The basic problem in my view is that voters want Nye Bevan's free at the point of use NHS and decent social provision but do not want to pay for it through direct taxation. When Neil Kinnock put this proposition to the British people in 1987 and1992 he was rejected . This meant Labour regrouped under Tony Blair . His government did renew the crumbling infrastructure of for example London Underground , the NHS and Schools but much of it was paid for by PFI which as someone described on here as putting your mortgage on your credit card .
So do we want an economic system to fund our social provisions or is our priority a social system to fund our economic aspirations ? I personally would want the social system to be more important although economic considerations cannot be completely ignored.
Most voters want both . Farage is positioning himself in the north as your grandfather's old Labour Party whilst declaring himself as Thatcher's heir apparent in the Thames estuary. In my view he can't be both and if he did hold a balance of power at the next election he would soon be found out .Remember Clegg was the most popular of the Party leaders following the televised debates.
Propaganda believers, times are changing nothing goes on for ever and that includes Labour, Conservatives and the liberals. The life span of recycling the same old bollocks is coming to a end. We need to destroy the birth of Agencies and zero hour contracts which are fecking up this country because immigration has grown out of control.
We could always continue blowing up a 4x4 in syria using a 1 million pound missle from our sound economic policies.
Yes rather than Cameron and Miliband. Can he do any worse? Like it or not UKIP is growing a a rapid pace and just watch the two biggest parties now migrate some of ukip policies on migration and the EU into their manifests in the run up to the next general election, will be all hot air of course just to try to persuade those voting ukip to come back and put x in their box.
Yes rather than Cameron and Miliband. Can he do any worse? Like it or not UKIP is growing a a rapid pace and just watch the two biggest parties now migrate some of ukip policies on migration and the EU into their manifests in the run up to the next general election, will be all hot air of course just to try to persuade those voting ukip to come back and put x in their box.
nationally about 15% of vote for ukip according to opinion polls. there is a very large number of people who will never, ever vote for ukip. there is little chance of ukips getting anywhere near power.
and yes it will be worse with nige. his party is racist, homophobic and misogynist. none of their 'policies' are achievable. his attempt to separate from europe (which is probably not possible given our geographic and economic links to the rest of europe) will lead to a huge negative impact on uk economy. much of our growth from recession is founded on financial service industry based in london with access to the eu. that industry will move to germany if uk leave the eu. getting rid of the bankers might be considered a good thing but it will send uk back into recession.
Yes rather than Cameron and Miliband. Can he do any worse? Like it or not UKIP is growing a a rapid pace and just watch the two biggest parties now migrate some of ukip policies on migration and the EU into their manifests in the run up to the next general election, will be all hot air of course just to try to persuade those voting ukip to come back and put x in their box.
Right wing parties prey on bigotry and fear and given the current economic climate people are veering to the right as it offers easy answers and scapegoats. Farage can say what he wants at present as it's unlikely he'll get to run the country. Like Boris he can do his man of the people act and act as a buffoon.
UKIP spouts off about Europe yet its MEPs are still happy to pick up their salaries from an organisation they supposedly despise.
Racist, homophobic, hate filled , small minded, arseholes every one. No exception, this is a party of morons.
Racist, how? Homophobic, how? Please explain.
I have met people in senior positions in UKIP over many years. As of a couple of years ago the policy was to start to put a more respectable face on their strongly held views. One particular senior member I knew well through an associate is the most obnoxious twat I have ever met. I have heard his views on everything from immigration through to the fact Tony Blair is a closet gay. Farage and his cronies turned up at my mates funeral last year and stunk the place out. I admit it, I hate them with a passion. In closing, any party who base its policy on negativity and hate have no place in mainstream, politics. They will fall flat on their faces pretty soon.
I feel the same Buckshee regarding the next election. I suppose for so many people, especially the 'core' voters of the major parties, after many many loyal years, hope has been extinguished and fear has jumped into the vacant slot so it is small wonder that a party based on fear and prejudice is doing well. So all we are left with is dog whistle politics and none of the major parties seem to have even noticed the absence of policy, their concerns now seem to relate solely to their political futures.
I have followed UKIP closely hence why I placed the bet. There are now 7 months until the general election. In that time I expect more dirt slinging at Farage from both the mainstream press and political parties. These political parties don't seem to understand that the entire reason they are voting UKIP is because they feel that the current status quo is mugging them off daily. The more the status quo say don't vote for that guy, the more that they will think its a good idea to, as a kind of quasi protest vote/ wanting change.
Farage personifies it. Farage has the common touch, I'm not saying you have to go to a comprehensive to have that, none of the major political leaders have, but you don't have to be so out of touch with the voters you represent. Farage in my opinion is not.
As for all the policies that Farage keeps announcing such as no HIV people coming in and people thinking that will be his undoing, the opposite, policies like that are going to prove very popular. Its all fine when you're sitting there in front of the fire reading your Guardian and laughing at the latest Charlie Brooker critique of right wingers with a gin and tonic in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other, and don't get me wrong, for a 23 year old I am perfectly well off, and I don't have issues with what UKIP voters have issues with, but if you stop and listen you will see that what they complain about are genuinely held grievances and UKIP are the first party in ages to actually represent the white working class in the UK.
Blame new Labour or whatever you want but there has been a vacuum for the white working class vote that has been going either slightly to the Tories (very slightly) as the strongest party on immigration (strongest as in a kitten next to a mouse) some has stuck with labour but is moaning about it (harking back to the unions, Labour have been dining off their 1940s-1980s image, New Labour has effectively managed to retain its base whilst appealing to new people with new labour, but that traditional base is now haemmoraging) and an awful lot of them, just don't vote. UKIP are a party that will take the working class vote and the slightly older eurosceptic and immigration wary vote, and I think they will wreak havoc next year.
Racist, homophobic, hate filled , small minded, arseholes every one. No exception, this is a party of morons.
Who'd have thunk it.
Clacton, the Nuremberg of the UK.
You and others keep coming out with that sort of bile in an attempt to stop people voting for them - doesn't seem to be working, as great swathes of the voting population up and down the Country are turning towards them.
You really need to look at the years of incompetent, lying, thieving, selfish professional politicians who have taken this Country down the road that makes Farage and his ilk so popular.
I still follow UK politics from abroad and find the success of the UKIP surprising to say the least, and Farange's statements about HIV sufferers are grotesque. I just hope it motivates the main parties to raise the level of political discourse so that the UKIP actually have to articulate their policies coherently, but I fear it is going the other way with the rest of them also going in for cheap populist statements.
I have followed UKIP closely hence why I placed the bet. There are now 7 months until the general election. In that time I expect more dirt slinging at Farage from both the mainstream press and political parties. These political parties don't seem to understand that the entire reason they are voting UKIP is because they feel that the current status quo is mugging them off daily. The more the status quo say don't vote for that guy, the more that they will think its a good idea to, as a kind of quasi protest vote/ wanting change.
Farage personifies it. Farage has the common touch, I'm not saying you have to go to a comprehensive to have that, none of the major political leaders have, but you don't have to be so out of touch with the voters you represent. Farage in my opinion is not.
As for all the policies that Farage keeps announcing such as no HIV people coming in and people thinking that will be his undoing, the opposite, policies like that are going to prove very popular. Its all fine when you're sitting there with the fire on in front of the fire reading your Guardian and laughing at the latest Charlie Brooker critique of right wingers with a gin and tonic in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other, and don't get me wrong, for a 23 year old I am perfectly well off, and I don't have issues with what UKIP voters have issues with, but if you stop and listen you will see that what they complain about are genuinely held grievances and UKIP are the first party in ages to actually represent the white working class in the UK.
Blame new Labour or whatever you want but there has been a vacuum for the white working class vote that has been going either slightly to the Tories (very slightly) as the strongest party on immigration (strongest as in a kitten next to a mouse) some has stuck with labour but is moaning about it (harking back to the unions, Labour have been dining off their 1940s-1980s image, New Labour has effectively managed to retain its base whilst appealing to new people with new labour, but that traditional base is now haemmoraging) and an awful lot of them, just don't vote. UKIP are a party that will take the working class vote and the slightly older eurosceptic and immigration wary vote, and I think they will wreak havoc next year.
And yet the union dominated 70s are sill frequently brought up and used as a stick to beat the Labour party with by right wingers. You can't have it both ways.
You and others keep on about "representing the white working class" like absolutely everyone is in agreement with him, yet this forum clearly shows they are not. I, like many others, agree that the present situation is no longer acceptable, I don't think that a party with half a dozen clear polices, most of which are about dealing with the symptoms rather than the illness, is the answer.
As buckshee says, there is no party to represent a lot of people's views.
If it's any consolation, I was a Thatcherite Tory when I was 23. I then observed what they actually did for a number of years and realised the error of my ways.
Comments
So many people quote UKIP 'policies' which have no truth to them at all
The basic problem in my view is that voters want Nye Bevan's free at the point of use NHS and decent social provision but do not want to pay for it through direct taxation. When Neil Kinnock put this proposition to the British people in 1987 and1992 he was rejected . This meant Labour regrouped under Tony Blair . His government did renew the crumbling infrastructure of for example London Underground , the NHS and Schools but much of it was paid for by PFI which as someone described on here as putting your mortgage on your credit card .
So do we want an economic system to fund our social provisions or is our priority a social system to fund our economic aspirations ? I personally would want the social system to be more important although economic considerations cannot be completely ignored.
Most voters want both . Farage is positioning himself in the north as your grandfather's old Labour Party whilst declaring himself as Thatcher's heir apparent in the Thames estuary. In my view he can't be both and if he did hold a balance of power at the next election he would soon be found out .Remember Clegg was the most popular of the Party leaders following the televised debates.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/farage-uturns-on-25-luxurygoods-tax-days-after-it-was-announced-9760578.html
The life span of recycling the same old bollocks is coming to a end.
We need to destroy the birth of Agencies and zero hour contracts which are fecking up this country because immigration has grown out of control.
We could always continue blowing up a 4x4 in syria using a 1 million pound missle from our sound economic policies.
http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2014/10/05/typical-daily-mail-front-page/
Can he do any worse?
Like it or not UKIP is growing a a rapid pace and just watch the two biggest parties now migrate some of ukip policies on migration and the EU into their manifests in the run up to the next general election, will be all hot air of course just to try to persuade those voting ukip to come back and put x in their box.
and yes it will be worse with nige. his party is racist, homophobic and misogynist. none of their 'policies' are achievable. his attempt to separate from europe (which is probably not possible given our geographic and economic links to the rest of europe) will lead to a huge negative impact on uk economy. much of our growth from recession is founded on financial service industry based in london with access to the eu. that industry will move to germany if uk leave the eu. getting rid of the bankers might be considered a good thing but it will send uk back into recession.
UKIP spouts off about Europe yet its MEPs are still happy to pick up their salaries from an organisation they supposedly despise.
Oh well at least the BNP have disappeared...
I'm pretty certain the Green Party aren't.
Farage personifies it. Farage has the common touch, I'm not saying you have to go to a comprehensive to have that, none of the major political leaders have, but you don't have to be so out of touch with the voters you represent. Farage in my opinion is not.
As for all the policies that Farage keeps announcing such as no HIV people coming in and people thinking that will be his undoing, the opposite, policies like that are going to prove very popular. Its all fine when you're sitting there in front of the fire reading your Guardian and laughing at the latest Charlie Brooker critique of right wingers with a gin and tonic in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other, and don't get me wrong, for a 23 year old I am perfectly well off, and I don't have issues with what UKIP voters have issues with, but if you stop and listen you will see that what they complain about are genuinely held grievances and UKIP are the first party in ages to actually represent the white working class in the UK.
Blame new Labour or whatever you want but there has been a vacuum for the white working class vote that has been going either slightly to the Tories (very slightly) as the strongest party on immigration (strongest as in a kitten next to a mouse) some has stuck with labour but is moaning about it (harking back to the unions, Labour have been dining off their 1940s-1980s image, New Labour has effectively managed to retain its base whilst appealing to new people with new labour, but that traditional base is now haemmoraging) and an awful lot of them, just don't vote.
UKIP are a party that will take the working class vote and the slightly older eurosceptic and immigration wary vote, and I think they will wreak havoc next year.
Clacton, the Nuremberg of the UK.
You and others keep coming out with that sort of bile in an attempt to stop people voting for them - doesn't seem to be working, as great swathes of the voting population up and down the Country are turning towards them.
You really need to look at the years of incompetent, lying, thieving, selfish professional politicians who have taken this Country down the road that makes Farage and his ilk so popular.
You can't have it both ways.
You and others keep on about "representing the white working class" like absolutely everyone is in agreement with him, yet this forum clearly shows they are not. I, like many others, agree that the present situation is no longer acceptable, I don't think that a party with half a dozen clear polices, most of which are about dealing with the symptoms rather than the illness, is the answer.
As buckshee says, there is no party to represent a lot of people's views.
If it's any consolation, I was a Thatcherite Tory when I was 23. I then observed what they actually did for a number of years and realised the error of my ways.