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Another Shooting In America?

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  • It’s shocking and awful but it’s going to never stop repeating. RIP
    I've said it before (somewhere on this thread) but Sandy Hook should've been the tipping point. When nothing changed after that it was pretty obvious that nothing ever will.

    On the day of that shooting Obama said "we're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics."

    That was in 2012. What has changed since? The 2 deadliest ever mass shootings in the US happened since then.
  • BBC News - Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter over shooting
  • Chizz said:
    BBC News - Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter over shooting
    Not surprised. Ultimately he did aim a loaded weapon at someone and it was him who pulled the trigger. He may very well not be found guilty but I can't argue with the case being bought to court.
  • edited January 2023
    I know it's not funny but why do I hear 

    "Another Shootin in America (huh)
    Eye to eye, station to station
    Another Shootin in America
    Hand in hand, across the nation
    Another Shootin in America"

    When I read this thread title?
  • I have t seen the news yet, but my wife informs me there's been another college shooting, 13 dead? Why, why, why ,and when will this country learn, I know it's in their constitution, but can't they change it? This is insane.
    What exactly iS "in their constitution"? The right to go and shoot a dozen school children? I dont think that IS in the constitution. The right to bear arms and defend oneself and ones family IS in the Constitution..And thank God for that! When the Antifa rioters come to YOUR town and smash everything up, destroy and loot and break down your door and threaten your family  what are you going to do ~ tickle them to death?! 
    The constitution was written in the days when the  available firearm was a musket. America is still pretty backward, and it’ll be decades before they grow out of their infantile gun fetish. 
    And when people start trying to blame ‘Antifa rioters’ for everything it’s time for the thread to be moved to the House of Commoners?
  • thenewbie said:
    Chizz said:
    BBC News - Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter over shooting
    Not surprised. Ultimately he did aim a loaded weapon at someone and it was him who pulled the trigger. He may very well not be found guilty but I can't argue with the case being bought to court.
    If he was told the weapon was safe then he'll be found not guilty. The gun nuts will scream that he should have checked himself, but if an actor is handed a prop and told it's safe to operate, it's not their job to be an expert in that prop, just to use it as directed by the safety crew. Would be absolutely crazy to hand a gun to an actor, tell them to fire it directly at the camera and be happy to give the actor the sole determination on whether it is safe to do so or not.
    True, and I agree he'll use that defence, as he should and more than likely it will be successful. However there does need to be a trial and as the one who fired the gun he needs to go through the due process. 

    The charge is involuntary manslaughter after all, he's not accused of a deliberate act but it was his hand on the gun so he's on the hook one way or another.
  • The rumour doing the rounds at the time was that he had paid off her family. Maybe it wasn’t enough.
  • thenewbie said:
    thenewbie said:
    Chizz said:
    BBC News - Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter over shooting
    Not surprised. Ultimately he did aim a loaded weapon at someone and it was him who pulled the trigger. He may very well not be found guilty but I can't argue with the case being bought to court.
    If he was told the weapon was safe then he'll be found not guilty. The gun nuts will scream that he should have checked himself, but if an actor is handed a prop and told it's safe to operate, it's not their job to be an expert in that prop, just to use it as directed by the safety crew. Would be absolutely crazy to hand a gun to an actor, tell them to fire it directly at the camera and be happy to give the actor the sole determination on whether it is safe to do so or not.
    True, and I agree he'll use that defence, as he should and more than likely it will be successful. However there does need to be a trial and as the one who fired the gun he needs to go through the due process. 

    The charge is involuntary manslaughter after all, he's not accused of a deliberate act but it was his hand on the gun so he's on the hook one way or another.
    This quite literally shows the madness of guns. 
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  • thenewbie said:
    Chizz said:
    BBC News - Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter over shooting
    Not surprised. Ultimately he did aim a loaded weapon at someone and it was him who pulled the trigger. He may very well not be found guilty but I can't argue with the case being bought to court.
    And the case against him should be very short in finding him not guilty. An actor on a set, particularly someone like Baldwin who appears in lots of movies where guns are used was completely entitled to believe that a weapon handed to him was safe. A prop. Quite why the movie’s armourer loaded a gun with a live round is frankly beyond explanation. 
  • that guy needs to meet Alec Baldwin!

    that’s fucking outrageous and 100% will only end one way.  Thst kids is going to get shot 
  • Statistically speaking, the first thing that happens in the US when you buy/receive a gun is that your chance of dying in a gun related incident increases by 30%
  • Is America the most dangerous country in the world to live in?

    Probably at least in the top 10

    Imagine if a spouse or family member of yours was a teacher in a school, college or university.

    You'd always be worried every day whenever they go to work. Will they be coming home?
  • edited January 2023
    "go back to you're own county then! It's in our right for every man, woman and child to own firearms to make sure you lot don't think twice about taking us back again"
  • Fella I worked with for years took a job with our US operation, his first online training was what to do if an active shooter is on site - a bit different to the briefings on fire extinguishers, client confidentiality etc we used to do in the UK. The saddest part of this is that his new colleagues told him that their kids do similar training at school.
  • thenewbie said:
    thenewbie said:
    Chizz said:
    BBC News - Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter over shooting
    Not surprised. Ultimately he did aim a loaded weapon at someone and it was him who pulled the trigger. He may very well not be found guilty but I can't argue with the case being bought to court.
    If he was told the weapon was safe then he'll be found not guilty. The gun nuts will scream that he should have checked himself, but if an actor is handed a prop and told it's safe to operate, it's not their job to be an expert in that prop, just to use it as directed by the safety crew. Would be absolutely crazy to hand a gun to an actor, tell them to fire it directly at the camera and be happy to give the actor the sole determination on whether it is safe to do so or not.
    True, and I agree he'll use that defence, as he should and more than likely it will be successful. However there does need to be a trial and as the one who fired the gun he needs to go through the due process. 

    The charge is involuntary manslaughter after all, he's not accused of a deliberate act but it was his hand on the gun so he's on the hook one way or another.
    Is that like attempted manslauter.😕

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  • thenewbie said:
    thenewbie said:
    Chizz said:
    BBC News - Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter over shooting
    Not surprised. Ultimately he did aim a loaded weapon at someone and it was him who pulled the trigger. He may very well not be found guilty but I can't argue with the case being bought to court.
    If he was told the weapon was safe then he'll be found not guilty. The gun nuts will scream that he should have checked himself, but if an actor is handed a prop and told it's safe to operate, it's not their job to be an expert in that prop, just to use it as directed by the safety crew. Would be absolutely crazy to hand a gun to an actor, tell them to fire it directly at the camera and be happy to give the actor the sole determination on whether it is safe to do so or not.
    True, and I agree he'll use that defence, as he should and more than likely it will be successful. However there does need to be a trial and as the one who fired the gun he needs to go through the due process. 

    The charge is involuntary manslaughter after all, he's not accused of a deliberate act but it was his hand on the gun so he's on the hook one way or another.
    Is that like attempted manslauter.😕

    No. Attempted involves intent to kill with a defence, no death occurs.

    In the case of Involuntarily manslaughter the defendant did not cause the death deliberately or voluntarily. They did not kill the victim intentionally.
  • Statistically speaking, the first thing that happens in the US when you buy/receive a gun is that your chance of dying in a gun related incident increases by 30%
    Legally, illegally or just a gun per se?
  • Statistically speaking, the first thing that happens in the US when you buy/receive a gun is that your chance of dying in a gun related incident increases by 30%
    Legally, illegally or just a gun per se?
    Just owning a gun. Obviously the statistics are skewed horribly by people involved in illegal activities, whether their guns were obtained legally or not.

    Scary scary fact, there's been 50 gun deaths in the UK in the last 12 months, there's been 133 people killed by children with guns in the US in that time
  • I find 50 gun deaths in uk a surprisingly high amount in 12 months 
  • MrOneLung said:
    I find 50 gun deaths in uk a surprisingly high amount in 12 months 
    I read the 55 number in a news article. Trying to find supporting research. Found a home office report stating 35 homicides by firearm last year, so another 20 manslaughter+accidental isn't unrealistic.

    Anyway, the point was that toddlers kills as many people with guns in the US as all gun related deaths in the UK.
  • Isn’t it odd that they’re charging Baldwin, seemingly with the same charge (and potential punishment) as the armourer. What is the point in a film production employing an armourer if the actor has to check the gun hasn’t got a live round in?

    unless there’s more than meets the eye (only read limited press TBF) I find this astonishing. 
  • Fella I worked with for years took a job with our US operation, his first online training was what to do if an active shooter is on site - a bit different to the briefings on fire extinguishers, client confidentiality etc we used to do in the UK. The saddest part of this is that his new colleagues told him that their kids do similar training at school.
    One of my friends got a job on the board of a large bank in the States and uprooted his family to move there. They bought a house in a nice area just outside NYC. Every evening he likes to go for a run after work. One of his neighbours being kind pulled him to one side and said " Femi please do not do that, if the police see a black man running around here in the evening they are likely to shoot you" After 16 months of living the American Dream which among other things involved his 2 primary school aged children having to go through security in order to get into their school he resigned and returned to the UK. Some kind of "land Of The Free" eh !!
  • Isn’t it odd that they’re charging Baldwin, seemingly with the same charge (and potential punishment) as the armourer. What is the point in a film production employing an armourer if the actor has to check the gun hasn’t got a live round in?

    unless there’s more than meets the eye (only read limited press TBF) I find this astonishing. 
    Has he been charged as a producer or something?  Maybe if he had some overarching responsibility on set, or hired the armourer and she wasn't up to the job etc there's maybe more of an argument to charge him I guess.

    If not, charging an actor who is told he's firing something that is safe to fire, the same as actors must do on westerns etc thousands of times, is odd.
  • Isn’t it odd that they’re charging Baldwin, seemingly with the same charge (and potential punishment) as the armourer. What is the point in a film production employing an armourer if the actor has to check the gun hasn’t got a live round in?

    unless there’s more than meets the eye (only read limited press TBF) I find this astonishing. 
    Has he been charged as a producer or something?  Maybe if he had some overarching responsibility on set, or hired the armourer and she wasn't up to the job etc there's maybe more of an argument to charge him I guess.

    If not, charging an actor who is told he's firing something that is safe to fire, the same as actors must do on westerns etc thousands of times, is odd.
    I presume he's charged because he is the one who physically pulled the trigger and fired the killing shot. No doubt he will use the defence of being told by the suitable parties that it was safe to do so and quite likely this will succeed but I think he's got to be charged as it was his action that lead to the death.

    I doubt he'll be found guilty but by the letter of law I guess he has to be charged.
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