Incidentally, I wonder what peoples views are on one of the most widely practiced past times across all walks of life....... fishing?
Hooking a barbed wire hook through a fishes mouth and pulling it from the river is pretty barbaric too - but we never hear anything like as much about it. Not every fish is put back so that cant be the reason.
As I have said before, I am not pro or against tbh with either - but do wonder how much of it is class war rather than animal rights.
I was thinking about this too. Hunting is still a widely practiced tradition across the country, despite what townies believe. Deer, fish, hares, game birds etc. Even badgers when the Government requires it.
The main differences between fox hunting and the rest of them is instead of one man versus one animal, it is dozens of men and hounds versus one animal, so the ratio of sport to suffering is fairer, and that fox hunters like to dress up like posh people when they do it. I would wager if there wasn't so much pomp and circumstance surrounding fox hunting then it would never have gathered as much vitriol from outsiders, considering how every other form of hunting in the UK seems to get a free pass.
Incidentally, I wonder what peoples views are on one of the most widely practiced past times across all walks of life....... fishing?
Hooking a barbed wire hook through a fishes mouth and pulling it from the river is pretty barbaric too - but we never hear anything like as much about it. Not every fish is put back so that cant be the reason.
As I have said before, I am not pro or against tbh with either - but do wonder how much of it is class war rather than animal rights.
I was thinking about this too. Hunting is still a widely practiced tradition across the country, despite what townies believe. Deer, fish, hares, game birds etc. Even badgers when the Government requires it.
The main differences between fox hunting and the rest of them is instead of one man versus one animal, it is dozens of men and hounds versus one animal, so the ratio of sport to suffering is fairer, and that fox hunters like to dress up like posh people when they do it. I would wager if there wasn't so much pomp and circumstance surrounding fox hunting then it would never have gathered as much vitriol from outsiders, considering how every other form of hunting in the UK seems to get a free pass.
I'm not sure how I feel about someone wilfully disrupting the communication between a stranger and his dog when they are not breaking the law. You wouldn't get away with distracting a stranger's child away from a park even if your intentions were not evil.
Don't sing from annakisseds hymn sheet regarding horse racing but am very much in agreement with him/her on fox hunting. The 'class' issue has me asking myself if it's not a class thing, why aren't there dog fighting saboteurs. Or perhaps there is and I am unaware of them.
Don't sing from annakisseds hymn sheet regarding horse racing but am very much in agreement with him/her on fox hunting. The 'class' issue has me asking myself if it's not a class thing, why aren't there dog fighting saboteurs. Or perhaps there is and I am unaware of them.
Some of the comments on here are laughable though. Particularly about supporters and followers of fox hunting are only doing it to doff their cap to their lords and betters. I know enough people who follow hunts to know this is utter nonsense.
As I said before I dislike fox hunting but I don't think that is a good enough reason to ban it outright (although I do agree with the ban on letting dogs kill the fox, even though this law is largely unenforceable).
Incidentally, I wonder what peoples views are on one of the most widely practiced past times across all walks of life....... fishing?
Hooking a barbed wire hook through a fishes mouth and pulling it from the river is pretty barbaric too - but we never hear anything like as much about it. Not every fish is put back so that cant be the reason.
As I have said before, I am not pro or against tbh with either - but do wonder how much of it is class war rather than animal rights.
I guess fishing is seen as more humane than having a fox ripped limb from limb by a pack of dogs.
There's also the truth that human regularly eat fish so fishing can be justified from that perspective whereas fox isn't a particaurly common dish in this country.
Not sure fox hunting and fishing are particularly comparable IMHO other than both involve the death of animal (and I don't fish).
Don't sing from annakisseds hymn sheet regarding horse racing but am very much in agreement with him/her on fox hunting. The 'class' issue has me asking myself if it's not a class thing, why aren't there dog fighting saboteurs. Or perhaps there is and I am unaware of them.
Dog fighting is already illegal. As (rightly) are other traditionally "working class" bloodsports. There is an argument that when the powers that be (lords and masters) saw fit to ban bear and badger baiting, cock and dog fighting e.t.c, whilst leaving fox hunting and hare coursing e.t.c alone, it was they who made it all about class, not us...
In my case it is not about class at all, it is about cruelty. I have no problem with foxes being shot to protect land and animals. I have no problem with expensive grouse or deer shoots, I have no problem with the poshest man in the land dressing up and going drag hunting, fill your boots your lordship. I just have a problem with anyone, of any class who takes pleasure out of such a barbaric pastime. I know very few people who would argue, but then I choose my friends carefully (sometimes).
Just to clarify, the pest control justification used by the hunts is bogus. I live in a rural market town in North Yorkshire and near to me, sixteen cubs were found in a barn after a tip off. These cubs hadn't been rescued or being rehabilitated, they were to be used as easy prey. Also the economy issue is slightly bogus. Very few people depend on the hunt for a living and the sadlers and equestrian shops still have enough trade without the hunting ban threatening their livliehood. There are two in my small town so things can't be that tight for them.
Don't sing from annakisseds hymn sheet regarding horse racing but am very much in agreement with him/her on fox hunting. The 'class' issue has me asking myself if it's not a class thing, why aren't there dog fighting saboteurs. Or perhaps there is and I am unaware of them.
Dog fighting is already illegal. As (rightly) are other traditionally "working class" bloodsports. There is an argument that when the powers that be (lords and masters) saw fit to ban bear and badger baiting, cock and dog fighting e.t.c, whilst leaving fox hunting and hare coursing e.t.c alone, it was they who made it all about class, not us...
In my case it is not about class at all, it is about cruelty. I have no problem with foxes being shot to protect land and animals. I have no problem with expensive grouse or deer shoots, I have no problem with the poshest man in the land dressing up and going drag hunting, fill your boots your lordship. I just have a problem with anyone, of any class who takes pleasure out of such a barbaric pastime. I know very few people who would argue, but then I choose my friends carefully (sometimes).
The packs of dogs seem to be quite large, twenty or thirty of them I would guess. So how do these dogs get the gig, and what happens to those that don't pass muster, and what happens when they get a bit old and creaky?
The packs of dogs seem to be quite large, twenty or thirty of them I would guess. So how do these dogs get the gig, and what happens to those that don't pass muster, and what happens when they get a bit old and creaky?
They dress them up as foxes and let the others chase them.
Twice a year a hunt comes up my lane where the local farmer allows them to ride across his land further up the lane. They stop by my house to get across a cattle grid and the hounds and horses come on to my land. If I'm at home they certainly live to regret the trespass!!
Ignoring the obvious trolling on the thread, I fail to see any argument in favour of fox hunting that holds water. Yes, foxes are a pain in the arse when their numbers are allowed to grow without being kept under control. I'm in favour of culls where necessary, just as I would be in favour of culls of any animal to control population for any reason. I certainly see farmers' point about foxes being a pest that needs controlling (far more than their more spurious assertion that regular badger culls are necessary). However, anyone who doesn't think allowing a pack of dogs to chase a wild animal, corner it, then rip it to bits in the name of tradition isn't cruel is either deluding themselves, or a complete fucking idiot
It's the same as bullfighting, cockfighting, dogfighting or any other pasttime where animals are hurt, maimed and killed for the amusement of human onlookers - is totally barbaric and should have gone the way of other bloodsports years ago
It's also an extremely convenient distraction for people to focus on, rather than the slightly more pressing issues facing the country in the next few months
Tell you what - I am reading this book to my youngest at bedtime at the moment. Genuinely making me look at everything in a whole new light! It is bloody topical at the moment.
It isn't about class, but it has been allowed to go on as long as it has because it has the support of the elite. Dog fighting is illegal and is working class, and I find that awful. Pets are taken and used as bait dogs as it still goes on though. As a society, we need to stand up for the rights of animals, whether they are being abused by the working classes or upper classes, it makes no difference. Fox hunts still kill foxes and dog fights still go on. Rather than make fox hunting legal, we have to police harder to stop this affront occuring.
work with a guy that's ex rentokil, now retraining with us and i asked him in conversation this morning about what is done for them, he said that inner city foxes that are removed are killed with a silent shot gun type gun, as if they were to be rehomed in the countryside being city foxes they wouldnt survive as they feed off scraps and wouldnt know how to hunt to eat etc.
The packs of dogs seem to be quite large, twenty or thirty of them I would guess. So how do these dogs get the gig, and what happens to those that don't pass muster, and what happens when they get a bit old and creaky?
The packs of dogs seem to be quite large, twenty or thirty of them I would guess. So how do these dogs get the gig, and what happens to those that don't pass muster, and what happens when they get a bit old and creaky?
Comments
The main differences between fox hunting and the rest of them is instead of one man versus one animal, it is dozens of men and hounds versus one animal, so the ratio of sport to suffering is fairer, and that fox hunters like to dress up like posh people when they do it. I would wager if there wasn't so much pomp and circumstance surrounding fox hunting then it would never have gathered as much vitriol from outsiders, considering how every other form of hunting in the UK seems to get a free pass.
The 'class' issue has me asking myself if it's not a class thing, why aren't there dog fighting saboteurs. Or perhaps there is and I am unaware of them.
As I said before I dislike fox hunting but I don't think that is a good enough reason to ban it outright (although I do agree with the ban on letting dogs kill the fox, even though this law is largely unenforceable).
There's also the truth that human regularly eat fish so fishing can be justified from that perspective whereas fox isn't a particaurly common dish in this country.
Not sure fox hunting and fishing are particularly comparable IMHO other than both involve the death of animal (and I don't fish).
In my case it is not about class at all, it is about cruelty. I have no problem with foxes being shot to protect land and animals. I have no problem with expensive grouse or deer shoots, I have no problem with the poshest man in the land dressing up and going drag hunting, fill your boots your lordship. I just have a problem with anyone, of any class who takes pleasure out of such a barbaric pastime. I know very few people who would argue, but then I choose my friends carefully (sometimes).
So how do these dogs get the gig, and what happens to those that don't pass muster, and what happens when they get a bit old and creaky?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/fox-cubs-hunting-hounds-kennels-train-kill-dead-hertfordshire-a7097321.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thousands-healthy-foxhounds---including-6061265
Twice a year a hunt comes up my lane where the local farmer allows them to ride across his land further up the lane. They stop by my house to get across a cattle grid and the hounds and horses come on to my land. If I'm at home they certainly live to regret the trespass!!
It's the same as bullfighting, cockfighting, dogfighting or any other pasttime where animals are hurt, maimed and killed for the amusement of human onlookers - is totally barbaric and should have gone the way of other bloodsports years ago
It's also an extremely convenient distraction for people to focus on, rather than the slightly more pressing issues facing the country in the next few months