I have just read through this and literally cannot believe some of the tripe being banded around. I've tried to stay off this thread because it is very emotive for me.
All I know is a mate of mine was blown to pieces by people who this person with the flag was supporting. Blown to pieces on his way to work. He left behind his mum, disabled sister and fiancee. He'd been on this earth 30 years.
If the two trolls on this thread can't see how what the prick waving the flag was doing is at best offensive and at worst criminal (according to the Public Order Act) and feel we should just mock him or ignore it and hope it goes away I dispair.
Next time I see my friends mum and sister and his mum breaks down when she tells me how upset she was that the police allowed this guy to continue his support for the people who took her son away, I'll be sure to let her know that the best way to deal with it is to ignore it or parody the blokes flag. Or perhaps I should direct her to the trolls on this thread.
Jesus wept.
I'm not sure that they are trolling, but genuinely offering a different opinion on the one given example of a ISIS flag being worn through London.
Theoretically no different to a skinhead walking round with a millwall flag draped over him.
It is totally different.
Bunch of morons who use violence to get their own way. Try to intimidate others on reputation.
All I am saying is, as much as it angers me that the ISIS man 'got away with it'...and it angered me it really did....I'm actually not sure why.
What I've learnt from this thread: Chizz and Leuth are both terrorist sympathisers. Probably the type of people that cycle their bike to work with a camera on top and submit videos to pages like 'britains dangerous drivers' but then at the same time run red lights and blame everyone else.
Also did someone really try to challenge my old man on world war knowledge Ffs stop the world I want to get off
Can I encourage you to rescind that ridiculous comment?
I have just read through this and literally cannot believe some of the tripe being banded around. I've tried to stay off this thread because it is very emotive for me.
All I know is a mate of mine was blown to pieces by people who this person with the flag was supporting. Blown to pieces on his way to work. He left behind his mum, disabled sister and fiancee. He'd been on this earth 30 years.
If the two trolls on this thread can't see how what the prick waving the flag was doing is at best offensive and at worst criminal (according to the Public Order Act) and feel we should just mock him or ignore it and hope it goes away I dispair.
Next time I see my friends mum and sister and his mum breaks down when she tells me how upset she was that the police allowed this guy to continue his support for the people who took her son away, I'll be sure to let her know that the best way to deal with it is to ignore it or parody the blokes flag. Or perhaps I should direct her to the trolls on this thread.
Jesus wept.
I'm not sure that they are trolling, but genuinely offering a different opinion on the one given example of a ISIS flag being worn through London.
Theoretically no different to a skinhead walking round with a millwall flag draped over him.
It is totally different.
Bunch of morons who use violence to get their own way. Try to intimidate others on reputation.
All I am saying is, as much as it angers me that the ISIS man 'got away with it'...and it angered me it really did....I'm actually not sure why.
There is an enormous difference between a Millwall fan and ISIS, don't be silly. It's not a joking matter imo.
What I've learnt from this thread: Chizz and Leuth are both terrorist sympathisers. Probably the type of people that cycle their bike to work with a camera on top and submit videos to pages like 'britains dangerous drivers' but then at the same time run red lights and blame everyone else.
Also did someone really try to challenge my old man on world war knowledge Ffs stop the world I want to get off
Can I encourage you to rescind that ridiculous comment?
No
So, to be clear, you're saying that I am a terrorist sympathiser?
What I've learnt from this thread: Chizz and Leuth are both terrorist sympathisers. Probably the type of people that cycle their bike to work with a camera on top and submit videos to pages like 'britains dangerous drivers' but then at the same time run red lights and blame everyone else.
Also did someone really try to challenge my old man on world war knowledge Ffs stop the world I want to get off
Can I encourage you to rescind that ridiculous comment?
No
So, to be clear, you're saying that I am a terrorist sympathiser?
Let me take this one !
I've not seen any evidence that you think this scumbag has done anything wrong
There is a very true statement and that is "The security services/police have to get luck every time the terrorists only have to get lucky once" and so for us to not have another 7/7 for 10 years is true tribute to those people who protect us and the skill an dedication they put into their jobs.
I was a young man when the IRA were terrorizing mainland UK but they were not Fanatical (cowardly? sensible?) to want to blow themselves up but the Muslim fanatics are at a different level and we, thanks to Tony Blair, are primary targets and yet today if you asked me I would support an alliance to take IS on and destroy them for good. Accepted that it is very tough to destroy and "ideology" but ultimately it is an inevitable fight we need to have.
my greatest fear is that they use our democracy to get power and then take it away.
Are we safer? on a day to day basis I say yes, long term not so sure
When England was less tolerant, atrocities never happened, eh?
It is the tolerance of the society alone that can counter radicalisation. A divided society is a society that breeds warfare. It is an extremely simple principle.
Obviously even a tolerant society must mobilise in the face of imminent threat. A man with a flag is not the German Army invading Western Europe.
...................
And that is exactly where the Nazis started. With hate, Flags of hate and Emblems of hate. We should learn from history not repeat it.
.......................
What does ISIS have? At best 200,000 troops scattered across multiple middle eastern countries with no Air Force, no Navy and no tanks or serious assault vehicles.
They don't have 200,000 troops. They have 200,000 fanatics who are actively looking to die for their stupid medieval religious beliefs. The fact that they are looking to die is one of the main reasons why, in their previous guises, they have been able to hold their own against the heavily armed and highly trained troops of the US and its allies.
Plus, these 200,000 troops are backed up by 1.6 billion Muslims around the world. This war against this stone age belief system has been going on for at least 15 years now. I have seen absolutely no evidence that the vast majority of the Muslim world are opposed to the on going attempt to spread the influence of this sick and disgusting religion. What I do see evidence of is the way modern mass communications and social media has allowed the semi literate, poorly educated masses from around the globe that form the bulk of the followers of this religion, to connect with each other and find a sense of purpose and shared resentment at the modern secular world.
London, and all modern secular societies around the world are not under attack from a few islamic extremists. They are under attack from what is in effect the new Islamic world.
I feel less safe in London than I did 10 years ago. I see no evidence that the hatred that the new Islamic World has for me and everything I stand for has dimmed. It is insanely stupid to invoke a mythical Londoner's 'blitz carry on as normal spirit' in the light of this threat. It is completely different.
Behave yourself, please.
ISIS are backed up by 1.6 billion Muslims around the world? Really? Even the ones they are slaughtering in their thousands across the Muslim world. There's your insanely stupid right there.
I was in Jakarta last month, Kuala Lumpur too, didn't see too many ISIS sympathisers in either place to be honest despite both cities being majority Muslim. Can we take them off the 1.6 billion now?
During WWII London survived years of nightly bombing from the Germans with tens of thousands sheltering EVERY night - yet still tens of thousands were killed with many more injured. That's not to mention the land war taking place just across the channel or the fact we had food rationing in place because of naval blockades.
What have ISIS or any other Islamist group done in London so far? One attack ten years ago and since then our intelligence people have foiled everything - not exactly prolific are they? Or very good at what they do either.
Are we supposed to go around cowering in fear of this lot? I must have missed that Memo when it came round.
So, do yourself a favour, get out from under the bed, read a few proper history books and grow a pair of balls - you and the other bed wetters are giving this scum exactly what they want.
Christ almighty, if our forbears were as spineless as you we'd have been munching on Sauerkraut by Christmas 1939.
What I've learnt from this thread: Chizz and Leuth are both terrorist sympathisers. Probably the type of people that cycle their bike to work with a camera on top and submit videos to pages like 'britains dangerous drivers' but then at the same time run red lights and blame everyone else.
Also did someone really try to challenge my old man on world war knowledge Ffs stop the world I want to get off
Can I encourage you to rescind that ridiculous comment?
No
So, to be clear, you're saying that I am a terrorist sympathiser?
Let me take this one !
I've not seen any evidence that you think this scumbag has done anything wrong
When England was less tolerant, atrocities never happened, eh?
It is the tolerance of the society alone that can counter radicalisation. A divided society is a society that breeds warfare. It is an extremely simple principle.
Obviously even a tolerant society must mobilise in the face of imminent threat. A man with a flag is not the German Army invading Western Europe.
...................
And that is exactly where the Nazis started. With hate, Flags of hate and Emblems of hate. We should learn from history not repeat it.
.......................
What does ISIS have? At best 200,000 troops scattered across multiple middle eastern countries with no Air Force, no Navy and no tanks or serious assault vehicles.
They don't have 200,000 troops. They have 200,000 fanatics who are actively looking to die for their stupid medieval religious beliefs. The fact that they are looking to die is one of the main reasons why, in their previous guises, they have been able to hold their own against the heavily armed and highly trained troops of the US and its allies.
Plus, these 200,000 troops are backed up by 1.6 billion Muslims around the world. This war against this stone age belief system has been going on for at least 15 years now. I have seen absolutely no evidence that the vast majority of the Muslim world are opposed to the on going attempt to spread the influence of this sick and disgusting religion. What I do see evidence of is the way modern mass communications and social media has allowed the semi literate, poorly educated masses from around the globe that form the bulk of the followers of this religion, to connect with each other and find a sense of purpose and shared resentment at the modern secular world.
London, and all modern secular societies around the world are not under attack from a few islamic extremists. They are under attack from what is in effect the new Islamic world.
I feel less safe in London than I did 10 years ago. I see no evidence that the hatred that the new Islamic World has for me and everything I stand for has dimmed. It is insanely stupid to invoke a mythical Londoner's 'blitz carry on as normal spirit' in the light of this threat. It is completely different.
Behave yourself, please.
ISIS are backed up by 1.6 billion Muslims around the world? Really? Even the ones they are slaughtering in their thousands across the Muslim world. There's your insanely stupid right there.
During WWII London survived years of nightly bombing from the Germans with tens of thousands sheltering EVERY night - yet still tens of thousands were killed with many more injured. That's not to mention the land war taking place just across the channel or the fact we had food rationing in place because of naval blockades.
What have ISIS or any other Islamist group done in London so far? One attack ten years ago and since then our intelligence people have foiled everything - not exactly prolific are they? Or very good at what they do either.
Are we supposed to go around cowering in fear of this lot? I must have missed that Memo when it came round.
So, do yourself a favour, get out from under the bed, read a few proper history books and grow a pair of balls - you and the other bed wetters are giving this scum exactly what they want.
Christ almighty, if our forbears were as spineless as you we'd have been munching on Sauerkraut by Christmas 1939.
Lee Rigbys family might argue there's only been one incident in 10 years.
And anyway, it's not all about cowering in fear, it's about not having to put up with the scumbags practically taking the piss in a society they claim to hate so much. I don't agree with Red_in_se8 post but I do 100% think the police should have the power to be able to tell the scumbag 'listen, put the flag away now'.
When England was less tolerant, atrocities never happened, eh?
It is the tolerance of the society alone that can counter radicalisation. A divided society is a society that breeds warfare. It is an extremely simple principle.
Obviously even a tolerant society must mobilise in the face of imminent threat. A man with a flag is not the German Army invading Western Europe.
...................
And that is exactly where the Nazis started. With hate, Flags of hate and Emblems of hate. We should learn from history not repeat it.
.......................
What does ISIS have? At best 200,000 troops scattered across multiple middle eastern countries with no Air Force, no Navy and no tanks or serious assault vehicles.
They don't have 200,000 troops. They have 200,000 fanatics who are actively looking to die for their stupid medieval religious beliefs. The fact that they are looking to die is one of the main reasons why, in their previous guises, they have been able to hold their own against the heavily armed and highly trained troops of the US and its allies.
Plus, these 200,000 troops are backed up by 1.6 billion Muslims around the world. This war against this stone age belief system has been going on for at least 15 years now. I have seen absolutely no evidence that the vast majority of the Muslim world are opposed to the on going attempt to spread the influence of this sick and disgusting religion. What I do see evidence of is the way modern mass communications and social media has allowed the semi literate, poorly educated masses from around the globe that form the bulk of the followers of this religion, to connect with each other and find a sense of purpose and shared resentment at the modern secular world.
London, and all modern secular societies around the world are not under attack from a few islamic extremists. They are under attack from what is in effect the new Islamic world.
I feel less safe in London than I did 10 years ago. I see no evidence that the hatred that the new Islamic World has for me and everything I stand for has dimmed. It is insanely stupid to invoke a mythical Londoner's 'blitz carry on as normal spirit' in the light of this threat. It is completely different.
Behave yourself, please.
ISIS are backed up by 1.6 billion Muslims around the world? Really? Even the ones they are slaughtering in their thousands across the Muslim world. There's your insanely stupid right there.
During WWII London survived years of nightly bombing from the Germans with tens of thousands sheltering EVERY night - yet still tens of thousands were killed with many more injured. That's not to mention the land war taking place just across the channel or the fact we had food rationing in place because of naval blockades.
What have ISIS or any other Islamist group done in London so far? One attack ten years ago and since then our intelligence people have foiled everything - not exactly prolific are they? Or very good at what they do either.
Are we supposed to go around cowering in fear of this lot? I must have missed that Memo when it came round.
So, do yourself a favour, get out from under the bed, read a few proper history books and grow a pair of balls - you and the other bed wetters are giving this scum exactly what they want.
Christ almighty, if our forbears were as spineless as you we'd have been munching on Sauerkraut by Christmas 1939.
Not read such simplistic jingoistic clichéd nonsense since the Sun newspaper ceased publication.
When England was less tolerant, atrocities never happened, eh?
It is the tolerance of the society alone that can counter radicalisation. A divided society is a society that breeds warfare. It is an extremely simple principle.
Obviously even a tolerant society must mobilise in the face of imminent threat. A man with a flag is not the German Army invading Western Europe.
...................
And that is exactly where the Nazis started. With hate, Flags of hate and Emblems of hate. We should learn from history not repeat it.
.......................
What does ISIS have? At best 200,000 troops scattered across multiple middle eastern countries with no Air Force, no Navy and no tanks or serious assault vehicles.
They don't have 200,000 troops. They have 200,000 fanatics who are actively looking to die for their stupid medieval religious beliefs. The fact that they are looking to die is one of the main reasons why, in their previous guises, they have been able to hold their own against the heavily armed and highly trained troops of the US and its allies.
Plus, these 200,000 troops are backed up by 1.6 billion Muslims around the world. This war against this stone age belief system has been going on for at least 15 years now. I have seen absolutely no evidence that the vast majority of the Muslim world are opposed to the on going attempt to spread the influence of this sick and disgusting religion. What I do see evidence of is the way modern mass communications and social media has allowed the semi literate, poorly educated masses from around the globe that form the bulk of the followers of this religion, to connect with each other and find a sense of purpose and shared resentment at the modern secular world.
London, and all modern secular societies around the world are not under attack from a few islamic extremists. They are under attack from what is in effect the new Islamic world.
I feel less safe in London than I did 10 years ago. I see no evidence that the hatred that the new Islamic World has for me and everything I stand for has dimmed. It is insanely stupid to invoke a mythical Londoner's 'blitz carry on as normal spirit' in the light of this threat. It is completely different.
Behave yourself, please.
ISIS are backed up by 1.6 billion Muslims around the world? Really? Even the ones they are slaughtering in their thousands across the Muslim world. There's your insanely stupid right there.
During WWII London survived years of nightly bombing from the Germans with tens of thousands sheltering EVERY night - yet still tens of thousands were killed with many more injured. That's not to mention the land war taking place just across the channel or the fact we had food rationing in place because of naval blockades.
What have ISIS or any other Islamist group done in London so far? One attack ten years ago and since then our intelligence people have foiled everything - not exactly prolific are they? Or very good at what they do either.
Are we supposed to go around cowering in fear of this lot? I must have missed that Memo when it came round.
So, do yourself a favour, get out from under the bed, read a few proper history books and grow a pair of balls - you and the other bed wetters are giving this scum exactly what they want.
Christ almighty, if our forbears were as spineless as you we'd have been munching on Sauerkraut by Christmas 1939.
Not forgetting the many, many bombs in London from the 70s onwards and indeed earlier. Terrorism is not new, we just have different terrorists.
I've read this thread intently; all 280 comments. The reason I followed so closely without commenting is because I hadn't made up my mind and wanted to se what I'd learn. On the are we safer question, I now feel that London is probably less safe. If that many potential incidents have been stopped in the last ten years (and I've no reason to doubt they have), then it's hats off to the security forces for doing a grand job. However, they can't stop everything and Lee Rigby is sadly evidence of this. I feel it's only going to be a matter of time before there is more mayhem and carnage. I don't usually think about 7/7 on an average day, but was acutely aware as I was in the city on Tuesday and felt decidedly uneasy on the tube in case some nutter wanted to mark the anniversary in an horrific manner.
The other important question, the one that's taken over, re banning islamist flags I found even more difficult. On the one hand I find the idea of people bandying these things around more than distasteful. I don't want to see it, and I don't others to have to see it. That said my natural inclination is not one of censorship. I have to congratulate Chizz and Leuth for putting up some bold arguments. I think they both did well at holding their, minority, opinion and made many good points. The notion that they are promoting terrorism is quite frankly ridiculous, and anyone that says so hasn't understood the subtlety of their arguments. That said, they haven't persuaded me. For me, the most powerful arguments have come from Valley Gary and others around it making people scared. No-one should feel threatened or endangered whilst going about their everyday business. Anyone carrying such a flag would surely have it as a motive to make others feel threatened and uncomfortable. For that reason alone I think we should ban islamist flags.
I have just read through this and literally cannot believe some of the tripe being banded around. I've tried to stay off this thread because it is very emotive for me.
All I know is a mate of mine was blown to pieces by people who this person with the flag was supporting. Blown to pieces on his way to work. He left behind his mum, disabled sister and fiancee. He'd been on this earth 30 years.
If the two trolls on this thread can't see how what the prick waving the flag was doing is at best offensive and at worst criminal (according to the Public Order Act) and feel we should just mock him or ignore it and hope it goes away I dispair.
Next time I see my friends mum and sister and his mum breaks down when she tells me how upset she was that the police allowed this guy to continue his support for the people who took her son away, I'll be sure to let her know that the best way to deal with it is to ignore it or parody the blokes flag. Or perhaps I should direct her to the trolls on this thread.
Jesus wept.
I'm very sorry to hear that. Horrible and utterly senseless loss.
The threat of extremism should never be ignored and those lost to slaughter should never be forgotten.
The prick waving the flag is awful and my position on this has been consistent. I hope he suffers as a result, whether from police investigators, his family or his employers. He lacks empathy for anything save his twisted cause.
But he is not only awful - he is pathetic, a coward hiding behind his own young child, espousing a cause he would probably shit himself before attempting to die for.
He does not deserve the legitimacy of a powerful response like a flag ban or a head-kicking. He deserves to be scorned by those who have not suffered directly as a result of terrorism, and defiantly stood up to - belittled - by those who have.
If ISIS flags begin to result in rallies, organised violence or terror attacks, then they need to be curbed by law. Until then, while they may inspire fear by their very associations, I just really hope that people try as hard as they can to respond not with fear but with strength and grace. These bastards want us scared. We want them ostracised by their communities and reduced to the nothings they deserve to be.
I have just read through this and literally cannot believe some of the tripe being banded around. I've tried to stay off this thread because it is very emotive for me.
All I know is a mate of mine was blown to pieces by people who this person with the flag was supporting. Blown to pieces on his way to work. He left behind his mum, disabled sister and fiancee. He'd been on this earth 30 years.
If the two trolls on this thread can't see how what the prick waving the flag was doing is at best offensive and at worst criminal (according to the Public Order Act) and feel we should just mock him or ignore it and hope it goes away I dispair.
Next time I see my friends mum and sister and his mum breaks down when she tells me how upset she was that the police allowed this guy to continue his support for the people who took her son away, I'll be sure to let her know that the best way to deal with it is to ignore it or parody the blokes flag. Or perhaps I should direct her to the trolls on this thread.
Jesus wept.
I'm not sure that they are trolling, but genuinely offering a different opinion on the one given example of a ISIS flag being worn through London.
Theoretically no different to a skinhead walking round with a millwall flag draped over him.
P.S not trying to trivialise things, and sorry for your loss.
Arguably the most ridiculous sentance ever written on here - comparing a football clubs (admittedly notorious) fans to supporters of a barbaric terrorist organisation.
I have just read through this and literally cannot believe some of the tripe being banded around. I've tried to stay off this thread because it is very emotive for me.
All I know is a mate of mine was blown to pieces by people who this person with the flag was supporting. Blown to pieces on his way to work. He left behind his mum, disabled sister and fiancee. He'd been on this earth 30 years.
If the two trolls on this thread can't see how what the prick waving the flag was doing is at best offensive and at worst criminal (according to the Public Order Act) and feel we should just mock him or ignore it and hope it goes away I dispair.
Next time I see my friends mum and sister and his mum breaks down when she tells me how upset she was that the police allowed this guy to continue his support for the people who took her son away, I'll be sure to let her know that the best way to deal with it is to ignore it or parody the blokes flag. Or perhaps I should direct her to the trolls on this thread.
Jesus wept.
I'm very sorry to hear that. Horrible and utterly senseless loss.
The threat of extremism should never be ignored and those lost to slaughter should never be forgotten.
The prick waving the flag is awful and my position on this has been consistent. I hope he suffers as a result, whether from police investigators, his family or his employers. He lacks empathy for anything save his twisted cause.
But he is not only awful - he is pathetic, a coward hiding behind his own young child, espousing a cause he would probably shit himself before attempting to die for.
He does not deserve the legitimacy of a powerful response like a flag ban or a head-kicking. He deserves to be scorned by those who have not suffered directly as a result of terrorism, and defiantly stood up to - belittled - by those who have.
If ISIS flags begin to result in rallies, organised violence or terror attacks, then they need to be curbed by law. Until then, while they may inspire fear by their very associations, I just really hope that people try as hard as they can to respond not with fear but with strength and grace. These bastards want us scared. We want them ostracised by their communities and reduced to the nothings they deserve to be.
I can completely accept that point of view and I think that's an excellent post. However, it's easy for you, me and some others to say yep I'm not gonna let these tossers frighten me. But it's not so easy for some. They are scared, they have seen what's happened to Lee Rigby on the streets of London and therefore that flag, as Stig mentions above, should be banned.
I have just read through this and literally cannot believe some of the tripe being banded around. I've tried to stay off this thread because it is very emotive for me.
All I know is a mate of mine was blown to pieces by people who this person with the flag was supporting. Blown to pieces on his way to work. He left behind his mum, disabled sister and fiancee. He'd been on this earth 30 years.
If the two trolls on this thread can't see how what the prick waving the flag was doing is at best offensive and at worst criminal (according to the Public Order Act) and feel we should just mock him or ignore it and hope it goes away I dispair.
Next time I see my friends mum and sister and his mum breaks down when she tells me how upset she was that the police allowed this guy to continue his support for the people who took her son away, I'll be sure to let her know that the best way to deal with it is to ignore it or parody the blokes flag. Or perhaps I should direct her to the trolls on this thread.
Jesus wept.
I'm very sorry to hear that. Horrible and utterly senseless loss.
The threat of extremism should never be ignored and those lost to slaughter should never be forgotten.
The prick waving the flag is awful and my position on this has been consistent. I hope he suffers as a result, whether from police investigators, his family or his employers. He lacks empathy for anything save his twisted cause.
But he is not only awful - he is pathetic, a coward hiding behind his own young child, espousing a cause he would probably shit himself before attempting to die for.
He does not deserve the legitimacy of a powerful response like a flag ban or a head-kicking. He deserves to be scorned by those who have not suffered directly as a result of terrorism, and defiantly stood up to - belittled - by those who have.
If ISIS flags begin to result in rallies, organised violence or terror attacks, then they need to be curbed by law. Until then, while they may inspire fear by their very associations, I just really hope that people try as hard as they can to respond not with fear but with strength and grace. These bastards want us scared. We want them ostracised by their communities and reduced to the nothings they deserve to be.
I can completely accept that point of view and I think that's an excellent post. However, it's easy for you, me and some others to say yep I'm not gonna let these tossers frighten me. But it's not so easy for some. They are scared, they have seen what's happened to Lee Rigby on the streets of London and therefore that flag, as Stig mentions above, should be banned.
We should be honoured to have them on our streets!
Just kidding. I think in practice it won't take too many more public appearances before a fight breaks out and measures are taken to detain and question anyone subsequently caught holding the flag. I don't think it should be an official ban, still, but a case-by-case judgement call by the police (which conveniently treats each case as suspicious, even if - ESPECIALLY if - it's some Bullingdon shits having a larf)
I have just read through this and literally cannot believe some of the tripe being banded around. I've tried to stay off this thread because it is very emotive for me.
All I know is a mate of mine was blown to pieces by people who this person with the flag was supporting. Blown to pieces on his way to work. He left behind his mum, disabled sister and fiancee. He'd been on this earth 30 years.
If the two trolls on this thread can't see how what the prick waving the flag was doing is at best offensive and at worst criminal (according to the Public Order Act) and feel we should just mock him or ignore it and hope it goes away I dispair.
Next time I see my friends mum and sister and his mum breaks down when she tells me how upset she was that the police allowed this guy to continue his support for the people who took her son away, I'll be sure to let her know that the best way to deal with it is to ignore it or parody the blokes flag. Or perhaps I should direct her to the trolls on this thread.
Jesus wept.
I'm very sorry to hear that. Horrible and utterly senseless loss.
The threat of extremism should never be ignored and those lost to slaughter should never be forgotten.
The prick waving the flag is awful and my position on this has been consistent. I hope he suffers as a result, whether from police investigators, his family or his employers. He lacks empathy for anything save his twisted cause.
But he is not only awful - he is pathetic, a coward hiding behind his own young child, espousing a cause he would probably shit himself before attempting to die for.
He does not deserve the legitimacy of a powerful response like a flag ban or a head-kicking. He deserves to be scorned by those who have not suffered directly as a result of terrorism, and defiantly stood up to - belittled - by those who have.
If ISIS flags begin to result in rallies, organised violence or terror attacks, then they need to be curbed by law. Until then, while they may inspire fear by their very associations, I just really hope that people try as hard as they can to respond not with fear but with strength and grace. These bastards want us scared. We want them ostracised by their communities and reduced to the nothings they deserve to be.
I can completely accept that point of view and I think that's an excellent post. However, it's easy for you, me and some others to say yep I'm not gonna let these tossers frighten me. But it's not so easy for some. They are scared, they have seen what's happened to Lee Rigby on the streets of London and therefore that flag, as Stig mentions above, should be banned.
We should be honoured to have them on our streets!
Just kidding. I think in practice it won't take too many more public appearances before a fight breaks out and measures are taken to detain and question anyone subsequently caught holding the flag. I don't think it should be an official ban, still, but a case-by-case judgement call by the police (which conveniently treats each case as suspicious, even if - ESPECIALLY if - it's some Bullingdon shits having a larf)
Given all the upset you & Chizz have caused, I'm taken aback, that even now, you joke about it.
Come on. This is a forum thread about terrorism, safety and the law. Of course there are going to be points of heated contention. There is a terror victims condolences thread too and I wouldn't dream of saying anything contentious there.
The first of the Crusades began in 1095, when armies of Christians from Western Europe responded to Pope Urban II’s plea to go to war against Muslim forces in the Holy Land.
Richard the Lionheart met with Saladin in the third crusade - (couldn’t sort it out nicely)
There were five more major crusades and numerous minor ones - nothing resolved satisfactorily.
In the intervening years there have been many wars, battles and skirmishes between Christians and Muslims and what have we learnt? Absolutely sweet F.A.
I logged on at lunchtime, saw there were over 100 pots on this thread, and immediately checked newsites worried about what might have happened. Nothing there
So I opened the thread, and it was the flag argument continuing from earlier.
Many more posts since then, mostly on the same topic.
Some good points on both sides, but going back to the original question, I have to say Yes. The security services had some weaknesses then but it's tighter now. The fact that this thread has been dominated by discussing someone who wasn't carrying a weapon shows that they're getting something right.
Not complacent in any way. There will still be terrorism and threats and possibly terrible things, innocent people murdered, but I think most people can go about their business safely and without fear.
I logged on at lunchtime, saw there were over 100 pots on this thread, and immediately checked newsites worried about what might have happened. Nothing there
So I opened the thread, and it was the flag argument continuing from earlier.
Many more posts since then, mostly on the same topic.
Some good points on both sides, but going back to the original question, I have to say Yes. The security services had some weaknesses then but it's tighter now. The fact that this thread has been dominated by discussing someone who wasn't carrying a weapon shows that they're getting something right.
Not complacent in any way. There will still be terrorism and threats and possibly terrible things, innocent people murdered, but I think most people can go about their business safely and without fear.
The first of the Crusades began in 1095, when armies of Christians from Western Europe responded to Pope Urban II’s plea to go to war against Muslim forces in the Holy Land.
Richard the Lionheart met with Saladin in the third crusade - (couldn’t sort it out nicely)
There were five more major crusades and numerous minor ones - nothing resolved satisfactorily.
In the intervening years there have been many wars, battles and skirmishes between Christians and Muslims and what have we learnt? Absolutely sweet F.A.
This ain't gonna get resolved on CL tonight.
What have we learnt? After 500 years of scientific advancement we have learnt an enormous amount about this planet, life and the universe. More importantly we have learnt that all religion is primitive nonsense for simple child like minds. Unfortunately 1.6 billion people on this planet want to deny the last 500 years of advancement for mankind and drag the whole world back to the dark ages.
I've read this thread intently; all 280 comments. The reason I followed so closely without commenting is because I hadn't made up my mind and wanted to se what I'd learn. On the are we safer question, I now feel that London is probably less safe. If that many potential incidents have been stopped in the last ten years (and I've no reason to doubt they have), then it's hats off to the security forces for doing a grand job. However, they can't stop everything and Lee Rigby is sadly evidence of this. I feel it's only going to be a matter of time before there is more mayhem and carnage. I don't usually think about 7/7 on an average day, but was acutely aware as I was in the city on Tuesday and felt decidedly uneasy on the tube in case some nutter wanted to mark the anniversary in an horrific manner.
The other important question, the one that's taken over, re banning islamist flags I found even more difficult. On the one hand I find the idea of people bandying these things around more than distasteful. I don't want to see it, and I don't others to have to see it. That said my natural inclination is not one of censorship. I have to congratulate Chizz and Leuth for putting up some bold arguments. I think they both did well at holding their, minority, opinion and made many good points. The notion that they are promoting terrorism is quite frankly ridiculous, and anyone that says so hasn't understood the subtlety of their arguments. That said, they haven't persuaded me. For me, the most powerful arguments have come from Valley Gary and others around it making people scared. No-one should feel threatened or endangered whilst going about their everyday business. Anyone carrying such a flag would surely have it as a motive to make others feel threatened and uncomfortable. For that reason alone I think we should ban islamist flags.
Gutted I never got a mention in dispatches, took me f*ck*n ages to find the f*ck*n star button an all!
So, that flag doesn't bother you,@Leuth , but Islamophobia does. What about Christianophobia?
What is so precious about Islam and Muslims that people like you wanna defend so much, when most other religions are fair game?
I have spoken up on this very website against Dawkins-quoting smug atheism, my dear Rob - religion is apt for mockery but to outright deny and attack somebody for their spiritual beliefs, or tar everyone of a faith with one brush, is awful
Just seen this; I ain't one of those people who slam the door in the face of the local JW's and I'm on record for saying that I've never mocked religion as it can be of use to some people in their hour of need and if that be the case than who am I to judge. My comment that you quoted was aimed more at the liberals who seem to think along those lines. Christianity, rip it to peices; Islam, religion of absolute peace.... coughs
As much as leuth and chizz' lily livered liberal shizz has irked me.. Frank with a c has to have come out with the biggest Bollocky analogy I've read.
And actually I've read a few more down along it.
And the other thing that worries me. How on earth is Nla's kids going to join the real world when they grow up if he drives them everywhere as he won't let them on public transport?
Comments
All I am saying is, as much as it angers me that the ISIS man 'got away with it'...and it angered me it really did....I'm actually not sure why.
I've not seen any evidence that you think this scumbag has done anything wrong
He is promoting terrorism
You are sympathetic to him
I was a young man when the IRA were terrorizing mainland UK but they were not Fanatical (cowardly? sensible?) to want to blow themselves up but the Muslim fanatics are at a different level and we, thanks to Tony Blair, are primary targets and yet today if you asked me I would support an alliance to take IS on and destroy them for good. Accepted that it is very tough to destroy and "ideology" but ultimately it is an inevitable fight we need to have.
my greatest fear is that they use our democracy to get power and then take it away.
Are we safer? on a day to day basis I say yes, long term not so sure
ISIS are backed up by 1.6 billion Muslims around the world? Really? Even the ones they are slaughtering in their thousands across the Muslim world. There's your insanely stupid right there.
I was in Jakarta last month, Kuala Lumpur too, didn't see too many ISIS sympathisers in either place to be honest despite both cities being majority Muslim. Can we take them off the 1.6 billion now?
During WWII London survived years of nightly bombing from the Germans with tens of thousands sheltering EVERY night - yet still tens of thousands were killed with many more injured. That's not to mention the land war taking place just across the channel or the fact we had food rationing in place because of naval blockades.
What have ISIS or any other Islamist group done in London so far? One attack ten years ago and since then our intelligence people have foiled everything - not exactly prolific are they? Or very good at what they do either.
Are we supposed to go around cowering in fear of this lot? I must have missed that Memo when it came round.
So, do yourself a favour, get out from under the bed, read a few proper history books and grow a pair of balls - you and the other bed wetters are giving this scum exactly what they want.
Christ almighty, if our forbears were as spineless as you we'd have been munching on Sauerkraut by Christmas 1939.
And anyway, it's not all about cowering in fear, it's about not having to put up with the scumbags practically taking the piss in a society they claim to hate so much. I don't agree with Red_in_se8 post but I do 100% think the police should have the power to be able to tell the scumbag 'listen, put the flag away now'.
The other important question, the one that's taken over, re banning islamist flags I found even more difficult. On the one hand I find the idea of people bandying these things around more than distasteful. I don't want to see it, and I don't others to have to see it. That said my natural inclination is not one of censorship. I have to congratulate Chizz and Leuth for putting up some bold arguments. I think they both did well at holding their, minority, opinion and made many good points. The notion that they are promoting terrorism is quite frankly ridiculous, and anyone that says so hasn't understood the subtlety of their arguments. That said, they haven't persuaded me. For me, the most powerful arguments have come from Valley Gary and others around it making people scared. No-one should feel threatened or endangered whilst going about their everyday business. Anyone carrying such a flag would surely have it as a motive to make others feel threatened and uncomfortable. For that reason alone I think we should ban islamist flags.
The threat of extremism should never be ignored and those lost to slaughter should never be forgotten.
The prick waving the flag is awful and my position on this has been consistent. I hope he suffers as a result, whether from police investigators, his family or his employers. He lacks empathy for anything save his twisted cause.
But he is not only awful - he is pathetic, a coward hiding behind his own young child, espousing a cause he would probably shit himself before attempting to die for.
He does not deserve the legitimacy of a powerful response like a flag ban or a head-kicking. He deserves to be scorned by those who have not suffered directly as a result of terrorism, and defiantly stood up to - belittled - by those who have.
If ISIS flags begin to result in rallies, organised violence or terror attacks, then they need to be curbed by law. Until then, while they may inspire fear by their very associations, I just really hope that people try as hard as they can to respond not with fear but with strength and grace. These bastards want us scared. We want them ostracised by their communities and reduced to the nothings they deserve to be.
Take a bow mate.
Just kidding. I think in practice it won't take too many more public appearances before a fight breaks out and measures are taken to detain and question anyone subsequently caught holding the flag. I don't think it should be an official ban, still, but a case-by-case judgement call by the police (which conveniently treats each case as suspicious, even if - ESPECIALLY if - it's some Bullingdon shits having a larf)
Shame on you.
Come on. This is a forum thread about terrorism, safety and the law. Of course there are going to be points of heated contention. There is a terror victims condolences thread too and I wouldn't dream of saying anything contentious there.
Richard the Lionheart met with Saladin in the third crusade - (couldn’t sort it out nicely)
There were five more major crusades and numerous minor ones - nothing resolved satisfactorily.
In the intervening years there have been many wars, battles and skirmishes between Christians and Muslims and what have we learnt? Absolutely sweet F.A.
This ain't gonna get resolved on CL tonight.
So I opened the thread, and it was the flag argument continuing from earlier.
Many more posts since then, mostly on the same topic.
Some good points on both sides, but going back to the original question, I have to say Yes. The security services had some weaknesses then but it's tighter now. The fact that this thread has been dominated by discussing someone who wasn't carrying a weapon shows that they're getting something right.
Not complacent in any way. There will still be terrorism and threats and possibly terrible things, innocent people murdered, but I think most people can go about their business safely and without fear.
; )
And actually I've read a few more down along it.
And the other thing that worries me. How on earth is Nla's kids going to join the real world when they grow up if he drives them everywhere as he won't let them on public transport?
All these things and more... Tune in.