Murray changed the structure when Curbs left. Not sure why he didn't go for continuity. Dowie was a traditional manager that couldn't sign up to the new way. Maybe there is a touch of the RDs about Murray if you study the history.
The new (post-Curbs) coaching structure of Dowie, Reed and Robson, indeed supported by the entire Board, was in fact designed and championed by Peter Varney.
Fair comment.
Another reason in an ideal world we need a clean sweep in terms of ownership imo.
Murray has lost the plot. How can he openly back the appointment of carol and continue to up to this point? Better off just dodging a question like that or putting a spin on it so he doesn't actually say he agrees with it.
What is his job exactly what is a typical day for him? He can't necessarily be needed as KM thinks she would have all the answers by now anyway.
Looks like he is just getting paid to sit there shut the F*ck up and take it up the arse.
He could speak out to the fans if he wanted on an independent basis and try to show understanding...and then could may say but "This is how it is"..
That would at least be something.
Lost a shocking amount of credibility .... Post Curbs.
Anyone arrogant enough to turn down Curbs offer of help to find his successor is clearly too arrogant and stuck up their own arse to be able to see the wood for the trees
The emails show what we are dealing with. A control freak who (1) has a CEO who is young, immature and easily controlled and (2) both an owner and a CEO who are pig ignorant and lack class.
I sincerely hate them both. And, I think 'hate' is such a strong word but I really feel it with them. Karma has a funny way of turning things around. And, whatever it is, they will deserve it.
Varney's part in the change of structure is irrelevant (whatever it was). Murray made the decisions and Varney is currently acting as a go between for his clients, not seeking to own the club himself. This shouldn't have anything to do with individual personalities, but what is best for the club. You just have to lay the current owners actions down in bullet points to see it is not a way to run a football club. Bringing in KF is probably one of the wierdest appointments made since Ron Noades decided he would be Crystal Palace manager! If Murray can't see that, and doesn't understand the number of managers we have had is damaging, not an example of excellent decisions, as Katrien would like to spin it, he must indeed be a basket case.
Murray changed the structure when Curbs left. Not sure why he didn't go for continuity. Dowie was a traditional manager that couldn't sign up to the new way. Maybe there is a touch of the RDs about Murray if you study the history.
The new (post-Curbs) coaching structure of Dowie, Reed and Robson, indeed supported by the entire Board, was in fact designed and championed by Peter Varney.
"Designed and championed" is a bit strong about the personnel, given that the recruitment process for Dowie was laid bare in the court case and it is clear Murray went against advice to contact Dowie. The appointment may have been ratified by the whole board - and I accept a smaller group interviewed including Varney - but any idea that Murray was not the man pushing Dowie the most is a very convenient rewriting of history. See the court transcript if you doubt it.
Murray changed the structure when Curbs left. Not sure why he didn't go for continuity. Dowie was a traditional manager that couldn't sign up to the new way. Maybe there is a touch of the RDs about Murray if you study the history.
The new (post-Curbs) coaching structure of Dowie, Reed and Robson, indeed supported by the entire Board, was in fact designed and championed by Peter Varney.
"Designed and championed" is a bit strong about the personnel, given that the recruitment process for Dowie was laid bare in the court case and it is clear Murray went against advice to contact Dowie. The appointment may have been ratified by the whole board - and I accept a smaller group interviewed including Varney - but any idea that Murray was not the man pushing Dowie the most is a very convenient rewriting of history. See the court transcript if you doubt it.
I wasn't talking about the recruitment of Dowie, who was, as you say, RM's appointment. The issue raised by Muttley was "the structure", which was designed and championed by Peter, though the Board did indeed buy into it fully.................as did (so he purported) Dowie.
Murray changed the structure when Curbs left. Not sure why he didn't go for continuity. Dowie was a traditional manager that couldn't sign up to the new way. Maybe there is a touch of the RDs about Murray if you study the history.
The new (post-Curbs) coaching structure of Dowie, Reed and Robson, indeed supported by the entire Board, was in fact designed and championed by Peter Varney.
"Designed and championed" is a bit strong about the personnel, given that the recruitment process for Dowie was laid bare in the court case and it is clear Murray went against advice to contact Dowie. The appointment may have been ratified by the whole board - and I accept a smaller group interviewed including Varney - but any idea that Murray was not the man pushing Dowie the most is a very convenient rewriting of history. See the court transcript if you doubt it.
I wasn't talking about the recruitment of Dowie, who was, as you say, RM's appointment. The issue raised by Muttley was "the structure", which was designed and championed by Peter, though the Board did indeed buy into it fully.
Fair enough, I got the distinction but I think people may have misunderstood that if not clarified. Dowie apart, the main contention for many supporters was Andrew Mills as "general manager", who to be fair you don't mention, presumably because you recall that he was in place under Curbs. I discussed Mills with Curbs in July, when he made clear he didn't see that as a problem at all. But wasn't the Dowie structure there, in part, to prevent Dowie appointing his brother?
My recollection is that Peter was working on the new coaching structure the moment Curbs' departure was decided. It had certainly had been agreed by the Board by the time that Billy Davies was the preferred candidate, before Dowie.
My recollection is that Peter was working on the new coaching structure the moment Curbs' departure was decided. It had certainly had been agreed by the Board by the time that Billy Davies was the preferred candidate, before Dowie.
You would know better than me, but it seems surprising that any board would run a recruitment process in which the coaching staff are imposed on the manager regardless of who that person is. It would presumably limit the field. I can imagine there was a desire to accommodate Les Reed again post-Curbs, however.
It's more relevant to look at the here and now when looking at the PV/RM attributes. RM has said nothing of any comfort to supporters for pretty much the 2 years RD/KM has been here. As a result there has always been a suspicion he was supporting them. His phone call with Rick backs this up.
My recollection is that Peter was working on the new coaching structure the moment Curbs' departure was decided. It had certainly had been agreed by the Board by the time that Billy Davies was the preferred candidate, before Dowie.
You would know better than me, but it seems surprising that any board would run a recruitment process in which the coaching staff are imposed on the manager regardless of who that person is. It would presumably limit the field. I can imagine there was a desire to accommodate Les Reed again post-Curbs, however.
I think he has to decide whether he wants to stay on the side he currently is. I really hope he walks away - for his sake as he currently has picked the wrong side. It is sad to say this, but had he walked away at the same time as Curbs, he would probably have gone down in history as our greatest ever chairman/owner. It isn't money - he has lost a lot of money to the club since then, it is about legacy. When we die, we take none of our money with us. Murray could now be remembered entirely negatively. What a shame that would be.
I have spoken to Richard Murray today. He rang me last night and again this morning, when I was able to respond, and I give him credit for that. I'm not going to relate the conversation in detail as I don't think that would be appropriate, but suffice to say it wasn't a meeting of minds. A lot was about Peter Varney and none of that was new to me.
However, I will say, which in fact I already knew from other sources, that he is supportive of Karel Fraeye and the RD regime in general and does not accept my contention that they are destroying the club. He compared criticism of RD/KM over Fraeye to criticism he got over appointing Curbishley. I pointed out that Curbs did not come from the Belgian third division.
RM says he is willing to talk to Varney and talk to RD about what PV says, but given what else he has to say about PV I don't personally think that is a realistic way forward.
Thanks for sharing that AB. Very enlightening. RM sounds like a man who doesn't know which parachute chord to pull.
My recollection is that Peter was working on the new coaching structure the moment Curbs' departure was decided. It had certainly had been agreed by the Board by the time that Billy Davies was the preferred candidate, before Dowie.
You would know better than me, but it seems surprising that any board would run a recruitment process in which the coaching staff are imposed on the manager regardless of who that person is. It would presumably limit the field. I can imagine there was a desire to accommodate Les Reed again post-Curbs, however.
Southampton ?
Les is above the manager there, though - I haven't followed it closely but he was a sort of director of football when I last spoke to him. Accept you may mean the structure is as described, regardless of that.
So maybe I'm being a bit naive here but is it to late in the day for Peter Varney to contact RD direct and explain the obstacles he has come up against. If the business deal is good enough them surely with these people money talks!
So maybe I'm being a bit naive here but is it to late in the day for Peter Varney to contact RD direct and explain the obstacles he has come up against. If the business deal is good enough them surely with these people money talks!
He has contacted RD directly and more than once as seen from the emails. RD asked KM to arrange a meeting, she has failed to do so.
Whether that is a lack of interest from RD or a lack of competence from KM we don't know for sure. Maybe both.
It's more relevant to look at the here and now when looking at the PV/RM attributes. RM has said nothing of any comfort to supporters for pretty much the 2 years RD/KM has been here. As a result there has always been a suspicion he was supporting them. His phone call with Rick backs this up.
He needs to go as well
Agreed. If he is defending them and the Belgian Mastermind whilst believing everything is fine then he's just as bad as them.
i would imagine KM and RM are part of the self preservation society. Any potential takeover would see them both out on their ears, so they would make sure 2chalets doesn't find out.
I have spoken to Richard Murray today. He rang me last night and again this morning, when I was able to respond, and I give him credit for that. However, I will say, which in fact I already knew from other sources, that he is supportive of Karel Fraeye and the RD regime in general and does not accept my contention that they are destroying the club. He compared criticism of RD/KM over Fraeye to criticism he got over appointing Curbishley. I pointed out that Curbs did not come from the Belgian third division.
Sadly, if RM is backing Fraeye then it just shows that he does not have the best interests of the club at heart and seems to be being used as a puppet to try to give RD and that dreadful woman some credibility. When he appointed Curbishley and Gritt it was, as far as I recall, cautiously welcomed as a move to get a new way of thinking into the club. They knew the league, the players etc. Fraeye has never had respect from players or fans. If Murray was honest - and he seems unable to be these days - he would admit that had Fraeye applied in an open market he would have probably been treated as a joke applicant and not even given a reply. And had he been honest, he would admit that Fraeye was never, in the board's eyes, an interim appointment.
As I have said before - with regret - Murray now has to be seen as part of the enemy threatening the future of the club we all love. His store of goodwill is exhausted.
I think he has to decide whether he wants to stay on the side he currently is. I really hope he walks away - for his sake as he currently has picked the wrong side. It is sad to say this, but had he walked away at the same time as Curbs, he would probably have gone down in history as our greatest ever chairman/owner. It isn't money - he has lost a lot of money to the club since then, it is about legacy. When we die, we take none of our money with us. Murray could now be remembered entirely negatively. What a shame that would be.
I have spoken to Richard Murray today. He rang me last night and again this morning, when I was able to respond, and I give him credit for that. I'm not going to relate the conversation in detail as I don't think that would be appropriate, but suffice to say it wasn't a meeting of minds. A lot was about Peter Varney and none of that was new to me.
However, I will say, which in fact I already knew from other sources, that he is supportive of Karel Fraeye and the RD regime in general and does not accept my contention that they are destroying the club. He compared criticism of RD/KM over Fraeye to criticism he got over appointing Curbishley. I pointed out that Curbs did not come from the Belgian third division.
RM says he is willing to talk to Varney and talk to RD about what PV says, but given what else he has to say about PV I don't personally think that is a realistic way forward.
Has RM taken a whack on the head. Having watched Curbs build a team from the ground up, seen what it takes to get promotion, have sustained success, how can he think what we have now is acceptable.
I get he doesn't have the authority or influence to change RD's strategy, but to think it's okay is mental. I'm not looking for him to try and suggest possible better ways re: how to improve our performances on/off the pitch, we know RD does what he wants. But to say he's happy with it is ludicrous
Comments
Another reason in an ideal world we need a clean sweep in terms of ownership imo.
What is his job exactly what is a typical day for him? He can't necessarily be needed as KM thinks she would have all the answers by now anyway.
Looks like he is just getting paid to sit there shut the F*ck up and take it up the arse.
He could speak out to the fans if he wanted on an independent basis and try to show understanding...and then could may say but "This is how it is"..
That would at least be something.
Lost a shocking amount of credibility .... Post Curbs.
I sincerely hate them both. And, I think 'hate' is such a strong word but I really feel it with them. Karma has a funny way of turning things around. And, whatever it is, they will deserve it.
He needs to go as well
Whether that is a lack of interest from RD or a lack of competence from KM we don't know for sure. Maybe both.
As I have said before - with regret - Murray now has to be seen as part of the enemy threatening the future of the club we all love. His store of goodwill is exhausted.
I get he doesn't have the authority or influence to change RD's strategy, but to think it's okay is mental. I'm not looking for him to try and suggest possible better ways re: how to improve our performances on/off the pitch, we know RD does what he wants. But to say he's happy with it is ludicrous
Do they sell them in the Club Shop ( refuse to call it a Superstore!) ?
So consumed with his standing against PV he completely misses the point of why people are so dismayed by him.
Open your eyes Richard, your being used. The shit hits the fan and they roll you out and you sing the tune better than them all.
In a hopeless situation you sit in a position to offer influence how ever limited that may be.
You are defending the indefensible and your reputation is unraveling because of it.