All 9 of those points in both links are nullified by the fact that those who want out of the EU would like the UK to join on the same basis of countries in EFTA or Switzerland, which more or less enjoy all the benefits in both articles in some way but obviously lose the benefit of being at the decision making table. Which begs the question, what major decision has the UK been able to influence in recent history? Has there been anything worthwhile the UK has managed to stop or change in the face of opposition from Germany and France?
All 9 of those points in both links are nullified by the fact that those who want out of the EU would like the UK to join on the same basis of countries in EFTA or Switzerland, which more or less enjoy all the benefits in both articles in some way but obviously lose the benefit of being at the decision making table. Which begs the question, what major decision has the UK been able to influence in recent history? Has there been anything worthwhile the UK has managed to stop or change in the face of opposition from Germany and France?
All 9 of those points in both links are nullified by the fact that those who want out of the EU would like the UK to join on the same basis of countries in EFTA or Switzerland, which more or less enjoy all the benefits in both articles in some way but obviously lose the benefit of being at the decision making table. Which begs the question, what major decision has the UK been able to influence in recent history? Has there been anything worthwhile the UK has managed to stop or change in the face of opposition from Germany and France?
I'm going to take my on-line life in my hands here and challenge @Dippenhall :-)
. Who will speak for the consumers who will enjoy a lower cost of living (8%?) if they didn't have to buy imported and EU goods at prices inflated by tariffs.
May I ever so respectfully enquire about your source for this claim? Could you identify the type of goods where we are paying these inflated prices? The thing is that after many years of access to retail in Germany I can't think of any directly comparable goods which are more expensive in Germany. So which goods would be tarrifed here but not in Germany, as a result of being in the EU?
And what about these same goods in Switzerland and Norway? Cheaper than Germany?
8%? That may be your dodgy dossier moment, matey :-))))
I'm going to take my on-line life in my hands here and challenge @Dippenhall :-)
. Who will speak for the consumers who will enjoy a lower cost of living (8%?) if they didn't have to buy imported and EU goods at prices inflated by tariffs.
May I ever so respectfully enquire about your source for this claim? Could you identify the type of goods where we are paying these inflated prices? The thing is that after many years of access to retail in Germany I can't think of any directly comparable goods which are more expensive in Germany. So which goods would be tarrifed here but not in Germany, as a result of being in the EU?
And what about these same goods in Switzerland and Norway? Cheaper than Germany?
8%? That may be your dodgy dossier moment, matey :-))))
I'm going to take my on-line life in my hands here and challenge @Dippenhall :-)
. Who will speak for the consumers who will enjoy a lower cost of living (8%?) if they didn't have to buy imported and EU goods at prices inflated by tariffs.
May I ever so respectfully enquire about your source for this claim? Could you identify the type of goods where we are paying these inflated prices? The thing is that after many years of access to retail in Germany I can't think of any directly comparable goods which are more expensive in Germany. So which goods would be tarrifed here but not in Germany, as a result of being in the EU?
And what about these same goods in Switzerland and Norway? Cheaper than Germany?
8%? That may be your dodgy dossier moment, matey :-))))
I'm afraid you are missing the point. All of the EU states pay over the top for BMW cars, not just the UK.
Cars we buy from outside the EU have a 10% tax (tariff) added. This allows BMW to add 10% to their prices and be competitive with imports.
Outside the EU we will not need to add 10% to an import, whether a BMW or a Lexus. We then get cheaper Lexus' and might get BMWs at the price they do in the US for BMW to be competitive in the UK.
But we might choose to impose a tariff to give an advantage to our Jaguar business. BMW will then press the EU to do a deal and reduce the EU 10% tariff in return for us reducing our tariff. Ergo we get cheaper BMWs whatever.
All the imported goods we consume suffer an EU tariff. Freed of compulsory EU tariffs, we can choose to not have any tariffs, so our imported goods are x% cheaper so reducing our cost of living by y%.
Y% will depend on how many EU tariffs we choose not to replicate.
I am still yet to see a clear explanation of what would happen to the millions of UK residents who, like me, live and work in EU countries, not to mention the millions of retired Brits living in and using their host country's health service. I realise this is not really an important consideration for people living in the UK, but I imagine this will actually be a pretty crucial aspect for the negotiations. Anyone with more knowledge than me know what is likely to happen to Brits abroad in the event of an EU exit?
I am still yet to see a clear explanation of what would happen to the millions of UK residents who, like me, live and work in EU countries, not to mention the millions of retired Brits living in and using their host country's health service. I realise this is not really an important consideration for people living in the UK, but I imagine this will actually be a pretty crucial aspect for the negotiations. Anyone with more knowledge than me know what is likely to happen to Brits abroad in the event of an EU exit?
Maybe you would have to apply for a residence visa, like those of us living in non-eu countries.
It's a proper ball ache to have to go through it every year, although the free AIDs test is fun....
I'm going to take my on-line life in my hands here and challenge @Dippenhall :-)
. Who will speak for the consumers who will enjoy a lower cost of living (8%?) if they didn't have to buy imported and EU goods at prices inflated by tariffs.
May I ever so respectfully enquire about your source for this claim? Could you identify the type of goods where we are paying these inflated prices? The thing is that after many years of access to retail in Germany I can't think of any directly comparable goods which are more expensive in Germany. So which goods would be tarrifed here but not in Germany, as a result of being in the EU?
And what about these same goods in Switzerland and Norway? Cheaper than Germany?
8%? That may be your dodgy dossier moment, matey :-))))
I'm going to take my on-line life in my hands here and challenge @Dippenhall :-)
. Who will speak for the consumers who will enjoy a lower cost of living (8%?) if they didn't have to buy imported and EU goods at prices inflated by tariffs.
May I ever so respectfully enquire about your source for this claim? Could you identify the type of goods where we are paying these inflated prices? The thing is that after many years of access to retail in Germany I can't think of any directly comparable goods which are more expensive in Germany. So which goods would be tarrifed here but not in Germany, as a result of being in the EU?
And what about these same goods in Switzerland and Norway? Cheaper than Germany?
8%? That may be your dodgy dossier moment, matey :-))))
I'm afraid you are missing the point. All of the EU states pay over the top for BMW cars, not just the UK.
Cars we buy from outside the EU have a 10% tax (tariff) added. This allows BMW to add 10% to their prices and be competitive with imports.
Outside the EU we will not need to add 10% to an import, whether a BMW or a Lexus. We then get cheaper Lexus' and might get BMWs at the price they do in the US for BMW to be competitive in the UK.
But we might choose to impose a tariff to give an advantage to our Jaguar business. BMW will then press the EU to do a deal and reduce the EU 10% tariff in return for us reducing our tariff. Ergo we get cheaper BMWs whatever.
All the imported goods we consume suffer an EU tariff. Freed of compulsory EU tariffs, we can choose to not have any tariffs, so our imported goods are x% cheaper so reducing our cost of living by y%.
Y% will depend on how many EU tariffs we choose not to replicate.
Do you really think goods will be reduced in price or do not think that maybe importers and manufacturers will take any reduction in tariffs as an opportunity to increase their profit margins? May be prices will level out but they will level out upwards as per normal.
I'm going to take my on-line life in my hands here and challenge @Dippenhall :-)
. Who will speak for the consumers who will enjoy a lower cost of living (8%?) if they didn't have to buy imported and EU goods at prices inflated by tariffs.
May I ever so respectfully enquire about your source for this claim? Could you identify the type of goods where we are paying these inflated prices? The thing is that after many years of access to retail in Germany I can't think of any directly comparable goods which are more expensive in Germany. So which goods would be tarrifed here but not in Germany, as a result of being in the EU?
And what about these same goods in Switzerland and Norway? Cheaper than Germany?
8%? That may be your dodgy dossier moment, matey :-))))
I'm going to take my on-line life in my hands here and challenge @Dippenhall :-)
. Who will speak for the consumers who will enjoy a lower cost of living (8%?) if they didn't have to buy imported and EU goods at prices inflated by tariffs.
May I ever so respectfully enquire about your source for this claim? Could you identify the type of goods where we are paying these inflated prices? The thing is that after many years of access to retail in Germany I can't think of any directly comparable goods which are more expensive in Germany. So which goods would be tarrifed here but not in Germany, as a result of being in the EU?
And what about these same goods in Switzerland and Norway? Cheaper than Germany?
8%? That may be your dodgy dossier moment, matey :-))))
I'm afraid you are missing the point. All of the EU states pay over the top for BMW cars, not just the UK.
Cars we buy from outside the EU have a 10% tax (tariff) added. This allows BMW to add 10% to their prices and be competitive with imports.
Outside the EU we will not need to add 10% to an import, whether a BMW or a Lexus. We then get cheaper Lexus' and might get BMWs at the price they do in the US for BMW to be competitive in the UK.
But we might choose to impose a tariff to give an advantage to our Jaguar business. BMW will then press the EU to do a deal and reduce the EU 10% tariff in return for us reducing our tariff. Ergo we get cheaper BMWs whatever.
All the imported goods we consume suffer an EU tariff. Freed of compulsory EU tariffs, we can choose to not have any tariffs, so our imported goods are x% cheaper so reducing our cost of living by y%.
Y% will depend on how many EU tariffs we choose not to replicate.
"It’s interesting, Michael, since owning a Lexus, it’s amazing the number of Lexi you see around. Because that’s the plural."
Just a quick response for now , as your post deserves a more thorough consideration.
"our" Jaguar? Really?? Surely you would have been better off writing "our" Toyota, Nissan, or Honda,, at least those foreign owned plants are doing some volume. Otherwise they are as much "ours" as Simon Makienok. Albeit more reliable.
I am still yet to see a clear explanation of what would happen to the millions of UK residents who, like me, live and work in EU countries, not to mention the millions of retired Brits living in and using their host country's health service. I realise this is not really an important consideration for people living in the UK, but I imagine this will actually be a pretty crucial aspect for the negotiations. Anyone with more knowledge than me know what is likely to happen to Brits abroad in the event of an EU exit?
You won't get such an explanation from our Govt., that's for sure.
I will be Ok, because I am married to a Czech citizen. However I will probably apply for dual Citizenship in order to preserve my EU and Schengen status. Otherwise, as Stu says, expect the same status as someone from Morocco. I would worry for all those older Brits who planned retirement in Spain or France. Do you think after the 2-3 years of wrangling the Brits have put them through, that these other countries will continue to treat us like friends and neighbors? Because after all, the status of their hardworking compatriots in London will have suddenly changed for the worse too.
What about your voting rights? Are you sure you are up to date with them? It's another little trick this government is playing. Almost alone in the EU, a British citizen does not have an automatic right to vote just because he is a citizen.. If you are deemed not to have lived in the UK for 15 years or more you lose the right to vote. No matter if you have family here, pay UK tax, have an NI number, a U.K. bank account. However there are ways round it. Anyone affected by this and wanting advice, mail me privately.
That article quotes two reports. One by Jon Moynihan, an ex Tory MP and one of the senior leaders of the campaign for the UK's exit from Europe, and one by S&P.
Any reasonable person would conclude only one of those reports has any credibility. And that report backs up what I was saying about the impact of the UK's exit from the EU 100%.
Do you really think goods will be reduced in price or do not think that maybe importers and manufacturers will take any reduction in tariffs as an opportunity to increase their profit margins? May be prices will level out but they will level out upwards as per normal.
Profit margins are mostly increased by selling more products, not selling them at a higher price, because markets dictate prices, not sellers. A tariff is a tax paid by the exporter to the EU so the exporter has to recoup that cost in the price he sells to the importer. If the exporter doesn't have to pay a 10% tax he is more likely to sell at a lower price to increase sales than selling at the old price to make a higher margin on the same volumes.
The EU tariffs are designed to keep prices high for its internal market, because the domestic EU market is normally the largest market for the goods made within the EU That's why the EU is anti-competitive. The motive for expanding the EU is to have a wider domestic market within which to sell overpriced goods to its own consumers.
If you are a country struggling to export in volume, you welcome the opportunity to suddenly massively increase the size of your domestic market by joining the EU. We now can buy Polish sausage everywhere with Poland in the EU. Before hand we didn't see much Polish sausage because not many Poles but also because of the costs of exporting and bearing tariffs for Polish producers. Outside of the EU we will still get Polish sausages at the same or lower prices depending on whether we impose tariffs.
The EU only has to make trade deals because it needs to get a quid pro quo from countries the EU exports to who retaliate by putting tariffs on EU goods imported. The UK on its own is a much smaller player than the EU and will not encounter the problems encountered by the EU as a large trading block whose tariffs can have a big impact on other large trading blocks.
Get rid of the EU and the UK controls where it sets tariffs and where it can export without being subject to retaliatory tariffs and also to countries where there will be a tariff on EU goods but not UK goods.
The nonsense about the disasters facing the UK having to negotiate trade deals makes one big assumption, that the UK wants to be as anti-competitive as the EU and rely on rigging its internal market to support the UK domestic producers of goods and services. More likely the UK will thrive as an exporter of its high value goods and services to a wider expanding emerging market outside of the EU.
Having to comply with EU regulations on safety and environmental standards even if we are outside the EU is another red herring. It's the same for every country that exports to the EU. We don't have any influence on US standards but still comply with their standards if we want to export to the US.
I may be completely stupid, but for the life of me i cannot see what there is to fear with the UK controlling how it trades with the rest of the world. The impression is given that the world consists of the EU and we will be cut adrift floating into outer space if we exit. Yes there will be winners and losers short term as we adjust our trading relationships and gain new competitive advantages, but that's better than all of us being losers long term.
So the only thing leaving the EU means is us having a smaller captive domestic market, it does not mean we cannot trade with the EU. The EU needs us more than we need the EU; it will be begging us not to impose tariffs on EU exports and offering reduced tariffs on our exports in return.
I am still yet to see a clear explanation of what would happen to the millions of UK residents who, like me, live and work in EU countries, not to mention the millions of retired Brits living in and using their host country's health service. I realise this is not really an important consideration for people living in the UK, but I imagine this will actually be a pretty crucial aspect for the negotiations. Anyone with more knowledge than me know what is likely to happen to Brits abroad in the event of an EU exit?
You won't get such an explanation from our Govt., that's for sure.
I will be Ok, because I am married to a Czech citizen. However I will probably apply for dual Citizenship in order to preserve my EU and Schengen status. Otherwise, as Stu says, expect the same status as someone from Morocco. I would worry for all those older Brits who planned retirement in Spain or France. Do you think after the 2-3 years of wrangling the Brits have put them through, that these other countries will continue to treat us like friends and neighbors? Because after all, the status of their hardworking compatriots in London will have suddenly changed for the worse too.
What about your voting rights? Are you sure you are up to date with them? It's another little trick this government is playing. Almost alone in the EU, a British citizen does not have an automatic right to vote just because he is a citizen.. If you are deemed not to have lived in the UK for 15 years or more you lose the right to vote. No matter if you have family here, pay UK tax, have an NI number, a U.K. bank account. However there are ways round it. Anyone affected by this and wanting advice, mail me privately.
Firstly, I doubt very much that will happen, I can't see us booting out current EU residents, I assume some form of agreement will be made, if we leave.
Secondly, I'm not sure anyone who has not lived in the UK for 15 should have the right to vote.
Just a quick response for now , as your post deserves a more thorough consideration.
"our" Jaguar? Really?? Surely you would have been better off writing "our" Toyota, Nissan, or Honda,, at least those foreign owned plants are doing some volume. Otherwise they are as much "ours" as Simon Makienok. Albeit more reliable.
The shareholder profits may leave the UK but it's the economic activity of producing the goods in the UK which is of value. Jaguar exports will benefit by not having to bear retaliatory tariffs imposed by other countries because Jaguar is an EU manufacturer. "Our" just means UK manufactured.
More sales of Jaguar cars will benefit people in the UK who work for Jaguar and supply parts to Jaguar.
If you want to participate in the profits you can buy some Tata shares,
Do you really think goods will be reduced in price or do not think that maybe importers and manufacturers will take any reduction in tariffs as an opportunity to increase their profit margins? May be prices will level out but they will level out upwards as per normal.
Profit margins are mostly increased by selling more products, not selling them at a higher price, because markets dictate prices, not sellers. A tariff is a tax paid by the exporter to the EU so the exporter has to recoup that cost in the price he sells to the importer. If the exporter doesn't have to pay a 10% tax he is more likely to sell at a lower price to increase sales than selling at the old price to make a higher margin on the same volumes.
The EU tariffs are designed to keep prices high for its internal market, because the domestic EU market is normally the largest market for the goods made within the EU That's why the EU is anti-competitive. The motive for expanding the EU is to have a wider domestic market within which to sell overpriced goods to its own consumers.
If you are a country struggling to export in volume, you welcome the opportunity to suddenly massively increase the size of your domestic market by joining the EU. We now can buy Polish sausage everywhere with Poland in the EU. Before hand we didn't see much Polish sausage because not many Poles but also because of the costs of exporting and bearing tariffs for Polish producers. Outside of the EU we will still get Polish sausages at the same or lower prices depending on whether we impose tariffs.
The EU only has to make trade deals because it needs to get a quid pro quo from countries the EU exports to who retaliate by putting tariffs on EU goods imported. The UK on its own is a much smaller player than the EU and will not encounter the problems encountered by the EU as a large trading block whose tariffs can have a big impact on other large trading blocks.
Get rid of the EU and the UK controls where it sets tariffs and where it can export without being subject to retaliatory tariffs and also to countries where there will be a tariff on EU goods but not UK goods.
The nonsense about the disasters facing the UK having to negotiate trade deals makes one big assumption, that the UK wants to be as anti-competitive as the EU and rely on rigging its internal market to support the UK domestic producers of goods and services. More likely the UK will thrive as an exporter of its high value goods and services to a wider expanding emerging market outside of the EU.
Having to comply with EU regulations on safety and environmental standards even if we are outside the EU is another red herring. It's the same for every country that exports to the EU. We don't have any influence on US standards but still comply with their standards if we want to export to the US.
I may be completely stupid, but for the life of me i cannot see what there is to fear with the UK controlling how it trades with the rest of the world. The impression is given that the world consists of the EU and we will be cut adrift floating into outer space if we exit. Yes there will be winners and losers short term as we adjust our trading relationships and gain new competitive advantages, but that's better than all of us being losers long term.
So the only thing leaving the EU means is us having a smaller captive domestic market, it does not mean we cannot trade with the EU. The EU needs us more than we need the EU; it will be begging us not to impose tariffs on EU exports and offering reduced tariffs on our exports in return.
Unfortunately what you say in theory is correct but company's form, in effect, cartels. Gas, oil, steel, etc. Even the sausage meat suppliers will set a price that the market will pay. Lower taxes by 10%, BMW will give £XX off but it will not be 10%. They will cite that the raw material and production costs are now X% above pre tariff price. I don't actually believe there should be tariffs on trade, seems a tad counter to trading but if that's how the rest of the world want to play I guess that's the rules we have to play with.
I'm not suggesting that the following is reason enough not to vote for a Brexit but I think it is a major consideration.
The U.K. Has been integral to the EU for a very long time. Many of our laws,policies and regulations are directly linked. The EU is interwoven into the fabric of British business and life.
Should the UK vote to leave the EU it will take years and years to extricate ourselves and be an expensive and complicated process. Years of re negotiating tariffs and treaties. Process of how we interact with our former partners.
It will be a nightmare and business will suffer. At the end much will remain the same but the UK will be outside and have no influence of what happens going forward. We will just be forced to go along with it.
There are much stronger arguments for remaining a member but a Brexit will not be a picnic.
I'm not suggesting that the following is reason enough not to vote for a Brexit but I think it is a major consideration.
The U.K. Has been integral to the EU for a very long time. Many of our laws,policies and regulations are directly linked. The EU is interwoven into the fabric of British business and life.
Should the UK vote to leave the EU it will take years and years to extricate ourselves and be an expensive and complicated process. Years of re negotiating tariffs and treaties. Process of how we interact with our former partners.
It will be a nightmare and business will suffer. At the end much will remain the same but the UK will be outside and have no influence of what happens going forward. We will just be forced to go along with it.
There are much stronger arguments for remaining a member but a Brexit will not be a picnic.
Dividing the USSR back into their independent states was no picnic either but I think most people agree they prefer the current situation.
I am still yet to see a clear explanation of what would happen to the millions of UK residents who, like me, live and work in EU countries, not to mention the millions of retired Brits living in and using their host country's health service. I realise this is not really an important consideration for people living in the UK, but I imagine this will actually be a pretty crucial aspect for the negotiations. Anyone with more knowledge than me know what is likely to happen to Brits abroad in the event of an EU exit?
You won't get such an explanation from our Govt., that's for sure.
I will be Ok, because I am married to a Czech citizen. However I will probably apply for dual Citizenship in order to preserve my EU and Schengen status. Otherwise, as Stu says, expect the same status as someone from Morocco. I would worry for all those older Brits who planned retirement in Spain or France. Do you think after the 2-3 years of wrangling the Brits have put them through, that these other countries will continue to treat us like friends and neighbors? Because after all, the status of their hardworking compatriots in London will have suddenly changed for the worse too.
What about your voting rights? Are you sure you are up to date with them? It's another little trick this government is playing. Almost alone in the EU, a British citizen does not have an automatic right to vote just because he is a citizen.. If you are deemed not to have lived in the UK for 15 years or more you lose the right to vote. No matter if you have family here, pay UK tax, have an NI number, a U.K. bank account. However there are ways round it. Anyone affected by this and wanting advice, mail me privately.
Firstly, I doubt very much that will happen, I can't see us booting out current EU residents, I assume some form of agreement will be made, if we leave.
Secondly, I'm not sure anyone who has not lived in the UK for 15 should have the right to vote.
I didn't suggest we will boot them out. Simply that foreigners on both sides of the split will find life a lot more difficult. And for retired people who never expected this, it will be particularly hard. I guess the French young people who work in London now, will reluctantly return to Lille or wherever, and be replaced by eager Syrians or others from outside the EU.
Your second point. I pay UK income tax. I've paid all my NHI, so will get a UK state pension. I own a property in London. I have a UK bank account. My 88 year old Mum is sitting across from me now as I'm drinking my coffee. I paid my nephews Uni fees. I listen to the Today programme every morning, PM every evening and watch BBC domestic now my satellite is working again. So I'm well up on UK politics and society. As a result of that I write to my MP more often than most people do. And get replies ( albeit Davey's replacement just regurgitates Central Office). I'm actively involved In a significant citizens campaign regarding misuse of taxpayers money.
And you say I should not have vote? Well you know what, **** ***
Belated . Nothing personal Stu, you are not the only on who holds that view. But it fecking winds me up
Just a quick response for now , as your post deserves a more thorough consideration.
"our" Jaguar? Really?? Surely you would have been better off writing "our" Toyota, Nissan, or Honda,, at least those foreign owned plants are doing some volume. Otherwise they are as much "ours" as Simon Makienok. Albeit more reliable.
The shareholder profits may leave the UK but it's the economic activity of producing the goods in the UK which is of value. Jaguar exports will benefit by not having to bear retaliatory tariffs imposed by other countries because Jaguar is an EU manufacturer. "Our" just means UK manufactured.
More sales of Jaguar cars will benefit people in the UK who work for Jaguar and supply parts to Jaguar.
If you want to participate in the profits you can buy some Tata shares,
So why are the Jap car companies I quoted so uneasy about Brexit? And you know they are, despite the recent misquote of the Nissan CEO.
I'm not suggesting that the following is reason enough not to vote for a Brexit but I think it is a major consideration.
The U.K. Has been integral to the EU for a very long time. Many of our laws,policies and regulations are directly linked. The EU is interwoven into the fabric of British business and life.
Should the UK vote to leave the EU it will take years and years to extricate ourselves and be an expensive and complicated process. Years of re negotiating tariffs and treaties. Process of how we interact with our former partners.
It will be a nightmare and business will suffer. At the end much will remain the same but the UK will be outside and have no influence of what happens going forward. We will just be forced to go along with it.
There are much stronger arguments for remaining a member but a Brexit will not be a picnic.
Dividing the USSR back into their independent states was no picnic either but I think most people agree they prefer the current situation.
Hardly the same. Casting off the yolk of tyrannical oppression would be worth it at any cost.
I'm not suggesting that the following is reason enough not to vote for a Brexit but I think it is a major consideration.
The U.K. Has been integral to the EU for a very long time. Many of our laws,policies and regulations are directly linked. The EU is interwoven into the fabric of British business and life.
Should the UK vote to leave the EU it will take years and years to extricate ourselves and be an expensive and complicated process. Years of re negotiating tariffs and treaties. Process of how we interact with our former partners.
It will be a nightmare and business will suffer. At the end much will remain the same but the UK will be outside and have no influence of what happens going forward. We will just be forced to go along with it.
There are much stronger arguments for remaining a member but a Brexit will not be a picnic.
Dividing the USSR back into their independent states was no picnic either but I think most people agree they prefer the current situation.
Wow. So many layers of "fail" in one sentence.
Putin has successfully persuaded his brainwashed public that the fall of the USSR was a Western plot, and he has promised them he will return Russia to its former glory. He has actually proposed a Eurasian EU, but some of the other countries werent so keen. Unfortunately for them Putin doesnt take no for an answer. Witness the Ukraine....Nor do his ambitions stop there. He is getting up to all sorts of shit in the Czech Republic and other former "vassal" states.
You should also note that the break up has not made Russin citizens more safe. All their terrorist atrocities have been blamed on people from Caucasus states. I would not be at all surprised to learn that such people, and not ISIS, brought down the Sharm jet.
Prague - I was more referring to the vassal states and areas like East Germany that are finally catching up on 50 years of progress lost whilst under Soviet occupation.
I was also specifically referring to SHG's issue that Brexit will involve a lot of paperwork/bureaucracy and yes in the short term a lot of people will have difficulty as their lives or livelihoods are changed completely.
Just a quick response for now , as your post deserves a more thorough consideration.
"our" Jaguar? Really?? Surely you would have been better off writing "our" Toyota, Nissan, or Honda,, at least those foreign owned plants are doing some volume. Otherwise they are as much "ours" as Simon Makienok. Albeit more reliable.
The shareholder profits may leave the UK but it's the economic activity of producing the goods in the UK which is of value. Jaguar exports will benefit by not having to bear retaliatory tariffs imposed by other countries because Jaguar is an EU manufacturer. "Our" just means UK manufactured.
More sales of Jaguar cars will benefit people in the UK who work for Jaguar and supply parts to Jaguar.
If you want to participate in the profits you can buy some Tata shares,
So why are the Jap car companies I quoted so uneasy about Brexit? And you know they are, despite the recent misquote of the Nissan CEO.
Because Japan relies on volume sales to the EU and the subsidies it gets by manufacturing in the EU. It has already optimised its range of export markets and can't afford to suffer a reduction in the size of an existing market. Only Japanese cars are bought by the Japanese so it has no domestic market to expand into.
It will have to export to the EU direct and pay the import tax to maintain volumes, or move production to another EU state. Why would it support action that leads to having to make one of these choices, of course it wants the UK to remain.
Yes we risk foreign car manufacturers pulling out of the UK and a loss of jobs, or we could pay the subsidy direct to the manufacturers rather than to the EU to pass it on for us. We also have the opportunity of using the skilled labour released from subsidised businesses to sustainable manufacturing businesses.
Just a quick response for now , as your post deserves a more thorough consideration.
"our" Jaguar? Really?? Surely you would have been better off writing "our" Toyota, Nissan, or Honda,, at least those foreign owned plants are doing some volume. Otherwise they are as much "ours" as Simon Makienok. Albeit more reliable.
The shareholder profits may leave the UK but it's the economic activity of producing the goods in the UK which is of value. Jaguar exports will benefit by not having to bear retaliatory tariffs imposed by other countries because Jaguar is an EU manufacturer. "Our" just means UK manufactured.
More sales of Jaguar cars will benefit people in the UK who work for Jaguar and supply parts to Jaguar.
If you want to participate in the profits you can buy some Tata shares,
So why are the Jap car companies I quoted so uneasy about Brexit? And you know they are, despite the recent misquote of the Nissan CEO.
Because Japan relies on volume sales to the EU and the subsidies it gets by manufacturing in the EU. It has already optimised its range of export markets and can't afford to suffer a reduction in the size of an existing market. Only Japanese cars are bought by the Japanese so it has no domestic market to expand into.
It will have to export to the EU direct and pay the import tax to maintain volumes, or move production to another EU state. Why would it support action that leads to having to make one of these choices, of course it wants the UK to remain.
Yes we risk foreign car manufacturers pulling out of the UK and a loss of jobs, or we could pay the subsidy direct to the manufacturers rather than to the EU to pass it on for us. We also have the opportunity of using the skilled labour released from subsidised businesses to sustainable manufacturing businesses.
Indeed. This is the one thing every single pro-EU argument I see assumes: that all things will remain equal upon Brexit. This is such a breathtakingly stupid assumption that I'm surprised people expressing any professed expertise in this are still falling over on this. Of course things will not be equal after Brexit, the floodgates will open for the UK to compete with other EU states for overseas investment. If an industry has invested millions or billions in infrastructure in the UK, what is more likely, it will spend billions transferring its capital to another country, meaning both the UK and the industry suffer huge losses, or it will cut a deal with the U.K. Government and both the UK and the industry profit?
Comments
. Who will speak for the consumers who will enjoy a lower cost of living (8%?) if they didn't have to buy imported and EU goods at prices inflated by tariffs.
May I ever so respectfully enquire about your source for this claim? Could you identify the type of goods where we are paying these inflated prices? The thing is that after many years of access to retail in Germany I can't think of any directly comparable goods which are more expensive in Germany. So which goods would be tarrifed here but not in Germany, as a result of being in the EU?
And what about these same goods in Switzerland and Norway? Cheaper than Germany?
8%? That may be your dodgy dossier moment, matey :-))))
Cars we buy from outside the EU have a 10% tax (tariff) added. This allows BMW to add 10% to their prices and be competitive with imports.
Outside the EU we will not need to add 10% to an import, whether a BMW or a Lexus. We then get cheaper Lexus' and might get BMWs at the price they do in the US for BMW to be competitive in the UK.
But we might choose to impose a tariff to give an advantage to our Jaguar business. BMW will then press the EU to do a deal and reduce the EU 10% tariff in return for us reducing our tariff. Ergo we get cheaper BMWs whatever.
All the imported goods we consume suffer an EU tariff. Freed of compulsory EU tariffs, we can choose to not have any tariffs, so our imported goods are x% cheaper so reducing our cost of living by y%.
Y% will depend on how many EU tariffs we choose not to replicate.
It's a proper ball ache to have to go through it every year, although the free AIDs test is fun....
May be prices will level out but they will level out upwards as per normal.
Just a quick response for now , as your post deserves a more thorough consideration.
"our" Jaguar? Really?? Surely you would have been better off writing "our" Toyota, Nissan, or Honda,, at least those foreign owned plants are doing some volume. Otherwise they are as much "ours" as Simon Makienok. Albeit more reliable.
I will be Ok, because I am married to a Czech citizen. However I will probably apply for dual Citizenship in order to preserve my EU and Schengen status. Otherwise, as Stu says, expect the same status as someone from Morocco. I would worry for all those older Brits who planned retirement in Spain or France. Do you think after the 2-3 years of wrangling the Brits have put them through, that these other countries will continue to treat us like friends and neighbors? Because after all, the status of their hardworking compatriots in London will have suddenly changed for the worse too.
What about your voting rights? Are you sure you are up to date with them? It's another little trick this government is playing. Almost alone in the EU, a British citizen does not have an automatic right to vote just because he is a citizen.. If you are deemed not to have lived in the UK for 15 years or more you lose the right to vote. No matter if you have family here, pay UK tax, have an NI number, a U.K. bank account. However there are ways round it. Anyone affected by this and wanting advice, mail me privately.
Any reasonable person would conclude only one of those reports has any credibility. And that report backs up what I was saying about the impact of the UK's exit from the EU 100%.
The EU tariffs are designed to keep prices high for its internal market, because the domestic EU market is normally the largest market for the goods made within the EU That's why the EU is anti-competitive. The motive for expanding the EU is to have a wider domestic market within which to sell overpriced goods to its own consumers.
If you are a country struggling to export in volume, you welcome the opportunity to suddenly massively increase the size of your domestic market by joining the EU. We now can buy Polish sausage everywhere with Poland in the EU. Before hand we didn't see much Polish sausage because not many Poles but also because of the costs of exporting and bearing tariffs for Polish producers. Outside of the EU we will still get Polish sausages at the same or lower prices depending on whether we impose tariffs.
The EU only has to make trade deals because it needs to get a quid pro quo from countries the EU exports to who retaliate by putting tariffs on EU goods imported. The UK on its own is a much smaller player than the EU and will not encounter the problems encountered by the EU as a large trading block whose tariffs can have a big impact on other large trading blocks.
Get rid of the EU and the UK controls where it sets tariffs and where it can export without being subject to retaliatory tariffs and also to countries where there will be a tariff on EU goods but not UK goods.
The nonsense about the disasters facing the UK having to negotiate trade deals makes one big assumption, that the UK wants to be as anti-competitive as the EU and rely on rigging its internal market to support the UK domestic producers of goods and services. More likely the UK will thrive as an exporter of its high value goods and services to a wider expanding emerging market outside of the EU.
Having to comply with EU regulations on safety and environmental standards even if we are outside the EU is another red herring. It's the same for every country that exports to the EU. We don't have any influence on US standards but still comply with their standards if we want to export to the US.
I may be completely stupid, but for the life of me i cannot see what there is to fear with the UK controlling how it trades with the rest of the world. The impression is given that the world consists of the EU and we will be cut adrift floating into outer space if we exit. Yes there will be winners and losers short term as we adjust our trading relationships and gain new competitive advantages, but that's better than all of us being losers long term.
So the only thing leaving the EU means is us having a smaller captive domestic market, it does not mean we cannot trade with the EU. The EU needs us more than we need the EU; it will be begging us not to impose tariffs on EU exports and offering reduced tariffs on our exports in return.
Secondly, I'm not sure anyone who has not lived in the UK for 15 should have the right to vote.
The shareholder profits may leave the UK but it's the economic activity of producing the goods in the UK which is of value. Jaguar exports will benefit by not having to bear retaliatory tariffs imposed by other countries because Jaguar is an EU manufacturer. "Our" just means UK manufactured.
More sales of Jaguar cars will benefit people in the UK who work for Jaguar and supply parts to Jaguar.
If you want to participate in the profits you can buy some Tata shares,
Lower taxes by 10%, BMW will give £XX off but it will not be 10%. They will cite that the raw material and production costs are now X% above pre tariff price.
I don't actually believe there should be tariffs on trade, seems a tad counter to trading but if that's how the rest of the world want to play I guess that's the rules we have to play with.
The U.K. Has been integral to the EU for a very long time. Many of our laws,policies and regulations are directly linked. The EU is interwoven into the fabric of British business and life.
Should the UK vote to leave the EU it will take years and years to extricate ourselves and be an expensive and complicated process. Years of re negotiating tariffs and treaties. Process of how we interact with our former partners.
It will be a nightmare and business will suffer. At the end much will remain the same but the UK will be outside and have no influence of what happens going forward. We will just be forced to go along with it.
There are much stronger arguments for remaining a member but a Brexit will not be a picnic.
Your second point. I pay UK income tax. I've paid all my NHI, so will get a UK state pension. I own a property in London. I have a UK bank account. My 88 year old Mum is sitting across from me now as I'm drinking my coffee. I paid my nephews Uni fees. I listen to the Today programme every morning, PM every evening and watch BBC domestic now my satellite is working again. So I'm well up on UK politics and society. As a result of that I write to my MP more often than most people do. And get replies ( albeit Davey's replacement just regurgitates Central Office). I'm actively involved In a significant citizens campaign regarding misuse of taxpayers money.
And you say I should not have vote? Well you know what, **** ***
Belated
Putin has successfully persuaded his brainwashed public that the fall of the USSR was a Western plot, and he has promised them he will return Russia to its former glory. He has actually proposed a Eurasian EU, but some of the other countries werent so keen. Unfortunately for them Putin doesnt take no for an answer. Witness the Ukraine....Nor do his ambitions stop there. He is getting up to all sorts of shit in the Czech Republic and other former "vassal" states.
You should also note that the break up has not made Russin citizens more safe. All their terrorist atrocities have been blamed on people from Caucasus states. I would not be at all surprised to learn that such people, and not ISIS, brought down the Sharm jet.
I was also specifically referring to SHG's issue that Brexit will involve a lot of paperwork/bureaucracy and yes in the short term a lot of people will have difficulty as their lives or livelihoods are changed completely.
It will have to export to the EU direct and pay the import tax to maintain volumes, or move production to another EU state. Why would it support action that leads to having to make one of these choices, of course it wants the UK to remain.
Yes we risk foreign car manufacturers pulling out of the UK and a loss of jobs, or we could pay the subsidy direct to the manufacturers rather than to the EU to pass it on for us. We also have the opportunity of using the skilled labour released from subsidised businesses to sustainable manufacturing businesses.