Why not Dartford? So it would connect with three lines, as opposed to one....
I work for MTR Crossrail, the firm which run the trains, and I asked the same question. The answer is that running through the central section is to a very tight timetable, so its important that trains arrive from the branches on time. It was thought that the risk of trains being delayed on Network Rail's unreliable infrastructure on the North Kent Line was to great to countenance. Any future extension east of Abbey Wood depends on new dedicated track being built.
At least the good people of Dartford and Gravesend etc will have an easy interchange at Abbey Wood, from where Crossrail trains will depart every 5 mins in the peak period.
Thanks for the answer.
I suppose none of us who use those lines will be remotely surprised, but it's not very encouraging.
And will Crossrail be part of the Oyster network? It may seem a silly question, but, you know, Heathrow Express....
Most definitely yes, including Heathrow. The Crossrail service will replace the existing Heathrow Connect.
Is Crossrail going to run into Heathrow? I didn't realise that.
Wondering if that will improve my travel options between Heathrow and Eltham, then.
Dare I say this, but shouldn't this thread be made members only given our near neighbours insistence that we enjoy looking at trains?
Do we care what they think about anything any more?
When I get round to it, on the Olympic stadium thread I'll report on what happened when the Orient Trust tried to 'reach out to" the so-called Lions Trust on the issue...
Why not Dartford? So it would connect with three lines, as opposed to one....
I work for MTR Crossrail, the firm which run the trains, and I asked the same question. The answer is that running through the central section is to a very tight timetable, so its important that trains arrive from the branches on time. It was thought that the risk of trains being delayed on Network Rail's unreliable infrastructure on the North Kent Line was to great to countenance. Any future extension east of Abbey Wood depends on new dedicated track being built.
At least the good people of Dartford and Gravesend etc will have an easy interchange at Abbey Wood, from where Crossrail trains will depart every 5 mins in the peak period.
Thanks for the answer.
I suppose none of us who use those lines will be remotely surprised, but it's not very encouraging.
And will Crossrail be part of the Oyster network? It may seem a silly question, but, you know, Heathrow Express....
Most definitely yes, including Heathrow. The Crossrail service will replace the existing Heathrow Connect.
Is Crossrail going to run into Heathrow? I didn't realise that.
Wondering if that will improve my travel options between Heathrow and Eltham, then.
Sounds like good news...
I guess if you get the bus to Woolwich, which will also have a Crossrail station.
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date. All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date. All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
Well, it will get finished eventually, however it could be possible it might be a privatised service imo. Which would be a real shame.
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date. All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
everything in this currently somewhat benighted country will be in a state of paralysis until fecking Brexit is finally sorted .. and we shouldn't hold our collective breaths for that to reach a conclusion
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date. All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
WTF has this entirely predictable fiasco got to do with Sadiq Khan?
You might as well blame Lee Bowyer for the fact Charlton are £50m in debt
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date. All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
WTF has this entirely predictable fiasco got to do with Sadiq Khan?
You might as well blame Lee Bowyer for the fact Charlton are £50m in debt
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date. All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
WTF has this entirely predictable fiasco got to do with Sadiq Khan?
You might as well blame Lee Bowyer for the fact Charlton are £50m in debt
little wonder that no fecker wants to buy out RolyPoly
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date. All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
WTF has this entirely predictable fiasco got to do with Sadiq Khan?
You might as well blame Lee Bowyer for the fact Charlton are £50m in debt
Trust is the issue I think.
But what has he got to do with the delay and overbudget? Absolutely sweet FA as far as I can see. This thing has been in the works since 1972 and they are bickering about whether Khan found out in July or August?
This much underrated blog covers the issue in more detail than you'd ever need and the name Sadiq Khan doesn't feature once.
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date. All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
WTF has this entirely predictable fiasco got to do with Sadiq Khan?
You might as well blame Lee Bowyer for the fact Charlton are £50m in debt
Trust is the issue I think.
But what has he got to do with the delay and overbudget? Absolutely sweet FA as far as I can see. This thing has been in the works since 1972 and they are bickering about whether Khan found out in July or August?
This much underrated blog covers the issue in more detail than you'd ever need and the name Sadiq Khan doesn't feature once.
Agreed, it's all rather silly, but I wonder why Khan is saying he wasn't told at the end of July, if he was? I'm guessing he was, so he may have brought this on himself unnecessarily.
If an MP lies to parliament they're in trouble aren't they ? Presumably, Khan is being judged in a similar vein?
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date. All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
WTF has this entirely predictable fiasco got to do with Sadiq Khan?
You might as well blame Lee Bowyer for the fact Charlton are £50m in debt
Trust is the issue I think.
But what has he got to do with the delay and overbudget? Absolutely sweet FA as far as I can see. This thing has been in the works since 1972 and they are bickering about whether Khan found out in July or August?
This much underrated blog covers the issue in more detail than you'd ever need and the name Sadiq Khan doesn't feature once.
Agreed, it's all rather silly, but I wonder why Khan is saying he wasn't told at the end of July, if he was? I'm guessing he was, so he may have brought this on himself unnecessarily.
If an MP lies to parliament they're in trouble aren't they ? Presumably, Khan is being judged in a similar vein?
Well yes, I can't disagree with that. I just can't see what he wishes to hide in temrs of his own involvement in the delay, seems to me its a catalogue of different issues which are way too technical for him to have any say in.
I see that he's got my "friend" Caroline Pidgeon on his case, so the truth will out...
I can see where this is all coming from. Terry Morgan insists he told Khan in July that it was no longer feasible for the line to open this month, but an actual date wasn't released until later.
Khan can rightly say that this is when it is definitely confirmed, as anything up to that point is conjecture, albeit very well informed.
This is all potato, potato...I think a delay was always inevitable, disappointingly for me as it would be a huge bonus, but I'm not overly excited about slating Khan for it.
The FT led with the story this morning. Here is their full report.
What is it with the UK and transport infrastructure projects? Who can we learn from? Possibly not Germany, suprisingly enough, as the new Berlin airport is a fiasco so colossal it would shame a Latin American country, and they also have problems with a major rail upgrade in Stuttgart.
So what about France? I keep being told that it's not fair to compare our miserable "high-speed" rail upgrades with the ever-expanding TGV network because France is a bigger and much emptier country; which up to a point is fair. However..the Paris RER network is basically Crossrail. There are now I think 4 different RER lines, and they were completed so long ago that the networkt now looks a bit long in the tooth. The technical challenge was surely no less in Paris - huge city, river running through it...
Ministers are poised to announce a fresh bailout for Crossrail as early as Monday as fears grow that the start date for the flagship London project will be pushed back even further.
Officials from the Department for Transport and Transport for London, who have been locked in emergency talks for months, were holding further negotiations on Sunday ahead of an imminent public announcement.
People close to the project believe the latest rescue plan — the third this year — will involve around £1bn of new funding. “Work is continuing between the government, mayor and TfL on finalising a financing package,” said a TFL spokesperson.
Former Labour MP Nick Raynsford is also expected to be appointed as Crossrail’s deputy chairman.
Later this week Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, is expected to set out various cuts to projects in the city to help fill the financial black hole left by Crossrail’s woes.
The capital should have been celebrating the opening of the east-west London railway, the biggest construction project in Europe, this week. But in August, Crossrail announced it would not begin operation until autumn 2019 at the earliest.
Even that now seems “wildly optimistic”, one source close to the project said, given the problems with signals, trains and stations. leading to “growing panic” among executives at TfL. A number of people close to the project now saying it may not be ready until late 2020.
Station construction has fallen behind schedule, with some, such as Bond Street, unlikely to be finished until the new year. This has delayed testing on the central section, which has now been delayed until next spring, said one person close to negotiations. The completion of trains and signalling may be delayed until well into 2020 because they need to be tested together once the infrastructure is complete.
“It’s the software development that is the issue,” said another person close to the project. “They need new software to go on the trains and they need to co-ordinate that with the three different signalling systems, and they need to test it fully.”
The project received an injection of £590m in July and a further £350m loan in October — which increased the total cost of the scheme to £15.8bn. But a further £1bn is now needed to address TfL’s “urgent cash flow problems,” said one person close to the operator.
KPMG, which has been advising on the project, is understood to have said earlier this autumn that £1.3bn was needed to plug the capital hole.
The cost overruns will put pressure on TfL, which is due to release its business plan this week. The combination of deep cuts to the government’s annual grant and a fall in passenger journeys — by 41m, or 1 per cent, in the year to the end of March — has already left TfL with an operating deficit of £1bn, causing difficulties for the London mayor Sadiq Khan, who has pledged to freeze fares.
Caroline Pidgeon, chair of the London assembly transport committee, said she was “really worried” about TfL’s budget. “Crossrail was going to be the knight in shining armour, delivering huge revenue in the first year to help balance the budget,” she said.
Ms Pidgeon predicted a swath of cuts in this week’s revised TfL business plan, such a reduction in London Underground’s budget and delays to new transport projects in the capital.
Mr Khan is under pressure over his failure to release documents that should reveal when he knew about the delays. A number of documents are set to be released this week which should confirm whether the mayor knew of the delays before August, when he announced the nine month delay.
The cost overruns and delays have already lead to the resignation of Sir Terry Morgan from his jobs as chairman of both Crossrail and the HS2 rail project, which he only joined in August.
The mayor’s office has been in early talks with Tony Meggs, a former BP executive who runs the Infrastructure and Projects Authority, to replace Sir Terry as Crossrail chair.
So perhaps both Sadiq Khan & Sir Terry Morgan were both telling the truth ? Morgan informed Khan via TFL, but Khan never received the warning(s), as TFL deleted them.
Comments
I wondered this and then I discovered Sepp Blatter has an aunt living in Abbey Wood.
Wondering if that will improve my travel options between Heathrow and Eltham, then.
Sounds like good news...
When I get round to it, on the Olympic stadium thread I'll report on what happened when the Orient Trust tried to 'reach out to" the so-called Lions Trust on the issue...
Sorry Richard, couldn't resist. I was joking................
Sorry, actually only one of them will be.
Wouldn't trust Khan as far as I could throw him.
Even I could have told him as far back as May that there was no way this was going to get anywhere near its proposed opening date.
All work at Farringdon appears to have stopped. In serious trouble if you ask me.
You might as well blame Lee Bowyer for the fact Charlton are £50m in debt
This much underrated blog covers the issue in more detail than you'd ever need and the name Sadiq Khan doesn't feature once.
I'm guessing he was, so he may have brought this on himself unnecessarily.
If an MP lies to parliament they're in trouble aren't they ?
Presumably, Khan is being judged in a similar vein?
I see that he's got my "friend" Caroline Pidgeon on his case, so the truth will out...
Khan can rightly say that this is when it is definitely confirmed, as anything up to that point is conjecture, albeit very well informed.
This is all potato, potato...I think a delay was always inevitable, disappointingly for me as it would be a huge bonus, but I'm not overly excited about slating Khan for it.
In associated news, Khan alleged to have 'misled financial markets' over the delay. The FCA will review the allegations.
Crossrail
Or
Spurs ground.
@bertpalmer any idea on how we can gage which one people think will be completed first
What is it with the UK and transport infrastructure projects? Who can we learn from? Possibly not Germany, suprisingly enough, as the new Berlin airport is a fiasco so colossal it would shame a Latin American country, and they also have problems with a major rail upgrade in Stuttgart.
So what about France? I keep being told that it's not fair to compare our miserable "high-speed" rail upgrades with the ever-expanding TGV network because France is a bigger and much emptier country; which up to a point is fair. However..the Paris RER network is basically Crossrail. There are now I think 4 different RER lines, and they were completed so long ago that the networkt now looks a bit long in the tooth. The technical challenge was surely no less in Paris - huge city, river running through it...
Ministers are poised to announce a fresh bailout for Crossrail as early as Monday as fears grow that the start date for the flagship London project will be pushed back even further.
Officials from the Department for Transport and Transport for London, who have been locked in emergency talks for months, were holding further negotiations on Sunday ahead of an imminent public announcement.
People close to the project believe the latest rescue plan — the third this year — will involve around £1bn of new funding. “Work is continuing between the government, mayor and TfL on finalising a financing package,” said a TFL spokesperson.
Former Labour MP Nick Raynsford is also expected to be appointed as Crossrail’s deputy chairman.
Later this week Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, is expected to set out various cuts to projects in the city to help fill the financial black hole left by Crossrail’s woes.
The capital should have been celebrating the opening of the east-west London railway, the biggest construction project in Europe, this week. But in August, Crossrail announced it would not begin operation until autumn 2019 at the earliest.
Even that now seems “wildly optimistic”, one source close to the project said, given the problems with signals, trains and stations. leading to “growing panic” among executives at TfL. A number of people close to the project now saying it may not be ready until late 2020.
Station construction has fallen behind schedule, with some, such as Bond Street, unlikely to be finished until the new year. This has delayed testing on the central section, which has now been delayed until next spring, said one person close to negotiations. The completion of trains and signalling may be delayed until well into 2020 because they need to be tested together once the infrastructure is complete.
“It’s the software development that is the issue,” said another person close to the project. “They need new software to go on the trains and they need to co-ordinate that with the three different signalling systems, and they need to test it fully.”
The project received an injection of £590m in July and a further £350m loan in October — which increased the total cost of the scheme to £15.8bn. But a further £1bn is now needed to address TfL’s “urgent cash flow problems,” said one person close to the operator.
KPMG, which has been advising on the project, is understood to have said earlier this autumn that £1.3bn was needed to plug the capital hole.
The cost overruns will put pressure on TfL, which is due to release its business plan this week. The combination of deep cuts to the government’s annual grant and a fall in passenger journeys — by 41m, or 1 per cent, in the year to the end of March — has already left TfL with an operating deficit of £1bn, causing difficulties for the London mayor Sadiq Khan, who has pledged to freeze fares.
Caroline Pidgeon, chair of the London assembly transport committee, said she was “really worried” about TfL’s budget. “Crossrail was going to be the knight in shining armour, delivering huge revenue in the first year to help balance the budget,” she said.
Ms Pidgeon predicted a swath of cuts in this week’s revised TfL business plan, such a reduction in London Underground’s budget and delays to new transport projects in the capital.
Mr Khan is under pressure over his failure to release documents that should reveal when he knew about the delays. A number of documents are set to be released this week which should confirm whether the mayor knew of the delays before August, when he announced the nine month delay.
The cost overruns and delays have already lead to the resignation of Sir Terry Morgan from his jobs as chairman of both Crossrail and the HS2 rail project, which he only joined in August.
The mayor’s office has been in early talks with Tony Meggs, a former BP executive who runs the Infrastructure and Projects Authority, to replace Sir Terry as Crossrail chair.
Crossrail, originally set to open last month, has been delayed past 2019.
Mr Khan complained he was not told of the delays until 29 August - two days before the public announcement.
But Sir Terry Morgan said weekly TfL reports produced to update the mayor on Crossrail's progress had been "routinely" altered by the body.
He told the London Assembly Transport Committee that the weekly briefings were "cleared" by TfL before reaching the mayor.
TfL said the briefings being sent to Mr Khan provided a "snapshot of the status of the project".
Sir Terry also reiterated that the mayor was told on 26 July that a 2018 opening was "no longer feasible".
Its leading up to the announcement of the project's delay, Sir Terry said: "I do not suffer from loss of memory."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46812443
Morgan informed Khan via TFL, but Khan never received the warning(s), as TFL deleted them.
Genuine question as I don't live in London and thus have not researched the TFL hierarchy.
EDIT: It appears from this that Khan is Chairman:
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/corporate-governance/board-members