Fair enough. If that's what was meant then I agree and unreservedly apologise.
Something about the wording just left a bad taste in the mouth......
Not to mention the inaccuracy in that it is Muslims killing non Muslims. How many Muslims have been killed in the various atrocities over the years. Probably a shed load.
@DamoNorthStand I can't understand how you misread that, but what I was saying was in reply to someone that said it was a muslim problem, it's not just a muslim problem, it's also a non muslim problem and I was referring to IS as a disease not muslims, hope that's cleared that up.
Chilling because I said that if intelligence exists, these people cannot, and must not, be given the benefit of doubt, or innocent people will get slaughtered. That has now played out, yet again. You Seth, dismissed the intelligence against Aamer that I presented, out of hand, and you, your daughter and Chizz were more concerned about any violation of his human rights, and that he should be well compensated, than you were about any potential risk that he posed in light of that intelligence information. It is like you are all in denial. Chizz stated yesterday that we are not at war, despite the fact that world leaders including Hollande are now admitting that it is war. In war, you do not appease your enemy, you take them out of the equation by locking them up or killing them. They certainly have no qualms about killing us. Until such time that you acknowledge the fact that we are at war, our lands will continue to be occupied, our way of life diminished, our laws and values trashed. That is exactly what Mohammed advocates in the Koran, ISIS are now following his teachings to the letter. Sharia law already exists in the UK. How have we allowed our judicial system to be hijacked in such away? How can we allow Muslims to stand on our streets openly admitting that they don't recognise our laws and refuse to abide by them? People first need to educate themselves about Mohammed and the origins of Islam, and not just accept the false assertion that Islam is the religion of peace, it's not. Mohammed was a violent man and many of his teachings advocate violence, including striking off the heads of infidels, wife beating etc. If "moderate" muslims want to live peacefully amongst us, they are most welcome. But they must live according to OUR laws and close down their Sharia courts immediately. And if they are serious about their hatred of ISIS, they will come together and issue a FATWA against them, and then set about reforming their religion so that it is no longer a magnet for these extremist nutters. In the meantime I want to see anyone found to have close associations with ISIS locked up and I don't care if they throw away the key, so long as innocent people are kept safe. Don't want to be locked up? Then live a good clean life and stay well away from other terrorists, that's not difficult.
I did not dismiss what you posted out of hand. I said consistently that if he was guilty of something then put him on trial.
What's wrong with that?
You have mentioned left wingers, and I mentioned the right wing Brevik, do you want anybody found to have close associations with right wing organisations locked up, and you don't care if they throw away the key?
Isn't the point that on the extremes everywhere there are dangerous fanatics, and dangerous fanatics are not allowed licence by left wing inclined people, any more than they are allowed licence by right wing people.
You assume to know about my hierarchy of concerns...as in more concerned about human rights than your particular agenda, how do you know what concerns me most?
PS I do not have a daughter even though I would like to have one.
Well that's really odd because PaddyP17 claims that Seth (who was at the meeting and who apologised to Katrien) is her Dad. Perhaps there are two Seth's on CL
PaddyP17 Member November 11 Said I'd provide a writeup ladies and gents. Seth's not home yet, but here it is anyway, based on the fairly comprehensive tweets:
We're fucked.
and
PaddyP17 Member November 11
Hartleypete said:
1) because I can not see what they bring to the table, might be wrong but that's my opinion.
2) no why where you?
3) why make such an assumption.
1) Okay fine. Can't swing anyone on that.
2) My dad was, and will be providing an update with my assistance in I presume "a bit" when he gets back home.
3) Have been following the tweets and this page. Have also seen the questions the "consortium" (for want of a better word) had drafted. Haven't seen any questions, other than inane ones, quoted in the vast majority of the tweets.
Oh fucking lol this is truly excellent. I love how this evidence all explicitly states my gender.
Except oh wait. It doesn't. Just like all this stuff you want to claim is "evidence" to perpetrate your point isn't actually evidence at all.
My name is Paddy. Which, believe it or not, is a derivative of Patrick, which (unless there is some really really weird joke being played on me and the legions of other people called Patrick) is a male name...
What makes me seem female? I mean, statistically speaking, the overwhelming majority of football followers and forum posters are male, so, ah... I'm intrigued.
Friday the 13th, already thought of as a unlucky day will now join 9/11 and 7/7 in the annals of terrorist activity against the west; to go with the Madrid bombings and Charlie Hebdo in recent history as the attacks on the democratic secular world.
This feels like the seminal moment, which will be the end of the beginning.
When Gavrilo Princip, one of a team of 7 Bosnian Serbs and 1 Bosnian Muslim shot the Archduke Franz Ferdinand and wife Sophie, the Heir to the Austro-Hungarian empire, at Sarajevo, few thought that day that the first World war would start a month later. No countries at war, but worst this time because both sides need to totally destroy each other to win.
We will find out what we have learnt in the last 100 years, over the next few weeks.
The enemy this time has just appeared from a time tunnel, from the 12th century. The problem is their weapons are from the late 20th century. Our problem is our enemy lives in the shadows.
Oh fucking lol this is truly excellent. I love how this evidence all explicitly states my gender.
Except oh wait. It doesn't. Just like all this stuff you want to claim is "evidence" to perpetrate your point isn't actually evidence at all.
My name is Paddy. Which, believe it or not, is a derivative of Patrick, which (unless there is some really really weird joke being played on me and the legions of other people called Patrick) is a male name...
What makes me seem female? I mean, statistically speaking, the overwhelming majority of football followers and forum posters are male, so, ah... I'm intrigued.
I think there's too many closing quotecodethingies in the original thread of comments, which causes the problem
Oh fucking lol this is truly excellent. I love how this evidence all explicitly states my gender.
Except oh wait. It doesn't. Just like all this stuff you want to claim is "evidence" to perpetrate your point isn't actually evidence at all.
My name is Paddy. Which, believe it or not, is a derivative of Patrick, which (unless there is some really really weird joke being played on me and the legions of other people called Patrick) is a male name...
What makes me seem female? I mean, statistically speaking, the overwhelming majority of football followers and forum posters are male, so, ah... I'm intrigued.
I think there's too many closing quotecodethingies in the original thread of comments, which causes the problem
France have just dropped 20 bombs on Syria. They're saying that these attacks were planned long in advance, but I can't help but think it is a huge retaliation based on Friday's events.
France have just dropped 20 bombs on Syria. They're saying that these attacks were planned long in advance, but I can't help but think it is a huge retaliation based on Friday's events.
As much as I agree, in the short term you'd think that will purely lead to more support for their cause and therefore more atrocities from those amongst us. Let's hope not!!
Whilst I want them to be 'wiped out', it does seem like a huge catch 22 when there are many people who are on this continent nowhere near Syria, who are willing to retaliate when bombs are dropped over there.
I was talking about it with a friend earlier, and it just doesn't seem as though there is an end in sight. We're dealing with an enemy that seems to want Western civilization completely destroyed and are willing to kill themselves for it. What on earth is the solution to deal with something like that?!
personally i'm amazed article 5 of NATO hasn't been evoked yet and we're all not bashing the shit out of Daesh. But we need a long term strategy for syria and iraq, involving long term economic and educational investment from all of the NATO powers.
Whilst I want them to be 'wiped out', it does seem like a huge catch 22 when there are many people who are on this continent nowhere near Syria, who are willing to retaliate when bombs are dropped over there.
I was talking about it with a friend earlier, and it just doesn't seem as though there is an end in sight. We're dealing with an enemy that seems to want Western civilization completely destroyed and are willing to kill themselves for it. What on earth is the solution to deal with something like that?!
We take the fight to them. Increase bombing. Send in a coalition of nations. It won't solve everything but IS need to be defeated in their stronghold. We wheedle out the jihadist preachers and nullify them. We stop at source the revenue streams to IS by any and every means possible. An act of war on France needs to be acted upon.
Whilst I want them to be 'wiped out', it does seem like a huge catch 22 when there are many people who are on this continent nowhere near Syria, who are willing to retaliate when bombs are dropped over there.
I was talking about it with a friend earlier, and it just doesn't seem as though there is an end in sight. We're dealing with an enemy that seems to want Western civilization completely destroyed and are willing to kill themselves for it. What on earth is the solution to deal with something like that?!
We take the fight to them. Increase bombing. Send in a coalition of nations. It won't solve everything but IS need to be defeated in their stronghold. We wheedle out the jihadist preachers and nullify them. We stop at source the revenue streams to IS by any and every means possible. An act of war on France needs to be acted upon.
Whilst I want them to be 'wiped out', it does seem like a huge catch 22 when there are many people who are on this continent nowhere near Syria, who are willing to retaliate when bombs are dropped over there.
I was talking about it with a friend earlier, and it just doesn't seem as though there is an end in sight. We're dealing with an enemy that seems to want Western civilization completely destroyed and are willing to kill themselves for it. What on earth is the solution to deal with something like that?!
We take the fight to them. Increase bombing. Send in a coalition of nations. It won't solve everything but IS need to be defeated in their stronghold. We wheedle out the jihadist preachers and nullify them. We stop at source the revenue streams to IS by any and every means possible. An act of war on France needs to be acted upon.
Whilst I respect and appreciate your optimism on how that could defeat them - again, what is stopping someone who is born and raised in this country but with those extreme beliefs getting their hands on a few guns and going on a rampage?
Friday the 13th, already thought of as a unlucky day will now join 9/11 and 7/7 in the annals of terrorist activity against the west; to go with the Madrid bombings and Charlie Hebdo in recent history as the attacks on the democratic secular world.
This feels like the seminal moment, which will be the end of the beginning.
When Gavrilo Princip, one of a team of 7 Bosnian Serbs and 1 Bosnian Muslim shot the Archduke Franz Ferdinand and wife Sophie, the Heir to the Austro-Hungarian empire, at Sarajevo, few thought that day that the first World war would start a month later. No countries at war, but worst this time because both sides need to totally destroy each other to win.
We will find out what we have learnt in the last 100 years, over the next few weeks.
The enemy this time has just appeared from a time tunnel, from the 12th century. The problem is their weapons are from the late 20th century. Our problem is our enemy lives in the shadows.
May luck be on our side.
Interesting analogy but there won't be a World War breaking out - can't say for sure, of course but there should hopefully be sufficient balance between the world powers to prevent it.
We can only hope these world powers now attack this extremism in unison and at its heart and hit them fast.
What we, as Joe Public, need to ensure is that we now accept that ISIL/ISIS does not represent Islam or Muslims - they are a radicalised entity hell bent on destruction and we must look to disassociate them totally from our every day Muslim neighbour.
The only thing I want to see now is the immediate introduction of controls to curb extremism in this country. The end of the Stacey Dooley Luton video was quite chilling.
The Muslim leaders in our country must begin modernisation of their doctrines with urgency and pedlars of hatred quashed.
Please let's be sensible - controlling extremism should apply to both left wing and right wing idealogies and it would be prudent for our Government to introduce tangible and immediately visible changes to current 'freedoms of expression' allowed to fringe and ethnic minority groups to prevent any potential rise in right wing, nationalistic fervour.
Comments
Something about the wording just left a bad taste in the mouth......
Not to mention the inaccuracy in that it is Muslims killing non Muslims. How many Muslims have been killed in the various atrocities over the years. Probably a shed load.
I can't understand how you misread that, but what I was saying was in reply to someone that said it was a muslim problem, it's not just a muslim problem, it's also a non muslim problem and I was referring to IS as a disease not muslims, hope that's cleared that up.
Worth a read
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/13/anonymous-hackers-islamic-state-isis-chan-online-war/?utm_content=buffer07f11&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Why don't Europe listen to this man?
You Seth, dismissed the intelligence against Aamer that I presented, out of hand, and you, your daughter and Chizz were more concerned about any violation of his human rights, and that he should be well compensated, than you were about any potential risk that he posed in light of that intelligence information.
It is like you are all in denial. Chizz stated yesterday that we are not at war, despite the fact that world leaders including Hollande are now admitting that it is war. In war, you do not appease your enemy, you take them out of the equation by locking them up or killing them. They certainly have no qualms about killing us.
Until such time that you acknowledge the fact that we are at war, our lands will continue to be occupied, our way of life diminished, our laws and values trashed.
That is exactly what Mohammed advocates in the Koran, ISIS are now following his teachings to the letter. Sharia law already exists in the UK. How have we allowed our judicial system to be hijacked in such away? How can we allow Muslims to stand on our streets openly admitting that they don't recognise our laws and refuse to abide by them?
People first need to educate themselves about Mohammed and the origins of Islam, and not just accept the false assertion that Islam is the religion of peace, it's not. Mohammed was a violent man and many of his teachings advocate violence, including striking off the heads of infidels, wife beating etc.
If "moderate" muslims want to live peacefully amongst us, they are most welcome. But they must live according to OUR laws and close down their Sharia courts immediately. And if they are serious about their hatred of ISIS, they will come together and issue a FATWA against them, and then set about reforming their religion so that it is no longer a magnet for these extremist nutters.
In the meantime I want to see anyone found to have close associations with ISIS locked up and I don't care if they throw away the key, so long as innocent people are kept safe. Don't want to be locked up? Then live a good clean life and stay well away from other terrorists, that's not difficult.
I did not dismiss what you posted out of hand. I said consistently that if he was guilty of something then put him on trial.
What's wrong with that?
You have mentioned left wingers, and I mentioned the right wing Brevik, do you want anybody found to have close associations with right wing organisations locked up, and you don't care if they throw away the key?
Isn't the point that on the extremes everywhere there are dangerous fanatics, and dangerous fanatics are not allowed licence by left wing inclined people, any more than they are allowed licence by right wing people.
You assume to know about my hierarchy of concerns...as in more concerned about human rights than your particular agenda, how do you know what concerns me most?
PS I do not have a daughter even though I would like to have one.
Well that's really odd because PaddyP17 claims that Seth (who was at the meeting and who apologised to Katrien) is her Dad. Perhaps there are two Seth's on CL
PaddyP17 Member
November 11
Said I'd provide a writeup ladies and gents. Seth's not home yet, but here it is anyway, based on the fairly comprehensive tweets:
We're fucked.
and
PaddyP17 Member
November 11
Hartleypete said:
1) because I can not see what they bring to the table, might be wrong but that's my opinion.
2) no why where you?
3) why make such an assumption.
1) Okay fine. Can't swing anyone on that.
2) My dad was, and will be providing an update with my assistance in I presume "a bit" when he gets back home.
3) Have been following the tweets and this page. Have also seen the questions the "consortium" (for want of a better word) had drafted. Haven't seen any questions, other than inane ones, quoted in the vast majority of the tweets.
Oh fucking lol this is truly excellent. I love how this evidence all explicitly states my gender.
Except oh wait. It doesn't. Just like all this stuff you want to claim is "evidence" to perpetrate your point isn't actually evidence at all.
My name is Paddy. Which, believe it or not, is a derivative of Patrick, which (unless there is some really really weird joke being played on me and the legions of other people called Patrick) is a male name...
What makes me seem female? I mean, statistically speaking, the overwhelming majority of football followers and forum posters are male, so, ah... I'm intrigued.
9/11 and 7/7 in the annals of terrorist activity against the west;
to go with the Madrid bombings and Charlie Hebdo in recent history as the attacks on the democratic secular world.
This feels like the seminal moment, which will be the end of the beginning.
When Gavrilo Princip, one of a team of 7 Bosnian Serbs and 1 Bosnian Muslim
shot the Archduke Franz Ferdinand and wife Sophie, the Heir to the
Austro-Hungarian empire, at Sarajevo, few thought that day that the first World war would start a month later. No countries at war, but worst this time because both sides need to totally destroy each other to win.
We will find out what we have learnt in the last 100 years,
over the next few weeks.
The enemy this time has just appeared from a time tunnel, from the 12th century.
The problem is their weapons are from the late 20th century.
Our problem is our enemy lives in the shadows.
May luck be on our side.
I hope Cameron and Co bomb the living shit out of the whole area, wipe them out
I was talking about it with a friend earlier, and it just doesn't seem as though there is an end in sight. We're dealing with an enemy that seems to want Western civilization completely destroyed and are willing to kill themselves for it. What on earth is the solution to deal with something like that?!
"Hit them" on all possible fronts.
We need to absolutely destroy them and their supporters with all means necessary
We can only hope these world powers now attack this extremism in unison and at its heart and hit them fast.
What we, as Joe Public, need to ensure is that we now accept that ISIL/ISIS does not represent Islam or Muslims - they are a radicalised entity hell bent on destruction and we must look to disassociate them totally from our every day Muslim neighbour.
The only thing I want to see now is the immediate introduction of controls to curb extremism in this country.
The end of the Stacey Dooley Luton video was quite chilling.
The Muslim leaders in our country must begin modernisation of their doctrines with urgency and pedlars of hatred quashed.
Please let's be sensible - controlling extremism should apply to both left wing and right wing idealogies and it would be prudent for our Government to introduce tangible and immediately visible changes to current 'freedoms of expression' allowed to fringe and ethnic minority groups to prevent any potential rise in right wing, nationalistic fervour.