With Buyens, Jackson, Moussa, Gudmundsson, Cousins, Harriott and Bulot we have a lot more attacking options in midfield and they are all capable of scoring goals. Vitokele is a gem and Tucudean might still find his feet. If Church is playing alongside someone with confidence like Vetokele he might pick up as well.
What the hell has any of this got to do with Frederic Bulot? Yet another thread hijacked by a completely unassociated and increasingly personal argument.
Apologies if I have acted as the catalyst to this derailment! In acknowledgement of the thread purpose, the arrival of Bulot should further complete the transformation of the front six. The signings of Gudmundsson, Vetokele, Buyens has led to much better performance and results already against some top, top clubs.
So the addition of Bulot can help and if a decent €2m striker or attacking midfielder arrives (as per transfermarkt!) on loan plus we enjoy some luck and good play vs Watford and Wolves then we have the makings of a really good season....Perhaps the best since 2007?
On Tucudean I think the simple truth is that he bombed at Liege and then went out on loan back to Romania.
My premise is that the longer we stay in the top six the more fans will come back, the more the club can sell whatever ticket deals they come up with.
I have a deadline this week so I'm off for a while...
PA, As accurate as your contact seems to have been about Buyens if we are to assume that his comment means that George is 'worse' than the players that they sent over in January then his credibility is a little questionable.
George may well turn out to be less than what we want, but initial showings don't suggest he is our worst signing ever, but then maybe we have a longer list that SL have.
It's his opinion. He's a journalist. Not a person employed in professional football .
The reason I keep mentioning it is to demonstrate that he provides balanced views, not aimed at providing either a pro or con view of RD or the network. As you would expect of a good journalist.
He confirmed that at the time in January we were sent a whole load of dross (by Standard levels, which are higher than ours, don't forget). So were other clubs in the network. As far as he is concerned Tucudean is part of the dross, whereas Buyens and Bulot are not. I take heart from the fact that George is young, and Big Bob has a reputation for getting the best from young players. I haven't seen him yet, but will in the next two games, and will happily give him my support, as I have always done for Simon Church.
PA, As accurate as your contact seems to have been about Buyens if we are to assume that his comment means that George is 'worse' than the players that they sent over in January then his credibility is a little questionable.
George may well turn out to be less than what we want, but initial showings don't suggest he is our worst signing ever, but then maybe we have a longer list that SL have.
It's his opinion. He's a journalist. Not a person employed in professional football .
The reason I keep mentioning it is to demonstrate that he provides balanced views, not aimed at providing either a pro or con view of RD or the network. As you would expect of a good journalist.
He confirmed that at the time in January we were sent a whole load of dross (by Standard levels, which are higher than ours, don't forget). So were other clubs in the network. As far as he is concerned Tucudean is part of the dross, whereas Buyens and Bulot are not. I take heart from the fact that George is young, and Big Bob has a reputation for getting the best from young players. I haven't seen him yet, but will in the next two games, and will happily give him my support, as I have always done for Simon Church.
What the hell has any of this got to do with Frederic Bulot? Yet another thread hijacked by a completely unassociated and increasingly personal argument.
Apologies if I have acted as the catalyst to this derailment! In acknowledgement of the thread purpose, the arrival of Bulot should further complete the transformation of the front six. The signings of Gudmundsson, Vetokele, Buyens has led to much better performance and results already against some top, top clubs.
So the addition of Bulot can help and if a decent €2m striker or attacking midfielder arrives (as per transfermarkt!) on loan plus we enjoy some luck and good play vs Watford and Wolves then we have the makings of a really good season....Perhaps the best since 2007?
On Tucudean I think the simple truth is that he bombed at Liege and then went out on loan back to Romania.
My premise is that the longer we stay in the top six the more fans will come back, the more the club can sell whatever ticket deals they come up with.
I have a deadline this week so I'm off for a while...
COYR
SR, I don't want to go too off topic again but why do you keep referring to this website? I had a little look and the transfer values of the players I looked at look seem no more accurate than guesswork. Are they based on something? They have players worth less than their latest transfer fee (and when I say latest I'm talking about players that had the choice of three teams for the same fee a month ago).
So, if they are not reflective of the players transfer value as in what a club could sell for or would have to pay to buy the player, do you know how they come up with the values? If so is it easy for you to tell us? If not (and this is just an assumption) is there any value in the figures and/or using them to judge players?
I have always liked Cousins and he was effective with Poyet at the back end of last season,although outshone by him. However, he has shown a tendency to give the ball away a lot this season playing out wide. This would be a big problem if he played in midfield (remember Nicky Bailey in central midfield?). Unless he can work on this he would not be in my midfield. JJ on the other hand is pretty tenacious in possession in contrast. My guess is that the two players we were trying to sign last night were a midfielder and a striker, as these are the two positions we are still light in, Cousins at this stage is not the answer.
I have always liked Cousins and he was effective with Poyet at the back end of last season,although outshone by him. However, he has shown a tendency to give the ball away a lot this season playing out wide. This would be a big problem if he played in midfield (remember Nicky Bailey in central midfield?). Unless he can work on this he would not be in my midfield. JJ on the other hand is pretty tenacious in possession in contrast. My guess is that the two players we were trying to sign last night were a midfielder and a striker, as these are the two positions we are still light in, Cousins at this stage is not the answer.
I think a lot of people are forgetting we have Moussa. I don't think he was brought in to bolster the numbers.
What the hell has any of this got to do with Frederic Bulot? Yet another thread hijacked by a completely unassociated and increasingly personal argument.
Apologies for my role in that.
Just got a mail from the Trust' s Belgian journalist / Standard fan correspondent, who has this to say
PS: Frédéric Bulot is a more than decent midfieler, but could never be used in his right position at Standard. So he lost confidence among fans at Liège, but he could be a good deal for Charlton. As Yoni Buyens was.
So what is his right position?
I'll ask him. But I guess Bob knows. Although the Standard team looked weak against Zenit, Douglas wrote me that six key players were missing injured, and they have bought in a guy called Eyung Enoh, a Cameroon international, from Ajax; so looks like Frederic's prospects are limited there when they all get fit again.
Douglas called it right about both Buyens (Believe me, Yoni Buyens will bring you joy. He's a great box-to-box-player, very physical and fit for British football.) and Tucudean, (This was the worst incoming transfer ever at Standard de Liège. Trust me, it's a long list...) so I'd back him to call this one right too.
concur with others. incredibly harsh on George, he has looked more than decent and had a real decent effort at Brighton on Saturday that the likes of many of our strikers in recent years could only dream of hitting. If you think this Belgian geezer is right about Tucudean I can only assume you havn't seen him play yet.
The player valuation is a mystery! Why do they have Vetokele at £1.1m when we paid €3m? When and how do they revalue players? At what point did they decide that Derby youngsters in a team finishing just below us two years back went from £500k to £1.5m
The thing is the overall squad valuation gives you a very good indication of where a club will finish... £10m and you are bottom six in the Championship. Whereas £20-25m last season was enough to compete in the top ten.
So how do you turn a £10m squad into one worth £20m over say 2 years? 1) You shed low value players - check! 2) You keep the best young players who hopefully improve rapidly - check! - as RM stated at the open day, our young players are a year older than last season and that makes a big difference 3) you bring in 5 x high value players @ €2m each - check!
Right now M.Duchatelet and Meire are taking an extremely fast track to transforming CAFC from £10m squad into one worth £20m - add a couple of loans and revalue Vetokele to his true worth and we are there in just eight months! The front six is a revelation. First half vs Brentford not so much but since then everyone can see the difference that landing these players has made.
This coupled with rave reviews from Douglas and a couple of Fc Copenhagen fans convinced me very early on that we were going to be top half and allowed me to enter into a relationship with Corals that might pay for my season...for the whole family...Home and away .
Question now is who else comes in on loan and whether the club are committed to staying top six?
Some individual player valuations are indeed comical and I have stated that I believe the professionals in the game use a much more advanced type of model - probably prozone?
Transfermarkt doesn't guarantee anything but it does give some visibility of all these European leagues which M. Duchatelet's network are scouting. And it also shows the relative challenges that Alcorcun, Liege and the rest of the network face in their leagues.
The player valuation is a mystery! Why do they have Vetokele at £1.1m when we paid €3m? When and how do they revalue players? At what point did they decide that Derby youngsters in a team finishing just below us two years back went from £500k to £1.5m
The thing is the overall squad valuation gives you a very good indication of where a club will finish... £10m and you are bottom six in the Championship. Whereas £20-25m last season was enough to compete in the top ten.
So how do you turn a £10m squad into one worth £20m over say 2 years? 1) You shed low value players - check! 2) You keep the best young players who hopefully improve rapidly - check! - as RM stated at the open day, our young players are a year older than last season and that makes a big difference 3) you bring in 5 x high value players @ €2m each - check!
Right now M.Duchatelet and Meire are taking an extremely fast track to transforming CAFC from £10m squad into one worth £20m - add a couple of loans and revalue Vetokele to his true worth and we are there in just eight months! The front six is a revelation. First half vs Brentford not so much but since then everyone can see the difference that landing these players has made.
This coupled with rave reviews from Douglas and a couple of Fc Copenhagen fans convinced me very early on that we were going to be top half and allowed me to enter into a relationship with Corals that might pay for my season...for the whole family...Home and away .
Question now is who else comes in on loan and whether the club are committed to staying top six?
Some individual player valuations are indeed comical and I have stated that I believe the professionals in the game use a much more advanced type of model - probably prozone?
Transfermarkt doesn't guarantee anything but it does give some visibility of all these European leagues which M. Duchatelet's network are scouting. And it also shows the relative challenges that Alcorcun, Liege and the rest of the network face in their leagues.
If the player valuations are random why should the aggregate valuations be any indication of anything? I'm not getting at you SR I just wondered how we can use these figures to give us any indication of how good a player is. If the player's value is based on the club and the club's value is based on their league position then I would expect the SL players to have a, relatively, inflated, value. Our players, on the other hand would have a reduce value due to where we finished last season.
Simple answer @kings hill addick and I thank you for your question... The individual valuations are NOT random but they do have errors. Players from smaller countries with Europa and champions league exposure are going to be worth more than a striker from Barnsley! However the aggregation for the whole squad knocks out many of these errors. Take a look at the Jupiler league for this season and last and one will see c. 5 clubs with high squad values - perhaps Douglas might comment? In the end it is simply a proxy value for the squad and our football has improved while the squad value has increased by 50% It simply doesn't dictate what a player will be sold for but it does tell me that Bulot has a good chance of being a hit at the Valley.
Simple answer @kings hill addick and I thank you for your question... The individual valuations are NOT random but they do have errors. Players from smaller countries with Europa and champions league exposure are going to be worth more than a striker from Barnsley! However the aggregation for the whole squad knocks out many of these errors. Take a look at the Jupiler league for this season and last and one will see c. 5 clubs with high squad values - perhaps Douglas might comment? In the end it is simply a proxy value for the squad and our football has improved while the squad value has increased by 50% It simply doesn't dictate what a player will be sold for but it does tell me that Bulot has a good chance of being a hit at the Valley.
It's all irrelevant really isn't it. A player is worth whatever a club is willing to pay in the real world. Not sure what a made up value of a footballer on a random website achieves or even tells us. No offence. For example, Reza could be worth £3m a random website, but if he's sold for £1.5m then that's the only relevant figure.
What the hell has any of this got to do with Frederic Bulot? Yet another thread hijacked by a completely unassociated and increasingly personal argument.
Apologies for my role in that.
Just got a mail from the Trust' s Belgian journalist / Standard fan correspondent, who has this to say
PS: Frédéric Bulot is a more than decent midfieler, but could never be used in his right position at Standard. So he lost confidence among fans at Liège, but he could be a good deal for Charlton. As Yoni Buyens was.
So what is his right position?
I'll ask him. But I guess Bob knows. Although the Standard team looked weak against Zenit, Douglas wrote me that six key players were missing injured, and they have bought in a guy called Eyung Enoh, a Cameroon international, from Ajax; so looks like Frederic's prospects are limited there when they all get fit again.
Douglas called it right about both Buyens (Believe me, Yoni Buyens will bring you joy. He's a great box-to-box-player, very physical and fit for British football.) and Tucudean, (This was the worst incoming transfer ever at Standard de Liège. Trust me, it's a long list...) so I'd back him to call this one right too.
concur with others. incredibly harsh on George, he has looked more than decent and had a real decent effort at Brighton on Saturday that the likes of many of our strikers in recent years could only dream of hitting. If you think this Belgian geezer is right about Tucudean I can only assume you havn't seen him play yet.
What the hell has any of this got to do with Frederic Bulot? Yet another thread hijacked by a completely unassociated and increasingly personal argument.
Apologies for my role in that.
Just got a mail from the Trust' s Belgian journalist / Standard fan correspondent, who has this to say
PS: Frédéric Bulot is a more than decent midfieler, but could never be used in his right position at Standard. So he lost confidence among fans at Liège, but he could be a good deal for Charlton. As Yoni Buyens was.
So what is his right position?
I'll ask him. But I guess Bob knows. Although the Standard team looked weak against Zenit, Douglas wrote me that six key players were missing injured, and they have bought in a guy called Eyung Enoh, a Cameroon international, from Ajax; so looks like Frederic's prospects are limited there when they all get fit again.
Douglas called it right about both Buyens (Believe me, Yoni Buyens will bring you joy. He's a great box-to-box-player, very physical and fit for British football.) and Tucudean, (This was the worst incoming transfer ever at Standard de Liège. Trust me, it's a long list...) so I'd back him to call this one right too.
concur with others. incredibly harsh on George, he has looked more than decent and had a real decent effort at Brighton on Saturday that the likes of many of our strikers in recent years could only dream of hitting. If you think this Belgian geezer is right about Tucudean I can only assume you havn't seen him play yet.
I haven't, Large. I made that perfectly clear.
But the Belgian geezer has.
How can you say that he's called it right then? Tucadean hasn't been bad he's shown he can be good in places and been decent overall.
What the hell has any of this got to do with Frederic Bulot? Yet another thread hijacked by a completely unassociated and increasingly personal argument.
Apologies for my role in that.
Just got a mail from the Trust' s Belgian journalist / Standard fan correspondent, who has this to say
PS: Frédéric Bulot is a more than decent midfieler, but could never be used in his right position at Standard. So he lost confidence among fans at Liège, but he could be a good deal for Charlton. As Yoni Buyens was.
So what is his right position?
I'll ask him. But I guess Bob knows. Although the Standard team looked weak against Zenit, Douglas wrote me that six key players were missing injured, and they have bought in a guy called Eyung Enoh, a Cameroon international, from Ajax; so looks like Frederic's prospects are limited there when they all get fit again.
Douglas called it right about both Buyens (Believe me, Yoni Buyens will bring you joy. He's a great box-to-box-player, very physical and fit for British football.) and Tucudean, (This was the worst incoming transfer ever at Standard de Liège. Trust me, it's a long list...) so I'd back him to call this one right too.
concur with others. incredibly harsh on George, he has looked more than decent and had a real decent effort at Brighton on Saturday that the likes of many of our strikers in recent years could only dream of hitting. If you think this Belgian geezer is right about Tucudean I can only assume you havn't seen him play yet.
I haven't, Large. I made that perfectly clear.
But the Belgian geezer has.
How can you say that he's called it right then? Tucadean hasn't been bad he's shown he can be good in places and been decent overall.
Ok maybe I was premature. However the fact that he was substituted at half time on Saturday suggests that - compared with Buyens or Ben Haim- he is not seen as a core member of Big Bob' s preferred team.
What the hell has any of this got to do with Frederic Bulot? Yet another thread hijacked by a completely unassociated and increasingly personal argument.
Apologies for my role in that.
Just got a mail from the Trust' s Belgian journalist / Standard fan correspondent, who has this to say
PS: Frédéric Bulot is a more than decent midfieler, but could never be used in his right position at Standard. So he lost confidence among fans at Liège, but he could be a good deal for Charlton. As Yoni Buyens was.
So what is his right position?
I'll ask him. But I guess Bob knows. Although the Standard team looked weak against Zenit, Douglas wrote me that six key players were missing injured, and they have bought in a guy called Eyung Enoh, a Cameroon international, from Ajax; so looks like Frederic's prospects are limited there when they all get fit again.
Douglas called it right about both Buyens (Believe me, Yoni Buyens will bring you joy. He's a great box-to-box-player, very physical and fit for British football.) and Tucudean, (This was the worst incoming transfer ever at Standard de Liège. Trust me, it's a long list...) so I'd back him to call this one right too.
concur with others. incredibly harsh on George, he has looked more than decent and had a real decent effort at Brighton on Saturday that the likes of many of our strikers in recent years could only dream of hitting. If you think this Belgian geezer is right about Tucudean I can only assume you havn't seen him play yet.
I haven't, Large. I made that perfectly clear.
But the Belgian geezer has.
BUT you most certainly did say this Belgian geezer was correct, as in you agree, as in you think Tucudean is a bad signing... which he may yet be but on current evidence there is a good striker in there if we can find him. And given you have not yet seen him I don't see how you can judge him, even by proxy.
What the hell has any of this got to do with Frederic Bulot? Yet another thread hijacked by a completely unassociated and increasingly personal argument.
Apologies for my role in that.
Just got a mail from the Trust' s Belgian journalist / Standard fan correspondent, who has this to say
PS: Frédéric Bulot is a more than decent midfieler, but could never be used in his right position at Standard. So he lost confidence among fans at Liège, but he could be a good deal for Charlton. As Yoni Buyens was.
So what is his right position?
I'll ask him. But I guess Bob knows. Although the Standard team looked weak against Zenit, Douglas wrote me that six key players were missing injured, and they have bought in a guy called Eyung Enoh, a Cameroon international, from Ajax; so looks like Frederic's prospects are limited there when they all get fit again.
Douglas called it right about both Buyens (Believe me, Yoni Buyens will bring you joy. He's a great box-to-box-player, very physical and fit for British football.) and Tucudean, (This was the worst incoming transfer ever at Standard de Liège. Trust me, it's a long list...) so I'd back him to call this one right too.
concur with others. incredibly harsh on George, he has looked more than decent and had a real decent effort at Brighton on Saturday that the likes of many of our strikers in recent years could only dream of hitting. If you think this Belgian geezer is right about Tucudean I can only assume you havn't seen him play yet.
I haven't, Large. I made that perfectly clear.
But the Belgian geezer has.
BUT you most certainly did say this Belgian geezer was correct, as in you agree, as in you think Tucudean is a bad signing... which he may yet be but on current evidence there is a good striker in there if we can find him. And given you have not yet seen him I don't see how you can judge him, even by proxy.
I repeat from my post that is still on this page of the thread
I take heart from the fact that George is young, and Big Bob has a reputation for getting the best from young players. I haven't seen him yet, but will in the next two games, and will happily give him my support, as I have always done for Simon Church.
Meanwhile I place a lot of store by Douglas assessments because he has been proved right about all the other Standard loanees. He correctly identified Ajdarevic as being the only one of the Jan loanees likely to be of any use to us, but with reservations.
What the hell has any of this got to do with Frederic Bulot? Yet another thread hijacked by a completely unassociated and increasingly personal argument.
Apologies for my role in that.
Just got a mail from the Trust' s Belgian journalist / Standard fan correspondent, who has this to say
PS: Frédéric Bulot is a more than decent midfieler, but could never be used in his right position at Standard. So he lost confidence among fans at Liège, but he could be a good deal for Charlton. As Yoni Buyens was.
So what is his right position?
I'll ask him. But I guess Bob knows. Although the Standard team looked weak against Zenit, Douglas wrote me that six key players were missing injured, and they have bought in a guy called Eyung Enoh, a Cameroon international, from Ajax; so looks like Frederic's prospects are limited there when they all get fit again.
Douglas called it right about both Buyens (Believe me, Yoni Buyens will bring you joy. He's a great box-to-box-player, very physical and fit for British football.) and Tucudean, (This was the worst incoming transfer ever at Standard de Liège. Trust me, it's a long list...) so I'd back him to call this one right too.
concur with others. incredibly harsh on George, he has looked more than decent and had a real decent effort at Brighton on Saturday that the likes of many of our strikers in recent years could only dream of hitting. If you think this Belgian geezer is right about Tucudean I can only assume you havn't seen him play yet.
I haven't, Large. I made that perfectly clear.
But the Belgian geezer has.
How can you say that he's called it right then? Tucadean hasn't been bad he's shown he can be good in places and been decent overall.
Ok maybe I was premature. However the fact that he was substituted at half time on Saturday suggests that - compared with Buyens or Ben Haim- he is not seen as a core member of Big Bob' s preferred team.
I thought I read somewhere Tucudean was carrying a knock on Saturday
Comments
Welcome Bulot.
In acknowledgement of the thread purpose, the arrival of Bulot should further complete the transformation of the front six. The signings of Gudmundsson, Vetokele, Buyens has led to much better performance and results already against some top, top clubs.
So the addition of Bulot can help and if a decent €2m striker or attacking midfielder arrives (as per transfermarkt!) on loan plus we enjoy some luck and good play vs Watford and Wolves then we have the makings of a really good season....Perhaps the best since 2007?
On Tucudean I think the simple truth is that he bombed at Liege and then went out on loan back to Romania.
My premise is that the longer we stay in the top six the more fans will come back, the more the club can sell whatever ticket deals they come up with.
I have a deadline this week so I'm off for a while...
COYR
The reason I keep mentioning it is to demonstrate that he provides balanced views, not aimed at providing either a pro or con view of RD or the network. As you would expect of a good journalist.
He confirmed that at the time in January we were sent a whole load of dross (by Standard levels, which are higher than ours, don't forget). So were other clubs in the network. As far as he is concerned Tucudean is part of the dross, whereas Buyens and Bulot are not. I take heart from the fact that George is young, and Big Bob has a reputation for getting the best from young players. I haven't seen him yet, but will in the next two games, and will happily give him my support, as I have always done for Simon Church.
So, if they are not reflective of the players transfer value as in what a club could sell for or would have to pay to buy the player, do you know how they come up with the values? If so is it easy for you to tell us? If not (and this is just an assumption) is there any value in the figures and/or using them to judge players?
Thanks.
My guess is that the two players we were trying to sign last night were a midfielder and a striker, as these are the two positions we are still light in, Cousins at this stage is not the answer.
The thing is the overall squad valuation gives you a very good indication of where a club will finish... £10m and you are bottom six in the Championship. Whereas £20-25m last season was enough to compete in the top ten.
So how do you turn a £10m squad into one worth £20m over say 2 years?
1) You shed low value players - check!
2) You keep the best young players who hopefully improve rapidly - check! - as RM stated at the open day, our young players are a year older than last season and that makes a big difference
3) you bring in 5 x high value players @ €2m each - check!
Right now M.Duchatelet and Meire are taking an extremely fast track to transforming CAFC from £10m squad into one worth £20m - add a couple of loans and revalue Vetokele to his true worth and we are there in just eight months! The front six is a revelation. First half vs Brentford not so much but since then everyone can see the difference that landing these players has made.
This coupled with rave reviews from Douglas and a couple of Fc Copenhagen fans convinced me very early on that we were going to be top half and allowed me to enter into a relationship with Corals that might pay for my season...for the whole family...Home and away
Question now is who else comes in on loan and whether the club are committed to staying top six?
Some individual player valuations are indeed comical and I have stated that I believe the professionals in the game use a much more advanced type of model - probably prozone?
Transfermarkt doesn't guarantee anything but it does give some visibility of all these European leagues which M. Duchatelet's network are scouting. And it also shows the relative challenges that Alcorcun, Liege and the rest of the network face in their leagues.
The individual valuations are NOT random but they do have errors. Players from smaller countries with Europa and champions league exposure are going to be worth more than a striker from Barnsley! However the aggregation for the whole squad knocks out many of these errors. Take a look at the Jupiler league for this season and last and one will see c. 5 clubs with high squad values - perhaps Douglas might comment?
In the end it is simply a proxy value for the squad and our football has improved while the squad value has increased by 50%
It simply doesn't dictate what a player will be sold for but it does tell me that Bulot has a good chance of being a hit at the Valley.
But the Belgian geezer has.
I repeat from my post that is still on this page of the thread
I take heart from the fact that George is young, and Big Bob has a reputation for getting the best from young players. I haven't seen him yet, but will in the next two games, and will happily give him my support, as I have always done for Simon Church.
Meanwhile I place a lot of store by Douglas assessments because he has been proved right about all the other Standard loanees. He correctly identified Ajdarevic as being the only one of the Jan loanees likely to be of any use to us, but with reservations.