One of these despicable, cowardly terrorists, who committed one of the vile, reprehensible acts of violence was found with a Syrian passport, from which it was quick and easy to determine that he had passed through Greece, in the influx of refugees earlier this Autumn.
The knee-jerk reaction is for a noisy minority to shout about the terrible numbers ("swarm", anyone?) of refugees coming to safety in Europe from the violence in Syria. Easy conclusion, right?
Only, stop and think for a second, about what ISIL want us to think. They want division. They want to inflame hatred. They want refugees who have the audacity to leave Syria to be punished by having Europeans turn against them. ISIL believes that the an act of betrayal is perpetrated by Syrians turning their back (literally and figuratively) on Syria and moving - for safety, compassion, security - to Europe.
They want Europeans to turn against refugees. They want Europeans to make it clear refugees aren't welcome. They want Europeans to be loud in their intolerance, hatred and fear of refugees.
Otherwise - and this points back to the one, significant piece of evidence - why would a suicide bomber carry his passport? Why was his passport found on what remained of this miserable specimen's body? Was he planning to make an international trip later in the day? Of course not - he was planning to die.
Happily, his intention to create division, fear and hatred - like everything else in the rest of this pathetic individual's life - has proved to be a failure.
One of these despicable, cowardly terrorists, who committed one of the vile, reprehensible acts of violence was found with a Syrian passport, from which it was quick and easy to determine that he had passed through Greece, in the influx of refugees earlier this Autumn.
The knee-jerk reaction is for a noisy minority to shout about the terrible numbers ("swarm", anyone?) of refugees coming to safety in Europe from the violence in Syria. Easy conclusion, right?
Only, stop and think for a second, about what ISIL want us to think. They want division. They want to inflame hatred. They want refugees who have the audacity to leave Syria to be punished by having Europeans turn against them. ISIL believes that the an act of betrayal is perpetrated by Syrians turning their back (literally and figuratively) on Syria and moving - for safety, compassion, security - to Europe.
They want Europeans to turn against refugees. They want Europeans to make it clear refugees aren't welcome. They want Europeans to be loud in their intolerance, hatred and fear of refugees.
Otherwise - and this points back to the one, significant piece of evidence - why would a suicide bomber carry his passport? Why was his passport found on what remained of this miserable specimen's body? Was he planning to make an international trip later in the day? Of course not - he was planning to die.
Happily, his intention to create division, fear and hatred - like everything else in the rest of this pathetic individual's life - has proved to be a failure.
For me, refugees will always be welcome.
You are correct but if there's no way to differentiate between the people actually trying to escape war, and the people actually trying to bring war into Europe - what are European countries supposed to do? cross their fingers? their obligation is, first and foremost, to the security of their citizens, not foreign migrants.
One of these despicable, cowardly terrorists, who committed one of the vile, reprehensible acts of violence was found with a Syrian passport, from which it was quick and easy to determine that he had passed through Greece, in the influx of refugees earlier this Autumn.
The knee-jerk reaction is for a noisy minority to shout about the terrible numbers ("swarm", anyone?) of refugees coming to safety in Europe from the violence in Syria. Easy conclusion, right?
Only, stop and think for a second, about what ISIL want us to think. They want division. They want to inflame hatred. They want refugees who have the audacity to leave Syria to be punished by having Europeans turn against them. ISIL believes that the an act of betrayal is perpetrated by Syrians turning their back (literally and figuratively) on Syria and moving - for safety, compassion, security - to Europe.
They want Europeans to turn against refugees. They want Europeans to make it clear refugees aren't welcome. They want Europeans to be loud in their intolerance, hatred and fear of refugees.
Otherwise - and this points back to the one, significant piece of evidence - why would a suicide bomber carry his passport? Why was his passport found on what remained of this miserable specimen's body? Was he planning to make an international trip later in the day? Of course not - he was planning to die.
Happily, his intention to create division, fear and hatred - like everything else in the rest of this pathetic individual's life - has proved to be a failure.
For me, refugees will always be welcome.
You are correct but if there's no way to differentiate between the people actually trying to escape war, and the people actually trying to bring war into Europe - what are European countries supposed to do? cross their fingers? their obligation is, first and foremost, to the security of their citizens, not foreign migrants.
@IAgree, I keep seeing you pop up on this thread. You haven't had much to say but you're certainly throwing those flags around. There's been very little that I would describe as abusive on this thread, so my question is why do you feel it's appropriate to try to censor posts that you don't like? If you disagree with people then fine, tell them, but just calling people abusive because they don't agree with you and staying quiet otherwise isn't very conducive to a debate
Sorry but I feel proudly uncomfortable with posters advocating;
"Then the security services can deal with those here already and cleanse them from the houses, flats estates and roads we all live on and once we are back in control of who is here deal with the fallout of closing the doors"
Making reference to "cleansing people" is not helpful and is chilling frankly.
Talking about putting bullets in Muslims heads is equally unacceptable
I haven't posted (and I am not usually backwards in coming forwards!) as I don't think it is respectful to those who have died.
I am disturbed that anyone who fails to engage in a rabid, hate filled rant or tries to push for a more balanced and considered response, which does not include ethnic cleansing, blaming an entire religious group comprising of many millions, or responding with knee jerk postings linking to frankly inflammatory sites "educating " us about Islam (interesting that certain of the posters seem so au fait with this material as to be able to pop it on the site at a moments notice) is branded an apologist!
I loathe ISIS and Islamism and think that they should be fought in every way available which doesn't compromise our freedom and democracy - I find the events in Paris abhorrent and shocking - I strongly advocate combatting hate preachers or mosques which allow such and all forms of promoting hatred and inspiring terrorism - I am not an apologist.
However certain posters have sought to use this tragedy to peddle fear and hatred and inflammatory and hate inspired material. I loathe seeing extreme Islamists on the street shouting abuse at passers by as much, as seeing cloth capped members of Britain First trying to intimidate Muslims. Both extremes add fuel to the fire - both need to be challenged vigorously - hence my flags.
Frankly I could search the web and get a dozen hate filled Islamist links and a dozen Islanphobic links within minutes - Neither are acceptable and neither should be posted on this site. Neither say anything about either most Muslims or most British , or most British Muslims.
Some of the assumptions made about those posters who have not worked themselves into a hate filled lather are pathetic! I am not brain dead, I loathe George Galloway (as opposed to loving him!) and because I can see a hate inspired link for what it is does not mean I am incapable of debate!
The link to the " book" put up by one poster for example, even the man who wrote it and runs the website says his friends and family don't want to have anything to do with him.
The link the the angry late middle aged white guy ranting on was equally offensive and hate filled.
Nuff said.
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the book. My wife who is Muslim, learned a lot and couldn't dispute any of it. Her only comment being that many of Mohammed's teachings were not meant to be interpreted literally. It is a legitimate book that has received great reviews on Amazon. Here is the description taken directly from the Amazon website:
Product Description The Story of Mohammed Islam Unveiled (Non-fiction full length book) Mohammed’s life story is the key which unlocks the complexities and confusion of the Islamic religion itself. Understanding his story provides a clear insight into Islam and the incredible importance this subject holds for our future. This is also the most amazing story never told. It is said that truth is stranger than fiction and you just could not have made this up. There are battles, murders, intrigues, rapes, assassinations, torture, intimidation, and much much more. Along the way Mohammed invented Jihad, the most effective system of conquest ever devised. This amazing book reads like an adventure story and brings the Islamic perspective to life in a way that is both fascinating and informative. Millions of people, both Muslims and non Muslims are tragically affected by aspects of Islam. More than 95% of all wars and armed conflict today involve Muslims. Muslims also suffer some of the highest rates of poverty, disease, hunger, illiteracy, environmental degradation and many more crippling disadvantages. By tackling the subject head on, this book gives the reader the ability to consider and discuss this subject from a position of knowledge, understanding and truth.
The eclectic views of posters on CL and other sites are why our Sons' Dads' Uncles' and Granddads' and our female relatives fought or battled to defeat our foes.
The enemies to freedom: that's what they are, whether they are called ISIS or Al Qaeda. I wonder what the next reincarnation of Islamist militants will be called.
Because we are a democratic Country ( i know it doesn't feel like it at times !) changes take a long time to happen, BUT we are free to criticize our governments and leaders without the fear of disappearing or being killed. Not perfect and deeply flawed, but within reason we have got freedom of speech even if the powers that be, would prefer it to be muffled( Freedom of the press)
Islamic Millitants are a medieval or Medi evil ideology, They are still in the time of Saladin and Richard the 1st. The Crusades are still on going. "The infidels must be defeated" You Can't beat an enemy within, which believe this, Let alone the newly imported ones who hate our values and our freedoms.
We can never really be safe on our streets because as the IRA spokes person said after the Bomb at Brighton 30 years ago:
"The security forces have to be lucky every time; We only have to get lucky once"
Chilling words that still apply.
RIP to the innocents who have died.
Rot in Hell or the dark void to the perpetrators of this outrage.
What does it matter what religion they are? We know what these murderers want which is world domination, we need a coalition to wipe them from the face of the earth. There is no negotiating to be done, they will not listen. With regards to the refugees, why are the young fit men not pleading with the west for arms to fight the disease on their own doorstep? Why are they just running away to let Europe fight their battles for them? Surely a true refugee would be happy enough with the first safe haven they come to, not walking hundreds and thousands of miles in search of better job prospects. We need to be very wary of incoming people and the only way is to close all borders immediately and have a holding area to allow time to vet these people. This disease is already among us, we know that, we need time to weed it out.
IMO Religion sucks balls, if people find solice in it in their hours of need then fair enough, but as a rule I think it should all be consigned to the dustbin.
One of these despicable, cowardly terrorists, who committed one of the vile, reprehensible acts of violence was found with a Syrian passport, from which it was quick and easy to determine that he had passed through Greece, in the influx of refugees earlier this Autumn.
The knee-jerk reaction is for a noisy minority to shout about the terrible numbers ("swarm", anyone?) of refugees coming to safety in Europe from the violence in Syria. Easy conclusion, right?
Only, stop and think for a second, about what ISIL want us to think. They want division. They want to inflame hatred. They want refugees who have the audacity to leave Syria to be punished by having Europeans turn against them. ISIL believes that the an act of betrayal is perpetrated by Syrians turning their back (literally and figuratively) on Syria and moving - for safety, compassion, security - to Europe.
They want Europeans to turn against refugees. They want Europeans to make it clear refugees aren't welcome. They want Europeans to be loud in their intolerance, hatred and fear of refugees.
Otherwise - and this points back to the one, significant piece of evidence - why would a suicide bomber carry his passport? Why was his passport found on what remained of this miserable specimen's body? Was he planning to make an international trip later in the day? Of course not - he was planning to die.
Happily, his intention to create division, fear and hatred - like everything else in the rest of this pathetic individual's life - has proved to be a failure.
For me, refugees will always be welcome.
ISIS always takes a great deal of pleasure in mocking and taunting the enemy. To me he was saying " ha ha, look you idiots, you let me in and there are hundreds more of us ready and waiting to maim, destroy and terrorise you, you stupid mugs".
Have read online that French police believe the two Syrian passports found had been bought in Turkey.
I'm sticking with my theory that the attackers holding Syrian passports were actually European citizens, in which case they could have returned to France by other means.
Also reported that an Egyptian passport found at the scene but later clarified that it belonged to one of the victims.
Have read online that French police believe the two Syrian passports found had been bought in Turkey.
I'm sticking with my theory that the attackers holding Syrian passports were actually European citizens, in which case they could have returned to France by other means.
Also reported that an Egyptian passport found at the scene but later clarified that it belonged to one of the victims.
Regardless of whether that is true or not, surely you recognise how easy it would be for an IS extremist to pose as a refugee to get into Europe and the obvious security threats that poses.
@IAgree, I keep seeing you pop up on this thread. You haven't had much to say but you're certainly throwing those flags around. There's been very little that I would describe as abusive on this thread, so my question is why do you feel it's appropriate to try to censor posts that you don't like? If you disagree with people then fine, tell them, but just calling people abusive because they don't agree with you and staying quiet otherwise isn't very conducive to a debate
Sorry but I feel proudly uncomfortable with posters advocating;
"Then the security services can deal with those here already and cleanse them from the houses, flats estates and roads we all live on and once we are back in control of who is here deal with the fallout of closing the doors"
Making reference to "cleansing people" is not helpful and is chilling frankly.
Talking about putting bullets in Muslims heads is equally unacceptable
I haven't posted (and I am not usually backwards in coming forwards!) as I don't think it is respectful to those who have died.
I am disturbed that anyone who fails to engage in a rabid, hate filled rant or tries to push for a more balanced and considered response, which does not include ethnic cleansing, blaming an entire religious group comprising of many millions, or responding with knee jerk postings linking to frankly inflammatory sites "educating " us about Islam (interesting that certain of the posters seem so au fait with this material as to be able to pop it on the site at a moments notice) is branded an apologist!
I loathe ISIS and Islamism and think that they should be fought in every way available which doesn't compromise our freedom and democracy - I find the events in Paris abhorrent and shocking - I strongly advocate combatting hate preachers or mosques which allow such and all forms of promoting hatred and inspiring terrorism - I am not an apologist.
However certain posters have sought to use this tragedy to peddle fear and hatred and inflammatory and hate inspired material. I loathe seeing extreme Islamists on the street shouting abuse at passers by as much, as seeing cloth capped members of Britain First trying to intimidate Muslims. Both extremes add fuel to the fire - both need to be challenged vigorously - hence my flags.
Frankly I could search the web and get a dozen hate filled Islamist links and a dozen Islanphobic links within minutes - Neither are acceptable and neither should be posted on this site. Neither say anything about either most Muslims or most British , or most British Muslims.
Some of the assumptions made about those posters who have not worked themselves into a hate filled lather are pathetic! I am not brain dead, I loathe George Galloway (as opposed to loving him!) and because I can see a hate inspired link for what it is does not mean I am incapable of debate!
The link to the " book" put up by one poster for example, even the man who wrote it and runs the website says his friends and family don't want to have anything to do with him.
The link the the angry late middle aged white guy ranting on was equally offensive and hate filled.
Nuff said.
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the book. My wife who is Muslim, learned a lot and couldn't dispute any of it. Her only comment being that many of Mohammed's teachings were not meant to be interpreted literally. It is a legitimate book that has received great reviews on Amazon. Here is the description taken directly from the Amazon website:
Product Description The Story of Mohammed Islam Unveiled (Non-fiction full length book) Mohammed’s life story is the key which unlocks the complexities and confusion of the Islamic religion itself. Understanding his story provides a clear insight into Islam and the incredible importance this subject holds for our future. This is also the most amazing story never told. It is said that truth is stranger than fiction and you just could not have made this up. There are battles, murders, intrigues, rapes, assassinations, torture, intimidation, and much much more. Along the way Mohammed invented Jihad, the most effective system of conquest ever devised. This amazing book reads like an adventure story and brings the Islamic perspective to life in a way that is both fascinating and informative. Millions of people, both Muslims and non Muslims are tragically affected by aspects of Islam. More than 95% of all wars and armed conflict today involve Muslims. Muslims also suffer some of the highest rates of poverty, disease, hunger, illiteracy, environmental degradation and many more crippling disadvantages. By tackling the subject head on, this book gives the reader the ability to consider and discuss this subject from a position of knowledge, understanding and truth.
Your wife's religion is not relevant to the contents of this "book" - What does it to to the same highly literal view that Isis take of Islam and present it as the truth - equally dangerous for different reason IMO. That aside it is designed to show the danger of Islam and to frighten people - It has a clear purpose of stirring up hatred and suspicion.
I am actually an aethiest and am very well aware of the problems and pitfalls of the abrahamic religions and I have been vocally critical of these in the past - However some of them excellent posts on the subject of belief really brought home to me just how wrong I was to tar all members of a religion with the guilt of what may have been done in that name.
My opinions are;
(1) The overwhelming majority of Muslims to do not subscribe to the beliefs and practices of Isis and are as opposed to them as we are.
(2) Extemist views, and I am sorry but anything that encourages disproportionate fear and any hatred is wrong - on either side. It is, as others have said exactly the sort of reaction Isis want.
(3) Being staunchly opposed to Isis and extremism of any sort is not incompatible with freedom, democracy, human rights and good old fashioned British decency.
(4) I have flagged posts linking to sites which intend to whip up hatred and posts which have encouraged violence and "cleansing" . This is not stifling free speech but opposing hatred and predudice - I make no apologies for that.
(5) I have used lol , as do a great deal of lifers, to express disagreement.
Have read online that French police believe the two Syrian passports found had been bought in Turkey.
I'm sticking with my theory that the attackers holding Syrian passports were actually European citizens, in which case they could have returned to France by other means.
Also reported that an Egyptian passport found at the scene but later clarified that it belonged to one of the victims.
Regardless of whether that is true or not, surely you recognise how easy it would be for an IS extremist to pose as a refugee to get into Europe and the obvious security threats that poses.
Yes I understand but it's even easier for a French citizen to fly to France from Algeria, after travelling from Syria.
I understand the threat, but I think it's no less likely to be a threat if the EU bombed the refugee boats.
Have read online that French police believe the two Syrian passports found had been bought in Turkey.
I'm sticking with my theory that the attackers holding Syrian passports were actually European citizens, in which case they could have returned to France by other means.
Also reported that an Egyptian passport found at the scene but later clarified that it belonged to one of the victims.
I spose this theory that all of these attackers had European passports (and I'm not saying they never) also has zero terrorists entering Europe under the guise of "refugees"?
Have read online that French police believe the two Syrian passports found had been bought in Turkey.
I'm sticking with my theory that the attackers holding Syrian passports were actually European citizens, in which case they could have returned to France by other means.
Also reported that an Egyptian passport found at the scene but later clarified that it belonged to one of the victims.
I spose this theory that all of these attackers had European passports (and I'm not saying they never) also has zero terrorists entering Europe under the guise of "refugees"?
I didn't say that.
Very likely that if it is an aim of ISIS to get Syrian passports for European citizens to spread fear of refugees (and make Europe close its borders), then any such "refugee" will be sure to have his or her passport checked at every stop along the way. And carry the passport when carrying out a terrorist attack.
But as I said above, if they are European citizens, then blocking all refugees won't remove the threat.
My suggestion is that ISIS are using the weakness of Europe's borders to spread fear against refugees, but that they don't need Europe's borders to be weak in order to carry out their attacks.
Is it not the case that in France you have to carry an identity card at all times? Police are liable to stop people and ask for identity papers at any time. If you are are a foreigner it is advised that you carry your passport in case this happens. The idea that the attackers were carrying passports as part of some other conspiracy is rubbish. As is the idea that the motivation for these attacks is to provoke a backlash against Muslim and refugee communities in Europe.
I done care who takes more in this is not about %s it's about making sure we minimise the risks and we can do that by shutting the doors patrolling the entry points and every single illegal found sent straight back home, about time we looked after ourselves first and everyone else second instead of the other way round,
We have a brilliant natural defence we need to make the most of it, if it doesn't strike fear into you how easy it is for these people to pass through Europe and how easy ak47s are being used as the weapon of choice, since Michael Ryan how many ak47s have been used in mass murder here??
As for the snoopers charter crack on with it I ain't who they are snooping on so u don't view what they keep of mine
Have read online that French police believe the two Syrian passports found had been bought in Turkey.
I'm sticking with my theory that the attackers holding Syrian passports were actually European citizens, in which case they could have returned to France by other means.
Also reported that an Egyptian passport found at the scene but later clarified that it belonged to one of the victims.
I spose this theory that all of these attackers had European passports (and I'm not saying they never) also has zero terrorists entering Europe under the guise of "refugees"?
I didn't say that.
Very likely that if it is an aim of ISIS to get Syrian passports for European citizens to spread fear of refugees (and make Europe close its borders), then any such "refugee" will be sure to have his or her passport checked at every stop along the way. And carry the passport when carrying out a terrorist attack.
But as I said above, if they are European citizens, then blocking all refugees won't remove the threat.
My suggestion is that ISIS are using the weakness of Europe's borders to spread fear against refugees, but that they don't need Europe's borders to be weak in order to carry out their attacks.
But it will stop anymore entering or re-entering which would also be very helpful.
I think I'm missing the point on the rest of your post so I'll leave it at that.
Have read online that French police believe the two Syrian passports found had been bought in Turkey.
I'm sticking with my theory that the attackers holding Syrian passports were actually European citizens, in which case they could have returned to France by other means.
Also reported that an Egyptian passport found at the scene but later clarified that it belonged to one of the victims.
Regardless of whether that is true or not, surely you recognise how easy it would be for an IS extremist to pose as a refugee to get into Europe and the obvious security threats that poses.
I don't have any confidence in the British government being discerning enough to have the time or resources to filter out the ISIS Extremists with their false passports and papers or even their genuine passports and papers !
Over the last 25 years or so we have let Thousands of Somalians into the country as Refugees ? Considering Somalia was totally lawless and Warlords ruled similar to Afganistan, after the fall of President Siad Barre,in 1991 for 20 years no wonder the crime rate of the people was so high when they entered Britain, they were a mix of the good the bad, and the damn right dangerous. (lived in Penge at the time where many were housed back in 92)
If you feel that the 0.5 % chance of "Refugees" who become Militants from Syria in years to come, is a risk worth taking, i hope your children and Grandchildren agree that was a correct viewpoint. Only time will tell if the future generations believe we were too liberal or right to play the good Samaritan ?
The idea that the attackers were carrying passports as part of some other conspiracy is rubbish. As is the idea that the motivation for these attacks is to provoke a backlash against Muslim and refugee communities in Europe.
Suggest that you have a look at what ISIS are saying ( a quick Google of "grayzone/greyzone" will get you there) before you say what other people are saying is "rubbish".
Have read online that French police believe the two Syrian passports found had been bought in Turkey.
I'm sticking with my theory that the attackers holding Syrian passports were actually European citizens, in which case they could have returned to France by other means.
Also reported that an Egyptian passport found at the scene but later clarified that it belonged to one of the victims.
I spose this theory that all of these attackers had European passports (and I'm not saying they never) also has zero terrorists entering Europe under the guise of "refugees"?
I didn't say that.
Very likely that if it is an aim of ISIS to get Syrian passports for European citizens to spread fear of refugees (and make Europe close its borders), then any such "refugee" will be sure to have his or her passport checked at every stop along the way. And carry the passport when carrying out a terrorist attack.
But as I said above, if they are European citizens, then blocking all refugees won't remove the threat.
My suggestion is that ISIS are using the weakness of Europe's borders to spread fear against refugees, but that they don't need Europe's borders to be weak in order to carry out their attacks.
But it will stop anymore entering or re-entering which would also be very helpful.
I think I'm missing the point on the rest of your post so I'll leave it at that.
OK I don't understand what point you're making either (can see two very different possibilities from what you've said), so probably best to leave it there.
The idea that the attackers were carrying passports as part of some other conspiracy is rubbish. As is the idea that the motivation for these attacks is to provoke a backlash against Muslim and refugee communities in Europe.
Suggest that you have a look at what ISIS are saying ( a quick Google of "grayzone/greyzone" will get you there) before you say what other people are saying is "rubbish".
And you complain about other people putting up links to dodgy sites! Read about 3 sentences on there and it was enough to conclude it is run by a bunch of amateur know it all students who think they are the only people who truly know what is going on. I like to be informed by trusted and established news sites.
Country,Number of first time asylum applicants 2015 Germany,73120 Hungary,32810 Italy,15245 France,14770 Sweden,11415 Austria,9705 United Kingdom,7335 Belgium,3440 Bulgaria,3190 Greece,2610 Netherlands,2425 Spain,2035 Denmark,1505 Poland,1440 Finland,960 Ireland,625 Cyprus,430 Czech Republic,355 Malta,345 Romania,335
People keep on like we take the "burden" Germany have taken ten times what we have.
Germany, Hungary and Italy have plenty of room .. they all wiped out millions of untermench and foreigners, gypsies and Jews before and during WW II .. Merkel and her 'partners' seem to want to assuage German guilt over past atrocities and manifold sins by letting in anyone claiming to be a refugee from a war zone and to drag every other European country into the confession booth along with her .. if Germany wants to allow hundreds of thousands of 'refugees' in, so be it .. BUT Merkel has misjudged the mood of the German electorate and has pulled back from her St Theresa stance .. European borders and strict immigration controls are being re-introduced and enforced right now
How are these people not refugees? They're running from the exact type of people who performed this terrorist attack.
I'm sure you're the type of person who would've shrugged your shoulders at nazi Germany and the holocaust saying "not my problem".
you don't know me mush .. have never met me to my knowledge (I am sure I would have remembered a cretin like you) .. so KEEP YOUR SURE THINGS TO YOURSELF when it comes to my opinions and thoughts .. or perhaps you'd like to meet face to face and discuss my attitude towards Nazis ?
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the book. My wife who is Muslim, learned a lot and couldn't dispute any of it. Her only comment being that many of Mohammed's teachings were not meant to be interpreted literally. It is a legitimate book that has received great reviews on Amazon. Here is the description taken directly from the Amazon website:
Product Description The Story of Mohammed Islam Unveiled (Non-fiction full length book) Mohammed’s life story is the key which unlocks the complexities and confusion of the Islamic religion itself. Understanding his story provides a clear insight into Islam and the incredible importance this subject holds for our future. This is also the most amazing story never told. It is said that truth is stranger than fiction and you just could not have made this up. There are battles, murders, intrigues, rapes, assassinations, torture, intimidation, and much much more. Along the way Mohammed invented Jihad, the most effective system of conquest ever devised. This amazing book reads like an adventure story and brings the Islamic perspective to life in a way that is both fascinating and informative. Millions of people, both Muslims and non Muslims are tragically affected by aspects of Islam. More than 95% of all wars and armed conflict today involve Muslims. Muslims also suffer some of the highest rates of poverty, disease, hunger, illiteracy, environmental degradation and many more crippling disadvantages. By tackling the subject head on, this book gives the reader the ability to consider and discuss this subject from a position of knowledge, understanding and truth.
Your wife's religion is not relevant to the contents of this "book" - What does it to to the same highly literal view that Isis take of Islam and present it as the truth - equally dangerous for different reason IMO. That aside it is designed to show the danger of Islam and to frighten people - It has a clear purpose of stirring up hatred and suspicion.
I am actually an aethiest and am very well aware of the problems and pitfalls of the abrahamic religions and I have been vocally critical of these in the past - However some of them excellent posts on the subject of belief really brought home to me just how wrong I was to tar all members of a religion with the guilt of what may have been done in that name.
My opinions are;
(1) The overwhelming majority of Muslims to do not subscribe to the beliefs and practices of Isis and are as opposed to them as we are.
(2) Extemist views, and I am sorry but anything that encourages disproportionate fear and any hatred is wrong - on either side. It is, as others have said exactly the sort of reaction Isis want.
(3) Being staunchly opposed to Isis and extremism of any sort is not incompatible with freedom, democracy, human rights and good old fashioned British decency.
(4) I have flagged posts linking to sites which intend to whip up hatred and posts which have encouraged violence and "cleansing" . This is not stifling free speech but opposing hatred and predudice - I make no apologies for that.
(5) I have used lol , as do a great deal of lifers, to express disagreement.
Is that clear enough??!!!
Eh !! Did I ever complain that you weren't making yourself clear? Why the anger? For what it's worth I too am an atheist, but on marrying in 95 very nearly became Muslim myself, as is required when one marries a muslim lady. I wasn't comfortable then and I couldn't go through with it. Having educated myself far more in the intervening years, I am now so glad that I resisted. You have said that what this book does is to "take the same highly literal view that Isis take of Islam and present it as the truth" Can you see the irony of your statement? That is exactly what Mohammed advocated ie You can only believe what is in writing in the Koran. So is it any wonder that ISIS believe what is written in the Koran? Given that my wife was brought up reading the Koran and at one stage could even recite it in Arabic as a child, I tend to trust her opinion of the book more than yours and consider her view extremely relevant. The book explains what it is that these nutters latch onto. That is not something that we should ignore, it is the very crux of the problem. We need to gain an understanding of what it is that attracts them. To dismiss this book as being Islamophobic hatred, is to sweep the problem under the carpet and hope it goes away. It wont. No one on here is trying to encourage violence or whip up hatred, we are all big enough and ugly enough to make up our own minds. For me, that involves reading a lot and listening a lot from diverse sources before forming an opinion. Awaiting your next extremely tiresome lol or flag!
I actually think the only World leader talking sense is Putin. The West is in the same position as it was in WW2. That is, side with the Russians in defeating Isis or continue watching this mad mob try and take over the World. In WW2 of course, we had the choice of Stalin or Hitler.
What annoys me is that people are acting surprised that these shooters disguised themselves as refugees.
ISIS made it clear that they would exploit the West's generousity. Braver sections of the media have already pointed out that only 20% of those travelling from the Middle East were genuine refugees.
Instead of everyone getting their dicks out and trying to prove they're the most humane person, a rigerous system of checking people needs to be put in place.
Of course Germany has already done most of the damage already. They're stupid fucking idiots for letting in so many people. With EU passports they can travel anywhere and that includes Britain.
Comments
The knee-jerk reaction is for a noisy minority to shout about the terrible numbers ("swarm", anyone?) of refugees coming to safety in Europe from the violence in Syria. Easy conclusion, right?
Only, stop and think for a second, about what ISIL want us to think. They want division. They want to inflame hatred. They want refugees who have the audacity to leave Syria to be punished by having Europeans turn against them. ISIL believes that the an act of betrayal is perpetrated by Syrians turning their back (literally and figuratively) on Syria and moving - for safety, compassion, security - to Europe.
They want Europeans to turn against refugees. They want Europeans to make it clear refugees aren't welcome. They want Europeans to be loud in their intolerance, hatred and fear of refugees.
Otherwise - and this points back to the one, significant piece of evidence - why would a suicide bomber carry his passport? Why was his passport found on what remained of this miserable specimen's body? Was he planning to make an international trip later in the day? Of course not - he was planning to die.
Happily, his intention to create division, fear and hatred - like everything else in the rest of this pathetic individual's life - has proved to be a failure.
For me, refugees will always be welcome.
Product Description
The Story of Mohammed Islam Unveiled
(Non-fiction full length book)
Mohammed’s life story is the key which unlocks the complexities and confusion of the Islamic religion itself. Understanding his story provides a clear insight into Islam and the incredible importance this subject holds for our future.
This is also the most amazing story never told. It is said that truth is stranger than fiction and you just could not have made this up. There are battles, murders, intrigues, rapes, assassinations, torture, intimidation, and much much more. Along the way Mohammed invented Jihad, the most effective system of conquest ever devised.
This amazing book reads like an adventure story and brings the Islamic perspective to life in a way that is both fascinating and informative.
Millions of people, both Muslims and non Muslims are tragically affected by aspects of Islam. More than 95% of all wars and armed conflict today involve Muslims. Muslims also suffer some of the highest rates of poverty, disease, hunger, illiteracy, environmental degradation and many more crippling disadvantages. By tackling the subject head on, this book gives the reader the ability to consider and discuss this subject from a position of knowledge, understanding and truth.
The enemies to freedom: that's what they are, whether they are called
ISIS or Al Qaeda. I wonder what the next reincarnation of Islamist militants will be called.
Because we are a democratic Country ( i know it doesn't feel like it at times !)
changes take a long time to happen, BUT we are free to criticize our governments and leaders without the fear of disappearing or being killed. Not perfect and deeply flawed, but within reason we have got freedom of speech even if the powers that be, would prefer it to be muffled( Freedom of the press)
Islamic Millitants are a medieval or Medi evil ideology,
They are still in the time of Saladin and Richard the 1st.
The Crusades are still on going.
"The infidels must be defeated"
You Can't beat an enemy within, which believe this,
Let alone the newly imported ones who hate our values and our freedoms.
We can never really be safe on our streets because as the IRA spokes person said
after the Bomb at Brighton 30 years ago:
"The security forces have to be lucky every time;
We only have to get lucky once"
Chilling words that still apply.
RIP to the innocents who have died.
Rot in Hell or the dark void to the perpetrators of this outrage.
With regards to the refugees, why are the young fit men not pleading with the west for arms to fight the disease on their own doorstep? Why are they just running away to let Europe fight their battles for them? Surely a true refugee would be happy enough with the first safe haven they come to, not walking hundreds and thousands of miles in search of better job prospects.
We need to be very wary of incoming people and the only way is to close all borders immediately and have a holding area to allow time to vet these people.
This disease is already among us, we know that, we need time to weed it out.
and I hasten to add. They are probably shit scared of ISIS.
I'm sticking with my theory that the attackers holding Syrian passports were actually European citizens, in which case they could have returned to France by other means.
Also reported that an Egyptian passport found at the scene but later clarified that it belonged to one of the victims.
I am actually an aethiest and am very well aware of the problems and pitfalls of the abrahamic religions and I have been vocally critical of these in the past - However some of them excellent posts on the subject of belief really brought home to me just how wrong I was to tar all members of a religion with the guilt of what may have been done in that name.
My opinions are;
(1) The overwhelming majority of Muslims to do not subscribe to the beliefs and practices of Isis and are as opposed to them as we are.
(2) Extemist views, and I am sorry but anything that encourages disproportionate fear and any hatred is wrong - on either side. It is, as others have said exactly the sort of reaction Isis want.
(3) Being staunchly opposed to Isis and extremism of any sort is not incompatible with freedom, democracy, human rights and good old fashioned British decency.
(4) I have flagged posts linking to sites which intend to whip up hatred and posts which have encouraged violence and "cleansing" . This is not stifling free speech but opposing hatred and predudice - I make no apologies for that.
(5) I have used lol , as do a great deal of lifers, to express disagreement.
Is that clear enough??!!!
I understand the threat, but I think it's no less likely to be a threat if the EU bombed the refugee boats.
ISIS want Europe to shut the door to refugees.
Very likely that if it is an aim of ISIS to get Syrian passports for European citizens to spread fear of refugees (and make Europe close its borders), then any such "refugee" will be sure to have his or her passport checked at every stop along the way. And carry the passport when carrying out a terrorist attack.
But as I said above, if they are European citizens, then blocking all refugees won't remove the threat.
My suggestion is that ISIS are using the weakness of Europe's borders to spread fear against refugees, but that they don't need Europe's borders to be weak in order to carry out their attacks.
We have a brilliant natural defence we need to make the most of it, if it doesn't strike fear into you how easy it is for these people to pass through Europe and how easy ak47s are being used as the weapon of choice, since Michael Ryan how many ak47s have been used in mass murder here??
As for the snoopers charter crack on with it I ain't who they are snooping on so u don't view what they keep of mine
I think I'm missing the point on the rest of your post so I'll leave it at that.
Over the last 25 years or so we have let Thousands of Somalians into the country as Refugees ? Considering Somalia was totally lawless and Warlords ruled similar to Afganistan, after the fall of President Siad Barre,in 1991 for 20 years no wonder the crime rate of the people was so high when they entered Britain, they were a mix of the good the bad, and the damn right dangerous. (lived in Penge at the time where many were housed back in 92)
If you feel that the 0.5 % chance of "Refugees" who become Militants from Syria in years to come, is a risk worth taking, i hope your children and Grandchildren agree
that was a correct viewpoint.
Only time will tell if the future generations believe we were too liberal or right to
play the good Samaritan ?
And you complain about other people putting up links to dodgy sites! Read about 3 sentences on there and it was enough to conclude it is run by a bunch of amateur know it all students who think they are the only people who truly know what is going on. I like to be informed by trusted and established news sites.
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the book. My wife who is Muslim, learned a lot and couldn't dispute any of it. Her only comment being that many of Mohammed's teachings were not meant to be interpreted literally. It is a legitimate book that has received great reviews on Amazon. Here is the description taken directly from the Amazon website:
Product Description
The Story of Mohammed Islam Unveiled
(Non-fiction full length book)
Mohammed’s life story is the key which unlocks the complexities and confusion of the Islamic religion itself. Understanding his story provides a clear insight into Islam and the incredible importance this subject holds for our future.
This is also the most amazing story never told. It is said that truth is stranger than fiction and you just could not have made this up. There are battles, murders, intrigues, rapes, assassinations, torture, intimidation, and much much more. Along the way Mohammed invented Jihad, the most effective system of conquest ever devised.
This amazing book reads like an adventure story and brings the Islamic perspective to life in a way that is both fascinating and informative.
Millions of people, both Muslims and non Muslims are tragically affected by aspects of Islam. More than 95% of all wars and armed conflict today involve Muslims. Muslims also suffer some of the highest rates of poverty, disease, hunger, illiteracy, environmental degradation and many more crippling disadvantages. By tackling the subject head on, this book gives the reader the ability to consider and discuss this subject from a position of knowledge, understanding and truth.
Your wife's religion is not relevant to the contents of this "book" - What does it to to the same highly literal view that Isis take of Islam and present it as the truth - equally dangerous for different reason IMO. That aside it is designed to show the danger of Islam and to frighten people - It has a clear purpose of stirring up hatred and suspicion.
I am actually an aethiest and am very well aware of the problems and pitfalls of the abrahamic religions and I have been vocally critical of these in the past - However some of them excellent posts on the subject of belief really brought home to me just how wrong I was to tar all members of a religion with the guilt of what may have been done in that name.
My opinions are;
(1) The overwhelming majority of Muslims to do not subscribe to the beliefs and practices of Isis and are as opposed to them as we are.
(2) Extemist views, and I am sorry but anything that encourages disproportionate fear and any hatred is wrong - on either side. It is, as others have said exactly the sort of reaction Isis want.
(3) Being staunchly opposed to Isis and extremism of any sort is not incompatible with freedom, democracy, human rights and good old fashioned British decency.
(4) I have flagged posts linking to sites which intend to whip up hatred and posts which have encouraged violence and "cleansing" . This is not stifling free speech but opposing hatred and predudice - I make no apologies for that.
(5) I have used lol , as do a great deal of lifers, to express disagreement.
Is that clear enough??!!!
Eh !! Did I ever complain that you weren't making yourself clear? Why the anger?
For what it's worth I too am an atheist, but on marrying in 95 very nearly became Muslim myself, as is required when one marries a muslim lady. I wasn't comfortable then and I couldn't go through with it. Having educated myself far more in the intervening years, I am now so glad that I resisted.
You have said that what this book does is to "take the same highly literal view that Isis take of Islam and present it as the truth" Can you see the irony of your statement? That is exactly what Mohammed advocated ie You can only believe what is in writing in the Koran. So is it any wonder that ISIS believe what is written in the Koran?
Given that my wife was brought up reading the Koran and at one stage could even recite it in Arabic as a child, I tend to trust her opinion of the book more than yours and consider her view extremely relevant. The book explains what it is that these nutters latch onto. That is not something that we should ignore, it is the very crux of the problem. We need to gain an understanding of what it is that attracts them. To dismiss this book as being Islamophobic hatred, is to sweep the problem under the carpet and hope it goes away. It wont.
No one on here is trying to encourage violence or whip up hatred, we are all big enough and ugly enough to make up our own minds. For me, that involves reading a lot and listening a lot from diverse sources before forming an opinion.
Awaiting your next extremely tiresome lol or flag!
The West is in the same position as it was in WW2. That is, side with the Russians in defeating Isis or continue watching this mad mob try and take over the World. In WW2 of course, we had the choice of Stalin or Hitler.
ISIS made it clear that they would exploit the West's generousity. Braver sections of the media have already pointed out that only 20% of those travelling from the Middle East were genuine refugees.
Instead of everyone getting their dicks out and trying to prove they're the most humane person, a rigerous system of checking people needs to be put in place.
Of course Germany has already done most of the damage already. They're stupid fucking idiots for letting in so many people. With EU passports they can travel anywhere and that includes Britain.