way they're playing they might need to win it to get in next seasons Champions league.
Quite amazing how they've managed to spend as much as they have, yet ended up with such a shambles of a side on the pitch last night and had Smalling up front in the last few minutes.
Hazard, a midfielder who more than any other player last season influenced a team's performance and yet this season hasn't found the net once and had just two assists in his 14 League starts - and yet has scored four goals for Belgium. Why is he going missing for Chelsea?
Can United afford to field weakened teams in the Europa league? The way they're playing they might need to win it to get in next seasons Champions league.
Quite amazing how they've managed to spend as much as they have, yet ended up with such a shambles of a side on the pitch last night and had Smalling up front in the last few minutes.
Hazard, a midfielder who more than any other player last season influenced a team's performance and yet this season hasn't found the net once and had just two assists in his 14 League starts - and yet has scored four goals for Belgium. Why is he going missing for Chelsea?
... and who cares
Only because it's indicative of how Mourinho is struggling to motivate his better players.
Got to say that being 33 and growing up watching the Premier League from its inception, I have always liked and wanted Man Utd to do well. I was never one of these people that couldn't stand them. From a young age I remember having a video called Eric the King, it was a great video and he is one of my all time favourite players. For me they have always had exciting teams, I used to enjoy Kanchelskis, Schmeichael is probably the best goalie in my lifetime. Then they had the new generation of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs etc. I remember my dad taking me to a youth cup semi final (I think) in 92 at the old den, standing behind the goal and seeing Scholes score a great volley (I had no idea who he was at the time).
It's probably more to do with my age and nostalgic pangs towards remembering your childhood football stars, but I was with them all the way in wanting them to win the Prem and do well in Europe. I also have complete adoration for Ferguson. I think the man is class. Consistent winner. None of this Arsenal shit where they dick all over Norwich 6-0 and Jonathan Pearce is cumming in his pants, but they get no trophies. I mean cold, hard winners.
This doesn't translate to me being particularly upset or bothered about their plight now. It's more, how the hell has it gone so bad. They just look shit. Like a bunch of individuals, managed by a man whose approach seems akin to watching George Graham when he came back to manage Spurs.
What a joke. Just spunking money on players like Herrera, Fellaini - awful player. The game they had against Arsenal last season in the cup at home was embarrassing. Just lumping it up to him as a target man?? Useless tactic being played out with average players.
Rooney has got progressively worse, he has no identity on the pitch anymore, he's so slow. They've got problems. As others have said, they are probably representative of the wider demise affecting England's top clubs. They're all regressing in my opinion. I think we are lucky to have the likes of Aguero still happy to play in the premiership at the moment. the top talent will only come here for money, they certainly aren't winning any trophies in Europe in the immediate future
Can United afford to field weakened teams in the Europa league? The way they're playing they might need to win it to get in next seasons Champions league.
Quite amazing how they've managed to spend as much as they have, yet ended up with such a shambles of a side on the pitch last night and had Smalling up front in the last few minutes.
I feel like I'm swimming against the tide here but the facts are that United have lost once in the League since August - and that was when they were 3-0 down against Arsenal inside 20 minutes.
Equally, none of the top sides have hit their stride - Arsenal have lost to WBA and drawn against Norwich in their last three games and might well go out of the CL themselves tonight. City have lost to Stoke, been thrashed 4-1 at home by Liverpool and drawn against the worst team by a country mile in Villa - all in their last five League matches.
I also don't get the argument about Mourinho and his spending. Thank God that VG isn't managing Chelsea too because they already lost EIGHT League games and are just two points above the relegation zone. But, there again, Mourinho only has the likes of Diego Costa, Oscar, Willian and Hazard at his disposal, players who, when on form are world class. Hazard, a midfielder who more than any other player last season influenced a team's performance and yet this season hasn't found the net once and had just two assists in his 14 League starts - and yet has scored four goals for Belgium. Why is he going missing for Chelsea?
I might be completely and utterly wrong, but I was under the impression Mourinho doesn't have full control of transfer policy at Chelsea. Certainly a lot of that squad came together before he re-joined (Cahill, Ivanovic, Ramires, Oscar, Hazard off the top of my head). I do think if he's given the funds to build the team as he wants it, he'll win the title.
Got to say that being 33 and growing up watching the Premier League from its inception, I have always liked and wanted Man Utd to do well. I was never one of these people that couldn't stand them. From a young age I remember having a video called Eric the King, it was a great video and he is one of my all time favourite players. For me they have always had exciting teams, I used to enjoy Kanchelskis, Schmeichael is probably the best goalie in my lifetime. Then they had the new generation of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs etc. I remember my dad taking me to a youth cup semi final (I think) in 92 at the old den, standing behind the goal and seeing Scholes score a great volley (I had no idea who he was at the time).
It's probably more to do with my age and nostalgic pangs towards remembering your childhood football stars, but I was with them all the way in wanting them to win the Prem and do well in Europe. I also have complete adoration for Ferguson. I think the man is class. Consistent winner. None of this Arsenal shit where they dick all over Norwich 6-0 and Jonathan Pearce is cumming in his pants, but they get no trophies. I mean cold, hard winners.
This doesn't translate to me being particularly upset or bothered about their plight now. It's more, how the hell has it gone so bad. They just look shit. Like a bunch of individuals, managed by a man whose approach seems akin to watching George Graham when he came back to manage Spurs.
What a joke. Just spunking money on players like Herrera, Fellaini - awful player. The game they had against Arsenal last season in the cup at home was embarrassing. Just lumping it up to him as a target man?? Useless tactic being played out with average players.
Rooney has got progressively worse, he has no identity on the pitch anymore, he's so slow. They've got problems. As others have said, they are probably representative of the wider demise affecting England's top clubs. They're all regressing in my opinion. I think we are lucky to have the likes of Aguero still happy to play in the premiership at the moment. the top talent will only come here for money, they certainly aren't winning any trophies in Europe in the immediate future
Great post but just a couple of points to make.
Fellaini was, of course, a Moyes panic buy and VG has had to play him due to his current lack of resources. The other thing to bear in mind is that last night's starting line up had an average age of under 25 - not many sides in the CL will be that inexperienced but VG has shown that he isn't afraid to throw in the youngsters.
And whilst the jury is out on some of these, he does have a crop for the future with no less than 19 players used by VG aged 26 or under of which ten are 22 or younger - Martial (20), Lingard (22), Varela (22), Depay (21), Shaw (20), Jones (23), De Gea (25), Smalling (26), McNair (20), Darmian (26), Janusaj (20), Borthwick-Jackson (18), Powell (21), Wilson (20), Pereira (19), Rojo (25), Blind (25), Herrera (26) & Schneiderlin (26).
By comparison, Chelsea have used just nine players this season who are 26 or younger - and this is the club that has more players on loan than any other probably in Europe. But they don't tend to ever come back from loan and play regularly for Chelsea do they?
So United are a work in progress. And I better get off this thread before I convince myself that it should be more than my pocket backing them!
Can United afford to field weakened teams in the Europa league? The way they're playing they might need to win it to get in next seasons Champions league.
Quite amazing how they've managed to spend as much as they have, yet ended up with such a shambles of a side on the pitch last night and had Smalling up front in the last few minutes.
I feel like I'm swimming against the tide here but the facts are that United have lost once in the League since August - and that was when they were 3-0 down against Arsenal inside 20 minutes.
Equally, none of the top sides have hit their stride - Arsenal have lost to WBA and drawn against Norwich in their last three games and might well go out of the CL themselves tonight. City have lost to Stoke, been thrashed 4-1 at home by Liverpool and drawn against the worst team by a country mile in Villa - all in their last five League matches.
I also don't get the argument about Mourinho and his spending. Thank God that VG isn't managing Chelsea too because they already lost EIGHT League games and are just two points above the relegation zone. But, there again, Mourinho only has the likes of Diego Costa, Oscar, Willian and Hazard at his disposal, players who, when on form are world class. Hazard, a midfielder who more than any other player last season influenced a team's performance and yet this season hasn't found the net once and had just two assists in his 14 League starts - and yet has scored four goals for Belgium. Why is he going missing for Chelsea?
I might be completely and utterly wrong, but I was under the impression Mourinho doesn't have full control of transfer policy at Chelsea. Certainly a lot of that squad came together before he re-joined (Cahill, Ivanovic, Ramires, Oscar, Hazard off the top of my head). I do think if he's given the funds to build the team as he wants it, he'll win the title.
He doesn't. Michael Emenalo is their technical director.
They don't have Alex Ferguson anymore. They are just like any other football club. They'll have big upswings and big downswings. Everybody's flipping out that they're not storming the league like they used to, or playing like they used to. All that success came from just one man, and he's gone. Man Utd will never be the same and unfortunately for the normal viewer, the next 5-10 years of media coverage are for the most part going to be spent talking in disbelief at how it's happened.
The spell has been broken. In their pomp teams were beaten before they even got on the pitch, especially at OT. Now that Fergie's gone it's just not the same. Man Utd have to go out and win every game for themselves, something the current squad is struggling to do (though not struggling that badly it seems) without reverting to grinding out the points.
In general the fear factor is gone from the Premiership, any team will have a go at the big boys. It's something that just doesn't seem to happen in Germany and especially Spain. It's why we're struggling in Europe. I don't think we've got particularly worse, our teams just have to work far harder in the league to earn points and they don't have the confidence/arrogance that comes from brushing aside the opposition every week.
There's the tired old line about doing it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke, but the premiership is like that virtually every game, you have to work hard and fight for every point, even against the lowest placed clubs. It's something Barca, Real and Bayern just don't have to do, there's a big percentage of games that turning up is almost enough to win it.
United fans on the radio - 'Van Gaal is killing this club'. Typical Premier League spoiled brats, where finishing third equals killing the club. If they want to see someone killing a club I can think of a better example.
I've always loved Man Utd, well since the early 70's when I became aware of them. Everything about the club; the history, glamour, managers, players and above all the way they play football. I never warmed to Liverpool when I was young despite them being far more successful. What they have been dishing up over the past few years though is crap and they need someone new at the top with the right attitude and philosophy. What is Giggs doing? Letting LVG continue to manage so poorly so he gets the job? Surely he should tell the fool where he is going wrong?
The golden goose that is sky is killing the big 4. The money coming in on the new TV deals means even lesser teams can buy the best players. This has meant the top sides can no longer buy the best and steam role everyone else.
So much money spent yet they look so average. One of the only two clubs I hate so I'm glad they've been poor for two, three years straight with over 250m wasted. I watched their league match against Watford recently and it was nothing like one between the former Premier League champions and a newly promoted side. Shame Watford lost the match but they definitely made ManU look like a struggling lower table team. But for their excellent goalkeeper David De Gea, ManU would never be where they are now in the league - same goes for their previous seasons.
Got to say that being 33 and growing up watching the Premier League from its inception, I have always liked and wanted Man Utd to do well. I was never one of these people that couldn't stand them. From a young age I remember having a video called Eric the King, it was a great video and he is one of my all time favourite players. For me they have always had exciting teams, I used to enjoy Kanchelskis, Schmeichael is probably the best goalie in my lifetime. Then they had the new generation of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs etc. I remember my dad taking me to a youth cup semi final (I think) in 92 at the old den, standing behind the goal and seeing Scholes score a great volley (I had no idea who he was at the time).
It's probably more to do with my age and nostalgic pangs towards remembering your childhood football stars, but I was with them all the way in wanting them to win the Prem and do well in Europe. I also have complete adoration for Ferguson. I think the man is class. Consistent winner. None of this Arsenal shit where they dick all over Norwich 6-0 and Jonathan Pearce is cumming in his pants, but they get no trophies. I mean cold, hard winners.
This doesn't translate to me being particularly upset or bothered about their plight now. It's more, how the hell has it gone so bad. They just look shit. Like a bunch of individuals, managed by a man whose approach seems akin to watching George Graham when he came back to manage Spurs.
What a joke. Just spunking money on players like Herrera, Fellaini - awful player. The game they had against Arsenal last season in the cup at home was embarrassing. Just lumping it up to him as a target man?? Useless tactic being played out with average players.
Rooney has got progressively worse, he has no identity on the pitch anymore, he's so slow. They've got problems. As others have said, they are probably representative of the wider demise affecting England's top clubs. They're all regressing in my opinion. I think we are lucky to have the likes of Aguero still happy to play in the premiership at the moment. the top talent will only come here for money, they certainly aren't winning any trophies in Europe in the immediate future
Great post but just a couple of points to make.
Fellaini was, of course, a Moyes panic buy and VG has had to play him due to his current lack of resources. The other thing to bear in mind is that last night's starting line up had an average age of under 25 - not many sides in the CL will be that inexperienced but VG has shown that he isn't afraid to throw in the youngsters.
And whilst the jury is out on some of these, he does have a crop for the future with no less than 19 players used by VG aged 26 or under of which ten are 22 or younger - Martial (20), Lingard (22), Varela (22), Depay (21), Shaw (20), Jones (23), De Gea (25), Smalling (26), McNair (20), Darmian (26), Janusaj (20), Borthwick-Jackson (18), Powell (21), Wilson (20), Pereira (19), Rojo (25), Blind (25), Herrera (26) & Schneiderlin (26).
By comparison, Chelsea have used just nine players this season who are 26 or younger - and this is the club that has more players on loan than any other probably in Europe. But they don't tend to ever come back from loan and play regularly for Chelsea do they?
So United are a work in progress. And I better get off this thread before I convince myself that it should be more than my pocket backing them!
You neglect to mention that van Gaal has spent over 250m on this 'work in progress' and yet they end up fielding a side for a crunch champions league tie that would struggle to survive in the premier league.
Got to say that being 33 and growing up watching the Premier League from its inception, I have always liked and wanted Man Utd to do well. I was never one of these people that couldn't stand them. From a young age I remember having a video called Eric the King, it was a great video and he is one of my all time favourite players. For me they have always had exciting teams, I used to enjoy Kanchelskis, Schmeichael is probably the best goalie in my lifetime. Then they had the new generation of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs etc. I remember my dad taking me to a youth cup semi final (I think) in 92 at the old den, standing behind the goal and seeing Scholes score a great volley (I had no idea who he was at the time).
It's probably more to do with my age and nostalgic pangs towards remembering your childhood football stars, but I was with them all the way in wanting them to win the Prem and do well in Europe. I also have complete adoration for Ferguson. I think the man is class. Consistent winner. None of this Arsenal shit where they dick all over Norwich 6-0 and Jonathan Pearce is cumming in his pants, but they get no trophies. I mean cold, hard winners.
This doesn't translate to me being particularly upset or bothered about their plight now. It's more, how the hell has it gone so bad. They just look shit. Like a bunch of individuals, managed by a man whose approach seems akin to watching George Graham when he came back to manage Spurs.
What a joke. Just spunking money on players like Herrera, Fellaini - awful player. The game they had against Arsenal last season in the cup at home was embarrassing. Just lumping it up to him as a target man?? Useless tactic being played out with average players.
Rooney has got progressively worse, he has no identity on the pitch anymore, he's so slow. They've got problems. As others have said, they are probably representative of the wider demise affecting England's top clubs. They're all regressing in my opinion. I think we are lucky to have the likes of Aguero still happy to play in the premiership at the moment. the top talent will only come here for money, they certainly aren't winning any trophies in Europe in the immediate future
Great post but just a couple of points to make.
Fellaini was, of course, a Moyes panic buy and VG has had to play him due to his current lack of resources. The other thing to bear in mind is that last night's starting line up had an average age of under 25 - not many sides in the CL will be that inexperienced but VG has shown that he isn't afraid to throw in the youngsters.
And whilst the jury is out on some of these, he does have a crop for the future with no less than 19 players used by VG aged 26 or under of which ten are 22 or younger - Martial (20), Lingard (22), Varela (22), Depay (21), Shaw (20), Jones (23), De Gea (25), Smalling (26), McNair (20), Darmian (26), Janusaj (20), Borthwick-Jackson (18), Powell (21), Wilson (20), Pereira (19), Rojo (25), Blind (25), Herrera (26) & Schneiderlin (26).
By comparison, Chelsea have used just nine players this season who are 26 or younger - and this is the club that has more players on loan than any other probably in Europe. But they don't tend to ever come back from loan and play regularly for Chelsea do they?
So United are a work in progress. And I better get off this thread before I convince myself that it should be more than my pocket backing them!
You neglect to mention that van Gaal has spent over 250m on this 'work in progress' and yet they end up fielding a side for a crunch champions league tie that would struggle to survive in the premier league.
I was a bit disappointed (although not surprised) when LVG turned down Spurs just before he took over from Moyes.
Am beginning to think Spurs had a lucky escape. Cant believe how dull their football is now.
Definitely a lucky escape in hindsight. Your team has been playing very good attractive football under a manager who seems to like using and developing young talents, which is probably completely opposite to what ManU and LVG have been doing. It's obvious to see which manager people would prefer.
I was a bit disappointed (although not surprised) when LVG turned down Spurs just before he took over from Moyes.
Am beginning to think Spurs had a lucky escape. Cant believe how dull their football is now.
Definitely a lucky escape in hindsight. Your team has been playing very good attractive football under a manager who seems to like using and developing young talents, which is probably completely opposite to what ManU and LVG have been doing. It's obvious to see which manager people would prefer.
And I expect the current Spurs manager to be the next one of Man Utd.
Comments
A PL top three place will be far more of a priority (and with the potential to win it too) and a progression from 7th to 4th to guaranteed CL football will be seen as progression. However boring the football is because it will give VG (or his successor) a platform to further improve the side on the attacking front. We also shouldn't forget that United have lost a shed load of top class players in the last few years and Fergie knew that when he left. Re-building rarely happens over night.
Quite amazing how they've managed to spend as much as they have, yet ended up with such a shambles of a side on the pitch last night and had Smalling up front in the last few minutes.
Equally, none of the top sides have hit their stride - Arsenal have lost to WBA and drawn against Norwich in their last three games and might well go out of the CL themselves tonight. City have lost to Stoke, been thrashed 4-1 at home by Liverpool and drawn against the worst team by a country mile in Villa - all in their last five League matches.
I also don't get the argument about Mourinho and his spending. Thank God that VG isn't managing Chelsea too because they already lost EIGHT League games and are just two points above the relegation zone. But, there again, Mourinho only has the likes of Diego Costa, Oscar, Willian and Hazard at his disposal, players who, when on form are world class. Hazard, a midfielder who more than any other player last season influenced a team's performance and yet this season hasn't found the net once and had just two assists in his 14 League starts - and yet has scored four goals for Belgium. Why is he going missing for Chelsea?
It's probably more to do with my age and nostalgic pangs towards remembering your childhood football stars, but I was with them all the way in wanting them to win the Prem and do well in Europe. I also have complete adoration for Ferguson. I think the man is class. Consistent winner. None of this Arsenal shit where they dick all over Norwich 6-0 and Jonathan Pearce is cumming in his pants, but they get no trophies. I mean cold, hard winners.
This doesn't translate to me being particularly upset or bothered about their plight now. It's more, how the hell has it gone so bad. They just look shit. Like a bunch of individuals, managed by a man whose approach seems akin to watching George Graham when he came back to manage Spurs.
What a joke. Just spunking money on players like Herrera, Fellaini - awful player. The game they had against Arsenal last season in the cup at home was embarrassing. Just lumping it up to him as a target man?? Useless tactic being played out with average players.
Rooney has got progressively worse, he has no identity on the pitch anymore, he's so slow. They've got problems. As others have said, they are probably representative of the wider demise affecting England's top clubs. They're all regressing in my opinion. I think we are lucky to have the likes of Aguero still happy to play in the premiership at the moment. the top talent will only come here for money, they certainly aren't winning any trophies in Europe in the immediate future
Fellaini was, of course, a Moyes panic buy and VG has had to play him due to his current lack of resources. The other thing to bear in mind is that last night's starting line up had an average age of under 25 - not many sides in the CL will be that inexperienced but VG has shown that he isn't afraid to throw in the youngsters.
And whilst the jury is out on some of these, he does have a crop for the future with no less than 19 players used by VG aged 26 or under of which ten are 22 or younger - Martial (20), Lingard (22), Varela (22), Depay (21), Shaw (20), Jones (23), De Gea (25), Smalling (26), McNair (20), Darmian (26), Janusaj (20), Borthwick-Jackson (18), Powell (21), Wilson (20), Pereira (19), Rojo (25), Blind (25), Herrera (26) & Schneiderlin (26).
By comparison, Chelsea have used just nine players this season who are 26 or younger - and this is the club that has more players on loan than any other probably in Europe. But they don't tend to ever come back from loan and play regularly for Chelsea do they?
So United are a work in progress. And I better get off this thread before I convince myself that it should be more than my pocket backing them!
In general the fear factor is gone from the Premiership, any team will have a go at the big boys. It's something that just doesn't seem to happen in Germany and especially Spain. It's why we're struggling in Europe. I don't think we've got particularly worse, our teams just have to work far harder in the league to earn points and they don't have the confidence/arrogance that comes from brushing aside the opposition every week.
There's the tired old line about doing it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke, but the premiership is like that virtually every game, you have to work hard and fight for every point, even against the lowest placed clubs. It's something Barca, Real and Bayern just don't have to do, there's a big percentage of games that turning up is almost enough to win it.
If they want to see someone killing a club I can think of a better example.
I bet they never thought that would happen.
You neglect to mention that van Gaal has spent over 250m on this 'work in progress' and yet they end up fielding a side for a crunch champions league tie that would struggle to survive in the premier league.
Am beginning to think Spurs had a lucky escape. Cant believe how dull their football is now.