so Seth in ur Utopia when is enough enough ? more than 300,000 a year legally allowed to stay here(more than 90% in England). Maybe if your beloved Labour Party hadnt deliberatly opened the doors and then lied about the numbers for a decade---people would be more sympathetic to the plight of genuine refuges.
I do not think this is a French problem or a UK one its one of the biggest issues facing Europe and has to be addressed pan euro.
If these are asylum seekers as you suggest then they should be seeking refuge in the first safe haven---not travelling another couple of thousand miles to "select" their new home.
Who pays for these new comers ? at the moment its the local councils --- by law.
Wow.
Where do you get the evidence that it is my beloved Labour party? I wrote that I voted for my candidate Heidi Alexander when I went and met all of the candidates in Lewisham East, I voted for her because of my impression of her rather than because she was Labour, which I wrote about at the time of the general election. I have assumed the increase of people coming here was a factor of being in the European community, not because Labour or anybody else had opened doors. if you want to make this party political didn't David Cameron promise to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands per year at the 2010 Election, and then fail to achieve that number? I have not so much suggested these are asylum seekers, but desperate people some criminally manipulated, some economically motivated, and some with a humanitarian imperative such as seeking asylum so you might like to read my post again on that one. I have even suggested that the issue is wider than only Europe by reference to Australia and in the past the Vietnamese boat people. You have asked me how in my Utopia when is enough enough? Firstly I am flattered that you think I have some kind of vision, even a Utopian, challenging, and possibly impractical vision, as I would not like to be akin to those who hunker down and say 'not my problem'. However to answer your question I think it is a global crisis, and 'enough' may well be about the population of the entire planet when balanced against it's resources. Of course in order to tackle a global problem would require folk to be a little bit less selfish, and to make some sacrifices and I don't hold out much hope that such an attitude would prevail.
I have witnessed first hand these dirty stinking criminal minded scum trying to intimidate and break in to vehicles along that route, a can of wd40 @ a lighter was my weapon of choice to ensure they stayed away from my vehicle and it's Contents, the only obligation the UK has to ensure its actual citizens can move safely without these filth trying their shit on
For a tiny island like ours' we provide an extreme amount of lending and goodwill for the rest of the world. It shouldn't be our obligation to do it for those who don't want to do it legally. Bollocks to em.
This is becoming a joke but sums the government up, they wanna penalise and cause us Brits problem after problem by shutting the M20 while doing nothing about the cause of it all, how long will it take to get into their thick skulls by withdrawing benefits and houses for them they won't come but that's too simple Cameron would sooner stick his head up Europe's arse and spit euros than man up and sort it
They are already in what the eu deem as obligation in fact many of them have bernina atleast two countries where it's deemed safe haven , there is no further obligation needed , these people and I struggled to call them that , have phones , money , etc where did they get those from ,
These are not genuine refugees they are chancers and criminals
Here's a radical suggestion for all the millions of so called displaced refugees around the world. Rather than flee their homelands in search of a better life, stand up and fight to secure and improve your own country, like we did in two world wars. Sounds harsh I know, but try telling that to the millions of our troops who have given their lives so that we could live in a peaceful, democratic nation. For too long we have encouraged people to flee their nations allowing rogue governments to take over virtually unopposed.
Here's a radical suggestion for all the millions of so called displaced refugees around the world. Rather than flee their homelands in search of a better life, stand up and fight to secure and improve your own country, like we did in two world wars. Sounds harsh I know, but try telling that to the millions of our troops who have given their lives so that we could live in a peaceful, democratic nation. For too long we have encouraged people to flee their nations allowing rogue governments to take over virtually unopposed.
Right on, those women and children. Let them fight ISIS. Only, are we going to arm them cos otherwise they might struggle
We took refugees from Belguim during WWI. Should we have made them stay and fight
we took refugees from Nazi Germany and occupied countries too in World War II. Should we have sent them back to fight? Of course some of those men did join the British Army and fight. Polish and Czech flyers in the RAF being the best example.
And Britain send refugees (British Citizens) to Canada and the USA during the war too. Should have made them stay at home and fight?
And as you will know there was once a time when Britain dumped its criminals on the other side of the world.
Here's a radical suggestion for all the millions of so called displaced refugees around the world. Rather than flee their homelands in search of a better life, stand up and fight to secure and improve your own country, like we did in two world wars. Sounds harsh I know, but try telling that to the millions of our troops who have given their lives so that we could live in a peaceful, democratic nation. For too long we have encouraged people to flee their nations allowing rogue governments to take over virtually unopposed.
Right on, those women and children. Let them fight ISIS. Only, are we going to arm them cos otherwise they might struggle
We took refugees from Belguim during WWI. Should we have made them stay and fight
we took refugees from Nazi Germany and occupied countries too in World War II. Should we have sent them back to fight? Of course some of those men did join the British Army and fight. Polish and Czech flyers in the RAF being the best example.
And Britain send refugees (British Citizens) to Canada and the USA during the war too. Should have made them stay at home and fight?
And as you will know there was once a time when Britain dumped its criminals on the other side of the world.
Ok, we'll let them all in then shall we.
Comparing what is going now to the state of things whilst we were living in a warzone in Britain is a ridiculous comparison.
I was waiting for that! 1) I was welcomed into Australia as a skilled migrant. 2) It took me four years and an awful lot of form filling to obtain my visa. 3) I did not hitch a ride on a lorry or boat, I did it entirely legally. 4) If Australia didn't want me, I wouldn't be here.
an easy question then why have these displaced people not asked for asylum in any of the countries of Europe that they have already passed through ? As said above it becomes a life style choice. If they had all gone to Italy/Greece and asked for asylum and the those two counties had been swamped --it would be a legit argument that the UK should do more. Plenty of space in Wales and Scotland as an example.
so Seth in ur Utopia when is enough enough ? more than 300,000 a year legally allowed to stay here(more than 90% in England). Maybe if your beloved Labour Party hadnt deliberatly opened the doors and then lied about the numbers for a decade---people would be more sympathetic to the plight of genuine refuges.
I do not think this is a French problem or a UK one its one of the biggest issues facing Europe and has to be addressed pan euro.
If these are asylum seekers as you suggest then they should be seeking refuge in the first safe haven---not travelling another couple of thousand miles to "select" their new home.
Who pays for these new comers ? at the moment its the local councils --- by law.
Wow.
Where do you get the evidence that it is my beloved Labour party? I wrote that I voted for my candidate Heidi Alexander when I went and met all of the candidates in Lewisham East, I voted for her because of my impression of her rather than because she was Labour, which I wrote about at the time of the general election. I have assumed the increase of people coming here was a factor of being in the European community, not because Labour or anybody else had opened doors. if you want to make this party political didn't David Cameron promise to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands per year at the 2010 Election, and then fail to achieve that number? I have not so much suggested these are asylum seekers, but desperate people some criminally manipulated, some economically motivated, and some with a humanitarian imperative such as seeking asylum so you might like to read my post again on that one. I have even suggested that the issue is wider than only Europe by reference to Australia and in the past the Vietnamese boat people. You have asked me how in my Utopia when is enough enough? Firstly I am flattered that you think I have some kind of vision, even a Utopian, challenging, and possibly impractical vision, as I would not like to be akin to those who hunker down and say 'not my problem'. However to answer your question I think it is a global crisis, and 'enough' may well be about the population of the entire planet when balanced against it's resources. Of course in order to tackle a global problem would require folk to be a little bit less selfish, and to make some sacrifices and I don't hold out much hope that such an attitude would prevail.
I say bollocks to the lot of them just block the tunnel up.if they were decent people they wouldn't be causing shit I don't want people like that here we have our own fair share of scum in this country without adding to it
I say bollocks to the lot of them just block the tunnel up.if they were decent people they wouldn't be causing shit I don't want people like that here we have our own fair share of scum in this country without adding to it
Further trouble is they will have no documentation, allowing more paedophiles, rapists, murders, etc with no way of knowing any previous convictions. If this lot get through there will be another ten thousand next month, something radical needs to be done and soon.
Here's a radical suggestion for all the millions of so called displaced refugees around the world. Rather than flee their homelands in search of a better life, stand up and fight to secure and improve your own country, like we did in two world wars. Sounds harsh I know, but try telling that to the millions of our troops who have given their lives so that we could live in a peaceful, democratic nation. For too long we have encouraged people to flee their nations allowing rogue governments to take over virtually unopposed.
Right on, those women and children. Let them fight ISIS. Only, are we going to arm them cos otherwise they might struggle
We took refugees from Belguim during WWI. Should we have made them stay and fight
we took refugees from Nazi Germany and occupied countries too in World War II. Should we have sent them back to fight? Of course some of those men did join the British Army and fight. Polish and Czech flyers in the RAF being the best example.
And Britain send refugees (British Citizens) to Canada and the USA during the war too. Should have made them stay at home and fight?
And as you will know there was once a time when Britain dumped its criminals on the other side of the world.
Ok, we'll let them all in then shall we.
Comparing what is going now to the state of things whilst we were living in a warzone in Britain is a ridiculous comparison.
Did you not read the post I responded to?
I agree evoking WW1 and WW2 is a ridiculous comparison which is why I responed
It was Queensland Addick's post which explicitly mentions "two world wars"
And aren't SOME of the refugees living in a "warzone" right now.
I didn't say "let them all in". I made no comment about whether they should be allowed in the country
Further trouble is they will have no documentation, allowing more paedophiles, rapists, murders, etc with no way of knowing any previous convictions. If this lot get through there will be another ten housed next month, something radical needs to be done and soon.
I agree we don't want any rapist paedophiles. We have hordes of them already in the establishment
This is becoming a joke but sums the government up, they wanna penalise and cause us Brits problem after problem by shutting the M20 while doing nothing about the cause of it all, how long will it take to get into their thick skulls by withdrawing benefits and houses for them they won't come but that's too simple Cameron would sooner stick his head up Europe's arse and spit euros than man up and sort it
I thought we passed legislation removing benefits for any immigrants coming over here without jobs?
I was waiting for that! 1) I was welcomed into Australia as a skilled migrant. 2) It took me four years and an awful lot of form filling to obtain my visa. 3) I did not hitch a ride on a lorry or boat, I did it entirely legally. 4) If Australia didn't want me, I wouldn't be here.
I say bollocks to the lot of them just block the tunnel up.if they were decent people they wouldn't be causing shit I don't want people like that here we have our own fair share of scum in this country without adding to it
We could maybe do a scum swap with France?
Nah I don't think i'd like to be involved in scum swapping with the hairy garlic breaths.
Here's a radical suggestion for all the millions of so called displaced refugees around the world. Rather than flee their homelands in search of a better life, stand up and fight to secure and improve your own country, like we did in two world wars. Sounds harsh I know, but try telling that to the millions of our troops who have given their lives so that we could live in a peaceful, democratic nation. For too long we have encouraged people to flee their nations allowing rogue governments to take over virtually unopposed.
Right on, those women and children. Let them fight ISIS. Only, are we going to arm them cos otherwise they might struggle
We took refugees from Belguim during WWI. Should we have made them stay and fight
we took refugees from Nazi Germany and occupied countries too in World War II. Should we have sent them back to fight? Of course some of those men did join the British Army and fight. Polish and Czech flyers in the RAF being the best example.
And Britain send refugees (British Citizens) to Canada and the USA during the war too. Should have made them stay at home and fight?
And as you will know there was once a time when Britain dumped its criminals on the other side of the world.
I don't see too many women and kids jumping into lorries in Calais. I see young fit males who should be looking after their women and kids and standing up to dictatorships rather than running away. Isis is taking over large parts of Iraq simply because they are encountering very little resistance. You know as well as I do that I'm not suggesting the women and kids should have to take up arms. But what we have created is a situation where there is no incentive to fight for your own nation when the far easier option is to simply move to somewhere like the UK, France, Italy or Australia. Sooner or later people have to stand their ground and fight for their territory because the aforementioned countries simply cannot accommodate the volume of people who wish to live there.
This is becoming a joke but sums the government up, they wanna penalise and cause us Brits problem after problem by shutting the M20 while doing nothing about the cause of it all, how long will it take to get into their thick skulls by withdrawing benefits and houses for them they won't come but that's too simple Cameron would sooner stick his head up Europe's arse and spit euros than man up and sort it
I thought we passed legislation removing benefits for any immigrants coming over here without jobs?
We did. It's the age old problem of reality vs perception. The goverment can make and changes laws as much as they want, all the hordes in Calais see is Daily Mail headlines about £1 million houses being given away and the lies of the Mayor of Calais about how much better they'll be if they can get to the UK.
It is hard to change the perception they have, when the reality is there is virtually no difference from an economic or security point of view between here and France, and they are a lot lot safer trying to make a life where they currently are than risking their lives to make the crossing to here.
Here's a radical suggestion for all the millions of so called displaced refugees around the world. Rather than flee their homelands in search of a better life, stand up and fight to secure and improve your own country, like we did in two world wars. Sounds harsh I know, but try telling that to the millions of our troops who have given their lives so that we could live in a peaceful, democratic nation. For too long we have encouraged people to flee their nations allowing rogue governments to take over virtually unopposed.
Right on, those women and children. Let them fight ISIS. Only, are we going to arm them cos otherwise they might struggle
We took refugees from Belguim during WWI. Should we have made them stay and fight
we took refugees from Nazi Germany and occupied countries too in World War II. Should we have sent them back to fight? Of course some of those men did join the British Army and fight. Polish and Czech flyers in the RAF being the best example.
And Britain send refugees (British Citizens) to Canada and the USA during the war too. Should have made them stay at home and fight?
And as you will know there was once a time when Britain dumped its criminals on the other side of the world.
I don't see too many women and kids jumping into lorries in Calais. I see young fit males who should be looking after their women and kids and standing up to dictatorships rather than running away. Isis is taking over large parts of Iraq simply because they are encountering very little resistance. You know as well as I do that I'm not suggesting the women and kids should have to take up arms. But what we have created is a situation where there is no incentive to fight for your own nation when the far easier option is to simply move to somewhere like the UK, France, Italy or Australia. Sooner or later people have to stand their ground and fight for their territory because the aforementioned countries simply cannot accommodate the volume of people who wish to live there.
The Aboriginal Australians did not run away, and the British took over Australia simply because they encountered very little (or very flimsy and weak) resistance. When they stood their ground and fought for their territory the British won because they were much better situated to win a bloody fight. If you mention history as in WW2, then Australian history also provides pointers as to why we find desperate people now, it is not always possible to stand and fight back, as the Aboriginal people discovered.
Comments
Where do you get the evidence that it is my beloved Labour party? I wrote that I voted for my candidate Heidi Alexander when I went and met all of the candidates in Lewisham East, I voted for her because of my impression of her rather than because she was Labour, which I wrote about at the time of the general election.
I have assumed the increase of people coming here was a factor of being in the European community, not because Labour or anybody else had opened doors. if you want to make this party political didn't David Cameron promise to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands per year at the 2010 Election, and then fail to achieve that number?
I have not so much suggested these are asylum seekers, but desperate people some criminally manipulated, some economically motivated, and some with a humanitarian imperative such as seeking asylum so you might like to read my post again on that one.
I have even suggested that the issue is wider than only Europe by reference to Australia and in the past the Vietnamese boat people.
You have asked me how in my Utopia when is enough enough? Firstly I am flattered that you think I have some kind of vision, even a Utopian, challenging, and possibly impractical vision, as I would not like to be akin to those who hunker down and say 'not my problem'. However to answer your question I think it is a global crisis, and 'enough' may well be about the population of the entire planet when balanced against it's resources.
Of course in order to tackle a global problem would require folk to be a little bit less selfish, and to make some sacrifices and I don't hold out much hope that such an attitude would prevail.
There is no need for them to try and cross into the UK other than for a lifestyle choice.
Find it hard to have any sympathy for those injured attempting to get through the tunnel.
These are not genuine refugees they are chancers and criminals
We took refugees from Belguim during WWI. Should we have made them stay and fight
we took refugees from Nazi Germany and occupied countries too in World War II. Should we have sent them back to fight? Of course some of those men did join the British Army and fight. Polish and Czech flyers in the RAF being the best example.
And Britain send refugees (British Citizens) to Canada and the USA during the war too. Should have made them stay at home and fight?
And as you will know there was once a time when Britain dumped its criminals on the other side of the world.
http://www.skwirk.com/p-c_s-56_u-415_t-1040_c-4006/british-aboriginal-relations-1788-1820/qld/sose-history/first-australians-and-the-european-arrivals/settlement-1788-1850
Comparing what is going now to the state of things whilst we were living in a warzone in Britain is a ridiculous comparison.
1) I was welcomed into Australia as a skilled migrant.
2) It took me four years and an awful lot of form filling to obtain my visa.
3) I did not hitch a ride on a lorry or boat, I did it entirely legally.
4) If Australia didn't want me, I wouldn't be here.
As said above it becomes a life style choice.
If they had all gone to Italy/Greece and asked for asylum and the those two counties had been swamped --it would be a legit argument that the UK should do more. Plenty of space in Wales and Scotland as an example.
If this lot get through there will be another ten thousand next month, something radical needs to be done and soon.
I agree evoking WW1 and WW2 is a ridiculous comparison which is why I responed
It was Queensland Addick's post which explicitly mentions "two world wars"
And aren't SOME of the refugees living in a "warzone" right now.
I didn't say "let them all in". I made no comment about whether they should be allowed in the country
It's black market jobs, that they will be after & The French say we aren't doing enough to stop this and discourage it.
It is hard to change the perception they have, when the reality is there is virtually no difference from an economic or security point of view between here and France, and they are a lot lot safer trying to make a life where they currently are than risking their lives to make the crossing to here.