Amongst all the carnage and the futility of thinking there will ever being a peaceful solution to this nightmare, the one overidding feeling as usual for me is how much I fucking hate the media and its self serving circus!
Can I also just say, having watched some of the news... And I know this is a bit of a nasty thing to say, but has anyone else felt like some of the broadcasters are almost reporting this like it is the latest, most exciting bit of celebrity gossip? I also heard a person calling in who was in the local residence and heard it all going on who called BBC News last night, a Brit who had relocated to Paris, and she genuinely was laughing about "how she felt unsafe" and seemed like a kid at Christmas over the whole situation... It was so creepy...
A pretty natural human reaction id say, it's the adrenaline I'd imagine.
Can I also just say, having watched some of the news... And I know this is a bit of a nasty thing to say, but has anyone else felt like some of the broadcasters are almost reporting this like it is the latest, most exciting bit of celebrity gossip? I also heard a person calling in who was in the local residence and heard it all going on who called BBC News last night, a Brit who had relocated to Paris, and she genuinely was laughing about "how she felt unsafe" and seemed like a kid at Christmas over the whole situation... It was so creepy...
A pretty natural human reaction id say, it's the adrenaline I'd imagine.
I agree. It sounds like a hysterical reaction to the shock of the attacks.
I would imagine, like the rest of us, she is greatly saddened about what is going on and feeling for the people killed and their friends and families.
If you are trying to link the large influx of migrants into Europe with people who are terrorists and murderers then that is plain wrong. We can discuss and argue and disagree about the rights and wrongs of migration policy. And we can argue about whether those people are being forced to move due to poverty and danger or for economic reasons. But to equate them with murderous thugs is stupid.
I wasn't wrong was I? It's already happening, more to come I'm sure
No. You are wrong. But I don't think you understand my point.
PARIS—At least one of the attackers outside France’s national soccer stadium had a ticket to the game and attempted to enter the 80,000-person venue, according to a Stade de France security guard who was on duty and French police.
The guard—who asked to be identified only by his first name, Zouheir—said the attacker was discovered wearing an explosives vest when he was frisked at the entrance to the stadium about 15 minutes into the game. France was playing an exhibition against Germany inside.
While attempting to back away from security, Zouheir said, the attacker detonated the vest. Zouheir, who was stationed by the players’ tunnel, said he was briefed on the sequence by the security frisking team at the gate.
A police officer confirmed the sequence, adding that police suspect the attacker aimed to detonate his vest inside the stadium in order to provoke a deadly stampede.
Around three minutes later, a second person also blew himself up outside the stadium. A third suicide attacker detonated explosives at a nearby McDonald’s, police said. One civilian died in the attacks, police said.
The account sheds light on why the suicide attacks on Stade de France failed to cause the carnage that occurred at the Bataclan concert hall and restaurants across Paris. More than 120 people died in the string of attacks Friday.
Don't think a stampede was their priority. More like thousands of people evacuating after the bomb went off inside only to be met by more sick bastards when they got out.
The apologists on this site make me sick. People who would clearly consider themselves to be liberal and progressive have a massive blind spot when it comes to conservative Islam for fear of being seen as racist. It's time the zealoted defenders of intolerance asked themselves some hard questions.
Santa this really isn't helpful.
An apologist would be someone who defends or excuses what these murderers did.
I've read through this thread and posted on it once before and I haven't read anything that in any way tried to defend or excuse these barbarous attacks. If you believe otherwise then I think you owe to the rest of us to 'out' these apologists by finding and posting what they said.
If you can't do that then - because this is a very emotive and serious subject - I suggest you think more carefully and responsibly before you post.
I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities. I will of course limit all future comments to the narrow range of views you find acceptable.
From which I take it that you're unable or unwilling to try to produce any evidence (names/quotes) for your original assertion that 'apologists' for the Paris murderers have posted on this thread (“The apologists on this site make me sick”) - so instead you resort to cheap sarcasm.
But this isn't about differing 'views' – 'narrow' or otherwise – but about specific accusations by you that other posters (who you don't identify) are “apologists” for the Paris attackers and “zealoted defenders of intolerance”, for which you haven't offered a shred of evidence.
I would imagine, like the rest of us, she is greatly saddened about what is going on and feeling for the people killed and their friends and families.
If you are trying to link the large influx of migrants into Europe with people who are terrorists and murderers then that is plain wrong. We can discuss and argue and disagree about the rights and wrongs of migration policy. And we can argue about whether those people are being forced to move due to poverty and danger or for economic reasons. But to equate them with murderous thugs is stupid.
I wasn't wrong was I? It's already happening, more to come I'm sure
No. You are wrong. But I don't think you understand my point.
Interesting, if I'm wrong please explain why.
Also can you explain how the the Syrian terrorist posing as a refugee, who Greek officials have confirmed passed through Greece in October has no link to the large influx of migrants into Europe?
My point is IS extremists are manipulating the migrant crisis to get into Europe and Merkel was mad to encourage them.
The apologists on this site make me sick. People who would clearly consider themselves to be liberal and progressive have a massive blind spot when it comes to conservative Islam for fear of being seen as racist. It's time the zealoted defenders of intolerance asked themselves some hard questions.
Santa this really isn't helpful.
An apologist would be someone who defends or excuses what these murderers did.
I've read through this thread and posted on it once before and I haven't read anything that in any way tried to defend or excuse these barbarous attacks. If you believe otherwise then I think you owe to the rest of us to 'out' these apologists by finding and posting what they said.
If you can't do that then - because this is a very emotive and serious subject - I suggest you think more carefully and responsibly before you post.
I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities. I will of course limit all future comments to the narrow range of views you find acceptable.
From which I take it that you're unable or unwilling to try to produce any evidence (names/quotes) for your original assertion that 'apologists' for the Paris murderers have posted on this thread (“The apologists on this site make me sick”) - so instead you resort to cheap sarcasm.
But this isn't about differing 'views' – 'narrow' or otherwise – but about specific accusations by you that other posters (who you don't identify) are “apologists” for the Paris attackers and “zealoted defenders of intolerance”, for which you haven't offered a shred of evidence.</blockquote
I mentioned people being apologists for conservative Islam, I never accused anyone of being an apologist for terrorists. Thanks for putting words in my mouth by conflating the two. If you read through this thread and older (sunken) threads you'll find find the arguments repeated again and again but for the sake of the moderators and my blood pressure I'll leave it here as this is going to become a stupid tit for tat argument.
"The main reason normal Muslims don't join these protests is because they have a lot of far right people in them that they fear will attack them for being Muslims. The reason they don't March alone is because of fear of attack same reason"
I am truely shocked by this video. My friend told me that things were bad in Luton but I never imagined they were this bad. That poor girl had so much courage to stand her ground when the big guy was rudely wagging his finger in her face. How anyone can agree with the sentiments of the Muslim leader at the end astounds me. If he doesn't want to live according to our laws, then go. How can the lefties back this stuff?
I don't tend to stick my head above the parapet on these kind of debates but..
I am a lefty, it appalls me.
Isis is a fascist, supremacist organisation and that never ends well. But as well as looking at ways to destroy their fighting capability we need to find ways to destroy the reasons why young (mostly) men are joining them and that will take understanding them and examining our own actions. That will require two separate and distinct battles and we need to fight and win them both or we will lose them both.
On a separate note, the UK never signed the Schengen Agreement in the first place because it did not want to give the ability to cross the border to IRA terrorists. It was always doomed to fail in my eyes.
The apologists on this site make me sick. People who would clearly consider themselves to be liberal and progressive have a massive blind spot when it comes to conservative Islam for fear of being seen as racist. It's time the zealoted defenders of intolerance asked themselves some hard questions.
Santa this really isn't helpful.
An apologist would be someone who defends or excuses what these murderers did.
I've read through this thread and posted on it once before and I haven't read anything that in any way tried to defend or excuse these barbarous attacks. If you believe otherwise then I think you owe to the rest of us to 'out' these apologists by finding and posting what they said.
If you can't do that then - because this is a very emotive and serious subject - I suggest you think more carefully and responsibly before you post.
I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities. I will of course limit all future comments to the narrow range of views you find acceptable.
From which I take it that you're unable or unwilling to try to produce any evidence (names/quotes) for your original assertion that 'apologists' for the Paris murderers have posted on this thread (“The apologists on this site make me sick”) - so instead you resort to cheap sarcasm.
But this isn't about differing 'views' – 'narrow' or otherwise – but about specific accusations by you that other posters (who you don't identify) are “apologists” for the Paris attackers and “zealoted defenders of intolerance”, for which you haven't offered a shred of evidence.
I mentioned people being apologists for conservative Islam, I never accused anyone of being an apologist for terrorists. Thanks for putting words in my mouth by conflating the two. If you read through this discussion and older (sunken) threads you'll find find the same arguments repeated again and again but for the sake of the moderators and my blood pressure I'll leave it here as this is going to become a stupid tit for tat bun fight.
Jason Manford posted this on Facebook and Twitter. It was taken down from FB apparently; can't understand why. Couldn't put it any better myself.
This is exactly the kind of problem that was always going to come from these tragic events. Jason Mandord touches on the obvious problem of extremism in Islam and the terrorism it leads to - but then the true inner self comes out by blindly calling all Muslims followers of a *unt God.
If you think that's a reasonable thing to say then you need to take a look at yourself. In fact, how about you look at it this way..... Football supporters in Turkey go on the rampage and kill and English fan. Are all football fans including us rotten to the core?
Or is there a problem with football hooliganism which comes to the fore in particular countries?
I am zero tolerance on the evil of extremism in Islam. But some people are using this tragic incident to show their true colours here which creates the kind of conflict that the terrorists will thrive on.
I don't care what anyone says - there are 1.6billion followers of Islam in the world. We have an evil proportion within that - but to tar that many people with one brush (even based on the attacks we have had) is ludicrous.
People like those who carried out the atrocities last night have zilch to do with 99 percent of Muslims worldwide.
If we start attacking a religion that a quarter of the world belong to then you will create even more division.
The evil bastards from last night represent Islam as much as a hooligan from abroad represents Charlton Athletic.
The harsh reality of events in Paris kicks in when you see and hear of people you know that have been affected. Regardless of everyone's political views we are all in agreement that these events were tragic and I hope that all of your friends and loved ones are accounted for including those posters on here that live in or regularly visit France.
Jason Manford posted this on Facebook and Twitter. It was taken down from FB apparently; can't understand why. Couldn't put it any better myself.
This is exactly the kind of problem that was always going to come from these tragic events. Jason Mandord touches on the obvious problem of extremism in Islam and the terrorism it leads to - but then the true inner self comes out by blindly calling all Muslims followers of a *unt God.
If you think that's a reasonable thing to say then you need to take a look at yourself. In fact, how about you look at it this way..... Football supporters in Turkey go on the rampage and kill and English fan. Are all football fans including us rotten to the core?
Or is there a problem with football hooliganism which comes to the fore in particular countries?
I am zero tolerance on the evil of extremism in Islam. But some people are using this tragic incident to show their true colours here which creates the kind of conflict that the terrorists will thrive on.
I don't care what anyone says - there are 1.6billion followers of Islam in the world. We have an evil proportion within that - but to tar that many people with one brush (even based on the attacks we have had) is ludicrous.
People like those who carried out the atrocities last night have zilch to do with 99 percent of Muslims worldwide.
If we start attacking a religion that a quarter of the world belong to then you will create even more division.
The evil bastards from last night represent Islam as much as a hooligan from abroad represents Charlton Athletic.
Jason Manford posted this on Facebook and Twitter. It was taken down from FB apparently; can't understand why. Couldn't put it any better myself.
This is exactly the kind of problem that was always going to come from these tragic events. Jason Mandord touches on the obvious problem of extremism in Islam and the terrorism it leads to - but then the true inner self comes out by blindly calling all Muslims followers of a *unt God.
If you think that's a reasonable thing to say then you need to take a look at yourself. In fact, how about you look at it this way..... Football supporters in Turkey go on the rampage and kill and English fan. Are all football fans including us rotten to the core?
Or is there a problem with football hooliganism which comes to the fore in particular countries?
I am zero tolerance on the evil of extremism in Islam. But some people are using this tragic incident to show their true colours here which creates the kind of conflict that the terrorists will thrive on.
I don't care what anyone says - there are 1.6billion followers of Islam in the world. We have an evil proportion within that - but to tar that many people with one brush (even based on the attacks we have had) is ludicrous.
People like those who carried out the atrocities last night have zilch to do with 99 percent of Muslims worldwide.
If we start attacking a religion that a quarter of the world belong to then you will create even more division.
The evil bastards from last night represent Islam as much as a hooligan from abroad represents Charlton Athletic.
Not really, he said if you think your G Yeahod will reward you then your God is a c, implying a God which would reward people like these scum is a c. I agree.
Jason Manford posted this on Facebook and Twitter. It was taken down from FB apparently; can't understand why. Couldn't put it any better myself.
This is exactly the kind of problem that was always going to come from these tragic events. Jason Mandord touches on the obvious problem of extremism in Islam and the terrorism it leads to - but then the true inner self comes out by blindly calling all Muslims followers of a *unt God.
If you think that's a reasonable thing to say then you need to take a look at yourself. In fact, how about you look at it this way..... Football supporters in Turkey go on the rampage and kill and English fan. Are all football fans including us rotten to the core?
Or is there a problem with football hooliganism which comes to the fore in particular countries?
I am zero tolerance on the evil of extremism in Islam. But some people are using this tragic incident to show their true colours here which creates the kind of conflict that the terrorists will thrive on.
I don't care what anyone says - there are 1.6billion followers of Islam in the world. We have an evil proportion within that - but to tar that many people with one brush (even based on the attacks we have had) is ludicrous.
People like those who carried out the atrocities last night have zilch to do with 99 percent of Muslims worldwide.
If we start attacking a religion that a quarter of the world belong to then you will create even more division.
The evil bastards from last night represent Islam as much as a hooligan from abroad represents Charlton Athletic.
What he actually said was, and aimed at the perpertrators only, "if you think your God will reward you for this type of atrocity, then your God is a c**t"
He did not say is that all Muslims are followers of a c**t God.
I think their is a slight, but massively important difference.
Jason Manford posted this on Facebook and Twitter. It was taken down from FB apparently; can't understand why. Couldn't put it any better myself.
This is exactly the kind of problem that was always going to come from these tragic events. Jason Mandord touches on the obvious problem of extremism in Islam and the terrorism it leads to - but then the true inner self comes out by blindly calling all Muslims followers of a *unt God.
If you think that's a reasonable thing to say then you need to take a look at yourself. In fact, how about you look at it this way..... Football supporters in Turkey go on the rampage and kill and English fan. Are all football fans including us rotten to the core?
Or is there a problem with football hooliganism which comes to the fore in particular countries?
I am zero tolerance on the evil of extremism in Islam. But some people are using this tragic incident to show their true colours here which creates the kind of conflict that the terrorists will thrive on.
I don't care what anyone says - there are 1.6billion followers of Islam in the world. We have an evil proportion within that - but to tar that many people with one brush (even based on the attacks we have had) is ludicrous.
People like those who carried out the atrocities last night have zilch to do with 99 percent of Muslims worldwide.
If we start attacking a religion that a quarter of the world belong to then you will create even more division.
The evil bastards from last night represent Islam as much as a hooligan from abroad represents Charlton Athletic.
Fantastic post. I agree with all of it - but your maths is wrong. I'd say more like 99.999%
Game against France on Tuesday being switched to Wembley. Not sure whether I'm comfortable with this or not. Agree we need to make a stand but is it all not too raw to make a friendly match the flagship event to do so? Are we comfortable that all extra security measure will be in place in time in and around the stadium?
Apologies - it always was going to be at Wembley so isn't "being switched" but there was some doubt about it going ahead. Still not sure it should.
The French are the victims in this.
If they want the game played it should be. If they don't then we respect that too.
I totally agree with the sentiment but the French aren't the only victims in this. The Whole of humanity is.
We don't know the identities of these attackers yet. What if they have connections with potential terrorists in this country? Do we know that those that helped in this attack aren't intending to travel over? The French Secret Service, as stated in the article I posted earlier, have previously been found to be seriously lacking. Can they do all their homework in the next 72 hours so our own SS can then do what is required to shut them down?
These are suicide bombers and they see themselves as martyrs and that this would be a glorious way to go. Be it inside the stadium, in a nearby restaurant or on a bus or train. And yes it can happen at any time. But how much more of an impact would it be to repeat the message so close to the previous one?
At least one of the attackers outside France’s national soccer stadium had a ticket to the game and attempted to enter the 80,000-person venue, according to a Stade de France security guard who was on duty and French police.
The guard—who asked to be identified only by his first name, Zouheir—said the attacker was discovered wearing an explosives vest when he was frisked at the entrance to the stadium about 15 minutes into the game. France was playing an exhibition against Germany inside.
While attempting to back away from security, Zouheir said, the attacker detonated the vest, which was loaded with explosives and bolts, according to Paris prosecutor François Molins. Zouheir, who was stationed by the players’ tunnel, said he was briefed on the sequence by the security frisking team at the gate.
A police officer confirmed the sequence, adding that police suspect the attacker aimed to detonate his vest inside the stadium in order to provoke a deadly stampede.
Around three minutes later, a second person also blew himself up outside the stadium. A third suicide attacker detonated explosives at a nearby McDonald’s, police said. One civilian died in the attacks, police said.
Rikofold i understand the the MCof GB has made the statement but it would have more impact and be more useful if they had said " ISIS etc do not follow Islam, they have murdered and tortured 10s of thousands of Muslims as well as Christians. This is AGAINST the teachings of Allah. We urge ALL true Muslims to assist the authorities of the UK should they be aware of ANY suspected act of support rendered to this DEATH CULT".
These scum bags cant exist without support networks be they social media, food, houses,phones etc.
They have said all this, as have other Muslim groups. They don't need to say it in every single statement.
The problem here is that people need someone to blame and rather than blame the extremists they want to blame every single Muslim. This is exactly what the terrorists want, because they want Muslims to believe they are in a war with the West.
That statement unreservedly condemned the terrorists but it's still not good enough for you. Job done.
I would imagine, like the rest of us, she is greatly saddened about what is going on and feeling for the people killed and their friends and families.
If you are trying to link the large influx of migrants into Europe with people who are terrorists and murderers then that is plain wrong. We can discuss and argue and disagree about the rights and wrongs of migration policy. And we can argue about whether those people are being forced to move due to poverty and danger or for economic reasons. But to equate them with murderous thugs is stupid.
I wasn't wrong was I? It's already happening, more to come I'm sure
No. You are wrong. But I don't think you understand my point.
Interesting, if I'm wrong please explain why.
Also can you explain how the the Syrian terrorist posing as a refugee, who Greek officials have confirmed passed through Greece in October has no link to the large influx of migrants into Europe?
My point is IS extremists are manipulating the migrant crisis to get into Europe and Merkel was mad to encourage them.
I would rather have a handful of extremists getting in among thousands and thousands of refugees who find safety, than block them and send those thousands to their inevitable deaths.
And there has been massacre after massacre on a scale we couldn't even begin to imagine in Syria.
I don't know whether people just don't get it or have been so influenced by right wing ideology that they don't care. But a Syrian life is of no less value than a Briton's.
If you're ever in doubt about that, go look up the picture of the two year old refugee washed up on a beach, it brings it closer to home than most of us would find comfortable, and then try to justify otherwise.
The apologists on this site make me sick. People who would clearly consider themselves to be liberal and progressive have a massive blind spot when it comes to conservative Islam for fear of being seen as racist. It's time the zealoted defenders of intolerance asked themselves some hard questions.
Santa this really isn't helpful.
An apologist would be someone who defends or excuses what these murderers did.
I've read through this thread and posted on it once before and I haven't read anything that in any way tried to defend or excuse these barbarous attacks. If you believe otherwise then I think you owe to the rest of us to 'out' these apologists by finding and posting what they said.
If you can't do that then - because this is a very emotive and serious subject - I suggest you think more carefully and responsibly before you post.
I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities. I will of course limit all future comments to the narrow range of views you find acceptable.
From which I take it that you're unable or unwilling to try to produce any evidence (names/quotes) for your original assertion that 'apologists' for the Paris murderers have posted on this thread (“The apologists on this site make me sick”) - so instead you resort to cheap sarcasm.
But this isn't about differing 'views' – 'narrow' or otherwise – but about specific accusations by you that other posters (who you don't identify) are “apologists” for the Paris attackers and “zealoted defenders of intolerance”, for which you haven't offered a shred of evidence.
The sad fact is there are people on this site who would rather put the Human rights of suspected terrorists above the safety of normal law abiding citizens. That fact is clearly demonstrated in this thread which now makes chilling reading:
In their perfect little world, those terrorists in France could not have been locked up merely for being "suspected", you know "innocent until proved guilty" and all that. Therefore such attacks are unpreventable, but thankfully those terrorists went to paradise with their Human Rights intact, even if their bodies were not.
I would imagine, like the rest of us, she is greatly saddened about what is going on and feeling for the people killed and their friends and families.
If you are trying to link the large influx of migrants into Europe with people who are terrorists and murderers then that is plain wrong. We can discuss and argue and disagree about the rights and wrongs of migration policy. And we can argue about whether those people are being forced to move due to poverty and danger or for economic reasons. But to equate them with murderous thugs is stupid.
I wasn't wrong was I? It's already happening, more to come I'm sure
No. You are wrong. But I don't think you understand my point.
Interesting, if I'm wrong please explain why.
Also can you explain how the the Syrian terrorist posing as a refugee, who Greek officials have confirmed passed through Greece in October has no link to the large influx of migrants into Europe?
My point is IS extremists are manipulating the migrant crisis to get into Europe and Merkel was mad to encourage them.
I would rather have a handful of extremists getting in among thousands and thousands of refugees who find safety, than block them and send those thousands to their inevitable deaths.
And there has been massacre after massacre on a scale we couldn't even begin to imagine in Syria.
I don't know whether people just don't get it or have been so influenced by right wing ideology that they don't care. But a Syrian life is of no less value than a Briton's.
If you're ever in doubt about that, go look up the picture of the two year old refugee washed up on a beach, it brings it closer to home than most of us would find comfortable, and then try to justify otherwise.
Without wanting, or intending to put words into your mouth, you are effectively saying that, so long as Syrian refugees are protected, you don't mind war spreading its ugly tentacles to every corner of the globe? As much as I feel for the people of Syria, I believe it would be far better to keep the war contained to that area and concentrate on helping the Syrians to stay in their own country. It is also worth noting that many of the refugees are not in fact from Syria or from countries currently at war, such as Pakistan. Passports are being discarded upon reaching Greece at which point the majority of people arriving by boat, claim to come from Syria in order to gain entry to Europe as refugees.
I would imagine, like the rest of us, she is greatly saddened about what is going on and feeling for the people killed and their friends and families.
If you are trying to link the large influx of migrants into Europe with people who are terrorists and murderers then that is plain wrong. We can discuss and argue and disagree about the rights and wrongs of migration policy. And we can argue about whether those people are being forced to move due to poverty and danger or for economic reasons. But to equate them with murderous thugs is stupid.
I wasn't wrong was I? It's already happening, more to come I'm sure
No. You are wrong. But I don't think you understand my point.
Interesting, if I'm wrong please explain why.
Also can you explain how the the Syrian terrorist posing as a refugee, who Greek officials have confirmed passed through Greece in October has no link to the large influx of migrants into Europe?
My point is IS extremists are manipulating the migrant crisis to get into Europe and Merkel was mad to encourage them.
I would rather have a handful of extremists getting in among thousands and thousands of refugees who find safety, than block them and send those thousands to their inevitable deaths.
And there has been massacre after massacre on a scale we couldn't even begin to imagine in Syria.
I don't know whether people just don't get it or have been so influenced by right wing ideology that they don't care. But a Syrian life is of no less value than a Briton's.
If you're ever in doubt about that, go look up the picture of the two year old refugee washed up on a beach, it brings it closer to home than most of us would find comfortable, and then try to justify otherwise.
Do you have children mate?
Only reason i ask is when you say a Syrian life is no less value to a Briton (or Parisian etc) I really find it hrd to comprehend.
I'd do anything fom my kids not to see, hear, or God forbid be affected by any of these loons slipping the net and if that meant isolating it to their own countries and closing our borders then so be it.
Selfish, yes possibly, but give me my children's safety over thousands of refugees who may have the odd terrorist extemist included any day of the week.
Too right pal, I would rather the exact opposite if none of these scum terrorists get in, and other genuine refugees can't because of it, tough shit I say,
Then the security services can deal with those here already and cleanse them from the houses, flats estates and roads we all live on and once we are back in control of who is here deal with the fallout of closing the doors
Too right pal, I would rather the exact opposite if none of these scum terrorists get in, and other genuine refugees can't because of it, tough shit I say,
Then the security services can deal with those here already and cleanse them from the houses, flats estates and roads we all live on and once we are back in control of who is here deal with the fallout of closing the doors
This was precisely my point yesterday. We need to give our security services a chance.
Comments
Horrific.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34821001
RIP
But this isn't about differing 'views' – 'narrow' or otherwise – but about specific accusations by you that other posters (who you don't identify) are “apologists” for the Paris attackers and “zealoted defenders of intolerance”, for which you haven't offered a shred of evidence.
Also can you explain how the the Syrian terrorist posing as a refugee, who Greek officials have confirmed passed through Greece in October has no link to the large influx of migrants into Europe?
My point is IS extremists are manipulating the migrant crisis to get into Europe and Merkel was mad to encourage them.
I am a lefty, it appalls me.
Isis is a fascist, supremacist organisation and that never ends well. But as well as looking at ways to destroy their fighting capability we need to find ways to destroy the reasons why young (mostly) men are joining them and that will take understanding them and examining our own actions. That will require two separate and distinct battles and we need to fight and win them both or we will lose them both.
On a separate note, the UK never signed the Schengen Agreement in the first place because it did not want to give the ability to cross the border to IRA terrorists. It was always doomed to fail in my eyes.
If you think that's a reasonable thing to say then you need to take a look at yourself. In fact, how about you look at it this way..... Football supporters in Turkey go on the rampage and kill and English fan. Are all football fans including us rotten to the core?
Or is there a problem with football hooliganism which comes to the fore in particular countries?
I am zero tolerance on the evil of extremism in Islam. But some people are using this tragic incident to show their true colours here which creates the kind of conflict that the terrorists will thrive on.
I don't care what anyone says - there are 1.6billion followers of Islam in the world. We have an evil proportion within that - but to tar that many people with one brush (even based on the attacks we have had) is ludicrous.
People like those who carried out the atrocities last night have zilch to do with 99 percent of Muslims worldwide.
If we start attacking a religion that a quarter of the world belong to then you will create even more division.
The evil bastards from last night represent Islam as much as a hooligan from abroad represents Charlton Athletic.
Rip to all killed by these coward scumbags.
He did not say is that all Muslims are followers of a c**t God.
I think their is a slight, but massively important difference.
The guard—who asked to be identified only by his first name, Zouheir—said the attacker was discovered wearing an explosives vest when he was frisked at the entrance to the stadium about 15 minutes into the game. France was playing an exhibition against Germany inside.
While attempting to back away from security, Zouheir said, the attacker detonated the vest, which was loaded with explosives and bolts, according to Paris prosecutor François Molins. Zouheir, who was stationed by the players’ tunnel, said he was briefed on the sequence by the security frisking team at the gate.
A police officer confirmed the sequence, adding that police suspect the attacker aimed to detonate his vest inside the stadium in order to provoke a deadly stampede.
Around three minutes later, a second person also blew himself up outside the stadium. A third suicide attacker detonated explosives at a nearby McDonald’s, police said. One civilian died in the attacks, police said.
The problem here is that people need someone to blame and rather than blame the extremists they want to blame every single Muslim. This is exactly what the terrorists want, because they want Muslims to believe they are in a war with the West.
That statement unreservedly condemned the terrorists but it's still not good enough for you. Job done.
And there has been massacre after massacre on a scale we couldn't even begin to imagine in Syria.
I don't know whether people just don't get it or have been so influenced by right wing ideology that they don't care. But a Syrian life is of no less value than a Briton's.
If you're ever in doubt about that, go look up the picture of the two year old refugee washed up on a beach, it brings it closer to home than most of us would find comfortable, and then try to justify otherwise.
http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/69688/shaker-aamer-released/p5
In their perfect little world, those terrorists in France could not have been locked up merely for being "suspected", you know "innocent until proved guilty" and all that. Therefore such attacks are unpreventable, but thankfully those terrorists went to paradise with their Human Rights intact, even if their bodies were not.
As much as I feel for the people of Syria, I believe it would be far better to keep the war contained to that area and concentrate on helping the Syrians to stay in their own country. It is also worth noting that many of the refugees are not in fact from Syria or from countries currently at war, such as Pakistan. Passports are being discarded upon reaching Greece at which point the majority of people arriving by boat, claim to come from Syria in order to gain entry to Europe as refugees.
Only reason i ask is when you say a Syrian life is no less value to a Briton (or Parisian etc) I really find it hrd to comprehend.
I'd do anything fom my kids not to see, hear, or God forbid be affected by any of these loons slipping the net and if that meant isolating it to their own countries and closing our borders then so be it.
Selfish, yes possibly, but give me my children's safety over thousands of refugees who may have the odd terrorist extemist included any day of the week.
Then the security services can deal with those here already and cleanse them from the houses, flats estates and roads we all live on and once we are back in control of who is here deal with the fallout of closing the doors