No way should we recall Pietersen. I'd rather lose without him, Disloyal to his team mates. No thanks.
Really CE?
What has he actually done ?
It's too late in the evening. Google him.
It's a little bit like would I want Charlton to sign Ched Evans. No I wouldn't.
I've Googled him.
I re-iterate - what has he actually done wrong? He's sent some derogatory/stupid tweets. Wow, lets chop his head off shall we ?? Maybe lets bring Shane Warne and John Terry and half the premiership along at the same time, shall we ??!! Our one International class player and we want to bring him down at every opportunity. Shame.
No way should we recall Pietersen. I'd rather lose without him, Disloyal to his team mates. No thanks.
Really CE?
What has he actually done ?
It's too late in the evening. Google him.
It's a little bit like would I want Charlton to sign Ched Evans. No I wouldn't.
I've Googled him.
I re-iterate - what has he actually done wrong? He's sent some derogatory/stupid tweets. Wow, lets chop his head off shall we ?? Maybe lets bring Shane Warne and John Terry and half the premiership along at the same time, shall we ??!! Our one International class player and we want to bring him down at every opportunity. Shame.
Sent texts giving out team info and slating his teammates to the Saffers during a Test, for a start.
All of this anti-KP stuff amuses me greatly, apparently not only do you have to be a great player to play for England, but you have to be a bloody good bloke as well! Christ on a bike, whom do you think the Aussies would rather bowl out Moen Ali & Gary Ballance or KP?
It takes two to tango, and having read Graeme Swan's auto-biography, he comes across as a complete self centred twat. Imagine if KP had been caught drink driving with the excuse of 'My cat is stuck under the floorboards' - he would have been crucified, yet when Swan did it, there were a few laughs and it is all forgotten.
I think that the ECB missed a trick here, we are going to get flogged in the Ashes regardless, so they should have let KP have his moment in the sun, go down with the ship and then move onto pastures new.
To do it this way round, we are going to have the spectacle of KP flogging county attacks all over the park, whilst the England middle order is consistently dismantled by Johnson/Stark/Harris/Hazelwood.
Like I always say, it is far better to be on the train pissing out, than it is to be off the train trying to piss in!!
Comparing KP (who sent a text message to mates about someone) to a rapist is just a little OTT don't you think? Is that dressing room all nicey nicey now that KP isn't there? As mentioned broad, Swann and Bresnan weren't the nicest bunch. You listen to Vaughan, Gough, Bopara, Compton and Trott and they all say how well they got on with him. Should we ignore their comments just because you don't like the bloke?
None of us know what has happened over the years in the England dressing room. Cricket is a team game and it is vital to have a great team spirit. For whatever reason Pietersen effected that dynamic adversely. Pietersen the batsman I would have every time. Finally, flogging a second division County attack is a bit different to facing the likes of Starc, Johnson, Harris etc. We need to try and find the new Pietersen and develop our game to bring through more youngsters. A top class leg spinner and a fast bowler who can bowl at 150 KPH would be useful.
All I can say is that KP has to be one hell of a guy. To be able to create factions within dressing rooms be it in his home state of Natal and his native country, South Africa or here with Notts, Hants and Surrey and for his adopted country, England, is an achievement in itself.
It is time to "move on". Yes KP might aid our performances against NZ or Australia but would what he brings on the pitch this season ultimately undermine the long term aim? And even if he does perform to his very best do we seriously think that it will be enough to win us the Ashes?
We should have started the re-building process in the World Cup and then the West Indies. Having missed that opportunity I would hope that we will now start to look forwards.
Do you not think in a game like cricket, you need the 'characters' playing at the top to keep the interest going at youth level?
Andrew Strauss has got the personality of a ready salted crisp. He will no doubt be ridiculously knowledgeable and organised but like the rest of them, he hardly makes the English game glamorous.
No way should we recall Pietersen. I'd rather lose without him, Disloyal to his team mates. No thanks.
Really CE?
What has he actually done ?
It's too late in the evening. Google him.
It's a little bit like would I want Charlton to sign Ched Evans. No I wouldn't.
I've Googled him.
I re-iterate - what has he actually done wrong? He's sent some derogatory/stupid tweets. Wow, lets chop his head off shall we ?? Maybe lets bring Shane Warne and John Terry and half the premiership along at the same time, shall we ??!! Our one International class player and we want to bring him down at every opportunity. Shame.
Sent texts giving out team info and slating his teammates to the Saffers during a Test, for a start.
Do you not think in a game like cricket, you need the 'characters' playing at the top to keep the interest going at youth level?
Andrew Strauss has got the personality of a ready salted crisp. He will no doubt be ridiculously knowledgeable and organised but like the rest of them, he hardly makes the English game glamorous.
There is a difference between "character" and someone you can trust. And KP's well documented texts to his South African "mates" whilst representing this country is not the actions of someone who is trustworthy. And it only serves to undermine the team ethic.
Would Sangakara or Tendulkar ever do the same thing? No of course they wouldn't. Because they have the talent, character, honesty and class. KP is lacking in at least a couple of those.
No way should we recall Pietersen. I'd rather lose without him, Disloyal to his team mates. No thanks.
Really CE?
What has he actually done ?
It's too late in the evening. Google him.
It's a little bit like would I want Charlton to sign Ched Evans. No I wouldn't.
I've Googled him.
I re-iterate - what has he actually done wrong? He's sent some derogatory/stupid tweets. Wow, lets chop his head off shall we ?? Maybe lets bring Shane Warne and John Terry and half the premiership along at the same time, shall we ??!! Our one International class player and we want to bring him down at every opportunity. Shame.
Sent texts giving out team info and slating his teammates to the Saffers during a Test, for a start.
Ahhh, ok. Almost as bad as Rape then.
It wasn't me that compared him to Ched Evans - I agree that it is a ridiculous comparison.
You asked what he'd actually done wrong, and I answered.
Ched Evans people shouldn't want anywhere near their club because he's scum, KP we shouldn't recall as I think his inclusion would adversely affect the team performance even if he got runs himself. Given that and his age, we're right to move on.
Cricket is a team game, but it's nowhere near as important a factor as football say, as it's ultimately much more about individual performances out in the middle, and in a home series where it's less claustrophobic, this is even more the case.
Team spirit and being a good bloke mean nothing if you can't score runs.
Cricket is a team game, but it's nowhere near as important a factor as football say, as it's ultimately much more about individual performances out in the middle, and in a home series where it's less claustrophobic, this is even more the case.
Team spirit and being a good bloke mean nothing if you can't score runs.
But scoring runs is made even harder if you are a newcomer to the England team and you are being slagged off by a team mate:
Kevin Pietersen rattled off potshots at several former England team-mates in his recent autobiography but one of his targets had a right to feel more wronged than most. James Taylor only played once alongside Pietersen - and they put on 147 runs together - but that didn't stop Pietersen from recording his reservations about the diminutive Nottinghamshire batsman.
Pietersen described Taylor as more suited to being a jockey like his father, though he has denied criticising Taylor's ability while in the England dressing room.
I feel that Strauss has put his foot right in it in his first day in the job ! As mentioned before, how is he going to look if KP makes tons of runs, Cook gets eff all against NZ and Aus - all of which are very likely. The media and the public are going to slaughter him !! I don't care if the guy is a knob, not a team or squad-player - the bare fact is that he *would* have scored more runs than whoever plays instead of him.Full stop.
I feel that Strauss has put his foot right in it in his first day in the job ! As mentioned before, how is he going to look if KP makes tons of runs, Cook gets eff all against NZ and Aus - all of which are very likely. The media and the public are going to slaughter him !! I don't care if the guy is a knob, not a team or squad-player - the bare fact is that he *would* have scored more runs than whoever plays instead of him.Full stop.
Firstly I don't think that is guaranteed - Balance was his replacement and has scored well in Tests.
Secondly, if any extra runs KP gets are offset because of other players doing worse due to a poor team spirit then it's a bad thing for him to be there.
I feel that Strauss has put his foot right in it in his first day in the job ! As mentioned before, how is he going to look if KP makes tons of runs, Cook gets eff all against NZ and Aus - all of which are very likely. The media and the public are going to slaughter him !! I don't care if the guy is a knob, not a team or squad-player - the bare fact is that he *would* have scored more runs than whoever plays instead of him.Full stop.
Firstly I don't think that is guaranteed - Balance was his replacement and has scored well in Tests.
Secondly, if any extra runs KP gets are offset because of other players doing worse due to a poor team spirit then it's a bad thing for him to be there.
Ballance was his direct replacement, however, he wouldn't have been dropped to make way for KP - they would/should have gone with Ballance,KP,Bell and Root as 3,4,5 and 6 IMO.
Id imagine footballers have got frostier relationships with team mates and thats a lot more of team game, where 'squad harmony' is a greater factor.
Its a game of cricket, pick your best players and get on with it.
I think there is a difference though. Football is a game of 90 minutes. You don't have to sit in the same changing rooms, eat at the same table or even room with a guy for four or five days at a time. Or on tour for three or four months, It's a lot easier to walk away from that situation in football. Meet up for two or three days and forget about them.
Playing for England also isn't some sort of IPL franchise where fellow players know that they only have to put up with him for a few weeks.
It seems to me as if KP doesn't actually have an identity and is striving to prove himself better not just as a player but also as a person wherever he goes. To text the very people who have resented him for choosing to leave his homeland just to expose his own team secrets and call his captain a XXXX smacks to me of someone who is trying to ingratiate himself, almost apologetically, for the circumstances he finds himself in.
Fiery ? .. a nickname given to Fred Trueman that Boycott hijacked when he was trying to make a name for himself .. just as 'the corridor of uncertainty' is a Benaudism nicked by Boycott .. Boycott .. the great 'nicker' .. ((:>)
KP is still a terrific batsman, though hammering Leicester who haven't won a game since God was a boy is not a true yardstick of his real ability. BUT, Pietersen has burnt far too many bridges and insulted and alienated far too many people who still have a lot of power and influence in the game to be considered for a recall, as sad as that is for the English game and winning prospects. He would be a VERY disruptive influence to the team. We all know that sportsmen have big egos and can be very unforgiving of teammates or opponents who are felt to have insulted or belittled them, let alone made a lot more money and are far more popular than them
Hey everybody. I fully accept that the Ched Evans analogy wasn't the best.
It was gone midnight and The_President asked why I didn't want Pietersen back.
I said he was disloyal & Mr P asked, what he had done.
I said it was too late (I was very tired) & he should google him and it was a BIT LIKE, WOULD I WANT CHARLTON TO SIGN CHED EVANS, NO I WOULDN'T.
What I meant was there are certain characters I wouldn't want in my team.
For Charlton I didn't want Evans, Hughes, Barton, Muscat etc. I simply meant the type of character, not any specific offence.
Yes, I love characters, yes I love them a bit OTT. Give me Freddie Flintoff every time.
Yes Pietersen is a character, but a good character, you want in the team ?
He's upset many of the teams he's played in.
PS I was watching The Bumble (David LLoyd) programme onn Sky Sports.
On his England debut in 1974 V India, he was 46 no at lunch. He had a pint of lager and got out soon after.
Later on in the series, he was doing well & Farookh Engineer the wicketkeeper for India and his Lancashire team mate, was urging him on and on. He scored 214 no. Can't imagine either happening these days.
Comments
I re-iterate - what has he actually done wrong? He's sent some derogatory/stupid tweets. Wow, lets chop his head off shall we ?? Maybe lets bring Shane Warne and John Terry and half the premiership along at the same time, shall we ??!!
Our one International class player and we want to bring him down at every opportunity.
Shame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Pietersen
Stupid Decision if true, not to even leave the door open, even if his triple is against a poor side.
I'm sure the Aussies would be more fearful with him in the team. Spite Nose and Face come to mind.
"Look to the future etc etc." Strauss will saying, masking the truth that a few of the senior players don't like him.
It takes two to tango, and having read Graeme Swan's auto-biography, he comes across as a complete self centred twat. Imagine if KP had been caught drink driving with the excuse of 'My cat is stuck under the floorboards' - he would have been crucified, yet when Swan did it, there were a few laughs and it is all forgotten.
I think that the ECB missed a trick here, we are going to get flogged in the Ashes regardless, so they should have let KP have his moment in the sun, go down with the ship and then move onto pastures new.
To do it this way round, we are going to have the spectacle of KP flogging county attacks all over the park, whilst the England middle order is consistently dismantled by Johnson/Stark/Harris/Hazelwood.
Like I always say, it is far better to be on the train pissing out, than it is to be off the train trying to piss in!!
Is that dressing room all nicey nicey now that KP isn't there? As mentioned broad, Swann and Bresnan weren't the nicest bunch.
You listen to Vaughan, Gough, Bopara, Compton and Trott and they all say how well they got on with him. Should we ignore their comments just because you don't like the bloke?
Although I would be a lot more behind KP's cause if Piers Morgan wasn't, the fat gooner mug.
It is time to "move on". Yes KP might aid our performances against NZ or Australia but would what he brings on the pitch this season ultimately undermine the long term aim? And even if he does perform to his very best do we seriously think that it will be enough to win us the Ashes?
We should have started the re-building process in the World Cup and then the West Indies. Having missed that opportunity I would hope that we will now start to look forwards.
Andrew Strauss has got the personality of a ready salted crisp. He will no doubt be ridiculously knowledgeable and organised but like the rest of them, he hardly makes the English game glamorous.
Would Sangakara or Tendulkar ever do the same thing? No of course they wouldn't. Because they have the talent, character, honesty and class. KP is lacking in at least a couple of those.
You asked what he'd actually done wrong, and I answered.
Ched Evans people shouldn't want anywhere near their club because he's scum, KP we shouldn't recall as I think his inclusion would adversely affect the team performance even if he got runs himself. Given that and his age, we're right to move on.
Team spirit and being a good bloke mean nothing if you can't score runs.
Kevin Pietersen rattled off potshots at several former England team-mates in his recent autobiography but one of his targets had a right to feel more wronged than most. James Taylor only played once alongside Pietersen - and they put on 147 runs together - but that didn't stop Pietersen from recording his reservations about the diminutive Nottinghamshire batsman.
Pietersen described Taylor as more suited to being a jockey like his father, though he has denied criticising Taylor's ability while in the England dressing room.
As mentioned before, how is he going to look if KP makes tons of runs, Cook gets eff all against NZ and Aus - all of which are very likely. The media and the public are going to slaughter him !!
I don't care if the guy is a knob, not a team or squad-player - the bare fact is that he *would* have scored more runs than whoever plays instead of him.Full stop.
Secondly, if any extra runs KP gets are offset because of other players doing worse due to a poor team spirit then it's a bad thing for him to be there.
Id imagine footballers have got frostier relationships with team mates and thats a lot more of team game, where 'squad harmony' is a greater factor.
Its a game of cricket, pick your best players and get on with it.
Not like he has been knocking the ball all round the park for months now, making an irresistible case for inclusion.
'Graves later told the Daily Telegraph that the selectors "can't ignore" Pietersen if he "scores a lot of runs" for a county side.
"Forget personalities," said Graves. "Selectors pick the best players in form, taking wickets and scoring runs. That is their job."
Playing for England also isn't some sort of IPL franchise where fellow players know that they only have to put up with him for a few weeks.
It seems to me as if KP doesn't actually have an identity and is striving to prove himself better not just as a player but also as a person wherever he goes. To text the very people who have resented him for choosing to leave his homeland just to expose his own team secrets and call his captain a XXXX smacks to me of someone who is trying to ingratiate himself, almost apologetically, for the circumstances he finds himself in.
BUT, Pietersen has burnt far too many bridges and insulted and alienated far too many people who still have a lot of power and influence in the game to be considered for a recall, as sad as that is for the English game and winning prospects. He would be a VERY disruptive influence to the team.
We all know that sportsmen have big egos and can be very unforgiving of teammates or opponents who are felt to have insulted or belittled them, let alone made a lot more money and are far more popular than them
It was gone midnight and The_President asked why I didn't want Pietersen back.
I said he was disloyal & Mr P asked, what he had done.
I said it was too late (I was very tired) & he should google him and it was a BIT LIKE, WOULD I WANT CHARLTON TO SIGN CHED EVANS, NO I WOULDN'T.
What I meant was there are certain characters I wouldn't want in my team.
For Charlton I didn't want Evans, Hughes, Barton, Muscat etc. I simply meant the type of character, not any specific offence.
Yes, I love characters, yes I love them a bit OTT. Give me Freddie Flintoff every time.
Yes Pietersen is a character, but a good character, you want in the team ?
He's upset many of the teams he's played in.
PS I was watching The Bumble (David LLoyd) programme onn Sky Sports.
On his England debut in 1974 V India, he was 46 no at lunch. He had a pint of lager and got out soon after.
Later on in the series, he was doing well & Farookh Engineer the wicketkeeper for India and his Lancashire team mate, was urging him on and on. He scored 214 no. Can't imagine either happening these days.