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Formula 1 Thread
Comments
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Terrible track bordering on dangerous, if it wasn't in Saudi they probably wouldn't be back.2
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I thought it was funny that bit of awkwardness between Damon Hill and Horner haha. Red Bull always try to play the victim even though the majority of the time it's them bending the rules to gain advantages.1
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Lol at some of the comments on here.
Max slowed down in the most logical place to do so on the circuit, as he then demonstrated later on in the race, the issue was the communication between the FIA, Red Bull and Mercedes.
Clearly the FIA told Red Bull to give up the place, then before the FIA could tell Mercedes and they then let Lewis know, Red Bull relayed the information to Max and he slowed down on the straight, expecting Lewis to go past, and instead he got confused, slowed down with Max, and then when he tried to go round him it was too late. The talk of brake checking etc is just nonsensical.
The defense in the first corner by him, was way overboard and he deserves penalties for that, but the weird turn 25 incident, in my opinion, was purely miscommunication by all parties, but in particular by the FIA3 -
I am amazed a racing driver like Paul De Resta does not seem to understand that Hamilton has got to parity points wise by being cautious with Verstappen. Has Hamilton run over has cat or something?
It does look like the FIA need to take the blame which ought to save Verstappen. I didn't realise you were allowed to give the place back and take it back immediately using DRS. It seems against he spirit of the rules and that needs to be looked at.
I think Vertsappen was trying to achieve this and Hamilton didn't know what was happening. It is ridiculous the message is not passed to the chasing car first. Hamilton has had to take avoiding action against Verstappen time and time again in recent races. He would not pass in a position he didn't feel safe doing so if he didn't know he could pass and rightly so. Max may have had an issue and decided to take them both out for all he knew. Hamilton has been expert in the way he has avoided these incidents.1 -
Four time Verstappen tried to take Hamilton off.
Four times. And each time was when Lewis had either passed him or Verstappen was told to give up the place because of his dangerous driving.
But it was all the FIAs fault or Hamiltons.
Amazing how only Verstappen got the time penalty.1 -
I suspect you are probably right. The one thing Mercedes can potentially point to is the amount Verstappen slowed, and he slowed more as Hamilton approached, was unusual and Hamilton may have wanted to make extra sure it wasn’t a VSC or similar, before passing, given there’d been one every few laps leading up to it.lordromford said:Both teams are being disingenuous regarding the the DRS line in my opinion.
Verstappen was clearly trying to pull a fast one by letting Hamilton through before the line. We saw him try to bend the rules afterwards when he “let him through” knowing full well he’d have the position and momentum to retake, so he’s more than happy to play dirty if he can get away with it and giving it the old “maybe that’s what Hamilton was doing” smells dirty to me.
On the flip side, it did seem a bit weird that Hamilton didn’t jump on the chance to overtake unless he too was thinking about using DRS on the next straight.
In my opinion, they’re both lying and they both know it.
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It was five seconds in the race and the race has ended. Hamilton got 10 seconds at Silverstone and still won but the 10 seconds were spent.1
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Time penalties are applied during the race (during stops) or added at the end. The 5secs max got prevented him from pitting and getting fresh tyres for fastest lap. If he did, he'd have most likely finished behind Ocon & Bottas.SoundAsa£ said:1 -
Verstappen move at the 2nd restart was amazing but also one of who isn't afraid to crash. Next week will be interesting if they go wheel to wheel1
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FIA really have to let Max know that if he takes out Hamilton dishonestly in the last race, he will be deducted points. It has been a great season but it needs to end cleanly whatever the outcome.2
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They can obviously not be seen to single him out.MuttleyCAFC said:FIA really have to let Max know that if he takes out Hamilton dishonestly in the last race, he will be deducted points. It has been a great season but it needs to end cleanly whatever the outcome.
The only thing they could possibly do is to issue a warning to all drivers…..and then only if the rules allow them to do that.0 -
They would have to make it a general warning but there is a precedent for doing this.SoundAsa£ said:
They will obviously not be seen to single him out.MuttleyCAFC said:FIA really have to let Max know that if he takes out Hamilton dishonestly in the last race, he will be deducted points. It has been a great season but it needs to end cleanly whatever the outcome.
The only thing they could possibly do is to issue a warning to all drivers…..and then only if the rules allow them to do that.0 -
I think De Resta is supposed to have some kind of beef with Hamilton from juniors days.MuttleyCAFC said:I am amazed a racing driver like Paul De Resta does not seem to understand that Hamilton has got to parity points wise by being cautious with Verstappen. Has Hamilton run over has cat or something?
It does look like the FIA need to take the blame which ought to save Verstappen. I didn't realise you were allowed to give the place back and take it back immediately using DRS. It seems against he spirit of the rules and that needs to be looked at.
I think Vertsappen was trying to achieve this and Hamilton didn't know what was happening. It is ridiculous the message is not passed to the chasing car first. Hamilton has had to take avoiding action against Verstappen time and time again in recent races. He would not pass in a position he didn't feel safe doing so if he didn't know he could pass and rightly so. Max may have had an issue and decided to take them both out for all he knew. Hamilton has been expert in the way he has avoided these incidents.
Perhaps there needs to be a predetermined point on track, outside the DRS zone, where places must be handed back.3 -
Di resta has beef with Lewis from back in karting - when LH showed him up somewhat.MuttleyCAFC said:I am amazed a racing driver like Paul De Resta does not seem to understand that Hamilton has got to parity points wise by being cautious with Verstappen. Has Hamilton run over has cat or something?
It does look like the FIA need to take the blame which ought to save Verstappen. I didn't realise you were allowed to give the place back and take it back immediately using DRS. It seems against he spirit of the rules and that needs to be looked at.
I think Vertsappen was trying to achieve this and Hamilton didn't know what was happening. It is ridiculous the message is not passed to the chasing car first. Hamilton has had to take avoiding action against Verstappen time and time again in recent races. He would not pass in a position he didn't feel safe doing so if he didn't know he could pass and rightly so. Max may have had an issue and decided to take them both out for all he knew. Hamilton has been expert in the way he has avoided these incidents.0 -
Or a ruling that the place can't be taken back until after two corners or something similar. It is supposed to be a penalty.2
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This is true. A very good move.BigRedEvil said:Verstappen move at the 2nd restart was amazing but also one of who isn't afraid to crash. Next week will be interesting if they go wheel to wheelHowever, the Mercedes drivers have opened the door for him on two occasions recently by moving right on the start and not closing the door on the left. Bottas did it in Mexico and Hamilton did it today. Very strange that on both occasions they seemed more preoccupied by the man alongside them than Max behind them, when on both occasions the driver alongside was far less likely to be a threat further down the road. (Bottas was, for some reason, concentrating on Hamilton in Mexico, and today, Hamilton was focused on Ocon, who he was always going to get past later.)
Can’t fault Verstappen for taking advantage both times, but very odd decisions by both Merc drivers.0 -
If both cars went out, Verstappen would have probably only had to finish second in the final race. Hamilton has to be as cautious as hell in that situation. Verstappen didn't and hasn't been.0
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MuttleyCAFC said:If both cars went out, Verstappen would have probably only had to finish second in the final race. Hamilton has to be as cautious as hell in that situation. Verstappen didn't and hasn't been.
Max has a second stab at that next week.
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Yes and that is why FIA needs to act now. It will turn a great season sour if say he takes Hamilton out at the start.0
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He didn't slow down on the straight, he slowed down on the exit of a bend, on the entrance to the straight, where the track narrowed. He then dawdled in the middle of the track to make it as difficult as possible.sam3110 said:Lol at some of the comments on here.
Max slowed down in the most logical place to do so on the circuit, as he then demonstrated later on in the race, the issue was the communication between the FIA, Red Bull and Mercedes.
Clearly the FIA told Red Bull to give up the place, then before the FIA could tell Mercedes and they then let Lewis know, Red Bull relayed the information to Max and he slowed down on the straight, expecting Lewis to go past, and instead he got confused, slowed down with Max, and then when he tried to go round him it was too late. The talk of brake checking etc is just nonsensical.
The defense in the first corner by him, was way overboard and he deserves penalties for that, but the weird turn 25 incident, in my opinion, was purely miscommunication by all parties, but in particular by the FIA3 -
Sam, I know quite a few of us on here are cheering Hamilton on, and I appreciate that your position is different, but you surely must recognise that Verstappen’s aggressive driving style needs reining in?sam3110 said:Lol at some of the comments on here.
Max slowed down in the most logical place to do so on the circuit, as he then demonstrated later on in the race, the issue was the communication between the FIA, Red Bull and Mercedes.
Clearly the FIA told Red Bull to give up the place, then before the FIA could tell Mercedes and they then let Lewis know, Red Bull relayed the information to Max and he slowed down on the straight, expecting Lewis to go past, and instead he got confused, slowed down with Max, and then when he tried to go round him it was too late. The talk of brake checking etc is just nonsensical.
The defense in the first corner by him, was way overboard and he deserves penalties for that, but the weird turn 25 incident, in my opinion, was purely miscommunication by all parties, but in particular by the FIA
Hamilton isn’t perfect by any means, and both drivers have pushed it at times this year, but Verstappen’s antics recently are consistently the wrong side of the rules.
I’ll give you the incident that led to the coming together today being nothing because, as I’ve said already, I feel both teams are being a bit dishonest about that. But even disregarding that, he’s causing too many problems.There’s aggressive and competitive driving, but then there’s dangerous and dishonest driving. Verstappen is the latter two at the moment.
ps. Also, an interesting moment today was the revelation that, despite constantly whining about other drivers’ antics, screaming “THAT’S NOT ALLOWED!” It turns out he doesn’t even know the rules and it was allowed, so maybe someone at Red Bull should explain the rules to him, so he doesn’t keep breaking them.4 -
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If he was a footballer you’d say he plays on the edge. It’s a legitimate way to go about your business, you find a competitive advantage where you can, but at least be honest with yourself and others that that’s the way you behave.lordromford said:
Sam, I know quite a few of us on here are cheering Hamilton on, and I appreciate that your position is different, but you surely must recognise that Verstappen’s aggressive driving style needs reining in?sam3110 said:Lol at some of the comments on here.
Max slowed down in the most logical place to do so on the circuit, as he then demonstrated later on in the race, the issue was the communication between the FIA, Red Bull and Mercedes.
Clearly the FIA told Red Bull to give up the place, then before the FIA could tell Mercedes and they then let Lewis know, Red Bull relayed the information to Max and he slowed down on the straight, expecting Lewis to go past, and instead he got confused, slowed down with Max, and then when he tried to go round him it was too late. The talk of brake checking etc is just nonsensical.
The defense in the first corner by him, was way overboard and he deserves penalties for that, but the weird turn 25 incident, in my opinion, was purely miscommunication by all parties, but in particular by the FIA
Hamilton isn’t perfect by any means, and both drivers have pushed it at times this year, but Verstappen’s antics recently are consistently the wrong side of the rules.
I’ll give you the incident that led to the coming together today being nothing because, as I’ve said already, I feel both teams are being a bit dishonest about that. But even disregarding that, he’s causing too many problems.There’s aggressive and competitive driving, but then there’s dangerous and dishonest driving. Verstappen is the latter two at the moment.
ps. Also, an interesting moment today was the revelation that, despite constantly whining about other drivers’ antics, screaming “THAT’S NOT ALLOWED!” It turns out he doesn’t even know the rules and it was allowed, so maybe someone at Red Bull should explain the rules to him, so he doesn’t keep breaking them.Similarly, if today’s race was a football match, he’d have been at least booked for persistent fouling and possibly sent off for two bookable offences, which is ultimately pretty much what the stewards have concluded. The frustration is the penalties haven’t really materially affected his finishing position because in certain Hamilton was going to get past him without the fouls.0 -
So a meaningless 10 second penalty leaving Verstappen free to take Hamilton out in the next race…let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.0
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Prediction for next week - Hamilton Has the quickest car and Verstappen takes him out during the race - becoming World Champion.1
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I think it was probably the right decision as ultimately the primary cause was the mis management of the stewards and the race director. Verstappen would have assumed Hamilton knew he could overtake. There is an additional issue in that Verstappen was driving to get DRS which wasn't breaking any rules. This is clearly a weakness in the rules that FIA need to resolve now.
The overtake Verstappen made earlier was not worse than Brazil but he was punished for it. He overtook off the track and re-entered dangerously but those running the race have tied themselves in knots by not acting consistently. They absolutely have to issue a general warning that in the final race that points will be deducted if a car takes another off the track unfairly which consequently has a material effect on the final placings. We know that Verstappen will be aware that may be the only way to stop Hamilton and that situation needs removing.
Another inconsistency was Verstappen getting a post race 10 second penalty. In previous races, post race decisions seem to be punished with a token grid penalty. I understand them not wanting to interfere with a great finale but they have lost, in my opinion, control of managing the rules. Masi started it before today and is clearly out of his depth.4 -
So the data proves he stamped on the brake pedal with serious force - then accelerated off.
Horner lied in the Tv interview. Plain and simple. Throw the book at him.
And a meaningless penalty for brake testing someone. The filthiest thing you can do in motorsport.
Masi needs to go.
And as for the notorious son of a wire beater... Max Verstappen is a filthy c*** of a person. End of story.6 -
If the FIA took 1 point off Max it would make next weeks race entirely different. Max has to be warned otherwise it’s clear what will happen.
Hamiilton needs to stay well away from this nutter0
