This is an interesting commentary on austerity, it is from the New York Times which I believe is to the right of centre.
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OK Fiish so explain how Osborne has reduced borrowing contrary to all evidence. And did the 2008 global crash never happen? Has the economy recovered to pre-2008 levels?
The annual deficit has reduced by about £55bn a year from its 2010 level. The national debt was never going to be reduced, it would need a budget surplus.
I will concede that talking about the deficit being halved as a % of GDP is a nonsense and why there are claims and counter claims of something that actually mean nothing. It might be factually correct that borrowing has been halved as a % of GDP, but borrowing should be only looked at in absolute numbers. It's like the difference between knowing how much interest you have to pay on your credit card and what percentage it is of your salary. Just because your salary goes up and it becomes a smaller percentage of salary doesn't mean you are paying less interest. The UK GDP is going up so Osborne is able to claim a reduction in borrowings as a percentage of GDP while actual cash borrowings are going up.
Personally I think the Tories are using the deficit reduction as a screen for accelerating their policy of reducing public spending so releasing more money for private investment and growth of the economy. I would support a policy that reduced the size of the public sector but allowed borrowing for investing in better public sector services. My criticism of Labour is not so much that they spent too much, rather they had to borrow for the wrong reasons, creating an over-bloated public sector that needed more money just to run it.
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
It would be interesting as we go along to assess which parties the papers are getting behind.
We can be fairly sure of the following:
Telegraph, Times: Tory Express, Star: UKIP Mirror: Labour Guardian: probably Labour but will speak up for both Lib Dems and Greens Mail, Sun: Both stuck in the bind you've mentioned, Ormy. Tory or UKIP? Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
How is this a great poll? He is supposed to be romping this seat!
"Poundland Enouch" has very publicly said that he will resign if he loses in May. - Imagine UKIP back to focussing on painting trains in traditional colours, uniforms for taxi drivers and compulsary evening dress for theatres.
Whoever wins in May I will jump up and down cheering if it is the end for Nasty Nige!
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
Introduce PR and you have more of a chance of sensible policies based on reason rather than party politics.
Party politics is what ruins everything for me, I have met people from all parties who I have respected and admired but have met even more from all parties who don't really know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and it isn't good.
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
I think you and I will just have to accept that we have very different views of the political world Prague. No matter. All the best.
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
I think you and I will just have to accept that we have very different views of the political world Prague. No matter. All the best.
I think I accepted that a while ago. But as you say, no matter. Happy Easter.
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
Introduce PR and you have more of a chance of sensible policies based on reason rather than party politics.
Party politics is what ruins everything for me, I have met people from all parties who I have respected and admired but have met even more from all parties who don't really know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and it isn't good.
I don't know enough about how PR might work in the UK, but I really hope it would not mean the end of the system whereby an MP is closely tied to his or her local constituency. I can tell you that the Czechs really admire that, and wish they had it. Their politicians just do not feel the local pressure. The idea that I can email my MP (for @Addickted's info, it's Ed Davey, Lib Dem, Surbiton) and get a proper answer is for them almost Utopian democracy.
If Farage doesn't get elected he is going to miss the power, attention and control. Is the Priory clinic still going, he might need help.
I think Ed the duck and the Sheila from the Greens will be in the queue before Farage
Every election sees some of the losers being forced leave politics and to get back into the real world. I think you could well be right right about Ed and Sheila, they aren't looking too clever at the moment. The difference is though that they both have genuine parties behind them (one large, one small) that will be able to elect new leaders and pick up where they left off. The consequences for UKIP are a lot higher though as there's no hope of anyone being able to fill the vacuum that Faridge would leave. When the band leader is forced out of a one man band the only sound to be heard is that of cymbals crashing to the floor whist a sad trombone plays the classic wah wah wah wah refrain. I for one, can't wait!
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
Introduce PR and you have more of a chance of sensible policies based on reason rather than party politics.
Party politics is what ruins everything for me, I have met people from all parties who I have respected and admired but have met even more from all parties who don't really know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and it isn't good.
I don't know enough about how PR might work in the UK, but I really hope it would not mean the end of the system whereby an MP is closely tied to his or her local constituency. I can tell you that the Czechs really admire that, and wish they had it. Their politicians just do not feel the local pressure. The idea that I can email my MP (for @Addickted's info, it's Ed Davey, Lib Dem, Surbiton) and get a proper answer is for them almost Utopian democracy.
Well Ed Davey, Lib Dem MP for Surbiton is almost Utopian democracy himself, but the German system and the Northern Irish system seem to achieve proportional or close to proportional results while maintaining local candidates
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
Introduce PR and you have more of a chance of sensible policies based on reason rather than party politics.
Party politics is what ruins everything for me, I have met people from all parties who I have respected and admired but have met even more from all parties who don't really know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and it isn't good.
I don't know enough about how PR might work in the UK, but I really hope it would not mean the end of the system whereby an MP is closely tied to his or her local constituency. I can tell you that the Czechs really admire that, and wish they had it. Their politicians just do not feel the local pressure. The idea that I can email my MP (for @Addickted's info, it's Ed Davey, Lib Dem, Surbiton) and get a proper answer is for them almost Utopian democracy.
Ed Davey is your MP? you haven't mentioned that before. I think being able to have that local connection with your Surbiton MP from Prague is what keeps him honest
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
How is this a great poll? He is supposed to be romping this seat!
"Poundland Enouch" has very publicly said that he will resign if he loses in May. - Imagine UKIP back to focussing on painting trains in traditional colours, uniforms for taxi drivers and compulsary evening dress for theatres.
Whoever wins in May I will jump up and down cheering if it is the end for Nasty Nige!
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Under a FPTP system you only need to win by one vote, not a landslide.
So, with 5 weeks left its game on and a dead heat - don't reckon he can be unhappy with that.
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
Introduce PR and you have more of a chance of sensible policies based on reason rather than party politics.
Party politics is what ruins everything for me, I have met people from all parties who I have respected and admired but have met even more from all parties who don't really know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and it isn't good.
I don't know enough about how PR might work in the UK, but I really hope it would not mean the end of the system whereby an MP is closely tied to his or her local constituency. I can tell you that the Czechs really admire that, and wish they had it. Their politicians just do not feel the local pressure. The idea that I can email my MP (for @Addickted's info, it's Ed Davey, Lib Dem, Surbiton) and get a proper answer is for them almost Utopian democracy.
Well Ed Davey, Lib Dem MP for Surbiton is almost Utopian democracy himself, but the German system and the Northern Irish system seem to achieve proportional or close to proportional results while maintaining local candidates
Thanks for the links. I can't quite get my head around how either of them work, but that's a problem of my head at this time of night. All I would say is that people in other countries with PR are often suggesting first past the post has advantages. So it's obviously a complex issue. But for me the strong accountability at a local level is really important, and perhaps undervalued by Brits. I only appreciated it after I moved abroad and innocently asked "who is my local MP?"
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
Introduce PR and you have more of a chance of sensible policies based on reason rather than party politics.
Party politics is what ruins everything for me, I have met people from all parties who I have respected and admired but have met even more from all parties who don't really know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and it isn't good.
I don't know enough about how PR might work in the UK, but I really hope it would not mean the end of the system whereby an MP is closely tied to his or her local constituency. I can tell you that the Czechs really admire that, and wish they had it. Their politicians just do not feel the local pressure. The idea that I can email my MP (for @Addickted's info, it's Ed Davey, Lib Dem, Surbiton) and get a proper answer is for them almost Utopian democracy.
Well Ed Davey, Lib Dem MP for Surbiton is almost Utopian democracy himself, but the German system and the Northern Irish system seem to achieve proportional or close to proportional results while maintaining local candidates
Thanks for the links. I can't quite get my head around how either of them work, but that's a problem of my head at this time of night. All I would say is that people in other countries with PR are often suggesting first past the post has advantages. So it's obviously a complex issue. But for me the strong accountability at a local level is really important, and perhaps undervalued by Brits. I only appreciated it after I moved abroad and innocently asked "who is my local MP?"
As @LargeAddick memorably said, Viktoria Plzen is an east European porno star, and Surbiton just isn't the kind of place to vote such a person in. Genghis Khan (aka Richard Tracey, a spectacularly bad Sports minister) lost the seat by 56 votes in 1997.
And that's probably a lot more than most of you want to know about Surbiton:-)
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
.... Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
Or finding both main parties there (with Lib Dems occupying the tiniest sliver of ground between them) and considering them all a big yawn.
I don't read the Indy much, but I feel that if it was a German paper it would have no trouble getting behind Merkel's CDU, which is currently comfortably in power, albeit with coalition support, which is normal in Germany. Now, the Tories think they are so far to the right of CDU that left their bloc in the European parliament (utterly crass in my opinion, but tells you how they see themselves). Whereas Milliband is trying his best to edge left of where Blair took Labour but without attracting too much attention from Trevor Kavanagh (who seems to think he runs the country). I really don't think there is a centre ground in British politics, and I don't think the electorate knows how to create one, unfortunately.
Introduce PR and you have more of a chance of sensible policies based on reason rather than party politics.
Party politics is what ruins everything for me, I have met people from all parties who I have respected and admired but have met even more from all parties who don't really know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and it isn't good.
I don't know enough about how PR might work in the UK, but I really hope it would not mean the end of the system whereby an MP is closely tied to his or her local constituency. I can tell you that the Czechs really admire that, and wish they had it. Their politicians just do not feel the local pressure. The idea that I can email my MP (for @Addickted's info, it's Ed Davey, Lib Dem, Surbiton) and get a proper answer is for them almost Utopian democracy.
Well Ed Davey, Lib Dem MP for Surbiton is almost Utopian democracy himself, but the German system and the Northern Irish system seem to achieve proportional or close to proportional results while maintaining local candidates
Thanks for the links. I can't quite get my head around how either of them work, but that's a problem of my head at this time of night. All I would say is that people in other countries with PR are often suggesting first past the post has advantages. So it's obviously a complex issue. But for me the strong accountability at a local level is really important, and perhaps undervalued by Brits. I only appreciated it after I moved abroad and innocently asked "who is my local MP?"
My rough understanding of the German system is they have two votes - one for local candidates and one for parties. The vote for parties results in a number of seats for each party, of which the winners in the 'local candidates elections' are included. End result is a parliament with proportional representation but many of whom are locally elected.
Northern Irish system is complicated in how the counting is done but very simple to vote. Basically, you put a number 1 to your first choice, a number 2 to your second choice (ie if you can't have your first choice), a number 3 to your third choice and so on. It's like the Alternative Vote but with multiple MPs per constituency, so it's more proportional and less vulnerable to tactical voting.
Mail on Sunday claiming that UKIP have suppressed their own poll showing Farage behind in Thanet.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
That's still a great poll for Farage - still got every chance of winning a tight three way contest.
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
How is this a great poll? He is supposed to be romping this seat!
"Poundland Enouch" has very publicly said that he will resign if he loses in May. - Imagine UKIP back to focussing on painting trains in traditional colours, uniforms for taxi drivers and compulsary evening dress for theatres.
Whoever wins in May I will jump up and down cheering if it is the end for Nasty Nige!
Comments
So much information. So Much mis information.
It always astounds me how we can all watch a game and come up with so many different views. But that's nothing compared to politics.
So many intelligent people who interpret the same facts in totally opposite ways. Fascinating.
; )
I will concede that talking about the deficit being halved as a % of GDP is a nonsense and why there are claims and counter claims of something that actually mean nothing. It might be factually correct that borrowing has been halved as a % of GDP, but borrowing should be only looked at in absolute numbers. It's like the difference between knowing how much interest you have to pay on your credit card and what percentage it is of your salary. Just because your salary goes up and it becomes a smaller percentage of salary doesn't mean you are paying less interest. The UK GDP is going up so Osborne is able to claim a reduction in borrowings as a percentage of GDP while actual cash borrowings are going up.
Personally I think the Tories are using the deficit reduction as a screen for accelerating their policy of reducing public spending so releasing more money for private investment and growth of the economy. I would support a policy that reduced the size of the public sector but allowed borrowing for investing in better public sector services. My criticism of Labour is not so much that they spent too much, rather they had to borrow for the wrong reasons, creating an over-bloated public sector that needed more money just to run it.
Tory 31%, UKIP 30%, Lab 29%
The Mail are getting panicked now - they helped create UKIP but now they could easily drive the Tories from office and let Labour back in.
We can be fairly sure of the following:
Telegraph, Times: Tory
Express, Star: UKIP
Mirror: Labour
Guardian: probably Labour but will speak up for both Lib Dems and Greens
Mail, Sun: Both stuck in the bind you've mentioned, Ormy. Tory or UKIP?
Indy: trying to go for the centre ground, and not finding enough there to go for.
"Poundland Enouch" has very publicly said that he will resign if he loses in May. - Imagine UKIP back to focussing on painting trains in traditional colours, uniforms for taxi drivers and compulsary evening dress for theatres.
Whoever wins in May I will jump up and down cheering if it is the end for Nasty Nige!
Party politics is what ruins everything for me, I have met people from all parties who I have respected and admired but have met even more from all parties who don't really know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and it isn't good.
No matter. All the best.
Question One: (Degree of difficulty one million)
Who is (PragueAddicks mate) MP for Surbiton?
Is it:
a) Ed Davey?
b) Ghengis Khan?
c) Victoria Pizen?
And that's probably a lot more than most of you want to know about Surbiton:-)
Northern Irish system is complicated in how the counting is done but very simple to vote. Basically, you put a number 1 to your first choice, a number 2 to your second choice (ie if you can't have your first choice), a number 3 to your third choice and so on. It's like the Alternative Vote but with multiple MPs per constituency, so it's more proportional and less vulnerable to tactical voting.