Ten years on from 7/7 bombings.....Is London safer now than it was then?
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Distasteful is a word I would use if someone sends a text joke about something that has happened in the world, some sort of catastrophe.Leuth said:
Both of them are or would be risking their necks.brogib said:
Why Golders Green as a venue for your made up march? Oh, because they're mainly Jews over there. It's just that you coulda used the real events of either the Poppy burning up Kensington (= FINED 50 PISSING QUID) or maybe the protests at the repatriations at Wootten Basset = (NO ARRESTS.)Leuth said:
I'll take thiscafctom said:Chizz, how do you feel about the likes of the EDL not being allowed to walk through places like Tower Hamlets on their marches? Suppose you oppose that as well then?
If ISIS planned a march, through, say, Golders Green, I'd expect mass arrests and the march to be banned. I'd positively welcome it. This wasn't an organised march. Any fucker with an EDL t-shirt can hurl racist epithets around - they're risking their neck, though
Just out of interest, why do you get urked by the slight mention of the EDL, but brush away the fact that this c**t has walked through Our capital with an ISIS flag? Coz I tell you something, if I see him doing it, he would be risking his neck.
Poppy burning and repatriation protests are very distasteful but they're not exactly promoting genocide
Standing on British streets burning a symbol of respect for fallen soldiers goes miles beyond that IMO. There is an agenda attached to it, they're not just doing it for a laugh or to kill a bit of time FFS.4 -
Not read all the comments yet but on the basis that up to 50 attacks have been foiled since 2007 i'd say no, it is not safer as we are being attacked (luckily they are being stopped) at an alarming rate.0
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Apparently it will. Just ignore them and they'll all go away.RalphMilnesgut said:I think London is safer now than it was in the 70s, 80s and early 90s and I hope it stays that way. Flag wearing extremists will not help keep the relative peace.
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Yes - it's inciting hatred ffs!! Chist i've seen people pulled at football for far less offensive flags/banners. You're something else Chizz.Chizz said:
You want to ban people from holding flags?ValleyGary said:
Yeah, I find it strange that the police have no power with something like that. Surely that flag is symbolic to terrorism and hatred??WS_Addick said:Anybody see the bloke in London the other day walking about with an ISIS flag wrapped round him with his daughter on his shoulders. Police spoke to him but there weren't any grounds to arrest.
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Pay particular attention to my posts pal, they are properThe Organiser said:Not read all the comments yet but on the basis that up to 50 attacks have been foiled since 2007 i'd say no, it is not safer as we are being attacked (luckily they are being stopped) at an alarming rate.
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People are banned from wearing caps in certain venues mate - are you from another planet?? Football supporters are routinely stopped from going to certain areas/venues. I suppose discrimination is fine, as long as it's not against minorities??!Chizz said:
I am playing devil's advocate here, but...ValleyGary said:
In instances like this, on so many levels.Chizz said:
You want to ban people from holding flags?ValleyGary said:
Yeah, I find it strange that the police have no power with something like that. Surely that flag is symbolic to terrorism and hatred??WS_Addick said:Anybody see the bloke in London the other day walking about with an ISIS flag wrapped round him with his daughter on his shoulders. Police spoke to him but there weren't any grounds to arrest.
Would you think it's acceptable for someone to walk around draped in a swastika?
Seeing as 30 British people were murdered by a IS trained gunman last week, I think it's acceptable for our police to tell that scumbag to not wear it around the countries capital.
"Daddy, what's that flag you're wearing mean...?"
This thread is about a reprehensible attack on the freedom of Londoners to go about their business. The response - the *correct* response - is to carry on as usual, living our lives in a tolerant, all-encompassing way. There are very few cities who could stoically and steadfastly go about daily life, with the dignity London has managed. And part of the reason for that is this: we Londoners understand that we cannot succumb to people telling us what to do. We don't want people telling us whom we should pray to; what we must and must not wear; whom we have to marry; what we can eat; where we go. We Londoners know that it's not right to be told what you cannot do. And we also know that it's not right to tell others what they can and cannot do.
So, who decides that someone can't carry a certain flag? Not me. While I think everything that flag stands for is a disgusting, degrading, pathetic, abhorrent mix of mediaeval atrocity and nihilistic, brainwashing degradation, I also think that people should be allowed to wave a flag if they want to. (At the same time, I hope no-one in their right might *would* want to).
Ban a flag and you've stepped over the line towards fascism. Allow people the freedom to choose and, hopefully, they'll reject fascism and embrace freedom.1 -
How would you feel if your child had been mudered on that Tunisian beach last week and you then walk out into your Capital City and are encontered by a man wan wearing a flag in support of the group who had just murdered your child?? Honestly??Leuth said:When England was less tolerant, atrocities never happened, eh?
It is the tolerance of the society alone that can counter radicalisation. A divided society is a society that breeds warfare. It is an extremely simple principle.
Obviously even a tolerant society must mobilise in the face of imminent threat. A man with a flag is not the German Army invading Western Europe.1 -
I'd feel enraged and defiant. I'd tell him that his band of bastards could blow my head off and kill my whole family but that people who believe in a fair world would never let them win. Then I'd leave him to his thoughts.3
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lol watching Organiser slowly boil up as he works his way through the thread.6
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In truth, if ISIS flag-waving becomes commonplace in this country I can see it being banned, but I genuinely think ridicule is the best way to go here. Parody ISIS flag, anyone?0
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Maybe you missed it but some French cartoonists tried parody.Leuth said:In truth, if ISIS flag-waving becomes commonplace in this country I can see it being banned, but I genuinely think ridicule is the best way to go here. Parody ISIS flag, anyone?
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And they still doSantaClaus said:
Maybe you missed it but some French cartoonists tried parody.Leuth said:In truth, if ISIS flag-waving becomes commonplace in this country I can see it being banned, but I genuinely think ridicule is the best way to go here. Parody ISIS flag, anyone?
And they're defiant2 -
Excellent post.SantaClaus said:
Maybe you missed it but some French cartoonists tried parody.Leuth said:In truth, if ISIS flag-waving becomes commonplace in this country I can see it being banned, but I genuinely think ridicule is the best way to go here. Parody ISIS flag, anyone?
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Safer now than it was then, I reckon0
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Don't mate - I'm just staggered!!ValleyGary said:lol watching Organiser slowly boil up as he works his way through the thread.
True story - coming back from the St Georges Day boat in April, me and 3 mates were on a train back to Maidstone. On said train we unfurled our St George flag with 'Maidstone' and '23/04' on it and hung it up in the near empty late night carriage. Our behaviour was as chilled (sat down eating KFC) as it could be.
A while into the journey and two policeman come into the carriage and first advised (and then demanded) that we take the flag down as it could offend someone. It's only the fact that I knew challenging the absolute disgrace of a demand would probably see me arrested that meant we reluctantly took it on the chin.
And these weirdos think some bloke should be able to walk round our Capital with a flag in support of a murderous terrorist organisation. You couldn't make it up!
Above anything else it's an absolute two-fingers up in the face of any normal, law abiding, British citizen and as a patriotic man, that alone boils my blood.13 -
And they live under a constant threat of murder. The only way they can continue their defiance is because they have around the clock armed guards. The Islamists have changed the landscape so radically that our own 'free' press couldn't reprint the cartoons because they knew what the response would be.Leuth said:
And they still doSantaClaus said:
Maybe you missed it but some French cartoonists tried parody.Leuth said:In truth, if ISIS flag-waving becomes commonplace in this country I can see it being banned, but I genuinely think ridicule is the best way to go here. Parody ISIS flag, anyone?
And they're defiant
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As a member if the emergency services working in the centre of London,I wouldn't say it was safer,what I would say is that we will be much better prepared for the next time it happens. Training,training,training will stand us in good stead plus better kit. I attended Russell Square the day after 7/7 to assist in the retrieval of bodies and body parts and its not something I want to do again. Ever.14
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What have they changed the landscape to?SantaClaus said:
And they live under a constant threat of murder. The only way they can continue their defiance is because they have around the clock armed guards. The Islamists have changed the landscape so radically that our own 'free' press couldn't reprint the cartoons because they knew what the response would be.Leuth said:
And they still doSantaClaus said:
Maybe you missed it but some French cartoonists tried parody.Leuth said:In truth, if ISIS flag-waving becomes commonplace in this country I can see it being banned, but I genuinely think ridicule is the best way to go here. Parody ISIS flag, anyone?
And they're defiant0 -
You're being disingenuous Leuth.0
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That's one word for itSantaClaus said:You're being disingenuous Leuth.
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I'm simply concerned with the notion that on the one hand we need to clamp down on expressions of Islamism with bans and zero-tolerance policies, but on the other, we shouldn't mock or deride their proponents, because that will end up with more people getting blown up. I'd have thought the former would be a greater boon to radicalisation.
It seems to me that many in this thread are very greatly afraid of this enemy, and in their fear, would prefer to have the baby out with the bathwater and remove all trace of the problem from visible society.
The problem won't go away like that.1 -
The problem isn't going to be solved by letting them parade flags in the street either. Again, the point in clamping down on such behavior is to make people feel safe going about their day to day activities.Leuth said:I'm simply concerned with the notion that on the one hand we need to clamp down on expressions of Islamism with bans and zero-tolerance policies, but on the other, we shouldn't mock or deride their proponents, because that will end up with more people getting blown up. I'd have thought the former would be a greater boon to radicalisation.
It seems to me that many in this thread are very greatly afraid of this enemy, and in their fear, would prefer to have the baby out with the bathwater and remove all trace of the problem from visible society.
The problem won't go away like that.
Try explaining the 'long term solution' you have to a child or someone who has been affected by such a tragedy. The world simply doesn't work the way you seemingly want it to.
If we ignore them, they'll still want to destroy us. If we clamp down, they'll still want to destroy us. But for crying out loud, can this country just get a bit of backbone and stop them doing whatever the hell they like?5 -
If they wish to parade - if ISIS wish to conduct official activities in the UK - then they should be stopped and sanctioned, of course.
This is one guy looking for attention.
Don't give it to him!
The parody idea is only for if and when we see the flags everywhere, when something, clearly, will have to be done.
Let's see how many people wave ISIS flags around in this country. Let's see how many of them have their lives rightfully made hell by the police thereafter.0 -
So you're saying the legal line should sit between where things are official or unofficial?Leuth said:If they wish to parade - if ISIS wish to conduct official activities in the UK - then they should be stopped and sanctioned, of course.
This is one guy looking for attention.
Don't give it to him!
The parody idea is only for if and when we see the flags everywhere, when something, clearly, will have to be done.
Let's see how many people wave ISIS flags around in this country. Let's see how many of them have their lives rightfully made hell by the police thereafter.
The burning of poppies wasn't an 'official' meeting, so thats OK?
A guy who woke up in the morning and decided he was going to go and troll people by stood outside parliament with an ISIS flag didn't organize it 'officially' so thats OK?
Even if they did these things 'officially' and advertised it on websites, billboards etc I'm sure you would find a way to excuse it.0 -
I wouldn't. There's no excuse for what this guy did. He's awful and his cause is awful. There'll be a file on him.
The burning of poppies is not a crime. It's a thoroughly distasteful and disrespectful act, but it doesn't incite violence or hatred for anyone other than the stupid twat doing the burning.
If a group of people announced their intention to turn up and burn poppies, then clearly this mandates a police presence.0 -
Personally I find anyone waving or carrying a flag to be a bit odd.1
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Lets say a group of ten ISIS mates go into central London one day but don't go announcing anything, and they go and burn a load of poppies and wave flags among the general public........Because it hasn't been 'officially' planned, you just say 'crack on and don't arrest them'?Leuth said:I wouldn't. There's no excuse for what this guy did. He's awful and his cause is awful. There'll be a file on him.
The burning of poppies is not a crime. It's a thoroughly distasteful and disrespectful act, but it doesn't incite violence or hatred for anyone other than the stupid twat doing the burning.
If a group of people announced their intention to turn up and burn poppies, then clearly this mandates a police presence.
I give up.1 -
They probably won't be carrying children on their heads, so they'll probably be challenged, there'll probably be the threat of violence, and the police will probably step in, and they'll probably be arrested, and everyone will probably agree that the right thing happened.
If they all have children on their heads? The (social & mainstream) media response will be even more repulsed and it is entirely possible that the social services could get involved.0 -
I tend to agreecolthe3rd said:Personally I find anyone waving or carrying a flag to be a bit odd.
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