What annoys me is that people are acting surprised that these shooters disguised themselves as refugees.
ISIS made it clear that they would exploit the West's generousity. Braver sections of the media have already pointed out that only 20% of those travelling from the Middle East were genuine refugees.
Instead of everyone getting their dicks out and trying to prove they're the most humane person, a rigerous system of checking people needs to be put in place.
Of course Germany has already done most of the damage already. They're stupid fucking idiots for letting in so many people. With EU passports they can travel anywhere and that includes Britain.
I think some on here would be happy with the Border Force stopping each one and asking "Are you a terrorist" and then letting them in once they say no lol
@IAgree, I keep seeing you pop up on this thread. You haven't had much to say but you're certainly throwing those flags around. There's been very little that I would describe as abusive on this thread, so my question is why do you feel it's appropriate to try to censor posts that you don't like? If you disagree with people then fine, tell them, but just calling people abusive because they don't agree with you and staying quiet otherwise isn't very conducive to a debate
Sorry but I feel proudly uncomfortable with posters advocating;
"Then the security services can deal with those here already and cleanse them from the houses, flats estates and roads we all live on and once we are back in control of who is here deal with the fallout of closing the doors"
Making reference to "cleansing people" is not helpful and is chilling frankly.
Talking about putting bullets in Muslims heads is equally unacceptable
I haven't posted (and I am not usually backwards in coming forwards!) as I don't think it is respectful to those who have died.
I am disturbed that anyone who fails to engage in a rabid, hate filled rant or tries to push for a more balanced and considered response, which does not include ethnic cleansing, blaming an entire religious group comprising of many millions, or responding with knee jerk postings linking to frankly inflammatory sites "educating " us about Islam (interesting that certain of the posters seem so au fait with this material as to be able to pop it on the site at a moments notice) is branded an apologist!
I loathe ISIS and Islamism and think that they should be fought in every way available which doesn't compromise our freedom and democracy - I find the events in Paris abhorrent and shocking - I strongly advocate combatting hate preachers or mosques which allow such and all forms of promoting hatred and inspiring terrorism - I am not an apologist.
However certain posters have sought to use this tragedy to peddle fear and hatred and inflammatory and hate inspired material. I loathe seeing extreme Islamists on the street shouting abuse at passers by as much, as seeing cloth capped members of Britain First trying to intimidate Muslims. Both extremes add fuel to the fire - both need to be challenged vigorously - hence my flags.
Frankly I could search the web and get a dozen hate filled Islamist links and a dozen Islanphobic links within minutes - Neither are acceptable and neither should be posted on this site. Neither say anything about either most Muslims or most British , or most British Muslims.
Some of the assumptions made about those posters who have not worked themselves into a hate filled lather are pathetic! I am not brain dead, I loathe George Galloway (as opposed to loving him!) and because I can see a hate inspired link for what it is does not mean I am incapable of debate!
The link to the " book" put up by one poster for example, even the man who wrote it and runs the website says his friends and family don't want to have anything to do with him.
The link the the angry late middle aged white guy ranting on was equally offensive and hate filled.
Nuff said.
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the book. My wife who is Muslim, learned a lot and couldn't dispute any of it. Her only comment being that many of Mohammed's teachings were not meant to be interpreted literally. It is a legitimate book that has received great reviews on Amazon. Here is the description taken directly from the Amazon website:
Product Description The Story of Mohammed Islam Unveiled (Non-fiction full length book) Mohammed’s life story is the key which unlocks the complexities and confusion of the Islamic religion itself. Understanding his story provides a clear insight into Islam and the incredible importance this subject holds for our future. This is also the most amazing story never told. It is said that truth is stranger than fiction and you just could not have made this up. There are battles, murders, intrigues, rapes, assassinations, torture, intimidation, and much much more. Along the way Mohammed invented Jihad, the most effective system of conquest ever devised. This amazing book reads like an adventure story and brings the Islamic perspective to life in a way that is both fascinating and informative. Millions of people, both Muslims and non Muslims are tragically affected by aspects of Islam. More than 95% of all wars and armed conflict today involve Muslims. Muslims also suffer some of the highest rates of poverty, disease, hunger, illiteracy, environmental degradation and many more crippling disadvantages. By tackling the subject head on, this book gives the reader the ability to consider and discuss this subject from a position of knowledge, understanding and truth.
Your wife's religion is not relevant to the contents of this "book" - What does it to to the same highly literal view that Isis take of Islam and present it as the truth - equally dangerous for different reason IMO. That aside it is designed to show the danger of Islam and to frighten people - It has a clear purpose of stirring up hatred and suspicion.
I am actually an aethiest and am very well aware of the problems and pitfalls of the abrahamic religions and I have been vocally critical of these in the past - However some of them excellent posts on the subject of belief really brought home to me just how wrong I was to tar all members of a religion with the guilt of what may have been done in that name.
My opinions are;
(1) The overwhelming majority of Muslims to do not subscribe to the beliefs and practices of Isis and are as opposed to them as we are.
(2) Extemist views, and I am sorry but anything that encourages disproportionate fear and any hatred is wrong - on either side. It is, as others have said exactly the sort of reaction Isis want.
(3) Being staunchly opposed to Isis and extremism of any sort is not incompatible with freedom, democracy, human rights and good old fashioned British decency.
(4) I have flagged posts linking to sites which intend to whip up hatred and posts which have encouraged violence and "cleansing" . This is not stifling free speech but opposing hatred and predudice - I make no apologies for that.
(5) I have used lol , as do a great deal of lifers, to express disagreement.
Is that clear enough??!!!
I've noticed you doing that. Lolling posts is basically saying 'I disagree with you but I can't be bothered to tell you what I think is wrong with what you're saying. But I'm right'. It's pretty annoying. I do it myself sometimes. Half of Colin's posts are covered in those kind of lols. I do think on an emotive and controversial subject like this though it's not very tactful to rile people up by just clicking the lol button rather than saying why you disagree. It's petty and it just adds to the bad feeling on this thread. You've also continued to fundamentally misunderstand what the abuse flags are for but never mind. You're clearly not listening and you're not going to change any time soon
I think one of the key issues we have in solving the whole ISIS problem is that western intervention is almost always counterproductive. The Muslim world does not want us constantly letting them know how things should be done, and enforcing it with bullets and bombs if necessary. Instead, what the Arab world as a whole needs is a kind of enlightenment, where they realise that they need to work together to some extent (much like our much maligned EU) the Arabs are, and have been throughout history their own worst enemy due to constant warmongering and religious divides.
Instead, and this is wishful thinking, any real solution to the ISIS problem, and the problems of fundamental Islam in general will only be won with an Islamic led reformation. The problem is I can't see them doing that, Wahabism is not a topic many know a lot about over here but the house of Saud basically brokered a deal with the Wahabists that would enable them to rule, and the religion to prosper. Sunnis, Shias, other sects too no doubt, their faith is what divides them, and at this moment in time, that will not change without a monumental shift in the religion of Islam.
The problem of ISIS is 100% an Islamic problem. Are you telling me that if a group of 5,000 people decided they were going to take over the south of France and northern Spain that they would be able to? No, the armies of the European Union would destroy then before they could get the key in their 2CV. What's more, if there was a crisis in France, we would undoubtedly welcome those refugees in, culturally, we are very similar, not the case with Syrians which makes the whole lack of Arab nations helping even more damning.
All I know for sure is that the issues going on now will only be solved for good when the Islamic faith is reformed and enlightened.
What a load of bollox, how is it 100% a muslim problem! They're slaughtering non muslims or haven't you noticed! They are a disease and need to be eradicated full stop.
What annoys me is that people are acting surprised that these shooters disguised themselves as refugees.
ISIS made it clear that they would exploit the West's generousity. Braver sections of the media have already pointed out that only 20% of those travelling from the Middle East were genuine refugees.
Instead of everyone getting their dicks out and trying to prove they're the most humane person, a rigerous system of checking people needs to be put in place.
Of course Germany has already done most of the damage already. They're stupid fucking idiots for letting in so many people. With EU passports they can travel anywhere and that includes Britain.
Cameron's initiative of selecting refugees from the camps who have been assessed for need was a very good one
What a load of bollox, how is it 100% a muslim problem! They're slaughtering non muslims or haven't you noticed! They are a disease and need to be eradicated full stop.
So they want a war and your solution is to give them everything they want? Genius.
You talk eradicating when any attempt to do that invites doom to us all.
Hey, who cares how many die, as long as you can say "I told you so" whilst we stand in the ruins of our world.
This is not a war we can win with bullets and bomb, but hearts and minds. On that battlefield we give ISIS more ammo every day.
What a load of bollox, how is it 100% a muslim problem! They're slaughtering non muslims or haven't you noticed! They are a disease and need to be eradicated full stop.
So they want a war and your solution is to give them everything they want? Genius.
You talk eradicating when any attempt to do that invites doom to us all.
Hey, who cares how many die, as long as you can say "I told you so" whilst we stand in the ruins of our world.
This is not a war we can win with bullets and bomb, but hearts and minds. On that battlefield we give ISIS more ammo every day.
I think IS must now be confronted on the battlefield. Hearts and minds will be a longer battle but I agree it must also happen.
What a load of bollox, how is it 100% a muslim problem! They're slaughtering non muslims or haven't you noticed! They are a disease and need to be eradicated full stop.
So they want a war and your solution is to give them everything they want? Genius.
You talk eradicating when any attempt to do that invites doom to us all.
Hey, who cares how many die, as long as you can say "I told you so" whilst we stand in the ruins of our world.
This is not a war we can win with bullets and bomb, but hearts and minds. On that battlefield we give ISIS more ammo every day.
I think IS must now be confronted on the battlefield. Hearts and minds will be a longer battle but I agree it must also happen.
but confronted on the battlefield by who? The countries surrounding Syria and Northern Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia have large well equipped forces. Why don't they?
What a load of bollox, how is it 100% a muslim problem! They're slaughtering non muslims or haven't you noticed! They are a disease and need to be eradicated full stop.
So they want a war and your solution is to give them everything they want? Genius.
You talk eradicating when any attempt to do that invites doom to us all.
Hey, who cares how many die, as long as you can say "I told you so" whilst we stand in the ruins of our world.
This is not a war we can win with bullets and bomb, but hearts and minds. On that battlefield we give ISIS more ammo every day.
I think IS must now be confronted on the battlefield. Hearts and minds will be a longer battle but I agree it must also happen.
but confronted on the battlefield by who? The countries surrounding Syria and Northern Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia have large well equipped forces. Why don't they?
In an ideal situation it would be a coalition of all of those countries you mention. If IS is not confronted and beaten then it is only a matter of time before Jordan will be under their influence. The head of the snake needs to be severed.
Because they fund them, we should pull out let them all fight eachother, or we should join the Russians and kickvthe living shit out of everything that moves whilst we do it. See.s to me the feeling is there will be collateral damage but we must support the poor souls who are flooding Europe, well there will be collateral damage if we wade in full guns blazing and bomb the shit out of them
The damage is happening! Every day they are murdering someone, somewhere. We need to join with the Russians and kick the shit out of them once and for all. If the surrounding countries do not help then we know where they stand and should alienate them from trade in the future. Who they gonna sell their oil too? All governments should stop giving them a name from now on and just let them be known as the disease.
What annoys me is that people are acting surprised that these shooters disguised themselves as refugees.
ISIS made it clear that they would exploit the West's generousity. Braver sections of the media have already pointed out that only 20% of those travelling from the Middle East were genuine refugees.
Instead of everyone getting their dicks out and trying to prove they're the most humane person, a rigerous system of checking people needs to be put in place.
Of course Germany has already done most of the damage already. They're stupid fucking idiots for letting in so many people. With EU passports they can travel anywhere and that includes Britain.
Cameron's initiative of selecting refugees from the camps who have been assessed for need was a very good one
I agree. Cameron's sensible approach in this instance has been totally undermined by other EU members who have let in anyone.
The apologists on this site make me sick. People who would clearly consider themselves to be liberal and progressive have a massive blind spot when it comes to conservative Islam for fear of being seen as racist. It's time the zealoted defenders of intolerance asked themselves some hard questions.
Santa this really isn't helpful.
An apologist would be someone who defends or excuses what these murderers did.
I've read through this thread and posted on it once before and I haven't read anything that in any way tried to defend or excuse these barbarous attacks. If you believe otherwise then I think you owe to the rest of us to 'out' these apologists by finding and posting what they said.
If you can't do that then - because this is a very emotive and serious subject - I suggest you think more carefully and responsibly before you post.
I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities. I will of course limit all future comments to the narrow range of views you find acceptable.
From which I take it that you're unable or unwilling to try to produce any evidence (names/quotes) for your original assertion that 'apologists' for the Paris murderers have posted on this thread (“The apologists on this site make me sick”) - so instead you resort to cheap sarcasm.
But this isn't about differing 'views' – 'narrow' or otherwise – but about specific accusations by you that other posters (who you don't identify) are “apologists” for the Paris attackers and “zealoted defenders of intolerance”, for which you haven't offered a shred of evidence.
The sad fact is there are people on this site who would rather put the Human rights of suspected terrorists above the safety of normal law abiding citizens. That fact is clearly demonstrated in this thread which now makes chilling reading:
In their perfect little world, those terrorists in France could not have been locked up merely for being "suspected", you know "innocent until proved guilty" and all that. Therefore such attacks are unpreventable, but thankfully those terrorists went to paradise with their Human Rights intact, even if their bodies were not.
That thread was about imprisonment for so long without trial. Not chilling reading, but people promoting British or western values. I really do get the notion of 'suspected' but do we now have a blanket sweep of all Muslims, and close all Mosques because we suspect stuff? It is unworkable isn't it? The IRA were very effective terrorists, and were able to continue for years because by it's nature terrorism is concealed amongst the innocent. It was however possible to negotiate a settlement with Republican forces, which does not look possible with ISIS, and essentially it was the terrorists themselves who stopped, not because they were stopped by force, or by internment without trial. Lifers who wrote on the thread you quoted, saying imprisonment without trial was wrong are not apologists or supporters of terror, but people who want to maintain the values many fight for, fight against terrorism for.
I am not at all sure how we beat terror, it may take many years to do it, but it is about the mindset of a person who will sacrifice their own lives along with their victims. We have to keep on keeping on using technology and the power of finance to tackle this terrible problem, but there will always exist such people, even like right wingers such as Brevik as much as Islamic terrorists and they must be denied the means to do what they do.
As the news continues to emerge from Paris it is difficult to keep a cool head, and maybe an impassioned response is somehow appropriate. The horror in Paris or Pakistan, or Beirut, or London is almost too much to endure, but it won't stop until the thinking processes of the terrorists is changed because they can't all be locked up.
Chilling because I said that if intelligence exists, these people cannot, and must not, be given the benefit of doubt, or innocent people will get slaughtered. That has now played out, yet again. You Seth, dismissed the intelligence against Aamer that I presented, out of hand, and you, your daughter and Chizz were more concerned about any violation of his human rights, and that he should be well compensated, than you were about any potential risk that he posed in light of that intelligence information. It is like you are all in denial. Chizz stated yesterday that we are not at war, despite the fact that world leaders including Hollande are now admitting that it is war. In war, you do not appease your enemy, you take them out of the equation by locking them up or killing them. They certainly have no qualms about killing us. Until such time that you acknowledge the fact that we are at war, our lands will continue to be occupied, our way of life diminished, our laws and values trashed. That is exactly what Mohammed advocates in the Koran, ISIS are now following his teachings to the letter. Sharia law already exists in the UK. How have we allowed our judicial system to be hijacked in such away? How can we allow Muslims to stand on our streets openly admitting that they don't recognise our laws and refuse to abide by them? People first need to educate themselves about Mohammed and the origins of Islam, and not just accept the false assertion that Islam is the religion of peace, it's not. Mohammed was a violent man and many of his teachings advocate violence, including striking off the heads of infidels, wife beating etc. If "moderate" muslims want to live peacefully amongst us, they are most welcome. But they must live according to OUR laws and close down their Sharia courts immediately. And if they are serious about their hatred of ISIS, they will come together and issue a FATWA against them, and then set about reforming their religion so that it is no longer a magnet for these extremist nutters. In the meantime I want to see anyone found to have close associations with ISIS locked up and I don't care if they throw away the key, so long as innocent people are kept safe. Don't want to be locked up? Then live a good clean life and stay well away from other terrorists, that's not difficult.
I did not dismiss what you posted out of hand. I said consistently that if he was guilty of something then put him on trial.
What's wrong with that?
You have mentioned left wingers, and I mentioned the right wing Brevik, do you want anybody found to have close associations with right wing organisations locked up, and you don't care if they throw away the key?
Isn't the point that on the extremes everywhere there are dangerous fanatics, and dangerous fanatics are not allowed licence by left wing inclined people, any more than they are allowed licence by right wing people.
You assume to know about my hierarchy of concerns...as in more concerned about human rights than your particular agenda, how do you know what concerns me most?
PS I do not have a daughter even though I would like to have one.
We went down Brive yesterday for a walk round and it seemed a lot quieter than normal, we live in that back of beyond so it is hard to gauge, but i'm sure things will get back to normal soon enough
The damage is happening! Every day they are murdering someone, somewhere. We need to join with the Russians and kick the shit out of them once and for all. If the surrounding countries do not help then we know where they stand and should alienate them from trade in the future. Who they gonna sell their oil too? All governments should stop giving them a name from now on and just let them be known as the disease.
I don't think Russia's primary strategic objective is to kick the shit out of IS and I doubt they'd take kindly to seeing additional NATO troops in their theatre. IS is just an excuse for Putin to meddle in the region and establish hegemony from Syria to Iran. It'll be interesting to see how America reacts but I doubt there's any will/ability to defend Iraq from a Russian/Shia takeover.
What a load of bollox, how is it 100% a muslim problem! They're slaughtering non muslims or haven't you noticed! They are a disease and need to be eradicated full stop.
Have I really just read this? Generally it has been pretty well discussed with different viewpoints.
That's one of the most disgraceful comments I have ever read on Charlton Life
Chilling because I said that if intelligence exists, these people cannot, and must not, be given the benefit of doubt, or innocent people will get slaughtered. That has now played out, yet again. You Seth, dismissed the intelligence against Aamer that I presented, out of hand, and you, your daughter and Chizz were more concerned about any violation of his human rights, and that he should be well compensated, than you were about any potential risk that he posed in light of that intelligence information. It is like you are all in denial. Chizz stated yesterday that we are not at war, despite the fact that world leaders including Hollande are now admitting that it is war. In war, you do not appease your enemy, you take them out of the equation by locking them up or killing them. They certainly have no qualms about killing us. Until such time that you acknowledge the fact that we are at war, our lands will continue to be occupied, our way of life diminished, our laws and values trashed. That is exactly what Mohammed advocates in the Koran, ISIS are now following his teachings to the letter. Sharia law already exists in the UK. How have we allowed our judicial system to be hijacked in such away? How can we allow Muslims to stand on our streets openly admitting that they don't recognise our laws and refuse to abide by them? People first need to educate themselves about Mohammed and the origins of Islam, and not just accept the false assertion that Islam is the religion of peace, it's not. Mohammed was a violent man and many of his teachings advocate violence, including striking off the heads of infidels, wife beating etc. If "moderate" muslims want to live peacefully amongst us, they are most welcome. But they must live according to OUR laws and close down their Sharia courts immediately. And if they are serious about their hatred of ISIS, they will come together and issue a FATWA against them, and then set about reforming their religion so that it is no longer a magnet for these extremist nutters. In the meantime I want to see anyone found to have close associations with ISIS locked up and I don't care if they throw away the key, so long as innocent people are kept safe. Don't want to be locked up? Then live a good clean life and stay well away from other terrorists, that's not difficult.
I did not dismiss what you posted out of hand. I said consistently that if he was guilty of something then put him on trial.
What's wrong with that?
You have mentioned left wingers, and I mentioned the right wing Brevik, do you want anybody found to have close associations with right wing organisations locked up, and you don't care if they throw away the key?
Isn't the point that on the extremes everywhere there are dangerous fanatics, and dangerous fanatics are not allowed licence by left wing inclined people, any more than they are allowed licence by right wing people.
You assume to know about my hierarchy of concerns...as in more concerned about human rights than your particular agenda, how do you know what concerns me most?
PS I do not have a daughter even though I would like to have one.
Well that's really odd because PaddyP17 claims that Seth (who was at the meeting and who apologised to Katrien) is her Dad. Perhaps there are two Seth's on CL
PaddyP17 Member November 11 Said I'd provide a writeup ladies and gents. Seth's not home yet, but here it is anyway, based on the fairly comprehensive tweets:
We're fucked.
and
PaddyP17 Member November 11
Hartleypete said:
1) because I can not see what they bring to the table, might be wrong but that's my opinion.
2) no why where you?
3) why make such an assumption.
1) Okay fine. Can't swing anyone on that.
2) My dad was, and will be providing an update with my assistance in I presume "a bit" when he gets back home.
3) Have been following the tweets and this page. Have also seen the questions the "consortium" (for want of a better word) had drafted. Haven't seen any questions, other than inane ones, quoted in the vast majority of the tweets.
I'm not sure describing ISIS mass murders as diseased is particularly controversial.
There was no mention of ISIS as mass murderers. It just referred to Muslims. If it had said ISIS is a disease and needs to be wiped out then frankly I would be in agreement (as any sane person should be).
I'm not sure describing ISIS mass murders as diseased is particularly controversial.
There was no mention of ISIS as mass murderers. It just referred to Muslims. If it had said ISIS is a disease and needs to be wiped out then frankly I would be in agreement (as any sane person should be).
It only mentions Muslims.
Think you need to read it again mate, I'm sure that's not what he meant
I'm not sure describing ISIS mass murders as diseased is particularly controversial.
There was no mention of ISIS as mass murderers. It just referred to Muslims. If it had said ISIS is a disease and needs to be wiped out then frankly I would be in agreement (as any sane person should be).
It only mentions Muslims.
It was obvious he was talking about Isis and not all Muslims in general. Stop trying to make an issue out of something that isn't there.
Comments
Instead, and this is wishful thinking, any real solution to the ISIS problem, and the problems of fundamental Islam in general will only be won with an Islamic led reformation. The problem is I can't see them doing that, Wahabism is not a topic many know a lot about over here but the house of Saud basically brokered a deal with the Wahabists that would enable them to rule, and the religion to prosper. Sunnis, Shias, other sects too no doubt, their faith is what divides them, and at this moment in time, that will not change without a monumental shift in the religion of Islam.
The problem of ISIS is 100% an Islamic problem. Are you telling me that if a group of 5,000 people decided they were going to take over the south of France and northern Spain that they would be able to? No, the armies of the European Union would destroy then before they could get the key in their 2CV. What's more, if there was a crisis in France, we would undoubtedly welcome those refugees in, culturally, we are very similar, not the case with Syrians which makes the whole lack of Arab nations helping even more damning.
All I know for sure is that the issues going on now will only be solved for good when the Islamic faith is reformed and enlightened.
You talk eradicating when any attempt to do that invites doom to us all.
Hey, who cares how many die, as long as you can say "I told you so" whilst we stand in the ruins of our world.
This is not a war we can win with bullets and bomb, but hearts and minds. On that battlefield we give ISIS more ammo every day.
What's wrong with that?
You have mentioned left wingers, and I mentioned the right wing Brevik, do you want anybody found to have close associations with right wing organisations locked up, and you don't care if they throw away the key?
Isn't the point that on the extremes everywhere there are dangerous fanatics, and dangerous fanatics are not allowed licence by left wing inclined people, any more than they are allowed licence by right wing people.
You assume to know about my hierarchy of concerns...as in more concerned about human rights than your particular agenda, how do you know what concerns me most?
PS I do not have a daughter even though I would like to have one.
That's one of the most disgraceful comments I have ever read on Charlton Life
Chilling because I said that if intelligence exists, these people cannot, and must not, be given the benefit of doubt, or innocent people will get slaughtered. That has now played out, yet again.
You Seth, dismissed the intelligence against Aamer that I presented, out of hand, and you, your daughter and Chizz were more concerned about any violation of his human rights, and that he should be well compensated, than you were about any potential risk that he posed in light of that intelligence information.
It is like you are all in denial. Chizz stated yesterday that we are not at war, despite the fact that world leaders including Hollande are now admitting that it is war. In war, you do not appease your enemy, you take them out of the equation by locking them up or killing them. They certainly have no qualms about killing us.
Until such time that you acknowledge the fact that we are at war, our lands will continue to be occupied, our way of life diminished, our laws and values trashed.
That is exactly what Mohammed advocates in the Koran, ISIS are now following his teachings to the letter. Sharia law already exists in the UK. How have we allowed our judicial system to be hijacked in such away? How can we allow Muslims to stand on our streets openly admitting that they don't recognise our laws and refuse to abide by them?
People first need to educate themselves about Mohammed and the origins of Islam, and not just accept the false assertion that Islam is the religion of peace, it's not. Mohammed was a violent man and many of his teachings advocate violence, including striking off the heads of infidels, wife beating etc.
If "moderate" muslims want to live peacefully amongst us, they are most welcome. But they must live according to OUR laws and close down their Sharia courts immediately. And if they are serious about their hatred of ISIS, they will come together and issue a FATWA against them, and then set about reforming their religion so that it is no longer a magnet for these extremist nutters.
In the meantime I want to see anyone found to have close associations with ISIS locked up and I don't care if they throw away the key, so long as innocent people are kept safe. Don't want to be locked up? Then live a good clean life and stay well away from other terrorists, that's not difficult.
I did not dismiss what you posted out of hand. I said consistently that if he was guilty of something then put him on trial.
What's wrong with that?
You have mentioned left wingers, and I mentioned the right wing Brevik, do you want anybody found to have close associations with right wing organisations locked up, and you don't care if they throw away the key?
Isn't the point that on the extremes everywhere there are dangerous fanatics, and dangerous fanatics are not allowed licence by left wing inclined people, any more than they are allowed licence by right wing people.
You assume to know about my hierarchy of concerns...as in more concerned about human rights than your particular agenda, how do you know what concerns me most?
PS I do not have a daughter even though I would like to have one.
Well that's really odd because PaddyP17 claims that Seth (who was at the meeting and who apologised to Katrien) is her Dad. Perhaps there are two Seth's on CL
PaddyP17 Member
November 11
Said I'd provide a writeup ladies and gents. Seth's not home yet, but here it is anyway, based on the fairly comprehensive tweets:
We're fucked.
and
PaddyP17 Member
November 11
Hartleypete said:
1) because I can not see what they bring to the table, might be wrong but that's my opinion.
2) no why where you?
3) why make such an assumption.
1) Okay fine. Can't swing anyone on that.
2) My dad was, and will be providing an update with my assistance in I presume "a bit" when he gets back home.
3) Have been following the tweets and this page. Have also seen the questions the "consortium" (for want of a better word) had drafted. Haven't seen any questions, other than inane ones, quoted in the vast majority of the tweets.
It only mentions Muslims.