Jimmy Stone on twitter...
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Well Powell and Peters certainly wern't winning many!ValleyTalkBlog said:Yep, because all our managerial changes were definitely about winning football games and nothing else. Definitely.
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I have absolutely no idea whether there is any veracity to the statement but on what possible level can it be deemed to be self indulgent. 90% of people have no clue as to who the guy is other than he worked for the club. What exactly does he have to gain?
As an employee of the club he is bound by the terms and conditions of employment which includes implicit confidentiality boundaries. I could argue even as an ex-employee he has breached those terms and conditions.
At one level the statement can be taken "with a pinch of salt". How very philanthropic of M. Duchatelet to provide the community with a nice new pitch and improved seating for people to watch those nice young men have some where to play football - very Corinthian.
At another level it is simply a statement suggesting he is not specifically concerned about any individual result as long as in the long term the club can move forward to become a successful and viable entity.
At a third level it could be construed as constituting a pernicious fraud on any and everyone connected with the club engaged in working toward achieving and supporting a successful winning football club operating in an exceptionally competitive environment.
It then argues to the point made elsewhere if you do not care about the results why then sack two head coaches for poor results.
Of equal if not greater importance is the stance of the CEO as to whether she cares and to what degree she cares about building a winning team and if so how she reconciles such a statement by the owner because taken at face value it argues against the very ethos of professional competitive sport and presents a very serious conflict of interest.
At the very least when you are asking people to pay good money to watch a team compete to win it would be "jolly good form" to let them know that in the end it does not really matter. They then can make the appropriate choice as to whether they could pay considerably less by watching the same endeavour at a County League level where I can guarantee no matter the shortfall in playing talent the result does indeed matter a very great deal.
In any event I thank the young man for his contribution to the debate on the current regime at the club, I suggest it gives us all more food for thought, and sincerely hope he will find a happier working environment in the very near future.
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Well looks like Roly really has been picking the team cos we've had more draws than anything else this season.Absurdistan said:
Easy compromise, draw, draw, draw, draw, draw...........................................................................................................................Rossman92 said:Thais just popped into my mind. We have an owner who doesn't care about winning, and a Manager who's first words were I hate to lose. My what a lovely pairing
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But not, surely, during or after every one!Bubble said:Its no real surprise that manager's heads roll either during or just after a transfer window,
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"Results" to you and I mean on the pitch. These don't matter to Roland. The "results" Roland are concerned about are the increasing values of his / our players. The lack of enquiries from clubs wanting to buy any of our players must be a concern to him. His model can only ever work if he can sell the players on. He wants them in the shop window. He wants their values increased and to sell them on at a profit. This isn't happening. I am sure he has an advisor (Duhan?) telling him that , PP, George etc.. are Championship players and that he will get a profit on them. The adviser has massively under estimated the Championship.seth plum said:So Guy Luzon likes to win, doesn't like to lose, we are told that Mr Peeters was sacked because of results, yet Mr Duchatelet supposedly says results don't matter, which we witness with our own eyes when we see the games and observe the transfer policy.
Whether results matter or not the bald fact is we're not getting them anyway, and that is driving fans away.
He needs to see that success on the pitch will increase the players value.2 -
Have any of us met Roland to actually get to know his personality or are we just seeing the whole situation through the (potentially distorted) eyes of others? Everyone on here seems to know the man really well, being able to explain his motives behind every move.0
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It comes across as unprofessional for a recently ex employee to be tweeting things of this nature..2
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A very quick observation.
If it is about players the performance of the team is irrelevant.
History tells us that Michael Gliksten sold Len Glover for a then British record fee for a winger. Billy Bonds, Mike Bailey and Marvin Hinton to name but three were also sold for decent money by the standards of the time.
Charlton were a struggling second tier club for most of the period those players were with us. 63-64 was the one decent season.
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1968/9 wasn't bad either, Len.LenGlover said:A very quick observation.
If it is about players the performance of the team is irrelevant.
History tells us that Michael Gliksten sold Len Glover for a then British record fee for a winger. Billy Bonds, Mike Bailey and Marvin Hinton to name but three were also sold for decent money by the standards of the time.
Charlton were a struggling second tier club for most of the period those players were with us. 63-64 was the one decent season.
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Sorry I don't think I made it clear, I mean't its no real surprise under our current ownershipPragueAddick said:
But not, surely, during or after every one!Bubble said:Its no real surprise that manager's heads roll either during or just after a transfer window,
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Amazing. RD's troubling attitude has yet again been exposed and people would prefer to shoot the messenger.25
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So on his Twitter he says that about the "not bothered about winning" comment that he was told during an interview that is on youtube but has been edited out. Having watched that interview it seems a bit off. RD clearly knows what to say in terms of what fans want to hear, e.g he denies about turning into a feeder club, praises CP and says he's a very good manager, says the fans are excellent and that the support is important to the team. Why then in the middle of saying all those fan friendly things would he blurt out that he doesn't care about winning? It just doesn't seem to fit.
I'm not saying he didn't say it or calling Jimmy a liar it just seems strange. RD is a politician after all and knows saying anything like that would be shooting yourself in the foot. Also I don't understand why he wouldn't want to win. I've said before I'm sure his ultimate goal is to get us to the PL. There is literally no other way this club could be profitable enough for someone to buy. Perhaps something was lost in translation? Also seems a bit unlikely as his English does seem usually good but also a possibility.
I'm not dismissing off hand what he has put on Twitter but I also don't want to jump on it immediately and shout "look look look, we're doomed" etc.9 -
Those players had all left by then.mistrollingin said:
1968/9 wasn't bad either, Len.LenGlover said:A very quick observation.
If it is about players the performance of the team is irrelevant.
History tells us that Michael Gliksten sold Len Glover for a then British record fee for a winger. Billy Bonds, Mike Bailey and Marvin Hinton to name but three were also sold for decent money by the standards of the time.
Charlton were a struggling second tier club for most of the period those players were with us. 63-64 was the one decent season.0 -
If Roland gave us all an individual phone call, explained to each of us his love of Millwall, his plan to move us *away from* the Valley and his hopes to shift Solly to Standard on a free, some would blame the phone operator before they questioned his intentions.24
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I think there's a reason for that, to be fair, and it's how extraordinary the truth is. That was the situation last March and is epitomised by the argument that Duchatelet only ever asked why "his" signings weren't being selected and perfectly reasonably given that the team was losing.ValleyTalkBlog said:Amazing. RD's troubling attitude has yet again been exposed and people would prefer to shoot the messenger.
That's a likely explanation, but it doesn't happen to be the correct one. I can quite see why people would prefer to believe it. However, as the evidence mounts up about Duchatelet, both from third parties and first hand on and off the pitch, more and more people are getting it.
Go back to 1985 and you'll find fans saying how wonderful John Fryer was because he'd saved the club in 1984. So if he said we had to move to Selhurst and there was no other option it must be true. Read some of the nonsense written in the following years. Talk now to some of the people who served on his board and you get a very different story.8 -
The Gliksten model is hardly one that anyone in business would follow though, Len. The consequences of such a strategy on the pitch led to relegation & near-bankruptcy. Even if you have a reasonable stream of young players, the returns are uncertain - look how cheaply we offloaded Paul Elliott, for example. (or Alan Campbell).LenGlover said:A very quick observation.
If it is about players the performance of the team is irrelevant.
History tells us that Michael Gliksten sold Len Glover for a then British record fee for a winger. Billy Bonds, Mike Bailey and Marvin Hinton to name but three were also sold for decent money by the standards of the time.
Charlton were a struggling second tier club for most of the period those players were with us. 63-64 was the one decent season.
On the other hand, our run to the play offs mid 90s surely enhanced Lee Bowyer's value, and we got a very good price there. So on-the-pitch failure will undermine any attempt to simply tread water & sell on young players0 -
Christ knows what is happening behind the scenes. Wouldn't at all surprise me if that nutcase of an owner wanted to change manages at half time. Maybe we should give Luzon, Peeters and a random person 30 mins each on Saturday.1
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If I was the owner and saw the shite that was served up at Sheffield, I'd want to change the manager at half time as well!ricky_otto said:Christ knows what is happening behind the scenes. Wouldn't at all surprise me if that nutcase of an owner wanted to change manages at half time. Maybe we should give Luzon, Peeters and a random person 30 mins each on Saturday.
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That shyte at Sheffield was down to Roland. The players and Powell obviuosly new before the game Powell had been sacked. That Roland could not give a shyte about Charlton fans was proved that day.Essex_Al said:
If I was the owner and saw the shite that was served up at Sheffield, I'd want to change the manager at half time as well!ricky_otto said:Christ knows what is happening behind the scenes. Wouldn't at all surprise me if that nutcase of an owner wanted to change manages at half time. Maybe we should give Luzon, Peeters and a random person 30 mins each on Saturday.
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No he doesn't, Jimmy said Duchatelet made the comment about replacing Powell at half time in that video, which considering it is a video about the tough week which included that decision makes perfect sense. The comment about not being bothered about winning was made at a different time.colthe3rd said:So on his Twitter he says that about the "not bothered about winning" comment that he was told during an interview that is on youtube but has been edited out. Having watched that interview it seems a bit off. RD clearly knows what to say in terms of what fans want to hear, e.g he denies about turning into a feeder club, praises CP and says he's a very good manager, says the fans are excellent and that the support is important to the team. Why then in the middle of saying all those fan friendly things would he blurt out that he doesn't care about winning? It just doesn't seem to fit.
I'm not saying he didn't say it or calling Jimmy a liar it just seems strange. RD is a politician after all and knows saying anything like that would be shooting yourself in the foot. Also I don't understand why he wouldn't want to win. I've said before I'm sure his ultimate goal is to get us to the PL. There is literally no other way this club could be profitable enough for someone to buy. Perhaps something was lost in translation? Also seems a bit unlikely as his English does seem usually good but also a possibility.
I'm not dismissing off hand what he has put on Twitter but I also don't want to jump on it immediately and shout "look look look, we're doomed" etc.
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I know what you mean.Essex_Al said:
If I was the owner and saw the shite that was served up at Sheffield, I'd want to change the manager at half time as well!ricky_otto said:Christ knows what is happening behind the scenes. Wouldn't at all surprise me if that nutcase of an owner wanted to change manages at half time. Maybe we should give Luzon, Peeters and a random person 30 mins each on Saturday.
However, with this bloke, it probably wasn't a performance issue (seeing as he doesn't mind losing). He was probably bored and fancied a change.0 -
He was furious because Powell refused to play Thuram. But that's old news and Powell was never going to work long-term in this regime. It would have blown up one way or the other.ricky_otto said:
I know what you mean.Essex_Al said:
If I was the owner and saw the shite that was served up at Sheffield, I'd want to change the manager at half time as well!ricky_otto said:Christ knows what is happening behind the scenes. Wouldn't at all surprise me if that nutcase of an owner wanted to change manages at half time. Maybe we should give Luzon, Peeters and a random person 30 mins each on Saturday.
However, with this bloke, it probably wasn't a performance issue (seeing as he doesn't mind losing). He was probably bored and fancied a change.1 -
No no no you're all wrong, it was all Powells fault that the players didn't perform as he's not a good manager, nothing to do with Roland's actions before and during the game. What a piss take to all the fan's that day was, that was the final straw for me - Roland couldn't give a toss, I was red with rage when someone involved in the club told me the going on's the next day.kentred2 said:
That shyte at Sheffield was down to Roland. The players and Powell obviuosly new before the game Powell had been sacked. That Roland could not give a shyte about Charlton fans was proved that day.Essex_Al said:
If I was the owner and saw the shite that was served up at Sheffield, I'd want to change the manager at half time as well!ricky_otto said:Christ knows what is happening behind the scenes. Wouldn't at all surprise me if that nutcase of an owner wanted to change manages at half time. Maybe we should give Luzon, Peeters and a random person 30 mins each on Saturday.
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Rob62 said:
He was furious because Powell refused to play Thuram up front.ricky_otto said:
I know what you mean.Essex_Al said:
If I was the owner and saw the shite that was served up at Sheffield, I'd want to change the manager at half time as well!ricky_otto said:Christ knows what is happening behind the scenes. Wouldn't at all surprise me if that nutcase of an owner wanted to change manages at half time. Maybe we should give Luzon, Peeters and a random person 30 mins each on Saturday.
However, with this bloke, it probably wasn't a performance issue (seeing as he doesn't mind losing). He was probably bored and fancied a change.2 -
Fair enough I got mixed up when looking through the conversations on my phone.Rob62 said:
No he doesn't, Jimmy said Duchatelet made the comment about replacing Powell at half time in that video, which considering it is a video about the tough week which included that decision makes perfect sense. The comment about not being bothered about winning was made at a different time.colthe3rd said:So on his Twitter he says that about the "not bothered about winning" comment that he was told during an interview that is on youtube but has been edited out. Having watched that interview it seems a bit off. RD clearly knows what to say in terms of what fans want to hear, e.g he denies about turning into a feeder club, praises CP and says he's a very good manager, says the fans are excellent and that the support is important to the team. Why then in the middle of saying all those fan friendly things would he blurt out that he doesn't care about winning? It just doesn't seem to fit.
I'm not saying he didn't say it or calling Jimmy a liar it just seems strange. RD is a politician after all and knows saying anything like that would be shooting yourself in the foot. Also I don't understand why he wouldn't want to win. I've said before I'm sure his ultimate goal is to get us to the PL. There is literally no other way this club could be profitable enough for someone to buy. Perhaps something was lost in translation? Also seems a bit unlikely as his English does seem usually good but also a possibility.
I'm not dismissing off hand what he has put on Twitter but I also don't want to jump on it immediately and shout "look look look, we're doomed" etc.
I think the point still stands though. I don't really see why he would say it nor why it would be true.
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Well he did say it, I can tell you that with 100% confidence
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sorry but that still doesn't excuse the players performance in my eyes. They were still getting paid for playing football. Also, wouldn't it make you more determined to go out and perform for the gaffer to show support for him and send him off with a win?kentred2 said:
That shyte at Sheffield was down to Roland. The players and Powell obviuosly new before the game Powell had been sacked. That Roland could not give a shyte about Charlton fans was proved that day.Essex_Al said:
If I was the owner and saw the shite that was served up at Sheffield, I'd want to change the manager at half time as well!ricky_otto said:Christ knows what is happening behind the scenes. Wouldn't at all surprise me if that nutcase of an owner wanted to change manages at half time. Maybe we should give Luzon, Peeters and a random person 30 mins each on Saturday.
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Not to mention the prospect of a cup semi final at Wembley for the players.LargeAddick said:
sorry but that still doesn't excuse the players performance in my eyes. They were still getting paid for playing football. Also, wouldn't it make you more determined to go out and perform for the gaffer to show support for him and send him off with a win?kentred2 said:
That shyte at Sheffield was down to Roland. The players and Powell obviuosly new before the game Powell had been sacked. That Roland could not give a shyte about Charlton fans was proved that day.Essex_Al said:
If I was the owner and saw the shite that was served up at Sheffield, I'd want to change the manager at half time as well!ricky_otto said:Christ knows what is happening behind the scenes. Wouldn't at all surprise me if that nutcase of an owner wanted to change manages at half time. Maybe we should give Luzon, Peeters and a random person 30 mins each on Saturday.
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Nonsense about that was down to twochalets, the players should have looked at the away end and thought fuck him let's make it impossible to get rid of Powelly unless he walked
In refuse to accept that the miss from harriot which was a huge changing point in that game was down to RD
Or the ridiculous subs made that had no impact on the game
A Wembley appearance a packed away end vocal to the max
If you can't do it for us I am glad most are no longer here5
