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Crossrail
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Jesus, I never knew about this. 200 kms of new lines, 68 new stations, by 2030. Some of it due to open this year! That puts a few things in context, eh? After all, Crossrail isnt much more than a Paris RER, and how many of them are there already.? 4 or 5, and in service such a long time they look a bit shabby.Scratchingvalleycat said:
Interesting to find out how it compares with Paris and their Grand Express project for new metro lines.MrOneLung said:
Surely it is by continent - it was not referred as EU's biggest project.DRAddick said:On a positive note. Soon they won't be able to refer to it as Europe's biggest project (Unless they go by Continent of course) :-)3 -
Indeed, Prague.
Other European countries show Britain is always way behind in public transport investment.
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But as said previously, the problem is signal/control integration. I am sure there is an accountant somewhere that dines out on how much money he saved by ensuring Crossrail shared some lines instead of being completely seperate.
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London's Crossrail is expected to be fully operational in mid-2022 according to the project's developers.
Europe's largest transport scheme had been due to open in December 2018 but the central sections will not open until summer 2021 at the earliest.
Crossrail Ltd confirmed it planned to open the central of section between Paddington and Abbey Wood in summer 2021.
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fixed it for yousoapy_jones said:On a negative note. This country's government officals could not collectively shit in a bucket and get it right!
And shitting in a bucket is nothing to be sniffed at.
You were lucky. First 30 years of my life we had to dig our own latrines, in all weathers, usually with us bare hands, couldn't afford a spade. Shitting in a bucket woulda been a luxury...0 -
And this wasn’t considered or thought through earlier?Sark99 said:Rothko said:
Pretty much, different signalling system on the line between Paddinton and Reading, a different one to Heathrow, and a different one up to Shenfield, the systems all need to talk to each other, and a train from say Abbey Wood to Heathrow, would need to be able to communicate with three different systems to complete its journey and keep passengers safe.Hex said:
I seem to recall it's not the signalling on the Crossrail track that is a problem. Crossrail also uses or crosses non-Crossrail track and it is the integration of the various signalling and train control systems that is the issue along with very limited testing time each night.StigThundercock said:
Railway signalling must have got really really difficult in the last 5 years. There's permanent trouble all around Lewisham, according to southeastern; Branson had recurring issues all up the WCML for years; now Crossrail can't build em right from scratch on almost entirely new trackways.clive said:TfL have this morning revealed that Crossrail has been delayed yet further until autumn 2021. The previous hope was early 2021 though this is hardly a surprise given recent progress.
The delay is mainly due to signalling issues. Most stations are now complete or almost ready.
https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2020/01/06/crossrail-delayed-yet-further-to-autumn-2021/
Either that or all those cash guzzling frauds reckon that's the sort of plausible sounding bullshit they can trot out to mislead the gullible gravy train suckers at DoT and fob off us poor saps who have to fund the whole farago and use the runt of a so called service that's left.
The on board train software needs to translate the 3 different signal systems instantaneously as the train moves through the system which is part of the problem. Bearing in mind the timing of the service it is very difficult to run this train service with the driver in control.0 -
Different signalling systems are used across the different rail networks, which is a historic issue. If you want to run a train at high speed from one side of London to the other to do it via the traditional operating system would be impossible.Todds_right_hook said:
And this wasn’t considered or thought through earlier?Sark99 said:Rothko said:
Pretty much, different signalling system on the line between Paddinton and Reading, a different one to Heathrow, and a different one up to Shenfield, the systems all need to talk to each other, and a train from say Abbey Wood to Heathrow, would need to be able to communicate with three different systems to complete its journey and keep passengers safe.Hex said:
I seem to recall it's not the signalling on the Crossrail track that is a problem. Crossrail also uses or crosses non-Crossrail track and it is the integration of the various signalling and train control systems that is the issue along with very limited testing time each night.StigThundercock said:
Railway signalling must have got really really difficult in the last 5 years. There's permanent trouble all around Lewisham, according to southeastern; Branson had recurring issues all up the WCML for years; now Crossrail can't build em right from scratch on almost entirely new trackways.clive said:TfL have this morning revealed that Crossrail has been delayed yet further until autumn 2021. The previous hope was early 2021 though this is hardly a surprise given recent progress.
The delay is mainly due to signalling issues. Most stations are now complete or almost ready.
https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2020/01/06/crossrail-delayed-yet-further-to-autumn-2021/
Either that or all those cash guzzling frauds reckon that's the sort of plausible sounding bullshit they can trot out to mislead the gullible gravy train suckers at DoT and fob off us poor saps who have to fund the whole farago and use the runt of a so called service that's left.
The on board train software needs to translate the 3 different signal systems instantaneously as the train moves through the system which is part of the problem. Bearing in mind the timing of the service it is very difficult to run this train service with the driver in control.
I guess I am the only person on here actually working directly on the Crossrail Project.0 -
But the whole point of Crossrail is linking existing commuter lines so that instead of terminating at Paddington or Liverpool Street, the trains can cross London without passengers needing to change.Hex said:But as said previously, the problem is signal/control integration. I am sure there is an accountant somewhere that dines out on how much money he saved by ensuring Crossrail shared some lines instead of being completely seperate.
That's what the RERs are.1 -
London's Crossrail project has been hit with fresh delays and may need an extra £450m, its board has said.
The route - known as the Elizabeth Line - was initially due to open in December 2018 but has faced numerous delays.
Crossrail has now said the line's central section, from Paddington to Abbey Wood, would be ready to open "in the first half of 2022".
The Mayor of London is said to be "deeply disappointed" with the latest delay.
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A real kick in the stomach this is.
Bought my flat in West Thamesmead at a premium in 2018 because Crossrail was due to open down the road in Woolwich. Obviously that hasn’t happened, and still won’t happen for a long time. Can’t even sell the bloody place if i wanted to because of the cladding/EWS1 issues. Absolute nightmare.0 -
Probably a lot of people in 2017 who’ve bought help to buy Loans in areas that would be served by crossrail will have to start paying the interest before the Elizabeth line opens, meaning there was no practical reason to move there in the first place and they may well not see any significant rise in the value of their property by the time they move on.cafctom said:A real kick in the stomach this is.
Bought my flat in West Thamesmead at a premium in 2018 because Crossrail was due to open down the road in Woolwich. Obviously that hasn’t happened, and still won’t happen for a long time. Can’t even sell the bloody place if i wanted to because of the cladding/EWS1 issues. Absolute nightmare.A huge shame, we need more projects like crossrail (v keen for crossrail 2) but this is a clusterfuck that will deeply dampen public appetite for another project.3 -
Friendly reminder boris Johnson effectively cancelled having a mass tram system south of the river in favour of crossrail.1
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Very worrying that projects like this, HS2, Heathrow etc need more and more significant amounts of money. Who on earth does the budgeting in the first place? I appreciate that overspend can be 'a but more' than the contingency that has been (supposedly) calculated and included, but now another £450m on top of whatever else there has already been?!0
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I worked on the station at Tottenham Court Road in 2015 and at that point the structure was finished and fit out well under way. I can't begin to understand how far behind the other stations must have been at that point for it to still be 2 years+ off opening.
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My girlfriend is a programme manager in construction. The whole bid process for jobs is an absolute farce. She will spend weeks on a programme for a large erection (ooer!) and it will then be torn to shreds by both the customer AND HER SALESPEOPLE because it's 'too expensive'. Everything will get cut to ribbons, she will be asked to change the programme so that it can be delivered quicker, cheaper and with less people, and eventually, after several rounds of this (bearing in mind this is also going on with every other bidder) the cheapest and quickest bid will be selected. This will bear precisely zero relation to the ACTUAL time and cost to build, but the trade-off is that it's accepted that penalties and fines will be levied on the construction company for not being able to complete the job 'on time'. This process is exactly the same whether you're building for private sector or public sector, but the scale of public sector programmes (like Crossrail) pretty much guarantees that the scale of delay and cost over-run will be much bigger than private sector projects (even more so when you consider that the political motivation for costing a programme at well under budget is immense in the current government)PrincessFiona said:Very worrying that projects like this, HS2, Heathrow etc need more and more significant amounts of money. Who on earth does the budgeting in the first place? I appreciate that overspend can be 'a but more' than the contingency that has been (supposedly) calculated and included, but now another £450m on top of whatever else there has already been?!
If you think Crossrail is insane, HS2 will make you weep. I've got stories about that particular unpolished turd that would make your toes curl...5 -
I thought the received wisdom was that we were very good at this sort of thing!
After all we managed to put on the 2012 Olympics for only £12 billion pounds and all on time! We even had a quarter of a billion left over to build a new stadium for the 'ammers!
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When this vital project is finished it will connect a major airport nobody is using, three key commercial centres where nobody is going and several towns and suburbs nobody is commuting from.5
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Abbey Wood to Westbourne Park in 18 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1HZHDTjGSw&list=WL&index=11 -
Bit early for this kind of filth.clive said:
Abbey Wood to Westbourne Park in 18 minuteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1HZHDTjGSw&list=WL&index=122 -
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From that video it's bloody finished! Just open the fecking thing and get on with the next project0
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We haven’t completely ‘left’ the EU yet. The time for the political economic boost (crossrail will bring) for leaving the EU is almost there though.sam3110 said:From that video it's bloody finished! Just open the fecking thing and get on with the next project0 -
clive said:
Abbey Wood to Westbourne Park in 18 minuteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1HZHDTjGSw&list=WL&index=1
An absolute wankfest for this forum ;-)
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Definitely NSFWman_at_milletts said:clive said:
Abbey Wood to Westbourne Park in 18 minuteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1HZHDTjGSw&list=WL&index=1
An absolute wankfest for this forum ;-)0 -
No good, shot my load just before Woolwich.6
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crossrail 2 is far more needed imo and it will now probably be scrapped because of the clusterfuck of crossrail 1.newyorkaddick said:When this vital project is finished it will connect a major airport nobody is using, three key commercial centres where nobody is going and several towns and suburbs nobody is commuting from.2 -
how is it that video's left me sleepy, dehydrated and with a sore arm?clive said:
Abbey Wood to Westbourne Park in 18 minuteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1HZHDTjGSw&list=WL&index=10 -
Public procurement has been a monumental clusterfuck for generations, providing huge feeding frenzy free-for-alls for any vaguely clued up contractors and constructors, we know this.Leroy Ambrose said:
My girlfriend is a programme manager in construction. The whole bid process for jobs is an absolute farce. She will spend weeks on a programme for a large erection (ooer!) and it will then be torn to shreds by both the customer AND HER SALESPEOPLE because it's 'too expensive'. Everything will get cut to ribbons, she will be asked to change the programme so that it can be delivered quicker, cheaper and with less people, and eventually, after several rounds of this (bearing in mind this is also going on with every other bidder) the cheapest and quickest bid will be selected. This will bear precisely zero relation to the ACTUAL time and cost to build, but the trade-off is that it's accepted that penalties and fines will be levied on the construction company for not being able to complete the job 'on time'. This process is exactly the same whether you're building for private sector or public sector, but the scale of public sector programmes (like Crossrail) pretty much guarantees that the scale of delay and cost over-run will be much bigger than private sector projects (even more so when you consider that the political motivation for costing a programme at well under budget is immense in the current government)PrincessFiona said:Very worrying that projects like this, HS2, Heathrow etc need more and more significant amounts of money. Who on earth does the budgeting in the first place? I appreciate that overspend can be 'a but more' than the contingency that has been (supposedly) calculated and included, but now another £450m on top of whatever else there has already been?!
If you think Crossrail is insane, HS2 will make you weep. I've got stories about that particular unpolished turd that would make your toes curl...
The CR massive civil engineering tasks are mostly done, lots of the fitting out and customer side visible fancy nonsense is done, i.e. the stuff that actually takes a long time and requires proper long term planning & resourcing. We can see all the fully lit(!!), ready to go stations & platforms all along that line.
We keep hearing that it's the multiple systems integration that's the "delay". {Insert hollow jokes about London transport 'minutes'}. This has the familiar stench of IT systems salesmen's bullshit "yeah that can be done, we'll do that" never once has any of those parasitic pisstakers ever made a proper analysis of what's actually involved, in the real world, what's already there, what can and can't be done now - before the new thing - and how that's all going to work during and after implementation.
Meanwhile the sucker paying the bills (that's you lot, taxpayers) takes the word of these pricks as gospel and carries on building the heavy stuff in good faith with no actual prospect of much of it being any effing use to anyone, anytime soon. Undermined constantly by the actually competent diligent staff on the CR side, getting hacked off with all the bad PR and bailing out to less dispiriting jobs for their own good health and good luck to them. CR constantly playing catch up while the IT systems aresholes try and make out that the goalposts have been moved.
With the added spice of cynical lying opportunist gobshite PM rogering the London Mayor for no better reason than cos he feels like it.
SK inherited Bojo's TfL shitheap, had COVID wipe out 80+% of its cashflow only for Bojo to effectively blame that financial black hole on SK as well. Anyone blaming SK for London's roadpricing future needs to give their head a wobble.3 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXGWKcoGynM
Crossrail Chief Executive Mark Wild gives an update on latest progress, including handover of shafts & portals to TfL. Our focus is to start intensive operational testing known as Trial Running, at the earliest opportunity in 2021.
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