Um how about trying to win both matches. It's not an either or.
No you are right. Luzon is the first manager ever with a thin squad in the history of the game to put in place priority fixtures. What is he thinking.
Yes the latest in a long line of idiots. If there is a need to prioritise for two games in four days then something is majorly wrong
Well yes, injuries and the effect its having on our thin squad.
And that is the real problem. So why have we got such a thin squad again?
Exactly......... Henry. I am afraid I have always been a 'cup man' do not buy this resting players stuff, certainly no guarantee at this stage of the season that really is a valid enough reason. The squad depth looks very 'thin' and I assume that the red card means a suspension for how long!..... If you were going to bring on Watt and JBG why wait till you are 2-0 down. Stand by your decision..... or go for it, from the start. Hopefully Guy is on the phone today/tommorow phoning around for 'cover' if he has not been already.
Do you think he does that, particularly having apparently limited English and a very limited history with other managers? I doubt it, which may be part of the problem?
I thought we had this 'scouting network' What is Phil Chapple doing these days?. Has every manager not had to deal with this 'issue' at one time or another. remind me again of how many foreign managers there are in the top division..... on second thoughts just name the British...........
Do you think Phil Chapple scouted the summer signings, because that's not what the publicity appeared to suggest? I have no idea how we go about making loan signings but I am sceptical it involves Guy Luzon ringing around other managers / head coaches, which is what you seemed to be be suggesting.
Both Tony Watt and Johann Should have started the 2nd half. (still 0-0) But we wouldn't have defended the corners any better. (that's where we miss Simon)
Tony ,i'm convinced would of had the beating of Hangeland on the desk.
A closer 3-2 finish maybe, but they had more gears to go up.
Whatever the result or team, we were never going to win the cup and whilst it would be great to beat the Nigels, i think it would be more beneficial to improve our league form and making it much steadier to avoid any threat of being dragged into a relegation scrap! Guy Luzon is clearly a passionate man and i'm quite sure that the decision to send a weakened team into a derby match wasn't taken lightly and probably p***ed him off as well, that said there strongest 11 against ours and they still win hands down. I am gutted obviously but we need to think long term not short term.
1 pen to us should have been given, before the 2 for them shouldnt have been. Imagine we score that penalty, where the match could have gone from there. I'm not disagreeing that some of our players weren't up to scratch today, but like I said a win against Palace does nothing for our league position, but we get clouded by the local derby. If today was against West Brom or Swansea, no-one would have given much of a shit, but because its Palace, everyone's overreacting to the loss. We lost to a team in the league above us, away from home, with a dodgy ref and half our team missing through injury.
This makes it worse as it suggests this game was winnable with a stronger side.
Given some of the Player Marks awarded after the Blackburn game, you might be forgiven for thinking that some of our four changes last night were due to players being dropped rather than rested.
Watt up front and JBG on the wing might have given us an outlet, instead of pumping it up to youngsters who looked like they were surprised to be anywhere near the ball on the odd occasion it did go within their vicinity. That's probably what pushed me over the edge. Starting with those guys was one thing, having no game plan (or at least, not a realistic one) to at least get into the game was another.
Watt can't hit a barn door at the moment (and that's only if he gets a shot away!), so I don't think that'd have changed anything.
Even less likely to hit a barn door sitting on the bench
01 Begovic 02 Ivanovic 26 Terry Booked 24 Cahill 06 Baba 12 Mikel Booked 36 Loftus-Cheek (Matic - 72' ) 07 Ramires 16 Nunes do Nascimento (Pedro - 70' ) 18 Remy 09 Falcao
Just to check, this is a parody post right?
Not at all - was showing that these clubs, who presumably have got bigger fish to fry, still put out strong teams. All those teams woudl say 'the elague is more important'
I can understand arsenal and Spurs putting out strong teams - they were playing their local rivals and the fans would be upset if they didn't - oh hold on...
As Henry's handy graph shows, these teams in fact made lots of changes. Fortunately for them they are in the position where they just have very strong squads. We 'rested'/'changed' four players from our very weak thin squad and the reaction from some fans just, for myself at least, is baffling.
Um how about trying to win both matches. It's not an either or.
No you are right. Luzon is the first manager ever with a thin squad in the history of the game to put in place priority fixtures. What is he thinking.
Yes the latest in a long line of idiots. If there is a need to prioritise for two games in four days then something is majorly wrong
Well yes, injuries and the effect its having on our thin squad.
And that is the real problem. So why have we got such a thin squad again?
Exactly......... Henry. I am afraid I have always been a 'cup man' do not buy this resting players stuff, certainly no guarantee at this stage of the season that really is a valid enough reason. The squad depth looks very 'thin' and I assume that the red card means a suspension for how long!..... If you were going to bring on Watt and JBG why wait till you are 2-0 down. Stand by your decision..... or go for it, from the start. Hopefully Guy is on the phone today/tommorow phoning around for 'cover' if he has not been already.
Do you think he does that, particularly having apparently limited English and a very limited history with other managers? I doubt it, which may be part of the problem?
I thought we had this 'scouting network' What is Phil Chapple doing these days?. Has every manager not had to deal with this 'issue' at one time or another. remind me again of how many foreign managers there are in the top division..... on second thoughts just name the British...........
Do you think Phil Chapple scouted the summer signings, because that's not what the publicity appeared to suggest? I have no idea how we go about making loan signings but I am sceptical it involves Guy Luzon ringing around other managers / head coaches, which is what you seemed to be be suggesting.
Well the suggestion was that the 'scouting network' , I just enquired what was he doing these days, because I got the impression he could have helped/assisted with the British club scene and players, if there were language and other cultural difficulties, as you yourself suggest. Sorry do not know the procedure at CAFC, but I got the impression that most managers worked with there scouting network to identify players, and I assumed that Phil would have been consulted. If I am wrong I stand corrected. My main point was agreeing with Henry and the thinness of the squad. Seemed pretty weak to me last night.
While that post does show that we were hardly the worst offenders last night personally i don't care if every single other team changed their entire eleven, i still expected us to play our best team against a rival, sure we might still have lost but Shrewsbury had a good go at them, Carlisle almost knocked out Liverpool last night so i don't understand why some fans are convinced that we could never compete with Palace.
One thing that had really endeared me to Luzon was his passion, the way he seemed to know how to say what fans want to hear, i thought he understood us fans.
I can only speak for myself but that has gone out the window now & i sure i am not the only one, so he really does need to win Saturday, if we don't leave Wales with a convincing display & three points, then it is going to take a lot of hard work to win over fans again after he worked so hard to win us over last season.
We rested our 4 best players (with exception of Solly) against one of our main rivals. Don't care what other teams do/did and the stats above don't show the quality of the players rested by other teams or whether they had in fact rested their players in the previous game so they could be full strength for the cup. They also don't show the strength in depth of others squads.
Anyway, on to good management and team harmony, I bet Watt, JBG, Bauer and Kashi were delighted to be rested for a game where they could have show cased their talent v PL opposition with TV cameras so they can play away at Cardiff, keeping them happy and motivated.
Nobody amongst the owners,managers or players gives a toss about Crystal Palace or what we think about the game. The only thing that would matter to any of them is if we stopped paying their wages. So moaning is a complete waste of time and energy-unless you enjoy it.
Supporters moan that RD is not spending enough. KM says we are over budget, who sets the budget, RD. We would probably all like RD to spend more, but who was the last owner/chairman, who spent over the top, Richard Murray. I am not criticising him, he just wanted to keep us in the premier league, didn't we all want that? Unfortunately, he gave it to Dowie to waste, and it is no good saying he should not have let Dowie buy the players he did, if he trusts him to be manager, he has to go along with his judgement of players. We are still suffering for Murray's mistake in over spending, and personally, I do not want RD to make the same mistake, just to buy the extra 1 or 2 players, or is it 3 or 4, or as someone said 6 or 7. I do not want us to be a mid championship team, but rather that than spend a fortune, blow up again, and get relegated again. I know there will be a lot who disagrees, all we can do is wait and see where RD takes us, as long as it is not relegation.
Supporters moan that RD is not spending enough. KM says we are over budget, who sets the budget, RD. We would probably all like RD to spend more, but who was the last owner/chairman, who spent over the top, Richard Murray. I am not criticising him, he just wanted to keep us in the premier league, didn't we all want that? Unfortunately, he gave it to Dowie to waste, and it is no good saying he should not have let Dowie buy the players he did, if he trusts him to be manager, he has to go along with his judgement of players. We are still suffering for Murray's mistake in over spending, and personally, I do not want RD to make the same mistake, just to buy the extra 1 or 2 players, or is it 3 or 4, or as someone said 6 or 7. I do not want us to be a mid championship team, but rather that than spend a fortune, blow up again, and get relegated again. I know there will be a lot who disagrees, all we can do is wait and see where RD takes us, as long as it is not relegation.
At the moment he is taking us nowhere,we are lower in the league than before he took over.
Supporters moan that RD is not spending enough. KM says we are over budget, who sets the budget, RD. We would probably all like RD to spend more, but who was the last owner/chairman, who spent over the top, Richard Murray. I am not criticising him, he just wanted to keep us in the premier league, didn't we all want that? Unfortunately, he gave it to Dowie to waste, and it is no good saying he should not have let Dowie buy the players he did, if he trusts him to be manager, he has to go along with his judgement of players. We are still suffering for Murray's mistake in over spending, and personally, I do not want RD to make the same mistake, just to buy the extra 1 or 2 players, or is it 3 or 4, or as someone said 6 or 7. I do not want us to be a mid championship team, but rather that than spend a fortune, blow up again, and get relegated again. I know there will be a lot who disagrees, all we can do is wait and see where RD takes us, as long as it is not relegation.
At the moment he is taking us nowhere,we are lower in the league than before he took over.
We are 13th now. so after going 3 months without a win, were we still in the top half of the table ?
Supporters moan that RD is not spending enough. KM says we are over budget, who sets the budget, RD. We would probably all like RD to spend more, but who was the last owner/chairman, who spent over the top, Richard Murray. I am not criticising him, he just wanted to keep us in the premier league, didn't we all want that? Unfortunately, he gave it to Dowie to waste, and it is no good saying he should not have let Dowie buy the players he did, if he trusts him to be manager, he has to go along with his judgement of players. We are still suffering for Murray's mistake in over spending, and personally, I do not want RD to make the same mistake, just to buy the extra 1 or 2 players, or is it 3 or 4, or as someone said 6 or 7. I do not want us to be a mid championship team, but rather that than spend a fortune, blow up again, and get relegated again. I know there will be a lot who disagrees, all we can do is wait and see where RD takes us, as long as it is not relegation.
At the moment he is taking us nowhere,we are lower in the league than before he took over.
We are 13th now. so after going 3 months without a win, were we still in the top half of the table ?
RD has not managed to get us as high as the 9th we finished the season before he took over. He is no improvement on the previous lot,despite getting through 4 managers so far.
Supporters moan that RD is not spending enough. KM says we are over budget, who sets the budget, RD. We would probably all like RD to spend more, but who was the last owner/chairman, who spent over the top, Richard Murray. I am not criticising him, he just wanted to keep us in the premier league, didn't we all want that? Unfortunately, he gave it to Dowie to waste, and it is no good saying he should not have let Dowie buy the players he did, if he trusts him to be manager, he has to go along with his judgement of players. We are still suffering for Murray's mistake in over spending, and personally, I do not want RD to make the same mistake, just to buy the extra 1 or 2 players, or is it 3 or 4, or as someone said 6 or 7. I do not want us to be a mid championship team, but rather that than spend a fortune, blow up again, and get relegated again. I know there will be a lot who disagrees, all we can do is wait and see where RD takes us, as long as it is not relegation.
At the moment he is taking us nowhere,we are lower in the league than before he took over.
We are 13th now. so after going 3 months without a win, were we still in the top half of the table ?
RD has not managed to get us as high as the 9th we finished the season before he took over. He is no improvement on the previous lot,despite getting through 4 managers so far.
The difference being that although we have remained a midtable side (9th, 11th, 14th...it doesn't really matter) he has also stabilised the club as a whole.
That doesn't cut it for me Guy. I was completely fucked off when I heard the team and am still really Fucking irritated by it. It was a derby game and we all wanted a performance. Might of even got our season back on track. Totally unacceptable as far as I am concerned. Not happy about it at all. How can he expect Ahearne Grant to hold he ball up on his own? Against Prem opposition the ball was always gonna come Back to quickly and we were in a hiding to nothing from the off. Not amused at all it was so fucking obvious what was going to happen.
Is there any scope for managers to collude on team selection prior to announcing their line-ups?
It's like a footballing form of the so-called Prisoners Dilemma (although it was probably more relevant where two similarly matched sides like Spurs and Arsenal square up, and somewhat oddly both played similarly weakened sides).
Unilaterally select a weakened side and you risk being humiliated by the opposition if they pick a strong side.
Unilaterally select a strong side and you risk injuries to your key players unnecessarily if the opposition pick a weakended side.
Collude pre-match and both managers can agree to play weakened sides ensuring a fair contest with no injury risk to either side's key players......
Without his investment we'd have gone under. You could argue others may have come along, but as I understand it, the previous regime had literally ran out of money/didn't want to fund us anymore (correct me if I'm wrong). I've actually been thinking over the last few days why has it give so badly over the last 2 weeks?
As individuals, Solly, Bauer, Diarra, JBG, Kashi, Cousins and Watt I would say are our best players (Henderson included too when fit). I appreciate that's only 7 players, and for me it's too early to call Mak (although he's looked good and contributed with assists and a goal). Bergdich I thought looked okay against QPR when he came on, but I think his gait and stance don't make him an effective winger, perhaps he is best at left back. The jury's out for me on Ba. Fox I think is getting better, he just has no outlet in front of him and can't do what Wiggins did at his peak.
Pope is giving us mixed games, some great saves, but a bad error for the Huddersfield goal etc. You would've thought those 7, plus the others could still compete, but we've lost confidence, and are missing LEADERSHIP. Solly's not a captain at all. It has to be Bauer for me. I know injuries are relevant, I'm not disputing that. It's just the team that beat QPR and Hull aren't/weren't drastically different to those that lost to Wolves, H'field, B'burn and drew with Rotherham.
Supporters moan that RD is not spending enough. KM says we are over budget, who sets the budget, RD. We would probably all like RD to spend more, but who was the last owner/chairman, who spent over the top, Richard Murray. I am not criticising him, he just wanted to keep us in the premier league, didn't we all want that? Unfortunately, he gave it to Dowie to waste, and it is no good saying he should not have let Dowie buy the players he did, if he trusts him to be manager, he has to go along with his judgement of players. We are still suffering for Murray's mistake in over spending, and personally, I do not want RD to make the same mistake, just to buy the extra 1 or 2 players, or is it 3 or 4, or as someone said 6 or 7. I do not want us to be a mid championship team, but rather that than spend a fortune, blow up again, and get relegated again. I know there will be a lot who disagrees, all we can do is wait and see where RD takes us, as long as it is not relegation.
The big difference is that Richard Murray did not have the resources to outspend the budget, which potentially put the club at risk (not a criticism, I'm making a different point). RD's budget by contrast is well within his means. He is the main creditor, racking up interest to himself. The club isn't going bust because RD overspends his budget. It's just a line in the sand, put there by RD. He has choices.
The strange thing is that even if he wound the club up himself he'd have pay out the former directors and Murray before he had any call on the assets.
We all know what the weaknesses in our squad are, we've gone over them time and time again, but for me Hendo out from the start of the season has been a huge huge miss, and no I'm not trying to have a dig at Nick Pope.
A 100% Hendo is absolutely fundamental to our team and where we finish this season, we still don't know when he's going to be ready for first team action, and whether he'll break down when he does come back.
I know there's a long time to go until the transfer window, but I really hope we're well into planning possible recruits for it ,rather than panic, & get make do and mend signings.
Although the squad is a couple of players short I'm more concerned about the number of injuries we've picked up so early in the season.
The first team squad was a similar size when we won League One (taking away the senior players that didn't start a league game in Euell, Alonso and Doherty). That year didn't have proper cover for Solly for the whole season, we covered Jackson with loans and didn't bring in Haynes as an alternative to BWP until January.
Maybe it's our choices of player that is part of the problem and maybe we didn't get the squad as fit as we should have done during pre-season. The way it's going we need 6/7 strikers, that shouldn't be the case.
Without his investment we'd have gone under. You could argue others may have come along, but as I understand it, the previous regime had literally ran out of money/didn't want to fund us anymore (correct me if I'm wrong). I've actually been thinking over the last few days why has it give so badly over the last 2 weeks?
As individuals, Solly, Bauer, Diarra, JBG, Kashi, Cousins and Watt I would say are our best players (Henderson included too when fit). I appreciate that's only 7 players, and for me it's too early to call Mak (although he's looked good and contributed with assists and a goal). Bergdich I thought looked okay against QPR when he came on, but I think his gait and stance don't make him an effective winger, perhaps he is best at left back. The jury's out for me on Ba. Fox I think is getting better, he just has no outlet in front of him and can't do what Wiggins did at his peak.
Pope is giving us mixed games, some great saves, but a bad error for the Huddersfield goal etc. You would've thought those 7, plus the others could still compete, but we've lost confidence, and are missing LEADERSHIP. Solly's not a captain at all. It has to be Bauer for me. I know injuries are relevant, I'm not disputing that. It's just the team that beat QPR and Hull aren't/weren't drastically different to those that lost to Wolves, H'field, B'burn and drew with Rotherham.
I agree with most of what you say except for the captain change. I do not think to remove Solly from captain at this stage would be wise unless he asks to be relieved of the duty. I think he only got the armband while JJ was injured, and now it looks like JJ will probably not play any major part for us again, it does put the position of captain in an awkward mess, but with RD's policy of player change, who's to say which player will still be here at the end of the season, (apart from Solly, who because of his recurring injury will probably never be sold). Many players may have long contracts, but how many of us believe they will all see out their contracts
Can we call cup matches Charlton XI games in the future, like some pre-season friendlies, and put Jason Euell in charge? We can Play the full U21 team against the likes of Dagenham, get knocked out in the first round and save our precious first team players having to play three games in a week, in case they get tired for the third game. Bless them.
Can we call cup matches Charlton XI games in the future, like some pre-season friendlies, and put Jason Euell in charge? We can Play the full U21 team against the likes of Dagenham, get knocked out in the first round and save our precious first team players having to play three games in a week, in case they get tired for the third game. Bless them.
As we proved against Gllingham in the Kent final last season we wouldn't lose against the likes of Dagenham even with their 1st team players. Not defending Tony Watt and JBG not being picked but Ipswich made 11 changes.
Can we call cup matches Charlton XI games in the future, like some pre-season friendlies, and put Jason Euell in charge? We can Play the full U21 team against the likes of Dagenham, get knocked out in the first round and save our precious first team players having to play three games in a week, in case they get tired for the third game. Bless them.
As we proved against Gllingham in the Kent final last season we wouldn't lose against the likes of Dagenham even with their 1st team players. Not defending Tony Watt and JBG not being picked but Ipswich made 11 changes.
Ipswich though got stuffed the same as us, having taken 5k fans to Old Trafford. Saw loads of moaning from them about that policy on Twitter
Can we call cup matches Charlton XI games in the future, like some pre-season friendlies, and put Jason Euell in charge? We can Play the full U21 team against the likes of Dagenham, get knocked out in the first round and save our precious first team players having to play three games in a week, in case they get tired for the third game. Bless them.
As we proved against Gllingham in the Kent final last season we wouldn't lose against the likes of Dagenham even with their 1st team players. Not defending Tony Watt and JBG not being picked but Ipswich made 11 changes.
Ipswich though got stuffed the same as us, having taken 5k fans to Old Trafford. Saw loads of moaning from them about that policy on Twitter
They also have a larger squad, weren't playing their rivals and do seem to have something to play for this season.
Comments
So only 3 teams made less changes than CAFC .
and two of those lost.
Both Tony Watt and Johann Should have started the 2nd half. (still 0-0)
But we wouldn't have defended the corners any better. (that's where we miss Simon)
Tony ,i'm convinced would of had the beating of Hangeland on the desk.
A closer 3-2 finish maybe, but they had more gears to go up.
Guy Luzon is clearly a passionate man and i'm quite sure that the decision to send a weakened team into a derby match wasn't taken lightly and probably p***ed him off as well, that said there strongest 11 against ours and they still win hands down.
I am gutted obviously but we need to think long term not short term.
Seemed pretty weak to me last night.
One thing that had really endeared me to Luzon was his passion, the way he seemed to know how to say what fans want to hear, i thought he understood us fans.
I can only speak for myself but that has gone out the window now & i sure i am not the only one, so he really does need to win Saturday, if we don't leave Wales with a convincing display & three points, then it is going to take a lot of hard work to win over fans again after he worked so hard to win us over last season.
Anyway, on to good management and team harmony, I bet Watt, JBG, Bauer and Kashi were delighted to be rested for a game where they could have show cased their talent v PL opposition with TV cameras so they can play away at Cardiff, keeping them happy and motivated.
The only thing that would matter to any of them is if we stopped paying their wages. So moaning is a complete
waste of time and energy-unless you enjoy it.
so after going 3 months without a win, were we still in the top half of the table ?
It's like a footballing form of the so-called Prisoners Dilemma (although it was probably more relevant where two similarly matched sides like Spurs and Arsenal square up, and somewhat oddly both played similarly weakened sides).
Unilaterally select a weakened side and you risk being humiliated by the opposition if they pick a strong side.
Unilaterally select a strong side and you risk injuries to your key players unnecessarily if the opposition pick a weakended side.
Collude pre-match and both managers can agree to play weakened sides ensuring a fair contest with no injury risk to either side's key players......
As individuals, Solly, Bauer, Diarra, JBG, Kashi, Cousins and Watt I would say are our best players (Henderson included too when fit). I appreciate that's only 7 players, and for me it's too early to call Mak (although he's looked good and contributed with assists and a goal). Bergdich I thought looked okay against QPR when he came on, but I think his gait and stance don't make him an effective winger, perhaps he is best at left back. The jury's out for me on Ba. Fox I think is getting better, he just has no outlet in front of him and can't do what Wiggins did at his peak.
Pope is giving us mixed games, some great saves, but a bad error for the Huddersfield goal etc. You would've thought those 7, plus the others could still compete, but we've lost confidence, and are missing LEADERSHIP. Solly's not a captain at all. It has to be Bauer for me. I know injuries are relevant, I'm not disputing that. It's just the team that beat QPR and Hull aren't/weren't drastically different to those that lost to Wolves, H'field, B'burn and drew with Rotherham.
The strange thing is that even if he wound the club up himself he'd have pay out the former directors and Murray before he had any call on the assets.
A 100% Hendo is absolutely fundamental to our team and where we finish this season, we still don't know when he's going to be ready for first team action, and whether he'll break down when he does come back.
I know there's a long time to go until the transfer window, but I really hope we're well into planning possible recruits for it ,rather than panic, & get make do and mend signings.
The first team squad was a similar size when we won League One (taking away the senior players that didn't start a league game in Euell, Alonso and Doherty). That year didn't have proper cover for Solly for the whole season, we covered Jackson with loans and didn't bring in Haynes as an alternative to BWP until January.
Maybe it's our choices of player that is part of the problem and maybe we didn't get the squad as fit as we should have done during pre-season. The way it's going we need 6/7 strikers, that shouldn't be the case.
Not defending Tony Watt and JBG not being picked but Ipswich made 11 changes.