I would imagine, like the rest of us, she is greatly saddened about what is going on and feeling for the people killed and their friends and families.
If you are trying to link the large influx of migrants into Europe with people who are terrorists and murderers then that is plain wrong. We can discuss and argue and disagree about the rights and wrongs of migration policy. And we can argue about whether those people are being forced to move due to poverty and danger or for economic reasons. But to equate them with murderous thugs is stupid.
I wasn't wrong was I? It's already happening, more to come I'm sure
No. You are wrong. But I don't think you understand my point.
Interesting, if I'm wrong please explain why.
Also can you explain how the the Syrian terrorist posing as a refugee, who Greek officials have confirmed passed through Greece in October has no link to the large influx of migrants into Europe?
My point is IS extremists are manipulating the migrant crisis to get into Europe and Merkel was mad to encourage them.
I would rather have a handful of extremists getting in among thousands and thousands of refugees who find safety, than block them and send those thousands to their inevitable deaths.
And there has been massacre after massacre on a scale we couldn't even begin to imagine in Syria.
I don't know whether people just don't get it or have been so influenced by right wing ideology that they don't care. But a Syrian life is of no less value than a Briton's.
If you're ever in doubt about that, go look up the picture of the two year old refugee washed up on a beach, it brings it closer to home than most of us would find comfortable, and then try to justify otherwise.
Absolutely agree, the vast majority of terrorists are national the country they attack anyway. I think they should be checked and monitored more closely for example have their internet activity tracked etc but not sent away to certain death. Don't forget ISIS want us to send away refuges so they have nowhere to run.
So, if we sealed our borders and let nobody else in, there would be no terrorist killings in the uk? There aren't any home grown people to do that? We could refuse to get involved with any of this... No refugees, ni firegin aid but also no bombing of other countries. We could even stop selling weapons.
But the vast majoriry are either trained in the middle east (to use weopons or create bombs) and then return back to the UK with their british passport...or those coming to thw UK can then train the radicalised british nationals. I am not sayin it will completely stop the problem, but it will certainly help. First of all it will reduce the actual numbers entering, and will therefore stop the resources of our security services being spread so thinly. They are doing an amazing job, but we need to help them as much as possible in order to keep us, the british public (athiests, christians, muslims, jews, others) safe.
I am all for helping law abiding syrians, but charity starts at home. We need to look after the people of this country as a priority.
I would imagine, like the rest of us, she is greatly saddened about what is going on and feeling for the people killed and their friends and families.
If you are trying to link the large influx of migrants into Europe with people who are terrorists and murderers then that is plain wrong. We can discuss and argue and disagree about the rights and wrongs of migration policy. And we can argue about whether those people are being forced to move due to poverty and danger or for economic reasons. But to equate them with murderous thugs is stupid.
I wasn't wrong was I? It's already happening, more to come I'm sure
No. You are wrong. But I don't think you understand my point.
Interesting, if I'm wrong please explain why.
Also can you explain how the the Syrian terrorist posing as a refugee, who Greek officials have confirmed passed through Greece in October has no link to the large influx of migrants into Europe?
My point is IS extremists are manipulating the migrant crisis to get into Europe and Merkel was mad to encourage them.
I would rather have a handful of extremists getting in among thousands and thousands of refugees who find safety, than block them and send those thousands to their inevitable deaths.
And there has been massacre after massacre on a scale we couldn't even begin to imagine in Syria.
I don't know whether people just don't get it or have been so influenced by right wing ideology that they don't care. But a Syrian life is of no less value than a Briton's.
If you're ever in doubt about that, go look up the picture of the two year old refugee washed up on a beach, it brings it closer to home than most of us would find comfortable, and then try to justify otherwise.
Absolutely agree, the vast majority of terrorists are national the country they attack anyway. I think they should be checked and monitored more closely for example have their internet activity tracked etc but not sent away to certain death. Don't forget ISIS want us to send away refuges so they have nowhere to run.
You think ISIS really want to target refugees? I reckon they don't give a toss about refugees, if they did they'd have bombed a refugee camp rather than restaurants, football stadiums and theatres of civilians. I don't honestly know what ISIS want
I would imagine, like the rest of us, she is greatly saddened about what is going on and feeling for the people killed and their friends and families.
If you are trying to link the large influx of migrants into Europe with people who are terrorists and murderers then that is plain wrong. We can discuss and argue and disagree about the rights and wrongs of migration policy. And we can argue about whether those people are being forced to move due to poverty and danger or for economic reasons. But to equate them with murderous thugs is stupid.
I wasn't wrong was I? It's already happening, more to come I'm sure
No. You are wrong. But I don't think you understand my point.
Interesting, if I'm wrong please explain why.
Also can you explain how the the Syrian terrorist posing as a refugee, who Greek officials have confirmed passed through Greece in October has no link to the large influx of migrants into Europe?
My point is IS extremists are manipulating the migrant crisis to get into Europe and Merkel was mad to encourage them.
I would rather have a handful of extremists getting in among thousands and thousands of refugees who find safety, than block them and send those thousands to their inevitable deaths.
And there has been massacre after massacre on a scale we couldn't even begin to imagine in Syria.
I don't know whether people just don't get it or have been so influenced by right wing ideology that they don't care. But a Syrian life is of no less value than a Briton's.
If you're ever in doubt about that, go look up the picture of the two year old refugee washed up on a beach, it brings it closer to home than most of us would find comfortable, and then try to justify otherwise.
Absolutely agree, the vast majority of terrorists are national the country they attack anyway. I think they should be checked and monitored more closely for example have their internet activity tracked etc but not sent away to certain death. Don't forget ISIS want us to send away refuges so they have nowhere to run.
You think ISIS really want to target refugees? I reckon they don't give a toss about refugees, if they did they'd have bombed a refugee camp rather than restaurants, football stadiums and theatres of civilians. I don't honestly know what ISIS want
They are targeting refugees they are killing thousands every day unless they somehow flee, giving them nowhere to run means they will return to be inevitably killed. Isis kill more fellow Muslims for not adhering to their ideology than they do people in the western world.
I would imagine, like the rest of us, she is greatly saddened about what is going on and feeling for the people killed and their friends and families.
If you are trying to link the large influx of migrants into Europe with people who are terrorists and murderers then that is plain wrong. We can discuss and argue and disagree about the rights and wrongs of migration policy. And we can argue about whether those people are being forced to move due to poverty and danger or for economic reasons. But to equate them with murderous thugs is stupid.
I wasn't wrong was I? It's already happening, more to come I'm sure
No. You are wrong. But I don't think you understand my point.
Interesting, if I'm wrong please explain why.
Also can you explain how the the Syrian terrorist posing as a refugee, who Greek officials have confirmed passed through Greece in October has no link to the large influx of migrants into Europe?
My point is IS extremists are manipulating the migrant crisis to get into Europe and Merkel was mad to encourage them.
I would rather have a handful of extremists getting in among thousands and thousands of refugees who find safety, than block them and send those thousands to their inevitable deaths.
And there has been massacre after massacre on a scale we couldn't even begin to imagine in Syria.
I don't know whether people just don't get it or have been so influenced by right wing ideology that they don't care. But a Syrian life is of no less value than a Briton's.
If you're ever in doubt about that, go look up the picture of the two year old refugee washed up on a beach, it brings it closer to home than most of us would find comfortable, and then try to justify otherwise.
Is that the two year old whose family fled from Turkey?
A Syrians life is worth less to me than any member of my family's
I wish I had more Compassion I ain't a horrible man but I would rather me and my family and that of my friends and colleagues were safe over anyone else
I wish I had more Compassion I ain't a horrible man but I would rather me and my family and that of my friends and colleagues were safe over anyone else
So, if we sealed our borders and let nobody else in, there would be no terrorist killings in the uk? There aren't any home grown people to do that? We could refuse to get involved with any of this... No refugees, ni firegin aid but also no bombing of other countries. We could even stop selling weapons.
A result of quick mass immigration where as the people that come here stay within the own community they are from so have no need to integrate. The younger generations of people who have come here having no true identity but would rather show loyalty to there family's past rather than the country that they are living in and some are born in. There are a lot of Muslims that love this country and way of life but there are also a lot of Muslims that hate us.
I would rather not have a refugee here if that was a 1% chance that a terrorist could enter. The safety of my children, family, friends and fellow countrymen and women more of a priority. Most sane people wouldn't let strangers stay in there house.
I read this somewhere else... The reason you go home and lock your door is not because you hate everyone outside but to keep the ones you love inside safe.
That aside, I'm not entirely convinced that one of the terrorist from Friday was a Syrian refugee that was carrying there passport? I thought most were coming over with no documents. Seems a bit convenient.
Confirmed that one of the attackers was a French citizen and known to the French security forces.
And two had syrian passports...
Why would you bring your passport to a suicide mission? The most likely reason is because you want that to be found.
Syrian passports are very easy to get. The Prime Minister of the Netherlands has one (bought for him by a journalist). I think it's likely that the attackers holding the passports are European citizens and could have got back to France by other means (eg regular flights from Algeria).
Lots of non-French politicians making statements about what the police know/think. Using the tragedy for their own means.
ISIS have published their intentions. And the "greyzone" is disappearing.
Protests in Bahrain today against the terrorist attacks in Paris and Beirut.
147 feared dead in Kenya this morning. It's a sad truth that these terror attacks are far more common than most people are aware of as it's only the huge ones and the ones in Europe that make the headlines.
Its frightening what comes out from friends and family who I have known for most of my life in a time like this. People who I considered normal human beings who have unfortunately taken these tragic events to act like total dick heads this weekend. An example of a Facebook update I have seen along with the responses.....
FRIEND - We need to ban all religion.
ME - Bloody hell, my kid was playing a wise man in his nativity play last year. I better lock him in his room tonight so he can't escape and blow up a plane.
147 feared dead in Kenya this morning. It's a sad truth that these terror attacks are far more common than most people are aware of as it's only the huge ones and the ones in Europe that make the headlines.
147 feared dead in Kenya this morning. It's a sad truth that these terror attacks are far more common than most people are aware of as it's only the huge ones and the ones in Europe that make the headlines.
The apologists on this site make me sick. People who would clearly consider themselves to be liberal and progressive have a massive blind spot when it comes to conservative Islam for fear of being seen as racist. It's time the zealoted defenders of intolerance asked themselves some hard questions.
Santa this really isn't helpful.
An apologist would be someone who defends or excuses what these murderers did.
I've read through this thread and posted on it once before and I haven't read anything that in any way tried to defend or excuse these barbarous attacks. If you believe otherwise then I think you owe to the rest of us to 'out' these apologists by finding and posting what they said.
If you can't do that then - because this is a very emotive and serious subject - I suggest you think more carefully and responsibly before you post.
I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities. I will of course limit all future comments to the narrow range of views you find acceptable.
From which I take it that you're unable or unwilling to try to produce any evidence (names/quotes) for your original assertion that 'apologists' for the Paris murderers have posted on this thread (“The apologists on this site make me sick”) - so instead you resort to cheap sarcasm.
But this isn't about differing 'views' – 'narrow' or otherwise – but about specific accusations by you that other posters (who you don't identify) are “apologists” for the Paris attackers and “zealoted defenders of intolerance”, for which you haven't offered a shred of evidence.
The sad fact is there are people on this site who would rather put the Human rights of suspected terrorists above the safety of normal law abiding citizens. That fact is clearly demonstrated in this thread which now makes chilling reading:
In their perfect little world, those terrorists in France could not have been locked up merely for being "suspected", you know "innocent until proved guilty" and all that. Therefore such attacks are unpreventable, but thankfully those terrorists went to paradise with their Human Rights intact, even if their bodies were not.
That thread was about imprisonment for so long without trial. Not chilling reading, but people promoting British or western values. I really do get the notion of 'suspected' but do we now have a blanket sweep of all Muslims, and close all Mosques because we suspect stuff? It is unworkable isn't it? The IRA were very effective terrorists, and were able to continue for years because by it's nature terrorism is concealed amongst the innocent. It was however possible to negotiate a settlement with Republican forces, which does not look possible with ISIS, and essentially it was the terrorists themselves who stopped, not because they were stopped by force, or by internment without trial. Lifers who wrote on the thread you quoted, saying imprisonment without trial was wrong are not apologists or supporters of terror, but people who want to maintain the values many fight for, fight against terrorism for.
I am not at all sure how we beat terror, it may take many years to do it, but it is about the mindset of a person who will sacrifice their own lives along with their victims. We have to keep on keeping on using technology and the power of finance to tackle this terrible problem, but there will always exist such people, even like right wingers such as Brevik as much as Islamic terrorists and they must be denied the means to do what they do.
As the news continues to emerge from Paris it is difficult to keep a cool head, and maybe an impassioned response is somehow appropriate. The horror in Paris or Pakistan, or Beirut, or London is almost too much to endure, but it won't stop until the thinking processes of the terrorists is changed because they can't all be locked up.
I hate these people who threaten our safety and security. Is this what we have to look forward to for the rest of our lives. You bomb us we will bomb you and so on. I have no answers but then again I am not paid to find any. Surely, it is time to look for a different approach because what we are doing isn't working.
147 feared dead in Kenya this morning. It's a sad truth that these terror attacks are far more common than most people are aware of as it's only the huge ones and the ones in Europe that make the headlines.
Some of the comments on this thread is utterly astounding. People proudly saying we should close our borders to refugees from Syria, when what happened in Paris is something they had to deal with every single day. I can understand wanting to keep your family safe but there comes a point when are you really making the world safer for your children by propagating such selfishness? Isn't that what's wrong with the world today? Isn't that creating further divisions in our country?
I'd rather live in Liberty than cower behind walls along our borders. The way this country is heading with the snoopers charter etc and the seemingly widespread support for it is making me think of moving to somewhere like Denmark. I love this country, I love London. But there will get to a point if things keep going like this in the next 20-30 years where I'm not going to be comfortable with the kind of things the security services etc get up to.
The world is the safest it's ever been, and yet we're being told it's more and more dangerous for the aim of more surveillance.
Those who desire security over Liberty deserve neither.
I presume many of the rich Arab Muslim states, with endless resources and plenty of space have changed their mind on allowing fellow muslim refugees into their country?
Refugee population by country or territory of asylum 2011-2015
Kuwait - 611 Oman - 151 Qatar - 133 Saudi Arabia - 534 UAE - 417 UK - 117,100
I presume many of the rich Arab Muslim states, with endless resources and plenty of space have changed their mind on allowing fellow muslim refugees into their country?
Refugee population by country or territory of asylum 2011-2015
Kuwait - 611 Oman - 151 Qatar - 133 Saudi Arabia - 534 UAE - 417 UK - 117,100
What is your point, that we align ourselves with the lowest common denominators?
I presume many of the rich Arab Muslim states, with endless resources and plenty of space have changed their mind on allowing fellow muslim refugees into their country?
Refugee population by country or territory of asylum 2011-2015
Kuwait - 611 Oman - 151 Qatar - 133 Saudi Arabia - 534 UAE - 417 UK - 117,100
Gary, what point are you trying to make? If it's that "rich Gulf states are little shits" then I think the only people who would disagree with you are businesses that depend on them (eg weapons industry) and politicians who depend on those businesses.
@IAgree, I keep seeing you pop up on this thread. You haven't had much to say but you're certainly throwing those flags around. There's been very little that I would describe as abusive on this thread, so my question is why do you feel it's appropriate to try to censor posts that you don't like? If you disagree with people then fine, tell them, but just calling people abusive because they don't agree with you and staying quiet otherwise isn't very conducive to a debate
Some of the comments on this thread is utterly astounding. People proudly saying we should close our borders to refugees from Syria, when what happened in Paris is something they had to deal with every single day. I can understand wanting to keep your family safe but there comes a point when are you really making the world safer for your children by propagating such selfishness? Isn't that what's wrong with the world today? Isn't that creating further divisions in our country?
I'd rather live in Liberty than cower behind walls along our borders. The way this country is heading with the snoopers charter etc and the seemingly widespread support for it is making me think of moving to somewhere like Denmark. I love this country, I love London. But there will get to a point if things keep going like this in the next 20-30 years where I'm not going to be comfortable with the kind of things the security services etc get up to.
The world is the safest it's ever been, and yet we're being told it's more and more dangerous for the aim of more surveillance.
Those who desire security over Liberty deserve neither.
So to show how disgusted you are with UK policy towards the refugees you're going to move to a country which is doing all it can to avoid taking in the very same refugees. Wow that'll show em.
Comments
I am all for helping law abiding syrians, but charity starts at home. We need to look after the people of this country as a priority.
I reckon they don't give a toss about refugees, if they did they'd have bombed a refugee camp rather than restaurants, football stadiums and theatres of civilians.
I don't honestly know what ISIS want
A Syrians life is worth less to me than any member of my family's
A result of quick mass immigration where as the people that come here stay within the own community they are from so have no need to integrate. The younger generations of people who have come here having no true identity but would rather show loyalty to there family's past rather than the country that they are living in and some are born in.
There are a lot of Muslims that love this country and way of life but there are also a lot of Muslims that hate us.
I would rather not have a refugee here if that was a 1% chance that a terrorist could enter. The safety of my children, family, friends and fellow countrymen and women more of a priority. Most sane people wouldn't let strangers stay in there house.
I read this somewhere else... The reason you go home and lock your door is not because you hate everyone outside but to keep the ones you love inside safe.
That aside, I'm not entirely convinced that one of the terrorist from Friday was a Syrian refugee that was carrying there passport? I thought most were coming over with no documents. Seems a bit convenient.
Syrian passports are very easy to get. The Prime Minister of the Netherlands has one (bought for him by a journalist). I think it's likely that the attackers holding the passports are European citizens and could have got back to France by other means (eg regular flights from Algeria).
Lots of non-French politicians making statements about what the police know/think. Using the tragedy for their own means.
ISIS have published their intentions. And the "greyzone" is disappearing.
Protests in Bahrain today against the terrorist attacks in Paris and Beirut.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32169080
FRIEND - We need to ban all religion.
ME - Bloody hell, my kid was playing a wise man in his nativity play last year. I better lock him in his room tonight so he can't escape and blow up a plane.
ME - So how to do propose regulating this ban?
FRIEND - lie detector to test faith.
Fuck me.
I really do get the notion of 'suspected' but do we now have a blanket sweep of all Muslims, and close all Mosques because we suspect stuff? It is unworkable isn't it?
The IRA were very effective terrorists, and were able to continue for years because by it's nature terrorism is concealed amongst the innocent.
It was however possible to negotiate a settlement with Republican forces, which does not look possible with ISIS, and essentially it was the terrorists themselves who stopped, not because they were stopped by force, or by internment without trial.
Lifers who wrote on the thread you quoted, saying imprisonment without trial was wrong are not apologists or supporters of terror, but people who want to maintain the values many fight for, fight against terrorism for.
I am not at all sure how we beat terror, it may take many years to do it, but it is about the mindset of a person who will sacrifice their own lives along with their victims. We have to keep on keeping on using technology and the power of finance to tackle this terrible problem, but there will always exist such people, even like right wingers such as Brevik as much as Islamic terrorists and they must be denied the means to do what they do.
As the news continues to emerge from Paris it is difficult to keep a cool head, and maybe an impassioned response is somehow appropriate. The horror in Paris or Pakistan, or Beirut, or London is almost too much to endure, but it won't stop until the thinking processes of the terrorists is changed because they can't all be locked up.
I'd rather live in Liberty than cower behind walls along our borders. The way this country is heading with the snoopers charter etc and the seemingly widespread support for it is making me think of moving to somewhere like Denmark. I love this country, I love London. But there will get to a point if things keep going like this in the next 20-30 years where I'm not going to be comfortable with the kind of things the security services etc get up to.
The world is the safest it's ever been, and yet we're being told it's more and more dangerous for the aim of more surveillance.
Those who desire security over Liberty deserve neither.
Refugee population by country or territory of asylum 2011-2015
Kuwait - 611
Oman - 151
Qatar - 133
Saudi Arabia - 534
UAE - 417
UK - 117,100
If it's that "rich Gulf states are little shits" then I think the only people who would disagree with you are businesses that depend on them (eg weapons industry) and politicians who depend on those businesses.