Mark Reckless

Addickted

The Tory MP for Rochester & Strood and some people on here's representative in Parliament has become the second Tory MP to defect to UKIP.

Some very nervous Politicians with narrow majorities out there. With Farage forcing the issue with Labour voters, will the next defection be from the Opposition?

Chizz

Addickted said:

The Tory MP for Rochester & Strood and some people on here's representative in Parliament has become the second Tory MP to defect to UKIP.

Some very nervous Politicians with narrow majorities out there. With Farage forcing the issue with Labour voters, will the next defection be from the Opposition?

No.

sadiejane1981

I think the conservatives are much closer to UKIP in likeness thAn labour which is why the Tory MPs are defecting, UKIP stand for a lot of what conservatives used to stand for especially when it comes to European policy, a lot of older standing Tories relate to this and is closer to their current views. The ironical thing about all of the defection and the fact that UKIP are taking votes from their closest slightly right wing rivals is that it is what will make their and conservatives opposition "labour" win the next election. In actual fact the labour supporters although whole heartedly disagree with UKIP must love the fact theyre around.

McBobbin

Labour MP Rory Devilmaycare is being touted as next to jump ship

Callumcafc

Good for him in making a big decision and following what he feels is best for his constituency.

Not that I particularly agree with him but there you go.

cfgs

Thing is we elect a party rather than a politician and think they shouldn't be able to jump ship midterm. Think they really only do it in their own interests anyway.

Fiiish

cfgs said:

Thing is we elect a party rather than a politician and think they shouldn't be able to jump ship midterm. Think they really only do it in their own interests anyway.

If this was true then MPs wouldn't rebel against their own party. The fact is they can and they do, hence why you vote for a person and not just a robot representing their party. Also, if this was true, Clacton would be returning a new Tory MP in their upcoming by-election, but Carswell is still the odds-on favourite to win under UKIP.

Bournemouth Addick

cfgs said:

Thing is we elect a party rather than a politician and think they shouldn't be able to jump ship midterm. Think they really only do it in their own interests anyway.

Exactly. You should not be allowed to just walk across the floor of the House. At least the Clacton MP stood down and forced a by election. If he gets voted in again as a UKIP that's fair enough but otherwise it extremely undemocratic to get voted in on a raft of policies then jettison those because the MP in question has changed his position. If he or she has a problem with his parties policies they should try and change them and be upfront with their constituents.

Addickted

Reckless has resigned as an MP, triggering a by-election.

Where would he walk to across the floor anyway?

cfgs

If he has resigned then fair enough, I vote for a party as a single MP, unless the leader, of their respective party has little power. However the electorate can change their collective outlook during a term and I honestly think MPs tend to jump ship to protect their own interests.

Callumcafc

He has resigned and will stand for re election like Carswell did.

Bournemouth Addick

Addickted said:

Reckless has resigned as an MP, triggering a by-election.

Where would he walk to across the floor anyway?

Again that's fair enough but there would be nothing stopping him representing UKIP in parliament in principle (as far as I know anyway) by crossing the floor. There have been solitary independent MP's before and George Galloway pretty much is the Respect Party of course.

Airman Brown

sadiejane1981 said:

I think the conservatives are much closer to UKIP in likeness thAn labour which is why the Tory MPs are defecting, UKIP stand for a lot of what conservatives used to stand for especially when it comes to European policy, a lot of older standing Tories relate to this and is closer to their current views. The ironical thing about all of the defection and the fact that UKIP are taking votes from their closest slightly right wing rivals is that it is what will make their and conservatives opposition "labour" win the next election. in actual fact the labour supporters although whole heartedly disagree with UKIP must love the fact theyre around.

Not so much. EU/immigration aside (or included, if you like) UKIP are running a politically incoherent agenda designed to catch the attention of blue collar voters. For example, tax proposals that appear to support people in low pay but actually offer nil benefit to someone on £10k a year, coupled with significant tax cuts for the better off, which is their real interest. Proposals for a 5 per cent VAT increase on expensive shoes and handbags belong in a comedy sketch show rather than a political manifesto but are not doubt designed to appeal to stupid people - i.e. would amount to £10 on a £200 pair of shoes. I have no idea how little that might raise, but it's not serious politics. I don't imagine that will stop some people voting for it, however - and of course that's an indictment of the big parties, although I think the electoral system is part of the problem as it shapes the offer they have to make to appeal to swing voters.

Bournemouth Addick

Farages own shoes only cost £199* so he doesn't count as one of the better off and wouldn't be liable for his proposed tax on expensive man bags. Proper man of the people is Nigel.



*a reporter asked him.

Chizz

Of course, technically, it's not possible to resign as an MP...

Addickted

Airman Brown said:

sadiejane1981 said:

I think the conservatives are much closer to UKIP in likeness thAn labour which is why the Tory MPs are defecting, UKIP stand for a lot of what conservatives used to stand for especially when it comes to European policy, a lot of older standing Tories relate to this and is closer to their current views. The ironical thing about all of the defection and the fact that UKIP are taking votes from their closest slightly right wing rivals is that it is what will make their and conservatives opposition "labour" win the next election. in actual fact the labour supporters although whole heartedly disagree with UKIP must love the fact theyre around.

Not so much. EU/immigration aside (or included, if you like) UKIP are running a politically incoherent agenda designed to catch the attention of blue collar voters. For example, tax proposals that appear to support people in low pay but actually offer nil benefit to someone on £10k a year, coupled with significant tax cuts for the better off, which is their real interest. Proposals for a 5 per cent VAT increase on expensive shoes and handbags belong in a comedy sketch show rather than a political manifesto but are not doubt designed to appeal to stupid people - i.e. would amount to £10 on a £200 pair of shoes. I have no idea how little that might raise, but it's not serious politics. I don't imagine that will stop some people voting for it, however - and of course that's an indictment of the big parties, although I think the electoral system is part of the problem as it shapes the offer they have to make to appeal to swing voters.

I thought Farage was advocating no income tax for anyone on minimum wage - which would put the threshold about 30% higher than it is now?

Actually some of the VAT ideas of UKIP are far from "comedy show". I quite like the idea that foreign nationals have to pay 20% VAT on goods they buy in the UK.
Why should a Russian/Chinese/Saudi billionaire be able to by his Rolls Royce for 20% less than I can?

Whereas of course Milibland has been putting together cohesive tax raising policies, like "The Mansion Tax". How does that one work? Why doesn't he just call it a "London Tax" as that's where about 95% of the income will be coming from.

Lincsaddick

Never mind reckless Mark, the man who has defected and put the entire Eton/Tory party at risk, what about Wreckless Eric, what's his take on contemporary politics ?

and as for Brooks Newmark ... flashing the ol meat an 2 veg on phonecam .. Now that is VERY reckless ((:>)

Algarveaddick

They are all out for what they can get...

PragueAddick

Addickted said:

Airman Brown said:

sadiejane1981 said:

I think the conservatives are much closer to UKIP in likeness thAn labour which is why the Tory MPs are defecting, UKIP stand for a lot of what conservatives used to stand for especially when it comes to European policy, a lot of older standing Tories relate to this and is closer to their current views. The ironical thing about all of the defection and the fact that UKIP are taking votes from their closest slightly right wing rivals is that it is what will make their and conservatives opposition "labour" win the next election. in actual fact the labour supporters although whole heartedly disagree with UKIP must love the fact theyre around.

Not so much. EU/immigration aside (or included, if you like) UKIP are running a politically incoherent agenda designed to catch the attention of blue collar voters. For example, tax proposals that appear to support people in low pay but actually offer nil benefit to someone on £10k a year, coupled with significant tax cuts for the better off, which is their real interest. Proposals for a 5 per cent VAT increase on expensive shoes and handbags belong in a comedy sketch show rather than a political manifesto but are not doubt designed to appeal to stupid people - i.e. would amount to £10 on a £200 pair of shoes. I have no idea how little that might raise, but it's not serious politics. I don't imagine that will stop some people voting for it, however - and of course that's an indictment of the big parties, although I think the electoral system is part of the problem as it shapes the offer they have to make to appeal to swing voters.

Actually some of the VAT ideas of UKIP are far from "comedy show". I quite like the idea that foreign nationals have to pay 20% VAT on goods they buy in the UK.
Why should a Russian/Chinese/Saudi billionaire be able to by his Rolls Royce for 20% less than I can?

Sounds seductive, doesn't it. However i don't understand how it will work, unless he plans to withdraw Britain from the global tax-free scheme. That will displease Brits doing their tax free shopping on holiday and will probably affect the grey market for cars. Meanwhile unless there is some loophole I not know about, I'd have thought they can only get the VAT back on their Roller when they export the bloody thing, just as they do when they export their Hugo Boss suit they picked up in the January sales. Sounds like cheap foreigner-bashing to me, absolutely in line with core UKIP policy of course.

Addickted

It doesn't have to work. Same as the rest of their policies.

All it needs to do is get enough of the 'popular' vote to get some seats in the House of Commons.

With the possibility of a hung Parliament again next year, that's when Farage can get the real power he craves.

bingaddick

Bournemouth Addick said:

cfgs said:

Thing is we elect a party rather than a politician and think they shouldn't be able to jump ship midterm. Think they really only do it in their own interests anyway.

Exactly. You should not be allowed to just walk across the floor of the House. At least the Clacton MP stood down and forced a by election. If he gets voted in again as a UKIP that's fair enough but otherwise it extremely undemocratic to get voted in on a raft of policies then jettison those because the MP in question has changed his position. If he or she has a problem with his parties policies they should try and change them and be upfront with their constituents.

The ballot paper may name the candidates Party but it is the person that gets the votes in UK Parliament Elections.

After all the most famous of them Winston Churchill all crossed the twice from Conservative to Liberal and then back to Conservative.

There is no requirement on MPs to resign their seat but the convention now seems to be that you should re submit yourself to the electorate to regain a mandate. My guess though is part of some MPs calculations will be about whether they think they can regain the seat. Both these two Tories I am certain, feel they can.

bingaddick

Airman Brown said:

sadiejane1981 said:

I think the conservatives are much closer to UKIP in likeness thAn labour which is why the Tory MPs are defecting, UKIP stand for a lot of what conservatives used to stand for especially when it comes to European policy, a lot of older standing Tories relate to this and is closer to their current views. The ironical thing about all of the defection and the fact that UKIP are taking votes from their closest slightly right wing rivals is that it is what will make their and conservatives opposition "labour" win the next election. in actual fact the labour supporters although whole heartedly disagree with UKIP must love the fact theyre around.

Not so much. EU/immigration aside (or included, if you like) UKIP are running a politically incoherent agenda designed to catch the attention of blue collar voters. For example, tax proposals that appear to support people in low pay but actually offer nil benefit to someone on £10k a year, coupled with significant tax cuts for the better off, which is their real interest. Proposals for a 5 per cent VAT increase on expensive shoes and handbags belong in a comedy sketch show rather than a political manifesto but are not doubt designed to appeal to stupid people - i.e. would amount to £10 on a £200 pair of shoes. I have no idea how little that might raise, but it's not serious politics. I don't imagine that will stop some people voting for it, however - and of course that's an indictment of the big parties, although I think the electoral system is part of the problem as it shapes the offer they have to make to appeal to swing voters.

Plus of course the real corker of tax cuts paid for by leaving the EU.

bingaddick

PragueAddick said:

Sounds seductive, doesn't it. However i don't understand how it will work, unless he plans to withdraw Britain from the global tax-free scheme. That will displease Brits doing their tax free shopping on holiday and will probably affect the grey market for cars. Meanwhile unless there is some loophole I not know about, I'd have thought they can only get the VAT back on their Roller when they export the bloody thing, just as they do when they export their Hugo Boss suit they picked up in the January sales. Sounds like cheap foreigner-bashing to me, absolutely in line with core UKIP policy of course.

Oh you old cynic PA - surely not?

Huskaris

Bloody UKIP with their populist policies trying to win votes from people.

Its almost like they think representing peoples views is something to be proud of.

Well I dont agree with their policies so I'm going to write off everything they say and all the people who vote for them from my ivory tower.

I don't vote UKIP but they only exist because they represent certain peoples views a lot better than the current parties.

cafcfan

bingaddick said:

Airman Brown said:

sadiejane1981 said:

I think the conservatives are much closer to UKIP in likeness thAn labour which is why the Tory MPs are defecting, UKIP stand for a lot of what conservatives used to stand for especially when it comes to European policy, a lot of older standing Tories relate to this and is closer to their current views. The ironical thing about all of the defection and the fact that UKIP are taking votes from their closest slightly right wing rivals is that it is what will make their and conservatives opposition "labour" win the next election. in actual fact the labour supporters although whole heartedly disagree with UKIP must love the fact theyre around.

Not so much. EU/immigration aside (or included, if you like) UKIP are running a politically incoherent agenda designed to catch the attention of blue collar voters. For example, tax proposals that appear to support people in low pay but actually offer nil benefit to someone on £10k a year, coupled with significant tax cuts for the better off, which is their real interest. Proposals for a 5 per cent VAT increase on expensive shoes and handbags belong in a comedy sketch show rather than a political manifesto but are not doubt designed to appeal to stupid people - i.e. would amount to £10 on a £200 pair of shoes. I have no idea how little that might raise, but it's not serious politics. I don't imagine that will stop some people voting for it, however - and of course that's an indictment of the big parties, although I think the electoral system is part of the problem as it shapes the offer they have to make to appeal to swing voters.

Plus of course the real corker of tax cuts paid for by leaving the EU.

Yes, getting to the facts about UKIP's tax policy really is like trying to nail jelly to the wall: it changes so often.

Does anyone know whether UKIP has abandoned their 2010 policy of merging income tax and national insurance? Otherwise, in the unlikely event of a UKIP Govt., there are going to be a lot of UKIP voting pensioners who are going to be in for a very nasty shock indeed.

johnny73

Received a 'Residents' Survey' from Reckless on Thursday. Doesn't mention the Conservative party at all. Goes on about everything he says he has done for the community and how he hasn't voted on party lines.

Was delivered by a Conservative Councillor. So it appears Reckless was using the Conservative grassroots network to deliver his personal message.

stilladdicted

Does it really matter that UKIP has no coherent policies? The people I know that vote UKIP don't give a shit about them. They just want immigration stopped and preferably reversed.

SantaClaus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RhejZyHbZ4M

He sounds like a chinless ditherer.

Yorkshireaddick

What a totally uninspiring bloke

PragueAddick

Bournemouth Addick said:

Farages own shoes only cost £199* so he doesn't count as one of the better off and wouldn't be liable for his proposed tax on expensive man bags. Proper man of the people is Nigel.



*a reporter asked him.

Apparently he has already dropped this policy. tells us now it was just a "discussion point". I expect he'll do the same with the VAT thing, once his aides point out he would have to pay VAT on his handmade suit he'll pick up in Beijing.

Yep, a different kind of politics...

Richard J

I personally detest UKIP.

However I reluctantly admit that rather like ( the pre referendum ) Alex Salmond in Scotland they are on a roll at the moment . Their pitch is not about consistency and logic ,it is about emotion and playing on people's fears . Most of their policies are eccentric to say the least and do not bear serious analysis .

Mark Reckless's By election will be closely contested .The Medway towns have normally been somewhat of a bell weather for who is in government. Labour held the seat during the Blair years and won it as recently as 2005.

The problem UKIP's opponents have is that rather like the pre coalition Lib Dems , they are very unlikely to be tested by being in government next year. The Lib Dems 'brand' is now toxic because they stood on policies to the left of Labour in 2010 and then installed a right wing Tory government.

There are big dangers for Labour with UKIP also. The traditional Labour voter is being aggressively targeted by Farage.
Michael Crick speculates here that UKIP might even win the Heywood and Middleton By Election which is held on the same day as Clacton and then there is the Police Commissioner By Election to replace the disgraced former Rotherham Councillor Shaun Wright.

http://blogs.channel4.com/michael-crick-on-politics/ukip-win-byelection-labour/4403