I see both sides of this. In terms of its cinematography and how good a visual spectacle it is, I can't deny there did seem to be some moments out of character or that were absurd plot armour.
Arya surviving everything around her- does certainly lead quite nicely to a scenario in which she kills Dany, but if that doesn't happen, it will certainly weaken the buildup of the eyes prophecy that was used to justify her killing the Night King.
Jon also to me seems to have suddenly become useless- from leading the defence of the Wall, to all the buildup of him as the Prince That Was Promised, him slaying a Walker at Hardhome- and even despite his tactical ineptitude at Battle of The Bastards, constantly showing how good a fighter and how strong a sense of morality he has. Then by now, he's become blind to Daenerys' descent into madness... It seemed like the one scene of him pulling one of the invaders off a woman was to show he's still Jon, which doesn't quite redeem the whole screaming at a dragon business in Winterfell.
Even as stated on here before, Tyrion suddenly becoming clueless and Grey Worm's now rabid violent streak (which imho isn't legitimised by Missandei's death- he's stood so strongly by his values all series until now)... Rhaegal the dragon dying so easily one episode, and the next episode, Drogon being the fantasy equivalent of a nuclear armageddon.
I feel like Daenerys burning King's Landing down was well built upon, so that is something I feel is being unduly and harshly criticised.
As I say, I enjoyed the episode, but I think the dismissal of criticism as being edgy or harsh isn't fair or accurate- there were legitimate flaws in the episode, honestly.
Very well put, @garrymanilow - I think watching the show again will show this direction makes a lot of sense for her. She’s often talked about burning stuff down, and we’ve had visions of her dragon over Kings Landing (same shot was in this episode) as well as ash falling on the iron throne. Short of starting the show with this episode and treating the rest as a flashback, I don’t see how it could have been better sign-posted!
She has won. The bells sounded. She knew it was over. There was zero reason to burn 100,000 people or whatever. Just because a character said one statement a season or two ago does not makes sense in their arc. She is supposto be the “breaker of chains” not the women to burn innocents to death. There is no buildup to the Mad Queen. Basically she is just goes nuts because her nephew won’t sleep with her anymore. Lazy as shit writing in my opinion. The writers were apparently offered 10 episodes by HBO but they wanted to move on and write the new Star Wars movies and so just stopped giving a shit. “Signposts” are not arcs or proper character development. This is crap and and the worst ending to a series since Dexter.
I believe you've confused 'does not make sense in their arc' with 'not what I wanted to happen'. Either that or I'm concerned you don't actually understand the show you're watching. It's certainly been rushed this season, but everything that happened with Danaerys has been built up across the show from the start. She's constantly threatened to burn (and has burned) people around her. She's regularly been tempered by her advisors. But now she has lost everything, and she's decided to rule over the ashes rather than lose any more. Of course she's supposed to be the breaker of chains; but she isn't. That's the point. That's the entire point. She's been becoming more and more unhinged since arriving in Westeros, and all she's doing now is a larger-scale version of what she did in Essos, but now it's in Westeros it's so much worse to watch because the justification of killing slavers or pillaging rapists isn't there. Danaerys, alone, unloved and untethered makes the decision to reject her promise of breaking the wheel and becomes another spoke in it, just like her father before her. This is her character arc, it's what she's always been heading towards
Is Jon still alive? I though one of the body's Arya looked at (hard) just before mounting the horse had a sword hilt like Jon's....... we only saw him calling his troops to leave the city, we never saw if they made it...... And he's not in the trailer for the very last episode ...
Shame to see Varys go who has been one of my favourites and still really hope that Tyrion manages to live (Doubt it though)
Got a feeling we'll see Dany getting killed next week; Greyworm v Jon has to be a fight scene with the latter potentially winning after that look they gave each other
Reckon at the moment we'll see either Arya or Gendry on the Iron Throne at the end of it; Gendry being made a genuine Baratheon my logic behind him
Shame to see Varys go who has been one of my favourites and still really hope that Tyrion manages to live (Doubt it though)
Got a feeling we'll see Dany getting killed next week; Greyworm v Jon has to be a fight scene with the latter potentially winning after that look they gave each other
Reckon at the moment we'll see either Arya or Gendry on the Iron Throne at the end of it; Gendry being made a genuine Baratheon my logic behind him
And that would bring us full circle. Essentially the game of thrones would have gone nowhere.
Shame to see Varys go who has been one of my favourites and still really hope that Tyrion manages to live (Doubt it though)
Got a feeling we'll see Dany getting killed next week; Greyworm v Jon has to be a fight scene with the latter potentially winning after that look they gave each other
Reckon at the moment we'll see either Arya or Gendry on the Iron Throne at the end of it; Gendry being made a genuine Baratheon my logic behind him
And that would bring us full circle. Essentially the game of thrones would have gone nowhere.
Great episode and I think we needed it to be exactly as it was to set up the ending. As others have said, best episode of season 8. Oddly enough I’m now ready for it to end. It has and probably always will be the best tv show ever.
Jaime and Cersei's death felt so underwhelming to me, I've generally enjoyed the season unlike a lot of people but so much of this has been unnecessarily rushed.
The Varys storyline over a full season could have been really good but he's basically done nothing for 3 seasons, then has a huge part in an episode and 10 mins of the next where he's probably the best thing about it, then dies.
Would have been a much better ending than the one we see of Arya riding away... Again its probably a good couple of minutes that feel as though are in there for the sake of it, then again the last couple of Episodes have been dragged out in slow motion taking an age to complete which has left me getting impatient and bored; Only the Night King scene and the one with Cersei and Jamie deserved that
Reminds at times of a Peter Jackson film either with Lord of the Rings or King Kong
Great episode and I think we needed it to be exactly as it was to set up the ending. As others have said, best episode of season 8. Oddly enough I’m now ready for it to end. It has and probably always will be the best tv show ever.
100% this I am sitting here totally and utterly ready for it to close
Jaime and Cersei's death felt so underwhelming to me, I've generally enjoyed the season unlike a lot of people but so much of this has been unnecessarily rushed.
The Varys storyline over a full season could have been really good but he's basically done nothing for 3 seasons, then has a huge part in an episode and 10 mins of the next where he's probably the best thing about it, then dies.
Definitely underwhelming. So much for the prophecy that Cersei is choked to death by her little brother. It was an evil conspiracy between gravity and masonry that did for her!
They also stitched up Arya and her Cersei revenge motivation the same way the stitched up Jon with the Night King. She's spent all those years reciting her list of people she's going to kill - Cersei is top the list, but when she's there in the Red Keep, the focus of all her revenge in reach, the Hound tells her to pack it in. She just goes, "OK" and leaves to go wandering about the streets, clueless, pointless and lost. She should stick to killing, saving people really ain't her game!
Jaime and Cersei's death felt so underwhelming to me, I've generally enjoyed the season unlike a lot of people but so much of this has been unnecessarily rushed.
The Varys storyline over a full season could have been really good but he's basically done nothing for 3 seasons, then has a huge part in an episode and 10 mins of the next where he's probably the best thing about it, then dies.
Definitely underwhelming. So much for the prophecy that Cersei is choked to death by her little brother. It was an evil conspiracy between gravity and masonry that did for her!
They also stitched up Arya and her Cersei revenge motivation the same way the stitched up Jon with the Night King. She's spent all those years reciting her list of people she's going to kill - Cersei is top the list, but when she's there in the Red Keep, the focus of all her revenge in reach, the Hound tells her to pack it in. She just goes, "OK" and leaves to go wandering about the streets, clueless, pointless and lost. She should stick to killing, saving people really ain't her game!
What would pain pain her more
being burned quickly by Dani
killed by a stark
or realizing in your final moments that your children all of them
your father your insest loving brother and yourself
have all died for fuck all in a cellar with the roof falling in
Apart from the visuals I honestly thought that episode was complete tosh!
I hate that GOT has gone all Hollywood on us. The Hound v Mountain showdown reminded me of Luke Skywalkers battle with Darth Vader in The Empire Strikes Back (the one where he loses his arm).
The earlier seasons were so much better than this.
Jaime and Cersei's death felt so underwhelming to me, I've generally enjoyed the season unlike a lot of people but so much of this has been unnecessarily rushed.
The Varys storyline over a full season could have been really good but he's basically done nothing for 3 seasons, then has a huge part in an episode and 10 mins of the next where he's probably the best thing about it, then dies.
Definitely underwhelming. So much for the prophecy that Cersei is choked to death by her little brother. It was an evil conspiracy between gravity and masonry that did for her!
They also stitched up Arya and her Cersei revenge motivation the same way the stitched up Jon with the Night King. She's spent all those years reciting her list of people she's going to kill - Cersei is top the list, but when she's there in the Red Keep, the focus of all her revenge in reach, the Hound tells her to pack it in. She just goes, "OK" and leaves to go wandering about the streets, clueless, pointless and lost. She should stick to killing, saving people really ain't her game!
What would pain pain her more
being burned quickly by Dani
killed by a stark
or realizing in your final moments that your children all of them
your father your insest loving brother and yourself
have all died for fuck all in a cellar with the roof falling in
however maybe she and Jamie ain’t dead
I know Dan & Dave love to pull the old fake out certain death, then cut away only to reveal everything is OK later after all. They abused the shit out of that little trick in ep3. Cersei and Jaime are squashed flat dead though. Lena Headey is on record as saying she wasn't keen on how Cersei checks out, but in the end she bought that her and Jaime went together.
Those last scenes, with the charred bodies of women and children, reminded me of the powerful photographic images we have all seen of the aftermath of the firebombing of Dresden and the atomic bombing of Hiroshima.
Visually that was stunning, emotionally the scenes with the commoners all dying etc was affecting and disturbing. The Hound and The Mountain was really good. And yet....
I just don't get the Daenerys thing. I mean, I do, driven mad by the quest for power, she's always had harsher instincts etc, but there's such a big difference between burning her enemies etc and roasting thousands of innocent kids alive after you've already won. It just felt pointless to me. And odd.
And Cersei should have been choked to death by a valonqar, it's just daft to ignore that.
Top notch for me. Everyone on here follows this closely and are fans of the show given how well they’ve built it up over the years, we have very high expectations. I can’t fault it really. Of all the series I’ve watched in my life, whenever they approach the end, stuff happens to speed it up a tad. Sons of Anarchy, Sopranos, Lost etc. This wasn’t going to be any different for me
I personally didn’t see that coming, despite Dany being a Targaryen and the fact that turning mad runs in her blood. I’d bought into Arya taking out Cersei and the shock value for me when Dany did turn was well done I felt. What better way to ensure a series as a finality than by simply destroying an entire city and thus avoiding how to feasibly get Dany to sit on the throne alongside Jon backing her.
The whole show, including this series has been immense for me. I can see the whole Arya killing Dany in the final episode, but can also see her potentially committing suicide in some way, given that she’s totally lost the plot and there’s likely just a few unsullied to rule over and some Dothraki
who knows. Hats off to all of them that have worked on that show. Some of it over the years has had the old goose bumps on high and the suspense overpowering. Some of the best tv I think you can ever get
Jaime and Cersei's death felt so underwhelming to me, I've generally enjoyed the season unlike a lot of people but so much of this has been unnecessarily rushed.
The Varys storyline over a full season could have been really good but he's basically done nothing for 3 seasons, then has a huge part in an episode and 10 mins of the next where he's probably the best thing about it, then dies.
Definitely underwhelming. So much for the prophecy that Cersei is choked to death by her little brother
Comments
Arya surviving everything around her- does certainly lead quite nicely to a scenario in which she kills Dany, but if that doesn't happen, it will certainly weaken the buildup of the eyes prophecy that was used to justify her killing the Night King.
Jon also to me seems to have suddenly become useless- from leading the defence of the Wall, to all the buildup of him as the Prince That Was Promised, him slaying a Walker at Hardhome- and even despite his tactical ineptitude at Battle of The Bastards, constantly showing how good a fighter and how strong a sense of morality he has. Then by now, he's become blind to Daenerys' descent into madness... It seemed like the one scene of him pulling one of the invaders off a woman was to show he's still Jon, which doesn't quite redeem the whole screaming at a dragon business in Winterfell.
Even as stated on here before, Tyrion suddenly becoming clueless and Grey Worm's now rabid violent streak (which imho isn't legitimised by Missandei's death- he's stood so strongly by his values all series until now)... Rhaegal the dragon dying so easily one episode, and the next episode, Drogon being the fantasy equivalent of a nuclear armageddon.
I feel like Daenerys burning King's Landing down was well built upon, so that is something I feel is being unduly and harshly criticised.
As I say, I enjoyed the episode, but I think the dismissal of criticism as being edgy or harsh isn't fair or accurate- there were legitimate flaws in the episode, honestly.
I though one of the body's Arya looked at (hard) just before mounting the horse had a sword hilt like Jon's.......
we only saw him calling his troops to leave the city, we never saw if they made it......
And he's not in the trailer for the very last episode ...
Shame to see Varys go who has been one of my favourites and still really hope that Tyrion manages to live (Doubt it though)
Got a feeling we'll see Dany getting killed next week; Greyworm v Jon has to be a fight scene with the latter potentially winning after that look they gave each other
Reckon at the moment we'll see either Arya or Gendry on the Iron Throne at the end of it; Gendry being made a genuine Baratheon my logic behind him
The Varys storyline over a full season could have been really good but he's basically done nothing for 3 seasons, then has a huge part in an episode and 10 mins of the next where he's probably the best thing about it, then dies.
Would have been a much better ending than the one we see of Arya riding away... Again its probably a good couple of minutes that feel as though are in there for the sake of it, then again the last couple of Episodes have been dragged out in slow motion taking an age to complete which has left me getting impatient and bored; Only the Night King scene and the one with Cersei and Jamie deserved that
Reminds at times of a Peter Jackson film either with Lord of the Rings or King Kong
100% this I am sitting here totally and utterly ready for it to close
Arya to kill Dani - Jon to kill grey worm
arya and gendry on the throne
Definitely underwhelming. So much for the prophecy that Cersei is choked to death by her little brother. It was an evil conspiracy between gravity and masonry that did for her!
They also stitched up Arya and her Cersei revenge motivation the same way the stitched up Jon with the Night King. She's spent all those years reciting her list of people she's going to kill - Cersei is top the list, but when she's there in the Red Keep, the focus of all her revenge in reach, the Hound tells her to pack it in. She just goes, "OK" and leaves to go wandering about the streets, clueless, pointless and lost. She should stick to killing, saving people really ain't her game!
What would pain pain her more
being burned quickly by Dani
killed by a stark
or realizing in your final moments that your children all of them
your father your insest loving brother and yourself
have all died for fuck all in a cellar with the roof falling in
however maybe she and Jamie ain’t dead
I hate that GOT has gone all Hollywood on us. The Hound v Mountain showdown reminded me of Luke Skywalkers battle with Darth Vader in The Empire Strikes Back (the one where he loses his arm).
The earlier seasons were so much better than this.
What was the favour that Tyrion asked for?
I just don't get the Daenerys thing. I mean, I do, driven mad by the quest for power, she's always had harsher instincts etc, but there's such a big difference between burning her enemies etc and roasting thousands of innocent kids alive after you've already won. It just felt pointless to me. And odd.
And Cersei should have been choked to death by a valonqar, it's just daft to ignore that.
I personally didn’t see that coming, despite Dany being a Targaryen and the fact that turning mad runs in her blood. I’d bought into Arya taking out Cersei and the shock value for me when Dany did turn was well done I felt. What better way to ensure a series as a finality than by simply destroying an entire city and thus avoiding how to feasibly get Dany to sit on the throne alongside Jon backing her.
The whole show, including this series has been immense for me. I can see the whole Arya killing Dany in the final episode, but can also see her potentially committing suicide in some way, given that she’s totally lost the plot and there’s likely just a few unsullied to rule over and some Dothraki
who knows. Hats off to all of them that have worked on that show. Some of it over the years has had the old goose bumps on high and the suspense overpowering. Some of the best tv I think you can ever get
no spoilers please.