Do people seriously think that RD wants us to lose games ?
Do people seriously think Riga had his track suit on ready to get in the dug out at half time at Sheff U ?
I think some translation issues, no little drama and various people hoping for the worst is possibly at play here.
Have not seen anyone say he WANTS us to lose games or that Riga was going to take over at HT.
Someone who worked at the club said RD said "he is different as not winning is not important to him"
you might be happy with RD and that is your opinion and you have a right to feel that. I personally believe that RD has no interest in us really achieving anything in football terms. I think he would be happy to break even in the championship and selling players at a profit for the network and replacing them with what he deems to good enough and repeating the process again.
The issue with that is that he has not shown really that he has an understanding of what a good enough player is and therefor I am not confident it is for the good of Charlton.
If it is about players the performance of the team is irrelevant.
History tells us that Michael Gliksten sold Len Glover for a then British record fee for a winger. Billy Bonds, Mike Bailey and Marvin Hinton to name but three were also sold for decent money by the standards of the time.
Charlton were a struggling second tier club for most of the period those players were with us. 63-64 was the one decent season.
The Gliksten model is hardly one that anyone in business would follow though, Len. The consequences of such a strategy on the pitch led to relegation & near-bankruptcy. Even if you have a reasonable stream of young players, the returns are uncertain - look how cheaply we offloaded Paul Elliott, for example. (or Alan Campbell).
On the other hand, our run to the play offs mid 90s surely enhanced Lee Bowyer's value, and we got a very good price there. So on-the-pitch failure will undermine any attempt to simply tread water & sell on young players
Wasn't the near bankruptcy down to Hulyer over stretching (Simonsen etc) rather than Gliksten though?
I'm not defending it. God knows I still remember the sheer frustration in the Gliksten times of decent players being sold just as a breakthrough looked possible.
That said though if the business plan is developing players for resale at a profit it can be done regardless of the team's results.
I mentioned Gliksten because it's close to home but Dario Gradi and Crewe is another example.
If my job or my employees job was to perform in an fa cup the best cup competition in the world and get a result in front of thousands of our own adoring fans and play at Wembley the national stadium
Then yes my own selfishness and will to win that separates me from the 9999999 players who could have made it pro but got me to a championship club in an fa cup qtr final
Would kick in and I'd say fuck it boys we can't influence that going on out the back of the club but we can do this regardless
And if you can't like they couldn't then don't be so surprised when they melted
Do people seriously think that RD wants us to lose games ?
Do people seriously think Riga had his track suit on ready to get in the dug out at half time at Sheff U ?
I think some translation issues, no little drama and various people hoping for the worst is possibly at play here.
Exactly PL54, Roly spent £14m to buy us (plus the extra he had to fork out for us staying up!) and is losing another £5m a year, of course he wants us to lose!
If my job or my employees job was to perform in an fa cup the best cup competition in the world and get a result in front of thousands of our own adoring fans and play at Wembley the national stadium
Then yes my own selfishness and will to win that separates me from the 9999999 players who could have made it pro but got me to a championship club in an fa cup qtr final
Would kick in and I'd say fuck it boys we can't influence that going on out the back of the club but we can do this regardless
And if you can't like they couldn't then don't be so surprised when they melted
Literally like talking to a brick wall here. Read my posts, it has nothing to do with melting or not being bothered.
It had everything to do with it, lack of pride self respect and respect to the thousands who travelled
Save the psychological babble for those that want it and if our players need it that bad our recruitment policy is wrong and we need more selfish and driven players in the future
Do people seriously think that RD wants us to lose games ?
Do people seriously think Riga had his track suit on ready to get in the dug out at half time at Sheff U ?
I think some translation issues, no little drama and various people hoping for the worst is possibly at play here.
Exactly PL54, Roly spent £14m to buy us (plus the extra he had to fork out for us staying up!) and is losing another £5m a year, of course he wants us to lose!
I think when he bought us he saw a way with Financial Fair Play (FFP) that he could both make money through player sales plus progress the Club and make money via the Prem too.
However the big clubs have blown FFP right out of the water and he is not prepared to indulge in football's fantasy economics.
Therefore just concentrate on developing the players and the fans can do what they like. If things get too bad The Valley can be sold for housing development. Happy Days!
WCA we the fans deserve more loyalty from players than anyone else in the club on any other game I would accept that view point but the qtr finals of the fa cup you do that over shit surrounding the mgmt
Then your not deserving of the title professional footballer nor the concern of the fans to your treatment within the club
Personal pride and respect to.your fans or hide behind the mask of disruption,
Cowards and not fit to wear the shirt if the latter
I think you go too far in thinking what you hope for is in fact the reality. While we are trying to get an understanding of the current situation you are stuck in an imaginary state of affairs from a single event a year ago. You are drawing the spotlight away from the network, finding fault in a departed ex-manager and players who played that day. If you can't take account of the relationships in effect at that time, your analysis is limited and you are stuck in the how it feels and continues to feel plane of experience. More generally you might have trouble getting over things that have happened to you life. That is a form of idealism that kentaddick has rightly picked up on but others seem to suffer this idealisation of history and it's not actually helpful.
Kent addick - let's say your scenario happened in an ambulance/fire department. Some well respected member of staff was wrongfully sacked etc etc etc - can the medics and fireman sulk about it the following shift and not give their all?
Nothing to do with being a robot - it's to do with having respect for yourself and your responsibilities.
And they're not even earning nearly the same amount of money as an incentive/reward for displaying those skills.
This has nothing to do with now and what's happening it's about that day and the way it's being used as a stick to blame Rd with
Crack on with the other things that have happened since then, I don't subscribe to the fear
But do not give the players excuse to hide behind what was a day for them more than us and a day to have a memory of playing at Wembley
They melted they let emotions get in the way of a winner mentality and that's a weakness they need to live with and get over in.the ever want to win either here or elsewhere
I get the feeling that RD does not want to lose, and certainly does not want us to be relegated, but if we finish 4th from bottom, that would be OK. He does not care about winning a lot, as long as we win enough to stay up. Hence he will not spend money to get us to the top, just enough to keep us in the championship
It had everything to do with it, lack of pride self respect and respect to the thousands who travelled
Save the psychological babble for those that want it and if our players need it that bad our recruitment policy is wrong and we need more selfish and driven players in the future
I'm fully with NLA here. It's all about personal pride. When I was under the threat of redundancy it didn't stop me doing my job properly especially as I wouldn't have wanted to let down the rest of our small team. Managers come, managers go in football. It's the game these days. If you can't get yourself up to win a game which could get you to a FA Cup semi-final, if you can't perform for 6,000 fans who have travelled to watch you play, then maybe you are in the wrong profession.
It had everything to do with it, lack of pride self respect and respect to the thousands who travelled
Save the psychological babble for those that want it and if our players need it that bad our recruitment policy is wrong and we need more selfish and driven players in the future
If your job was in jeopardy due to a new network nobody is sure of, your boss' job was as good as done (one who you highly respected - especially in Poyet's amongst many others case due to moulding him as a player and giving him a chance professionally) and you knew this pre match, would you perform at 100%? If anything those fans were just adding pressure to it all, and Sheff Utd fans were probably even better than our own - so sort of negates it. An honest answer please, as it was nothing to do with lack of self pride and respect to the fans, that's just deluded.
This has nothing to do with now and what's happening it's about that day and the way it's being used as a stick to blame Rd with
Crack on with the other things that have happened since then, I don't subscribe to the fear
But do not give the players excuse to hide behind what was a day for them more than us and a day to have a memory of playing at Wembley
They melted they let emotions get in the way of a winner mentality and that's a weakness they need to live with and get over in.the ever want to win either here or elsewhere
You are talking about a single scenario. RD has given the fans plenty of reason not to trust his ownership of the club. This doesn't all stem back to that game. Sure it's where it began because it was the day Powell knew he was out of a job. But since then there has been a catalogue of issues that have culminated in this mass feeling of apathy and disillusionment.
Move on. That day is gone, and whatever happened on that day cannot be changed.
It had everything to do with it, lack of pride self respect and respect to the thousands who travelled
Save the psychological babble for those that want it and if our players need it that bad our recruitment policy is wrong and we need more selfish and driven players in the future
I'm fully with NLA here. It's all about personal pride. When I was under the threat of redundancy it didn't stop me doing my job properly especially as I wouldn't have wanted to let down the rest of our small team. Managers come, managers go in football. It's the game these days. If you can't get yourself up to win a game which could get you to a FA Cup semi-final, if you can't perform for 6,000 fans who have travelled to watch you play, then maybe you are in the wrong profession.
This has nothing to do with now and what's happening it's about that day and the way it's being used as a stick to blame Rd with
Crack on with the other things that have happened since then, I don't subscribe to the fear
But do not give the players excuse to hide behind what was a day for them more than us and a day to have a memory of playing at Wembley
They melted they let emotions get in the way of a winner mentality and that's a weakness they need to live with and get over in.the ever want to win either here or elsewhere
You are talking about a single scenario. RD has given the fans plenty of reason not to trust his ownership of the club. This doesn't all stem back to that game. Sure it's where it began because it was the day Powell knew he was out of a job. But since then there has been a catalogue of issues that have culminated in this mass feeling of apathy and disillusionment.
Move on. That day is gone, and whatever happened on that day cannot be changed.
Going round in circles here. The only reason that day was brought up was because, as NLA mentions, some are using it as a stick to beat RD with.
It had everything to do with it, lack of pride self respect and respect to the thousands who travelled
Save the psychological babble for those that want it and if our players need it that bad our recruitment policy is wrong and we need more selfish and driven players in the future
I'm fully with NLA here. It's all about personal pride. When I was under the threat of redundancy it didn't stop me doing my job properly especially as I wouldn't have wanted to let down the rest of our small team. Managers come, managers go in football. It's the game these days. If you can't get yourself up to win a game which could get you to a FA Cup semi-final, if you can't perform for 6,000 fans who have travelled to watch you play, then maybe you are in the wrong profession.
Agreed. When we were under threat of redundancy, we hit record breaking figures. Our attitude was "you want to get rid of us after pulling of the best performance in the history of the company?" and funnily enough, we're all still here.
It's just a shame I'd bite my arm off for redundancy now!
Kind of got a foot in both camps here. While I agree with you NLA to a certain extent, and you'd think a Wembley semi final would be a huge motivation, all the uncertainty and the knowledge that Powell will be leaving would most certainly lead to underperformance. That's not to do with bottling anything, just a slight subconscious thought that the players probably weren't even aware of. Sport talks of marginal gains, and the circumstances around te game would have lead to a lack of the marginal gain, even if players unaware.
Nor spending money on players, regular player sales. That sounds just like Charlton throughout its history! I started going regularly in the early 90s and every year someone would go, and often not for decent money either Watson Lee Webster Minto Bowyer etc
To not be up for a quarter final would be odd, even with all the nonsense going on. And RD would most definitely have wanted us to win that match, think of how much we would have made from a Wembley semi final!
Nice to know our players are lily livered cowards the clean out was correct then from top to bottom
It's great that the network has brought us a succession of real heart on the sleeve positive characters to replace them, otherwise we'd really be in the shit
NLA had decent inside links at the time, and there is no way he can deny that behind the scenes, things were nothing short of a shambles at the time. Huge clashes between management and owners, squad rifts over the influx of insufficient signings, broken promises on previous verbal deals etc. The managers job was on its last legs and a lot of players didn't want to be here any more (some were already well advanced in talks with other clubs).
That is not in any way the right prep for potentially one of the biggest games in your career.
Nla is right that to an extent that none of that should have mattered, they still should have performed on the day. Had Harriott not missed a sitter, we would have been at Wembley I've no doubt about that.
Don't think we should dwell on that period in any way other than on the issue 'has Roland learned from any mistakes at the ?'
I like the move on bit being aimed in page 5 but yet the reason why that day happened in pages two and three are Rd and the issues now
See its that sort of moving goal posts to suit positions that make it difficult for people like me who dont just follow things blindly and need substance and facts not theories and thought
But hey its my head that's buried, but I will keep it buried and make my own decisions based on facts
I think RD was waiting for the right moment to relieve Powell of his duties and going out to Sheff United was the right moment for RD. Had we beaten Sheff U that day or draw and gone on to win the replay and gone on to Wembley then Powelly have stayed longer and led us out at Wembley. RD then may well have pulled the plug on Powelly's managership after the semi. He may have stayed on longer. If relegation had been confirmed under Powell then RD might have pulled the plug then. If Powelly had kept us up and stayed till the end of the season, I reckon with Powelly's contract expiring I don't reckon RD would have renewed it. So looking back (as much as I hate to say it) it was a matter of when and not if RD would let Powelly go.
Well he did say it, I can tell you that with 100% confidence
Oh well in that case I completely believe it
As far as I know, nobody on this forum has spoken at length with Roland Duchatelet about anything. Jimmy Stone has. You can choose to play the skeptic card as usual, but I'm more than happy to take Jimmy's word for whats going on.
I think RD was waiting for the right moment to relieve Powell of his duties and going out to Sheff United was the right moment for RD. Had we beaten Sheff U that day or draw and gone on to win the replay and gone on to Wembley then Powelly have stayed longer and led us out at Wembley. RD then may well have pulled the plug on Powelly's managership after the semi. He may have stayed on longer. If relegation had been confirmed under Powell then RD might have pulled the plug then. If Powelly had kept us up and stayed till the end of the season, I reckon with Powelly's contract expiring I don't reckon RD would have renewed it. So looking back (as much as I hate to say it) it was a matter of when and not if RD would let Powelly go.
I also think mentally Powell was done as well. Not just under RD, but the whole Jimenez & Slater mess.
Comments
Someone who worked at the club said RD said "he is different as not winning is not important to him"
you might be happy with RD and that is your opinion and you have a right to feel that. I personally believe that RD has no interest in us really achieving anything in football terms. I think he would be happy to break even in the championship and selling players at a profit for the network and replacing them with what he deems to good enough and repeating the process again.
The issue with that is that he has not shown really that he has an understanding of what a good enough player is and therefor I am not confident it is for the good of Charlton.
I'm not defending it. God knows I still remember the sheer frustration in the Gliksten times of decent players being sold just as a breakthrough looked possible.
That said though if the business plan is developing players for resale at a profit it can be done regardless of the team's results.
I mentioned Gliksten because it's close to home but Dario Gradi and Crewe is another example.
Then yes my own selfishness and will to win that separates me from the 9999999 players who could have made it pro but got me to a championship club in an fa cup qtr final
Would kick in and I'd say fuck it boys we can't influence that going on out the back of the club but we can do this regardless
And if you can't like they couldn't then don't be so surprised when they melted
Save the psychological babble for those that want it and if our players need it that bad our recruitment policy is wrong and we need more selfish and driven players in the future
However the big clubs have blown FFP right out of the water and he is not prepared to indulge in football's fantasy economics.
Therefore just concentrate on developing the players and the fans can do what they like. If things get too bad The Valley can be sold for housing development. Happy Days!
The fans are a tiresome irrelevance.
Nothing to do with being a robot - it's to do with having respect for yourself and your responsibilities.
And they're not even earning nearly the same amount of money as an incentive/reward for displaying those skills.
Crack on with the other things that have happened since then, I don't subscribe to the fear
But do not give the players excuse to hide behind what was a day for them more than us and a day to have a memory of playing at Wembley
They melted they let emotions get in the way of a winner mentality and that's a weakness they need to live with and get over in.the ever want to win either here or elsewhere
Move on. That day is gone, and whatever happened on that day cannot be changed.
It's just a shame I'd bite my arm off for redundancy now!
Watson
Lee
Webster
Minto
Bowyer etc
To not be up for a quarter final would be odd, even with all the nonsense going on. And RD would most definitely have wanted us to win that match, think of how much we would have made from a Wembley semi final!
NLA had decent inside links at the time, and there is no way he can deny that behind the scenes, things were nothing short of a shambles at the time. Huge clashes between management and owners, squad rifts over the influx of insufficient signings, broken promises on previous verbal deals etc. The managers job was on its last legs and a lot of players didn't want to be here any more (some were already well advanced in talks with other clubs).
That is not in any way the right prep for potentially one of the biggest games in your career.
Nla is right that to an extent that none of that should have mattered, they still should have performed on the day. Had Harriott not missed a sitter, we would have been at Wembley I've no doubt about that.
Don't think we should dwell on that period in any way other than on the issue 'has Roland learned from any mistakes at the ?'
My suspicion is no.
See its that sort of moving goal posts to suit positions that make it difficult for people like me who dont just follow things blindly and need substance and facts not theories and thought
But hey its my head that's buried, but I will keep it buried and make my own decisions based on facts
As it was the right thing to do, I expect winners in a team especially with that on the line
I think the issue is that he doesn't appear to care either way
He may not mind losing the odd game, but he certainly would mind losing money and relegation.