Deaths of horses at Cheltenham race course
Comments
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It is possible to eat meat and have massive respect for the animal.
Not that this thread is about that0 -
Bit disappointed with some of the contributions to be honest. This thread was clearly not for those who like myself enjoy horse racing, and I respect the post starter for not derailing the Cheltenham one. Posts where you patronise about people being veggies etc just make you look stupid to be honest.
I enjoy horse racing and I winced today seeing Cue Card go down. My reaction wasn't that my bet was screwed up but that it was horrible seeing a horse fall badly and hope they are ok. I can understand how it has a stronger impact on animal lovers who don't like horse racing when they see animals dying live on the telly in the provision of entertainment.
To be honest, with what, seven deaths in 4 days racing at one meet, I'm surprised there isn't more debate about it.9 -
I tried to keep order, but it was mainly MOG and AUN shit stirring. Not sure what you want to do, i think give em a second chance....4
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Indeed, AFKA. Seven? Animal Aid hasn't updated that yet.
Enough side-tracking. Following all these deaths at the Cheltenham Festival what, I wonder, is The Jockey Club and The British Horseracing Authority going to do about it? And who in the mainstream media is asking the question of them?0 -
Not going to bite, just to say......
Very disappointed that I got my first flag ever on this thread.
And, no, I don't want any more please.1 -
What exactly would satisfy you with regard to horse racing, national hunt and flat?Anna_Kissed said:Indeed, AFKA. Seven? Animal Aid hasn't updated that yet.
Enough side-tracking. Following all these deaths at the Cheltenham Festival what, I wonder, is The Jockey Club and The British Horseracing Authority going to do about it? And who in the mainstream media is asking the question of them?0 -
My wife makes a lovely quinoa risotto with asparagus, leek & peas. Not quite a vegan meal as we also have chicken in it but would still be nice without it.Anna_Kissed said:
Quorn in the UK contains egg albumen, so no to that. I gather that, due to demand, they're hoping to introduce an egg-free variety here soon. Quinoa's good, though.Addickted said:
Page seven. Do, keep up AUN.AddickUpNorth said:Where has Anna_Kissed mentioned veganism?
He's been all tofu, beans and quorn since 1998.
What a hero.
There's nothing heroic about being a vegan. It's one diet among many.0 -
If you ever wondered what happened to the real War Horse from the movie.
He was killed and eaten in the UK because the folk were starving and despite his heroics - couldn't justify feeding him when humans were starving.
Just like we breed livestock to eat, we breed horses to race.
No meat-eaters = no cows/sheep/pigs
No racing = no racehorses
These animals would only exist in the wild in small numbers.0 -
An argument that will never have a conclusion I'm afraid.
I love horse racing, I love horses. And I also declare a vested interest as indirectly horse racing has provided me with the opportunity to care for and provide for my family.
I would therefore not support the banning of horse racing. I would however support the banning of the use of the whip (at all), the enforced watering of national hunt courses to enable going never to be firmer than good to firm or good on the landing side of fences. I've also supported the reduction in shape and size of the Grand National fences and the elimination of drops on the landing side of fences. Too many horses are bred for racing which is also something I would support limiting. The racing industry (owners, trainers, jockeys, bookmakers, broadcasters etc..) should be responsible for funding the care of retired racehorses (and does to a very large degree).
The above is also pretty much the stated policy of the RSPCA but clearly does not go far enough for some. But it goes far enough for me. Others will disagree which is their right.
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Is that a good bad or indifferent thing?Valiantphil said:If you ever wondered what happened to the real War Horse from the movie.
He was killed and eaten in the UK because the folk were starving and despite his heroics - couldn't justify feeding him when humans were starving.
Just like we breed livestock to eat, we breed horses to race.
No meat-eaters = no cows/sheep/pigs
No racing = no racehorses
These animals would only exist in the wild in small numbers.
For me if there were fewer cows there would be less deforestation, cleaner air, less food grown specifically for animals, less antibiotic use (bacteria resistant to the last ditch antibiotic now exist thanks to its use in intensive pig farms in China. Thank for that) so if we all ate less meat... Or no meat... Fewer farm animals, better all round.
Sorry, bit of a diversion that2 -
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Best post on this thread in my opinionbobmunro said:An argument that will never have a conclusion I'm afraid.
I love horse racing, I love horses. And I also declare a vested interest as indirectly horse racing has provided me with the opportunity to care for and provide for my family.
I would therefore not support the banning of horse racing. I would however support the banning of the use of the whip (at all), the enforced watering of national hunt courses to enable going never to be firmer than good to firm or good on the landing side of fences. I've also supported the reduction in shape and size of the Grand National fences and the elimination of drops on the landing side of fences. Too many horses are bred for racing which is also something I would support limiting. The racing industry (owners, trainers, jockeys, bookmakers, broadcasters etc..) should be responsible for funding the care of retired racehorses (and does to a very large degree).
The above is also pretty much the stated policy of the RSPCA but clearly does not go far enough for some. But it goes far enough for me. Others will disagree which is their right.2 -
Nature will sort it.McBobbin said:
Is that a good bad or indifferent thing?Valiantphil said:If you ever wondered what happened to the real War Horse from the movie.
He was killed and eaten in the UK because the folk were starving and despite his heroics - couldn't justify feeding him when humans were starving.
Just like we breed livestock to eat, we breed horses to race.
No meat-eaters = no cows/sheep/pigs
No racing = no racehorses
These animals would only exist in the wild in small numbers.
For me if there were fewer cows there would be less deforestation, cleaner air, less food grown specifically for animals, less antibiotic use (bacteria resistant to the last ditch antibiotic now exist thanks to its use in intensive pig farms in China. Thank for that) so if we all ate less meat... Or no meat... Fewer farm animals, better all round.
Sorry, bit of a diversion that
It is always trying.
Natural death or......... (not going to say Murder in case it upsets).0 -
McBobbin said:
Is that a good bad or indifferent thing?Valiantphil said:If you ever wondered what happened to the real War Horse from the movie.
He was killed and eaten in the UK because the folk were starving and despite his heroics - couldn't justify feeding him when humans were starving.
Just like we breed livestock to eat, we breed horses to race.
No meat-eaters = no cows/sheep/pigs
No racing = no racehorses
These animals would only exist in the wild in small numbers.
For me if there were fewer cows there would be less deforestation, cleaner air, less food grown specifically for animals, less antibiotic use (bacteria resistant to the last ditch antibiotic now exist thanks to its use in intensive pig farms in China. Thank for that) so if we all ate less meat... Or no meat... Fewer farm animals, better all round.
Sorry, bit of a diversion that
Good points though.
For me the whole 'but there'd be no pigs/sheep/cows if it wasn't for us meat eaters' argument misses the point completely. I'd be happy if there wasn't so many pigs/sheep/cows around because I'd know that they haven't been bred to be used. If anyone believes that your average broiler hen or dairy cow is happy to have been born into a life of exploitation then I'm sorry but you're just plain stupid.5 -
Sorry AFKA, but Anna bought up the subject of vegetarianism and being a vegan, as if it made him better than us omnivores.
The deaths at Cheltenham this week are awful. No one wants to see this, least of all those heavily involved in the sport.
It's the holier that thou attitude that gets to me.3 -
Not sure @Anna_Kissed has said that he is "holier that thou" at all.
He, in my opinion, is saying something that some people on CL agree with,
I like to think that people like myself, Anna, AUN, Seth, etc don't go on the horse racing threads (I honestly don't know, I don't read them) just to get a response.
Maybe AFKA is right......
So, why not start a separate thread,
Horse Racing: Good or Bad: Discuss.1 -
He really didn't though. He was stating it as fact and at no point criticised others. I'm not vegan and saw nothing wrong with his commentsAddickted said:Sorry AFKA, but Anna bought up the subject of vegetarianism and being a vegan, as if it made him better than us omnivores.
The deaths at Cheltenham this week are awful. No one wants to see this, least of all those heavily involved in the sport.
It's the holier that thou attitude that gets to me.3 -
Wrong. I have already stated that I mentioned my diet solely on the basis that someone asked me. Although a distraction from the substantive issue, I nevertheless gave a truthful answer.Addickted said:Sorry AFKA, but Anna bought up the subject of vegetarianism and being a vegan, as if it made him better than us omnivores.
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Miserableoldgit said:
Not sure @Anna_Kissed has said that he is "holier that thou" at all.
He, in my opinion, is saying something that some people on CL agree with,
I like to think that people like myself, Anna, AUN, Seth, etc don't go on the horse racing threads (I honestly don't know, I don't read them) just to get a response.
Maybe AFKA is right......
So, why not start a separate thread,
Horse Racing: Good or Bad: Discuss.
Absolutely. The racing threads are of no interest to me. Primarily because I don't agree with horse racing (or greyhound etc etc) and also because I actually have no interest in getting suited and booted to spend a day probably losing money. So consequently I have never opened a racing thread let alone posted on one. Why would I? I have no interest in trolling or trying to piss people off for no reason.3 -
Could you be so kind as to answer my question as to what would satisfy you with regard to horse racing, both national hunt and flat racing?0
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And another.
Montdragon (FR)
Gelding, aged 6
Jockey: Jody McGarvey
Experience: conditional
Trainer: JJ ONeill
Cause of death: Pulled Up - Fatally Injured
Discipline: National Hunt Hurdle
horsedeathwatch.com/0 -
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Terribly sad. I would point out, however, that the injuries of 4 of the 7 horses that died at Cheltenham were incurred whilst running on the flat and not as a result of falls.Anna_Kissed said:And another.
Montdragon (FR)
Gelding, aged 6
Jockey: Jody McGarvey
Experience: conditional
Trainer: JJ ONeill
Cause of death: Pulled Up - Fatally Injured
Discipline: National Hunt Hurdle
horsedeathwatch.com/0 -
From Horsetalk.co.nz
The RSPCA's equine consultant, David Muir, who is at the Gloucestershire racecourse for the four-day festival to monitor horse welfare, said: “These deaths show the unacceptable face of horse racing. Any death on any racecourse simply cannot be justified.”
Animal Aid weighed in on the latest deaths, labelling the festival a bloody and unforgiving event, and said calling it a sporting event was a travesty.
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Which was my point.Anna_Kissed said:
Although a distraction from the substantive issue.....Addickted said:Sorry AFKA, but Anna bought up the subject of vegetarianism and being a vegan, as if it made him better than us omnivores.
Crying shame the death of all those horses, no one wants to see that. But my missus has been a point to pointer all her life, loves her horses and has convinced me that these beautiful animals love every minute of it.
I'll leave this thread now
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That is not only disingenuous, but untrue. It wasn't your point at all.2
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You have previously pointed out that you were just reporting facts. These are not facts but just prejudiced comments. They will not be happy until horse racing is banned, since if "any death on any racecourse simply cannot be justified" then the only way for that to be rectified is for there to be no horse racing. Ludicrous.Anna_Kissed said:From Horsetalk.co.nz
The RSPCA's equine consultant, David Muir, who is at the Gloucestershire racecourse for the four-day festival to monitor horse welfare, said: “These deaths show the unacceptable face of horse racing. Any death on any racecourse simply cannot be justified.”
Animal Aid weighed in on the latest deaths, labelling the festival a bloody and unforgiving event, and said calling it a sporting event was a travesty.2 -
Set up a thread separate, people want to discuss/argue, please, do it there.0
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So what exactly is this thread for if it isn't to discuss the death of horses and the pros and cons of horse racing?0
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I think that this thread was set up in the hope that people could be sensible and discuss things, unfortunately, again, IMO, some people came on here just to wind people up.
Just go back a few pages and read some quotes.0 -
I totally agree that some quotes are out of order and maybe posted to wind up certain people. The questions that I ask, however, are genuine, as I'm interested to know exactly what people want to happen to racing for them to be satisfied. It is obvious that a complete ban will never happen and I worry that the concessions that have been given will only make matters worse and, therefore, increase the furore surrounding racing.
If, for instance, we have dry weather in the next couple of weeks then the going at Aintree may be good. The race will then be run at a faster pace because the modified fences are not such a challenge as they once were. This increased pace will undoubtedly lead to more falls and the possibility of higher fatalities.
Sometimes changes are not are not always for the best.4 -
Brilliant point about the National Superclive1
