23 expelled diplomats who are believed to be spies
Well there’s why the mush was targeted are we saying we only just found out they were spies
Surely as soon as we knew we expell
So if we have just discovered it then some one has grassed them up
And now we have a dead Russian two critically ill Russians one who was a double agent and his daughter who’s Mum and brother have died In accidents in Russia
Hello Jeremy Corbyn even you must accept that’s all a bit leaning towards putin
The problem is, it's the same Jeremy Corbyn who claims he never knew the Czech diplomat he was meeting in the 80s was a spy. He's on Planet Marx, he will never get it.
23 Russian diplomats being expelled. In your face, Pootin.
I'm sure there was a ploy on yes Prime Minister where Hacker failed, and filed hard, over some Russian diplomacy event, and they were left with the only option being expelling Russia diplomants.
I'm no fan of May but I have to say I think her response has been pretty good, so far she has;
- built international consensus for the condemnation of Russia over this incident, not easy given the UKs current position in the world
- refused to play Russia's games by giving them a strict deadline to provide answers and moving swiftly to consequences when they, inevitably, missed it
- convened the UN Security Council to brief them on the situation
- reported the incident to the chemical weapons watchdog
- given 23 Russian "diplomats" a week to leave the country
- terminated formal UK representation at the World Cup
- proposed the freezing of Russia's assets in the U.K.
- made it harder for Putins oligarch mates to come to the UK by increasing checks and customs requirements on private jets coming into our country
What more would you, realistically, have her do?
As I say, no fan of May, but compared to Corbyn - whose first question to PM after her speech today was "have we cooperated with Russia's request to share a sample of the poison so they can analyse it?" - she is actually showing leadership, which is most unexpected.
So essentially, she has blown a lot of hot air and done nothing?
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
Their diplomats will be back in a few months like nothing happened and they will do it again at some point. There is always another way - Putin is the sort that if you posture in front of, he just gives it back with interest - after having a good laugh at you.
23 Russian diplomats being expelled. In your face, Pootin.
I'm sure there was a ploy on yes Prime Minister where Hacker failed, and filed hard, over some Russian diplomacy event, and they were left with the only option being expelling Russia diplomants.
I'm no fan of May but I have to say I think her response has been pretty good, so far she has;
- built international consensus for the condemnation of Russia over this incident, not easy given the UKs current position in the world
- refused to play Russia's games by giving them a strict deadline to provide answers and moving swiftly to consequences when they, inevitably, missed it
- convened the UN Security Council to brief them on the situation
- reported the incident to the chemical weapons watchdog
- given 23 Russian "diplomats" a week to leave the country
- terminated formal UK representation at the World Cup
- proposed the freezing of Russia's assets in the U.K.
- made it harder for Putins oligarch mates to come to the UK by increasing checks and customs requirements on private jets coming into our country
What more would you, realistically, have her do?
As I say, no fan of May, but compared to Corbyn - whose first question to PM after her speech today was "have we cooperated with Russia's request to share a sample of the poison so they can analyse it?" - she is actually showing leadership, which is most unexpected.
So essentially, she has blown a lot of hot air and done nothing?
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
Putin rose to power by essentially blackmailing the oligarchs wealth. I can bet their support will quickly dwindle if their assets get confiscated
23 Russian diplomats being expelled. In your face, Pootin.
I'm sure there was a ploy on yes Prime Minister where Hacker failed, and filed hard, over some Russian diplomacy event, and they were left with the only option being expelling Russia diplomants.
I'm no fan of May but I have to say I think her response has been pretty good, so far she has;
- built international consensus for the condemnation of Russia over this incident, not easy given the UKs current position in the world
- refused to play Russia's games by giving them a strict deadline to provide answers and moving swiftly to consequences when they, inevitably, missed it
- convened the UN Security Council to brief them on the situation
- reported the incident to the chemical weapons watchdog
- given 23 Russian "diplomats" a week to leave the country
- terminated formal UK representation at the World Cup
- proposed the freezing of Russia's assets in the U.K.
- made it harder for Putins oligarch mates to come to the UK by increasing checks and customs requirements on private jets coming into our country
What more would you, realistically, have her do?
As I say, no fan of May, but compared to Corbyn - whose first question to PM after her speech today was "have we cooperated with Russia's request to share a sample of the poison so they can analyse it?" - she is actually showing leadership, which is most unexpected.
So essentially, she has blown a lot of hot air and done nothing?
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
Hasn't she proposed freezing assets of the Russian state?
I would say it is very likely to be state sponsored, but we can't be 100% sure at this stage. It is not impossible that it could be this bloke fell foul of Russian Mafia and they made it look like the state. We need to be sure first. You could argue Putin is part of the Russian Mafia of course, but we basically are very happy to let some unscrupulous Russians live here and court their ill gotten money.It is not impossible these people get involved with the wrong people!
I wouldn't underestimate the hassle it causes their intelligence machine by expelling so many diplomats who are in fact spies. I heard an ex MI5 guy (i think) say that his KGB counterpart told him after the Cold War that when we kicked out 100 in the 70s their ops here never really recovered. It's not enough on its own but its a good start.
23 Russian diplomats being expelled. In your face, Pootin.
I'm sure there was a ploy on yes Prime Minister where Hacker failed, and filed hard, over some Russian diplomacy event, and they were left with the only option being expelling Russia diplomants.
I'm no fan of May but I have to say I think her response has been pretty good, so far she has;
- built international consensus for the condemnation of Russia over this incident, not easy given the UKs current position in the world
- refused to play Russia's games by giving them a strict deadline to provide answers and moving swiftly to consequences when they, inevitably, missed it
- convened the UN Security Council to brief them on the situation
- reported the incident to the chemical weapons watchdog
- given 23 Russian "diplomats" a week to leave the country
- terminated formal UK representation at the World Cup
- proposed the freezing of Russia's assets in the U.K.
- made it harder for Putins oligarch mates to come to the UK by increasing checks and customs requirements on private jets coming into our country
What more would you, realistically, have her do?
As I say, no fan of May, but compared to Corbyn - whose first question to PM after her speech today was "have we cooperated with Russia's request to share a sample of the poison so they can analyse it?" - she is actually showing leadership, which is most unexpected.
So essentially, she has blown a lot of hot air and done nothing?
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
Hasn't she proposed freezing assets of the Russian state?
Britain “will freeze Russian state assets wherever we have the evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents”.
So no, she hasn't. I bet not a single penny of Russian money will be frozen.
I don't. It's such a bad article that I wonder if the writer took a bung. The poison was held only by the Russian state. Either they did it, or it was stolen/sold to a third party. They have refused to respond as to which. We are entitled to draw conclusions accordingly.
Article was really weak saying there is no discernible motive when there are loads of plausible theories going around as to motive, particularly that Putin has an election next week and wants to frame it as Russia under siege from the west to get turnout up (he will win of course)
I would say it is very likely to be state sponsored, but we can't be 100% sure at this stage. It is not impossible that it could be this bloke fell foul of Russian Mafia and they made it look like the state. We need to be sure first. You could argue Putin is part of the Russian Mafia of course, but we basically are very happy to let some unscrupulous Russians live here and court their ill gotten money.It is not impossible these people get involved with the wrong people!
Russian multi millionaires and billionaires are gangsters. What does russia produce that would make some one so wealthy? Brits and Americans have financial services that create billionaires, China has manufacturing as does Germany. Russia? Just the industries that until the fall of the soviets were key state owned industries like gas which, to abramovich’s own court testimony, were sold off way below value in a rigged auction so they were guaranteed to win. Why were they guaranteed to win? Because Yeltsin wanted the Russian mafia to rough up people to go vote for him.
The Russian mafia have been the hitmen for the Russian state domestically for years, now they’ve been spreading their wings into Britain.
I would say it is very likely to be state sponsored, but we can't be 100% sure at this stage. It is not impossible that it could be this bloke fell foul of Russian Mafia and they made it look like the state. We need to be sure first. You could argue Putin is part of the Russian Mafia of course, but we basically are very happy to let some unscrupulous Russians live here and court their ill gotten money.It is not impossible these people get involved with the wrong people!
Russian multi millionaires and billionaires are gangsters. What does russia produce that would make some one so wealthy? Brits and Americans have financial services that create billionaires, China has manufacturing as does Germany. Russia? Just the industries that until the fall of the soviets were key state owned industries like gas which, to abramovich’s own court testimony, were sold off way below value in a rigged auction so they were guaranteed to win. Why were they guaranteed to win? Because Yeltsin wanted the Russian mafia to rough up people to go vote for him.
The Russian mafia have been the hitmen for the Russian state domestically for years, now they’ve been spreading their wings into Britain.
Absolutely on the money. As is this excellent article, first posted by @carly burn on the other thread. Focuses on Abramovic
Expel Putin pal Abramovich, potless at 25, billionaire at 35 through the misappropriation of Russian state assets. Shameful how he was allowed to run a club in Britain.
23 Russian diplomats being expelled. In your face, Pootin.
I'm sure there was a ploy on yes Prime Minister where Hacker failed, and filed hard, over some Russian diplomacy event, and they were left with the only option being expelling Russia diplomants.
I'm no fan of May but I have to say I think her response has been pretty good, so far she has;
- built international consensus for the condemnation of Russia over this incident, not easy given the UKs current position in the world
- refused to play Russia's games by giving them a strict deadline to provide answers and moving swiftly to consequences when they, inevitably, missed it
- convened the UN Security Council to brief them on the situation
- reported the incident to the chemical weapons watchdog
- given 23 Russian "diplomats" a week to leave the country
- terminated formal UK representation at the World Cup
- proposed the freezing of Russia's assets in the U.K.
- made it harder for Putins oligarch mates to come to the UK by increasing checks and customs requirements on private jets coming into our country
What more would you, realistically, have her do?
As I say, no fan of May, but compared to Corbyn - whose first question to PM after her speech today was "have we cooperated with Russia's request to share a sample of the poison so they can analyse it?" - she is actually showing leadership, which is most unexpected.
So essentially, she has blown a lot of hot air and done nothing?
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
Hasn't she proposed freezing assets of the Russian state?
Britain “will freeze Russian state assets wherever we have the evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents”.
So no, she hasn't. I bet not a single penny of Russian money will be frozen.
Righto, we should just take the Corbyn approach and give the Russians a sample of the poison so they can prove that it was nothing to do with them.
No it is playing the game - they deny it - we take our time and properly investigate and give them the opportunity to prove it wasn't them also. Of course it almost certainly was them, but there are some scenarios where it might not point directly to Putin. Just get your facts right.
In the meantime - talk to them - they are denying it which helps you- get assurances and promises nothing like this will happen on our soil again. May not count for anything but more chance it will than the approach we are taking which is just posturing and when push comes to shove we still will want Russian money. You may notice across Europe that the real sanction that would hurt Russia - not buying its gas - is the one everybody avoids.
23 Russian diplomats being expelled. In your face, Pootin.
I'm sure there was a ploy on yes Prime Minister where Hacker failed, and filed hard, over some Russian diplomacy event, and they were left with the only option being expelling Russia diplomants.
I'm no fan of May but I have to say I think her response has been pretty good, so far she has;
- built international consensus for the condemnation of Russia over this incident, not easy given the UKs current position in the world
- refused to play Russia's games by giving them a strict deadline to provide answers and moving swiftly to consequences when they, inevitably, missed it
- convened the UN Security Council to brief them on the situation
- reported the incident to the chemical weapons watchdog
- given 23 Russian "diplomats" a week to leave the country
- terminated formal UK representation at the World Cup
- proposed the freezing of Russia's assets in the U.K.
- made it harder for Putins oligarch mates to come to the UK by increasing checks and customs requirements on private jets coming into our country
What more would you, realistically, have her do?
As I say, no fan of May, but compared to Corbyn - whose first question to PM after her speech today was "have we cooperated with Russia's request to share a sample of the poison so they can analyse it?" - she is actually showing leadership, which is most unexpected.
So essentially, she has blown a lot of hot air and done nothing?
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
Hasn't she proposed freezing assets of the Russian state?
Britain “will freeze Russian state assets wherever we have the evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents”.
So no, she hasn't. I bet not a single penny of Russian money will be frozen.
Righto, we should just take the Corbyn approach and give the Russians a sample of the poison so they can prove that it was nothing to do with them.
Political point scoring nonsense.
How about they're both wrong? A man was murdered on our soil by another country and our response is to tell them we won't go to the world cup and some of their spies have to go home.
Hardly a punishment. Economic sanctions is the only thing they will respond to.
23 Russian diplomats being expelled. In your face, Pootin.
I'm sure there was a ploy on yes Prime Minister where Hacker failed, and filed hard, over some Russian diplomacy event, and they were left with the only option being expelling Russia diplomants.
I'm no fan of May but I have to say I think her response has been pretty good, so far she has;
- built international consensus for the condemnation of Russia over this incident, not easy given the UKs current position in the world
- refused to play Russia's games by giving them a strict deadline to provide answers and moving swiftly to consequences when they, inevitably, missed it
- convened the UN Security Council to brief them on the situation
- reported the incident to the chemical weapons watchdog
- given 23 Russian "diplomats" a week to leave the country
- terminated formal UK representation at the World Cup
- proposed the freezing of Russia's assets in the U.K.
- made it harder for Putins oligarch mates to come to the UK by increasing checks and customs requirements on private jets coming into our country
What more would you, realistically, have her do?
As I say, no fan of May, but compared to Corbyn - whose first question to PM after her speech today was "have we cooperated with Russia's request to share a sample of the poison so they can analyse it?" - she is actually showing leadership, which is most unexpected.
So essentially, she has blown a lot of hot air and done nothing?
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
Hasn't she proposed freezing assets of the Russian state?
Britain “will freeze Russian state assets wherever we have the evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents”.
So no, she hasn't. I bet not a single penny of Russian money will be frozen.
Righto, we should just take the Corbyn approach and give the Russians a sample of the poison so they can prove that it was nothing to do with them.
Political point scoring nonsense.
How about they're both wrong? A man was murdered on our soil by another country and our response is to tell them we won't go to the world cup and some of their spies have to go home.
Hardly a punishment. Economic sanctions is the only thing they will respond to.
That isn't our response though, is it? That's what you've taken as our response. The prime minister actually outlined a number of other responses that you've ignored.
This morning an American commentator was reassuring us on the Today R4 Programme that despite Trump's silence, we can be sure the USA is with us, as Rex Tillerson had spoken strongly against the attack and Russian involvement.
There is now one great big problem with that:
Trump has just fired Tillerson.
Got bad news for you. If Trump does not care about Russian hacking of our election here, he ain't gonna give a shit about dead ex-spies in England. Plan to be on your own. Sorry.
So annoying Russia makes us all safer then? Serious question.
Fuck them. Better to die on our feet than live on our knees and Putin has been taking the piss for years now the fat titted bully.
Start creating a world where we appease psychopaths and bullies and it won't be a world worth living in.
I do agree that cordial relationships, dialogue and diplomacy even with these types are always desirable and should be sought but time comes when you have to show a bit of balls and stand up to this sort of shit.
We should have gone into Syria years back and I was one of the many in a moment of cowardice and self preservation that breathed a huge sigh of relief when we bottled that to appease Putin. The suffering and deaths of thousands innocent Syrians now could potentially have been averted had we intervened as Obama wanted to but the Russian blocked it for his own interests.
23 Russian diplomats being expelled. In your face, Pootin.
I'm sure there was a ploy on yes Prime Minister where Hacker failed, and filed hard, over some Russian diplomacy event, and they were left with the only option being expelling Russia diplomants.
I'm no fan of May but I have to say I think her response has been pretty good, so far she has;
- built international consensus for the condemnation of Russia over this incident, not easy given the UKs current position in the world
- refused to play Russia's games by giving them a strict deadline to provide answers and moving swiftly to consequences when they, inevitably, missed it
- convened the UN Security Council to brief them on the situation
- reported the incident to the chemical weapons watchdog
- given 23 Russian "diplomats" a week to leave the country
- terminated formal UK representation at the World Cup
- proposed the freezing of Russia's assets in the U.K.
- made it harder for Putins oligarch mates to come to the UK by increasing checks and customs requirements on private jets coming into our country
What more would you, realistically, have her do?
As I say, no fan of May, but compared to Corbyn - whose first question to PM after her speech today was "have we cooperated with Russia's request to share a sample of the poison so they can analyse it?" - she is actually showing leadership, which is most unexpected.
So essentially, she has blown a lot of hot air and done nothing?
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
Hasn't she proposed freezing assets of the Russian state?
Britain “will freeze Russian state assets wherever we have the evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents”.
So no, she hasn't. I bet not a single penny of Russian money will be frozen.
Righto, we should just take the Corbyn approach and give the Russians a sample of the poison so they can prove that it was nothing to do with them.
Political point scoring nonsense.
How about they're both wrong? A man was murdered on our soil by another country and our response is to tell them we won't go to the world cup and some of their spies have to go home.
Hardly a punishment. Economic sanctions is the only thing they will respond to.
That isn't our response though, is it? That's what you've taken as our response. The prime minister actually outlined a number of other responses that you've ignored.
Which ones do you believe would cause Russia to actually think twice about doing it again?
The final two are the ones that might have an impact. But freezing assets hasn't happened and increasing checks doesn't mean anything if no one is blocked.
This morning an American commentator was reassuring us on the Today R4 Programme that despite Trump's silence, we can be sure the USA is with us, as Rex Tillerson had spoken strongly against the attack and Russian involvement.
There is now one great big problem with that:
Trump has just fired Tillerson.
Got bad news for you. If Trump does not care about Russian hacking of our election here, he ain't gonna give a shit about dead ex-spies in England. You need to plan to be on your own. Sorry.
Er, yes. Personally I understood that from the time of his election. There is some irony in my post above, but I know you guys are not mad on irony, it being a commodity you can't make money on :-)
This morning an American commentator was reassuring us on the Today R4 Programme that despite Trump's silence, we can be sure the USA is with us, as Rex Tillerson had spoken strongly against the attack and Russian involvement.
There is now one great big problem with that:
Trump has just fired Tillerson.
Got bad news for you. If Trump does not care about Russian hacking of our election here, he ain't gonna give a shit about dead ex-spies in England. Plan to be on your own. Sorry.
We refused Trump a state visit why on earth would anyone expect him to come running to our aid now is beyond me. Brexit has ensured that our European neighbours won't exactly be chomping at the bit to get in the crossfire either.
I'm not scared of Putin, but I think he can be better manipulated with a bit of nous and understanding. When you are dealing with these sort of people - you look at what you want from them then work out how best to get it. of course fake posturing looks good, but it makes people like Putin more likely to test you. It is a case of using your head really - we can't change what Russia is.
He is a gangster but he isn't a mad gangster. He is unsavoury but there are a few unsavoury leaders out there.
I haven't got a problem with the statement Defence Secretary, Gavin Williamson made a few months ago when he vowed to hunt down and kill all British-born IS traitors abroad. If this bloke is considered a traitor in Russia the are not taking a wildly different approach. Where a line was crossed was the method put British lives at risk.
But it happened and my priority if I was prime minister was how to stop it happening again. That is what people don't get about Corbyn - instead of faux outrage and token actions, he looks at how it can be stopped by negotiation and reasoning. If our relations with Russia was better, it would be easier to get them to respect us.
But it is all about posturing and gut reactions, and actually having an effect to stop this happening again falls by the wayside. Pragmatism and realism are qualities here. It isn't to absolve Russia but they are denying it, that is a position that allows you to talk to them and try to improve the situation!
23 Russian diplomats being expelled. In your face, Pootin.
I'm sure there was a ploy on yes Prime Minister where Hacker failed, and filed hard, over some Russian diplomacy event, and they were left with the only option being expelling Russia diplomants.
I'm no fan of May but I have to say I think her response has been pretty good, so far she has;
- built international consensus for the condemnation of Russia over this incident, not easy given the UKs current position in the world
- refused to play Russia's games by giving them a strict deadline to provide answers and moving swiftly to consequences when they, inevitably, missed it
- convened the UN Security Council to brief them on the situation
- reported the incident to the chemical weapons watchdog
- given 23 Russian "diplomats" a week to leave the country
- terminated formal UK representation at the World Cup
- proposed the freezing of Russia's assets in the U.K.
- made it harder for Putins oligarch mates to come to the UK by increasing checks and customs requirements on private jets coming into our country
What more would you, realistically, have her do?
As I say, no fan of May, but compared to Corbyn - whose first question to PM after her speech today was "have we cooperated with Russia's request to share a sample of the poison so they can analyse it?" - she is actually showing leadership, which is most unexpected.
So essentially, she has blown a lot of hot air and done nothing?
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
Hasn't she proposed freezing assets of the Russian state?
Britain “will freeze Russian state assets wherever we have the evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents”.
So no, she hasn't. I bet not a single penny of Russian money will be frozen.
Righto, we should just take the Corbyn approach and give the Russians a sample of the poison so they can prove that it was nothing to do with them.
Political point scoring nonsense.
How about they're both wrong? A man was murdered on our soil by another country and our response is to tell them we won't go to the world cup and some of their spies have to go home.
Hardly a punishment. Economic sanctions is the only thing they will respond to.
That isn't our response though, is it? That's what you've taken as our response. The prime minister actually outlined a number of other responses that you've ignored.
Which ones do you believe would cause Russia to actually think twice about doing it again?
The final two are the ones that might have an impact. But freezing assets hasn't happened and increasing checks doesn't mean anything if no one is blocked.
But May can't freeze assets on her own - she needs parliaments consent for that, which she has proposed today - are you suggesting she seize control?
You've also completely ignored the international consensus that she's built too, I honestly wasn't sure that we would automatically receive such support form far and wide due to some of the other things that are going on right now with our country.
Again, not a May supporter but think she's done well here - not sure what more you are expecting and you aren't making that clear.
His quench for wealth was well documented in the BBC program last week. I guess when you're done with wealth you move on to world domination to give you a fix. :-(
No point mate, nothing we can do to influence it. As Muttley says he's a psycopath and gangster but shrewd and calculating. Everything to lose and nothing to gain by going too far.
I find it interesting (conspiracy tin hat on) that just as the news of Trump and Kim Jong Un having a love up and releasing some of the tension that has been bubbling up for the past year in the world's psyche that this now comes to the forefront.
It's almost if those in power in government and the media want to keep the masses in a perpetual state of fear, paralysis and servitude so that we are grateful to our wise protectors who know best and don't kick off too much about the trains, shit housing market, economic prospects etc.
"Nevermind that most kids now will unlikely own a house despite working 10 hour days for 50 years at least they are protecting us from the scary Russians/ISIS/North Koreans/ Soviets/Eastern European gypsies who want to eat our swans whilst pissing on Diana's memorial and shitting on the Union flag"
Comments
Hit Russia where it hurts, their money. Putin doesn't give a damn about any diplomats/World Cup representation.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/vladimir-putin-is-innocent-until-proven-guilty-in-the-russian-spy-case/
So no, she hasn't. I bet not a single penny of Russian money will be frozen.
Article was really weak saying there is no discernible motive when there are loads of plausible theories going around as to motive, particularly that Putin has an election next week and wants to frame it as Russia under siege from the west to get turnout up (he will win of course)
The Russian mafia have been the hitmen for the Russian state domestically for years, now they’ve been spreading their wings into Britain.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-spy-case-could-spell-trouble-for-abramovich-wcwzvwh8g?shareToken=ed09d7718352d47f56f55a64587b0255
In the meantime - talk to them - they are denying it which helps you- get assurances and promises nothing like this will happen on our soil again. May not count for anything but more chance it will than the approach we are taking which is just posturing and when push comes to shove we still will want Russian money. You may notice across Europe that the real sanction that would hurt Russia - not buying its gas - is the one everybody avoids.
How about they're both wrong? A man was murdered on our soil by another country and our response is to tell them we won't go to the world cup and some of their spies have to go home.
Hardly a punishment. Economic sanctions is the only thing they will respond to.
Start creating a world where we appease psychopaths and bullies and it won't be a world worth living in.
I do agree that cordial relationships, dialogue and diplomacy even with these types are always desirable and should be sought but time comes when you have to show a bit of balls and stand up to this sort of shit.
We should have gone into Syria years back and I was one of the many in a moment of cowardice and self preservation that breathed a huge sigh of relief when we bottled that to appease Putin. The suffering and deaths of thousands innocent Syrians now could potentially have been averted had we intervened as Obama wanted to but the Russian blocked it for his own interests.
The final two are the ones that might have an impact. But freezing assets hasn't happened and increasing checks doesn't mean anything if no one is blocked.
I haven't got a problem with the statement Defence Secretary, Gavin Williamson made a few months ago when he vowed to hunt down and kill all British-born IS traitors abroad. If this bloke is considered a traitor in Russia the are not taking a wildly different approach. Where a line was crossed was the method put British lives at risk.
But it happened and my priority if I was prime minister was how to stop it happening again. That is what people don't get about Corbyn - instead of faux outrage and token actions, he looks at how it can be stopped by negotiation and reasoning. If our relations with Russia was better, it would be easier to get them to respect us.
But it is all about posturing and gut reactions, and actually having an effect to stop this happening again falls by the wayside. Pragmatism and realism are qualities here. It isn't to absolve Russia but they are denying it, that is a position that allows you to talk to them and try to improve the situation!
You've also completely ignored the international consensus that she's built too, I honestly wasn't sure that we would automatically receive such support form far and wide due to some of the other things that are going on right now with our country.
Again, not a May supporter but think she's done well here - not sure what more you are expecting and you aren't making that clear.
:-(
I find it interesting (conspiracy tin hat on) that just as the news of Trump and Kim Jong Un having a love up and releasing some of the tension that has been bubbling up for the past year in the world's psyche that this now comes to the forefront.
It's almost if those in power in government and the media want to keep the masses in a perpetual state of fear, paralysis and servitude so that we are grateful to our wise protectors who know best and don't kick off too much about the trains, shit housing market, economic prospects etc.
"Nevermind that most kids now will unlikely own a house despite working 10 hour days for 50 years at least they are protecting us from the scary Russians/ISIS/North Koreans/ Soviets/Eastern European gypsies who want to eat our swans whilst pissing on Diana's memorial and shitting on the Union flag"