In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
So all those British citizens who holiday in Sharm El Sheik or Eilat, work in Dubai etc shouldn't be allowed back? Don't be a numpty.
The main issue is how easy it is to get from those countries associated with these scum and their ideals, and get the weapons required into central Europe
In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
So British holiday makers in Turkey should be prevented from coming home? Where should they go instead?
Diplomats in Syria should be turned away if they try to return to Heathrow?
Any business, holiday, sports or religious travellers in Dubai, Abu Dhabi or Bahrain are excluded?
The whole England cricket squad and support staff can't come home from the current tour?
Have you thought this through?
Yes. Obviously it wouldnt be able to affect people already out on holidays/cricket tours.
However there should be a cut off date from where there is a rulw that if you travel to these countries, or if there is evidene you have visited these countries, you should not be able to return. The fact is, the majority of ISIS training occurs there, there is lots of evidence that people are returning to the uk from being in syria (via turkey)...but we do not stop these indviduals from returning (against their human rights no doubt). If we stopped them from returning, it would reduce the burden on our security services.
The main issue is how easy it is to get from those countries associated with these scum and their ideals, and get the weapons required into central Europe
Exactly. We are lucky there is some water between us and mainland europe. But our luck wont hold out forever.
I can't express my sorrow and anger at the killings and injuries committed last night better than many of those people who have posted already.
These disgusting criminals are trying to divide us. The reaction they want is an outpouring of hatred and fear. It's very sad to see, therefore, so many people, in various social media sites, falling into this trap. Blaming "Muslims" for this is like blaming the Pope for IRA bombings. Pointless and wrong. Anti-Islamic rhetoric is as stupid as it is unhelpful.
Europe isn't "at war" - comments like that are unhelpful. Many people alive today can confirm the fear, isolation and personal restrictions imposed when we *were* at war. It's nothing like that now. If you think we *are* at war, then stay home tonight after dark, continue being fearful and spread your contempt for fellow humans (as unsuccessfully as possible).
However, I'm going to do exactly what these evil terrorists don't want me to do. I'm going to carry on. I'm going to keep going to restaurants, concerts and football matches. I'm going to look for the best in people, find people to get on with and search for the things that being us together, not hunt for the things that divide us.
Football supporters died last night. Restaurant-goers died last night. Music fans died last night. The temporary hatred that's been flamed isn't going to stop me enjoying football, food and music. And enjoying the company of everyone - whatever their background - who shares that enjoyment.
Firstly they are not criminals, they are ISLAMIC TERRORISTS. Secondly we ARE at war, that is why we currently have war planes bombing ISIS, and the terrorists yesterday stated that it was France's involvement in this war, that provoked this latest attack. But rather than the war being fought in Syria, they have now brought it to our shores. The aim of the Caliphate is to take over Europe, starting with Rome, that has been one of the stated aims of this ISIS enemy. You may feel safe carrying on with your life as normal. I'm flying back with my young kids in a few weeks. I have deliberately avoided using any airlines that fly anywhere near Syria, Iraq, Ukrane etc, in preference for China Southern which takes a route over Nothern Europe. My kids, who were so looking forward to going to London, dance classes, Theatre etc, have now told me that they don't want to go to London at all. Try telling kids they have nothing to worry about when they see this stuff on the news. How dare you say I have contempt for fellow humans when I spent my working life caring for fellow humans for crappy wages, all the hours that god sent, and have left myself disabled with two compressed vertebrae and constant back pain as a direct result of caring and being compassionate towards fellow humans.
In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
So British holiday makers in Turkey should be prevented from coming home? Where should they go instead?
Diplomats in Syria should be turned away if they try to return to Heathrow?
Any business, holiday, sports or religious travellers in Dubai, Abu Dhabi or Bahrain are excluded?
The whole England cricket squad and support staff can't come home from the current tour?
In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
So British holiday makers in Turkey should be prevented from coming home? Where should they go instead?
Diplomats in Syria should be turned away if they try to return to Heathrow?
Any business, holiday, sports or religious travellers in Dubai, Abu Dhabi or Bahrain are excluded?
The whole England cricket squad and support staff can't come home from the current tour?
Have you thought this through?
Yes. Obviously it wouldnt be able to affect people already out on holidays/cricket tours.
However there should be a cut off date from where there is a rulw that if you travel to these countries, or if there is evidene you have visited these countries, you should not be able to return. The fact is, the majority of ISIS training occurs there, there is lots of evidence that people are returning to the uk from being in syria (via turkey)...but we do not stop these indviduals from returning (against their human rights no doubt). If we stopped them from returning, it would reduce the burden on our security services.
Stop who returning though? My job depends on business in the Middle East. My passport is full of stamps from turkey and the Middle East. Where should I go after your cut off point? Shall I resign?
Again, unless you don't mean a young(ish), white, agnostic male?
until there are young British Muslim men on their way to Syria to fight ISIS. until thousands march in Paris and London chanting `not in our name'. I won't believe all this `it's only a few extremists' bull. Unfortunately for us and the French the silent majority of Muslims in our countries would quite happily live under Sharia.
Eight attackers in total. We regularly hear of people arrested here under the prevention of terrorism act and it is comforting that this is the case. Whilst it is, of course, impossible to stop all such attacks, there was some criticism of the French security services following Charlie Hebdo as highlighted in this article by Dr Frank Foley in an article back in January:
On three occasions since 2012, jihadists known to the French authorities have slipped through the net to commit terrorist attacks. Two of perpetrators of last week’s attacks were not only on France’s intelligence radar, but they had also been convicted of terrorism-related offences and had served prison sentences.
n May of last year, French citizen Mehdi Nemmouche killed four people at a Jewish museum in Brussels. French intelligence knew that he had gone to fight in Syria and had returned to Europe – but they were unable to help their Belgian counterparts stop this attack.
France’s domestic intelligence agency also knew of and interviewed French citizen Mohamed Merah, suspicious about his extremist tendencies and travels in Afghanistan and Pakistan. However, in a series of attacks in March 2012, Merah evaded detection as he killed three off-duty French soldiers at various locations, as well as a rabbi and three children at a Jewish school.
All intelligence agencies have to make difficult choices about which individuals to prioritise for intrusive surveillance from the potentially thousands of people that could be suspected of involvement in terrorist networks. All have made mistakes, including the British in the case of London bomber Mohammed Siddique Khan.
But in the case of France, there is a strong rivalry between its main counterterrorist police and intelligence units, which does not help matters. Indeed, the French agencies’ failure to share promptly their information on Merah was likely an important factor in their failure to prevent his final and most deadly attack. It remains to be seen whether such breakdowns in communication were present in the case of last week’s attacks.
My book, which compares French and British counterterrorism, shows that France’s security agency rivalries are deeply entrenched, in contrast to the British case, where police and intelligence agencies have a much better functioning relationship on terrorism investigations.
I would hate to think that any of these eight terrorists were known to the French authorities. And that they did little to monitor them. Because there is a likelihood that monitoring one of the terrorists will lead you to the rest of them.
It has been suggested on the BBC that, in addition to the eight suicide bombers, there would have been 15-20 "back up" terrorists. That's up to 25 plus in total. And nothing known about any of them?
We need to remember It's not all Muslims it's purely the extremist community and isis. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful so don't go tarring the community with the same brush.
Christians and Catholics can hardly say a thing, their history shows they both once had equally bloodthirsty extremists themselves.
It's likely that the Muslim communities in the Western world will be as horrified, angry and sad as we are.
The native Muslim and non-Muslim peoples of many middle eastern countries sadly have to deal with these horrors and slaughter on an almost daily basis.
Normal human beings, no matter what their religion, will never accept the wanton attack and slaughter of innocent people and, as a father of two relative youngsters both living and working in London, it doesn't pay to let the mind wander too far.
History always shows, without exception, that there is a reason for sudden uprises in extremism - in any religion. The current middle east crisis and the recent history behind it must be playing a huge part in feeding this extremism - even Tony Blair half-admitted it on TV recently (this semi-admission sparked riots in Pakistan, allegedly).
I have a Muslim customer and friend in west London and he points out that invading Muslim countries and trying to force the will of the Western culture on the native people will fail. The Taleban will never change their beliefs or their culture and Muslims, in general, will not change either - nor should they, if we accept their right to exist and their right to thousands of years of evolved culture - even if we disagree with key parts of it.
I accept the mix of our society, the mix of colour and creed. We could certainly do more to integrate the people, though.
I had a lunch with my Muslim friend last year and a 3 hour dialogue afterwards about religion, the middle east crisis and putting the world to right, in general. He called me the following morning to say how he had enjoyed our lunch and discussion and had learned from my views and, this is the scary bit, that for he and his brother who are both British citizens of Pakistani parents, both boys educated here at school and University, this was the first time they had ever shared food with a white person and the first time they had ever shared dialogue with a white person. I learned so much from these guys and they are no different to any of us, except in their culture and religion which play a much larger role in their lives than religion does in most of ours.
I hope that there will now be a much greater effort from all sides to improve cultural and religious understanding and mutual education with 'tolerance and understanding' being the key words.
I still have a tear in my eye after the atrocities in Paris yesterday - it won't go away.
My wife and I are enjoying a spa break. At 230 am my eldest aged 14 rang me and said I just wanted to tell you what has happened in France and just wanted to hear your voice, he knew we were only at Orsett Hall in Essex yet after he had been watching things unfold on the TV at his nans he couldn't quantify in his head why this had happened and just how big it was,
Moderate and peaceful acts won't solve this, they need to be wiped out starting with those who support them
In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
So British holiday makers in Turkey should be prevented from coming home? Where should they go instead?
Diplomats in Syria should be turned away if they try to return to Heathrow?
Any business, holiday, sports or religious travellers in Dubai, Abu Dhabi or Bahrain are excluded?
The whole England cricket squad and support staff can't come home from the current tour?
Have you thought this through?
Yes. Obviously it wouldnt be able to affect people already out on holidays/cricket tours.
However there should be a cut off date from where there is a rulw that if you travel to these countries, or if there is evidene you have visited these countries, you should not be able to return. The fact is, the majority of ISIS training occurs there, there is lots of evidence that people are returning to the uk from being in syria (via turkey)...but we do not stop these indviduals from returning (against their human rights no doubt). If we stopped them from returning, it would reduce the burden on our security services.
No offence mate but you're talking rubbish. The majority of terrorists are national to that country, stopping innocent tourists or holiday makers from coming in or coming home will not solve the terrorism problem. No one has the right to tell people where they can or can't go on holiday just like there is no quick fix for anything. My mum is back and forth from Tunisia throughout the year, she annoys me sometimes but I wouldn't want her exhilled because she is married to a Muslim. Or him either.
The bottom line is 120 people from all different religions and walks of life have been murdered in Paris and many more injured or traumatised its left a whole nation numb and the world grieving. There is no time or room for hate vitriol against any race or religion, we are at war but we are at war against terrorism not against Muslims. The terrorists need to be found at the nucleus and targeted, the schools need to educate from a young age the right ways to behave, parents need to watch their children and make sure they're not falling in with any extreme cults, anyone spouting extremism from any religion needs to be arrested and locked up The Internet needs to be monitored more strictly epescially social media, any extreme groups Facebook or websites telling people how to become a "soldier" need to be shut down. It will take years but it's the only way.
No doubt there will be some idiots here and in France that will go and vandalise a mosque or beat up a Muslim or terrorise a Muslim family, that sort of behaviour achieves nothing and helps no one.
As Islam grows in Europe so do the Islamists, dissect that, flag it, bring up times Christians have killed, whatever I don't really care, this is sickening something drastic needs to be done.
I can't express my sorrow and anger at the killings and injuries committed last night better than many of those people who have posted already.
These disgusting criminals are trying to divide us. The reaction they want is an outpouring of hatred and fear. It's very sad to see, therefore, so many people, in various social media sites, falling into this trap. Blaming "Muslims" for this is like blaming the Pope for IRA bombings. Pointless and wrong. Anti-Islamic rhetoric is as stupid as it is unhelpful.
Europe isn't "at war" - comments like that are unhelpful. Many people alive today can confirm the fear, isolation and personal restrictions imposed when we *were* at war. It's nothing like that now. If you think we *are* at war, then stay home tonight after dark, continue being fearful and spread your contempt for fellow humans (as unsuccessfully as possible).
However, I'm going to do exactly what these evil terrorists don't want me to do. I'm going to carry on. I'm going to keep going to restaurants, concerts and football matches. I'm going to look for the best in people, find people to get on with and search for the things that being us together, not hunt for the things that divide us.
Football supporters died last night. Restaurant-goers died last night. Music fans died last night. The temporary hatred that's been flamed isn't going to stop me enjoying football, food and music. And enjoying the company of everyone - whatever their background - who shares that enjoyment.
You speak for me Chizz.
I just don't know what to do with how I feel about all this - helpless, sorrowful, angry, frustrated, and perhaps a touch of fear? But the latter I will in no way allow to cultivate. London is inevitably a target, the innocents going about their daily business a target for these twisted people, but the desire of terrorists is terror. I feel horror, not terror, and I too will go about my life as if these Paris events hadn't happened.
Except, that is, for the mark such events leave on you and the desperate sorrow I feel this morning for the citizens of Paris and the rest of the country. For once I want to stand side by side with the French.
DISGUSTING................I wish these cowards, scumbags, filth, would now finally put a fucking uniform on and fight like men! So pissed off..................
Lets keep the religious shit out of this, happens every time there is a terrorist attack, keep it to news and reports in my opinion.
Here is a bit of news. It is a confirmed Muslim terrorist attack.
No. Confirmed as a Muslim extremist attack. They're not real Muslims.
What a load of rubbish.
They are Muslims.
Where those involved in terrorist attacks in N.Ireland not real Catholics or real Prtotestants? Are they not real Jews or Palestinians killing each other in the Middle East ?
Perhaps we can say the crusades were not real Christians.
They are Islamists - a warped, highly politicised version.
I know this will happen in London, again. I am afraid for the people in our community, but I will fight my fear and I will continue to go about my business. We are probably more at risk in London than many other places, but I will be sensibly cautious, vigilant, but also not cower away in fear. All the Muslims I know personally are good folk, but there is some kind of ideology, some kind of impetus that links all these atrocities and the common factor is some kind of adherence to some kind of warped interpretation of Islam, which is then linked to the behaviour of the world community in Islamic countries. It isn't stopping, it looks like perpetrators feel like they are on a fundamental battle worth the sacrifice, and all the time they feel that, rightly or wrongly, this will continue. The hard part is to get into the mindset of the people who do this stuff and to change the thinking that leads to these horrors. We can physically stop a lot of people, but how do we mentally change them?
I know this will happen in London, again. I am afraid for the people in our community, but I will fight my fear and I will continue to go about my business. We are probably more at risk in London than many other places, but I will be sensibly cautious, vigilant, but also not cower away in fear. All the Muslims I know personally are good folk, but there is some kind of ideology, some kind of impetus that links all these atrocities and the common factor is some kind of adherence to some kind of warped interpretation of Islam, which is then linked to the behaviour of the world community in Islamic countries. It isn't stopping, it looks like perpetrators feel like they are on a fundamental battle worth the sacrifice, and all the time they feel that, rightly or wrongly, this will continue. The hard part is to get into the mindset of the people who do this stuff and to change the thinking that leads to these horrors. We can physically stop a lot of people, but how do we mentally change them?
until there are young British Muslim men on their way to Syria to fight ISIS. until thousands march in Paris and London chanting `not in our name'. I won't believe all this `it's only a few extremists' bull. Unfortunately for us and the French the silent majority of Muslims in our countries would quite happily live under Sharia.
Not sure how you are able to make such definitive and sweeping generalisations about what most Muslims want and I don't agree that the majority are silent.
until there are young British Muslim men on their way to Syria to fight ISIS. until thousands march in Paris and London chanting `not in our name'. I won't believe all this `it's only a few extremists' bull. Unfortunately for us and the French the silent majority of Muslims in our countries would quite happily live under Sharia.
Not sure how you are able to make such definitive and sweeping generalisations about what most Muslims want and I don't agree that the majority are silent.
until there are young British Muslim men on their way to Syria to fight ISIS. until thousands march in Paris and London chanting `not in our name'. I won't believe all this `it's only a few extremists' bull. Unfortunately for us and the French the silent majority of Muslims in our countries would quite happily live under Sharia.
until there are young British Muslim men on their way to Syria to fight ISIS. until thousands march in Paris and London chanting `not in our name'. I won't believe all this `it's only a few extremists' bull. Unfortunately for us and the French the silent majority of Muslims in our countries would quite happily live under Sharia.
Not sure how you are able to make such definitive and sweeping generalisations about what most Muslims want and I don't agree that the majority are silent.
Suggest you read the Twitter feed above.
I did. It's one mans view, the same as mine.
Except his view is considered, thoughtful and balanced.
I know this will happen in London, again. I am afraid for the people in our community, but I will fight my fear and I will continue to go about my business. We are probably more at risk in London than many other places, but I will be sensibly cautious, vigilant, but also not cower away in fear. All the Muslims I know personally are good folk, but there is some kind of ideology, some kind of impetus that links all these atrocities and the common factor is some kind of adherence to some kind of warped interpretation of Islam, which is then linked to the behaviour of the world community in Islamic countries. It isn't stopping, it looks like perpetrators feel like they are on a fundamental battle worth the sacrifice, and all the time they feel that, rightly or wrongly, this will continue. The hard part is to get into the mindset of the people who do this stuff and to change the thinking that leads to these horrors. We can physically stop a lot of people, but how do we mentally change them?
But what the author of these tweets fails to comprehend is that when our extremist scumbags start attacking innocent people just because of their ethnicity or religion it provokes massive protests from the moderate majority of our citizens. When are we going to see the so called moderate majority of Muslims protest against their extremists? And I don't mean pointless platitudes issued by Muslim leaders whenever anything like this happens.
I think it could have been a lot worse. The explosions at SdF, police are saying that 4 were killed, 3 bombers and 1 other. Judging by the other events, I would say they were trying to get into the ground.
Comments
However there should be a cut off date from where there is a rulw that if you travel to these countries, or if there is evidene you have visited these countries, you should not be able to return. The fact is, the majority of ISIS training occurs there, there is lots of evidence that people are returning to the uk from being in syria (via turkey)...but we do not stop these indviduals from returning (against their human rights no doubt). If we stopped them from returning, it would reduce the burden on our security services.
You may feel safe carrying on with your life as normal. I'm flying back with my young kids in a few weeks. I have deliberately avoided using any airlines that fly anywhere near Syria, Iraq, Ukrane etc, in preference for China Southern which takes a route over Nothern Europe. My kids, who were so looking forward to going to London, dance classes, Theatre etc, have now told me that they don't want to go to London at all. Try telling kids they have nothing to worry about when they see this stuff on the news.
How dare you say I have contempt for fellow humans when I spent my working life caring for fellow humans for crappy wages, all the hours that god sent, and have left myself disabled with two compressed vertebrae and constant back pain as a direct result of caring and being compassionate towards fellow humans.
You know very well what he mean't Chizz.
Again, unless you don't mean a young(ish), white, agnostic male?
until thousands march in Paris and London chanting `not in our name'.
I won't believe all this `it's only a few extremists' bull.
Unfortunately for us and the French the silent majority of Muslims in our countries would quite happily live under Sharia.
The native Muslim and non-Muslim peoples of many middle eastern countries sadly have to deal with these horrors and slaughter on an almost daily basis.
Normal human beings, no matter what their religion, will never accept the wanton attack and slaughter of innocent people and, as a father of two relative youngsters both living and working in London, it doesn't pay to let the mind wander too far.
History always shows, without exception, that there is a reason for sudden uprises in extremism - in any religion. The current middle east crisis and the recent history behind it must be playing a huge part in feeding this extremism - even Tony Blair half-admitted it on TV recently (this semi-admission sparked riots in Pakistan, allegedly).
I have a Muslim customer and friend in west London and he points out that invading Muslim countries and trying to force the will of the Western culture on the native people will fail. The Taleban will never change their beliefs or their culture and Muslims, in general, will not change either - nor should they, if we accept their right to exist and their right to thousands of years of evolved culture - even if we disagree with key parts of it.
I accept the mix of our society, the mix of colour and creed.
We could certainly do more to integrate the people, though.
I had a lunch with my Muslim friend last year and a 3 hour dialogue afterwards about religion, the middle east crisis and putting the world to right, in general.
He called me the following morning to say how he had enjoyed our lunch and discussion and had learned from my views and, this is the scary bit, that for he and his brother who are both British citizens of Pakistani parents, both boys educated here at school and University, this was the first time they had ever shared food with a white person and the first time they had ever shared dialogue with a white person.
I learned so much from these guys and they are no different to any of us, except in their culture and religion which play a much larger role in their lives than religion does in most of ours.
I hope that there will now be a much greater effort from all sides to improve cultural and religious understanding and mutual education with 'tolerance and understanding' being the key words.
I still have a tear in my eye after the atrocities in Paris yesterday - it won't go away.
Moderate and peaceful acts won't solve this, they need to be wiped out starting with those who support them
The bottom line is 120 people from all different religions and walks of life have been murdered in Paris and many more injured or traumatised its left a whole nation numb and the world grieving. There is no time or room for hate vitriol against any race or religion, we are at war but we are at war against terrorism not against Muslims. The terrorists need to be found at the nucleus and targeted, the schools need to educate from a young age the right ways to behave, parents need to watch their children and make sure they're not falling in with any extreme cults, anyone spouting extremism from any religion needs to be arrested and locked up The Internet needs to be monitored more strictly epescially social media, any extreme groups Facebook or websites telling people how to become a "soldier" need to be shut down. It will take years but it's the only way.
No doubt there will be some idiots here and in France that will go and vandalise a mosque or beat up a Muslim or terrorise a Muslim family, that sort of behaviour achieves nothing and helps no one.
Sickening news.
RIP
I just don't know what to do with how I feel about all this - helpless, sorrowful, angry, frustrated, and perhaps a touch of fear? But the latter I will in no way allow to cultivate. London is inevitably a target, the innocents going about their daily business a target for these twisted people, but the desire of terrorists is terror. I feel horror, not terror, and I too will go about my life as if these Paris events hadn't happened.
Except, that is, for the mark such events leave on you and the desperate sorrow I feel this morning for the citizens of Paris and the rest of the country. For once I want to stand side by side with the French.
So pissed off..................
Religion is always used as a fig leaf.
Israel / Palestine is a racial war.
Northern Ireland is basically gang warfare
We are probably more at risk in London than many other places, but I will be sensibly cautious, vigilant, but also not cower away in fear.
All the Muslims I know personally are good folk, but there is some kind of ideology, some kind of impetus that links all these atrocities and the common factor is some kind of adherence to some kind of warped interpretation of Islam, which is then linked to the behaviour of the world community in Islamic countries.
It isn't stopping, it looks like perpetrators feel like they are on a fundamental battle worth the sacrifice, and all the time they feel that, rightly or wrongly, this will continue.
The hard part is to get into the mindset of the people who do this stuff and to change the thinking that leads to these horrors. We can physically stop a lot of people, but how do we mentally change them?
Suggest you read the Twitter feed above.
I think it could have been a lot worse. The explosions at SdF, police are saying that 4 were killed, 3 bombers and 1 other. Judging by the other events, I would say they were trying to get into the ground.