@hoof_it_up_to_benty has opened a separate thread on the BBC 2 prog on Putin last night. A must watch programme for all, I would say. Mostly known stuff but pulled together to emphasise just what the world is dealing with.
Would the Russians have the balls to do this to the Israelis? Perhaps we should ponder why the Russians believe they can act with impunity in our country but would think twice with another relatively small nuclear power. We need to question whether the liberalism we espouse has made us seem weak to our enemies and has unwisely tied our hands when it comes to deterring future attacks.
There is absolutely no automatic connection between having a liberal society and a weak rule of law and defence. The Swedes make a decent job of it and they feel under more physical threat from Russian than others for obvious geographical reasons. And they are not in NATO, although it is discussed more and more.
It;s funny you should make the point now, as I have just been reading that the Lib Dem conference is this weekend. Who knew? Farage is everywhere, yet the Lib Dems with elected MPs get no coverage. Well Ed Davey, now home affairs minister and previously my MP, has absolutely nailed it, IMO.
“I’m extraordinarily worried about what’s happening to our police, both in my constituency and elsewhere. And I’ve long felt that Lib Dem values are more in tune with the police than many people think,” he said. “You have no civil liberties, or they are likely to be significantly reduced, if you don’t have good law and order."
Last year I had the chance to discuss this with the policeman who did an excellent job in following up clear cases of online threats and intimidation of a group of six Charlton fans, seen as CARD activists. It was shocking to hear of the antiquated nature of the police IT system, and the ridiculous complications he faced just due to the fact that suspect lived outside the Met area. I don't know a single 'liberal' who doesn't agree that a strong, well resourced police force and security service is absolutely essential to ensure the security and well being of citizens.
Would the Russians have the balls to do this to the Israelis? Perhaps we should ponder why the Russians believe they can act with impunity in our country but would think twice with another relatively small nuclear power. We need to question whether the liberalism we espouse has made us seem weak to our enemies and has unwisely tied our hands when it comes to deterring future attacks.
What....exactly...are you proposing?
we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender,
Corbyn’s performance was back to being embarrassing in the commons today. Whatever way he’s justifiably got himself back up in the polls, he’ll always be incredibly weak on foreign policy, a shame really.
Theresa may’s statement was well measured, firm but you feel she’s also left just a crack open for Putin to weasel his way out and de-escalate things without making himself look like a tit.
Have been planning to go on holiday to Russia this summer (trans-siberian railway) but I have to say we are having serious second thoughts about visiting the country after these latest events. I know some people say it's important to separate the country and people from the regime but it doesn't feel quite right with this on top of the Syria involvement as well.
That was a ballsy statement by Theresa May and if they think that then they need to work out what the course of action will be as it’s a bold call
Make a bold statement and then fail to back it up makes you look even more ridiculous than saying nothing. Moscow will flatly deny any involvement as usual so what are we going to do ?
Corbyn’s performance was back to being embarrassing in the commons today. Whatever way he’s justifiably got himself back up in the polls, he’ll always be incredibly weak on foreign policy, a shame really.
Theresa may’s statement was well measured, firm but you feel she’s also left just a crack open for Putin to weasel his way out and de-escalate things without making himself look like a tit.
Corbyn rightly took a kicking for it, not least of all from MPs in his own party!
I disagree now that she has said that and once the official report is is out she will have to go to NATO and get resolution from them,
Theres nothing the UK have to do other than prove it ,if we can and i dont doubt that then for any state government to do whats been done it will need to resolution from more than just us
Gas may well be cheaper and maybe a more streamlined trade deal with Russia be utilsed, worth a few poisoned double agents imo
The scary thing is Russia used a nerve gas that could only be traced back to them. They see Britain as a busted flush with no clout on the international stage. Prime minister May did a good speech but how can we back up the words. Sending diplomats home won't make any difference. Putin hated our stance on the doping issue that why Russia were behind the hacking of top British athletes and the fact they all seemed to have asthma. Vladimir Putin wants us to pull out of the World cup. He plays on weaknesses of countries and individuals. The big black dog showing up when Angela Merkel was visiting when he knew her fears sums up this modern day tyrant.
I disagree now that she has said that and once the official report is is out she will have to go to NATO and get resolution from them,
Theres nothing the UK have to do other than prove it ,if we can and i dont doubt that then for any state government to do whats been done it will need to resolution from more than just us
Gas may well be cheaper and maybe a more streamlined trade deal with Russia be utilsed, worth a few poisoned double agents imo
I get what you are saying, but can't really allow them to go around killing people in our yard (though I'm sure we do the same) as you say, see what NATO do... It's what it's supposed to be there for
I disagree now that she has said that and once the official report is is out she will have to go to NATO and get resolution from them,
Theres nothing the UK have to do other than prove it ,if we can and i dont doubt that then for any state government to do whats been done it will need to resolution from more than just us
Gas may well be cheaper and maybe a more streamlined trade deal with Russia be utilsed, worth a few poisoned double agents imo
I get what you are saying, but can't really allow them to go around killing people in our yard (though I'm sure we do the same) as you say, see what NATO do... It's what it's supposed to be there for
I am not sure quite what anyone expects NATO to do. Either way, here is the problem: The USA is a key member. Does anyone have to hand POTUS tweets supporting May's speech? Condemning the attack? Anybody seen them? I mean he was trolling the London Mayor within 30 minutes of the last terrorist attack.
I have to say that I would still want a bit more detail in order to be sure that this is actually Putin-run, having heard more about this Noricok agent. It is apparently quite old, and never been used before. So why exactly would he wheel this out now, to bump off somebody whom he already had in jail for several years? And I say this as somebody who would be happy to be designated the most anti-Putin Lifer.
What do people think about boycotting the World Cup?
I'd be for it as part of a series of measures, sends a message to Putin. Wouldn't be popular with footie fans but some things are more important than sport.
What do people think about boycotting the World Cup?
I'd be for it as part of a series of measures, sends a message to Putin. Wouldn't be popular with footie fans but some things are more important than sport.
Pointless unless we can have other nations follow suit.
Hopefully, as close allies, the Scottish, Irish, Italian, Dutch and US teams would also participate in the boycott.
What do people think about boycotting the World Cup?
I'd be for it as part of a series of measures, sends a message to Putin. Wouldn't be popular with footie fans but some things are more important than sport.
I think we should compromise.
We should turn up, play badly and not go through to the later stages. Like we always do.
What do people think about boycotting the World Cup?
I'd be for it as part of a series of measures, sends a message to Putin. Wouldn't be popular with footie fans but some things are more important than sport.
Totally against a pointless boycott of the finals.
what Putin is doing is pushing for weakness -----probably has feck all to do with the UK in his big picture ,more to do with reaction or lack of. If there is no collective action he can crack on foing what he wants----some sort of reaction will at least make him re think. Dosnt really have to be that big a reaction just a inited one.
what Putin is doing is pushing for weakness -----probably has feck all to do with the UK in his big picture ,more to do with reaction or lack of. If there is no collective action he can crack on foing what he wants----some sort of reaction will at least make him re think. Dosnt really have to be that big a reaction just a inited one.
Contrast him branding the Champs-Elysee attacker a Muslim terrorist on Twitter within 30 minutes, only for the world to learn that the guy was a career criminal, and had been guilty of violent attacks on police 20 years earlier.
Comments
It;s funny you should make the point now, as I have just been reading that the Lib Dem conference is this weekend. Who knew? Farage is everywhere, yet the Lib Dems with elected MPs get no coverage. Well Ed Davey, now home affairs minister and previously my MP, has absolutely nailed it, IMO.
“I’m extraordinarily worried about what’s happening to our police, both in my constituency and elsewhere. And I’ve long felt that Lib Dem values are more in tune with the police than many people think,” he said. “You have no civil liberties, or they are likely to be significantly reduced, if you don’t have good law and order."
Last year I had the chance to discuss this with the policeman who did an excellent job in following up clear cases of online threats and intimidation of a group of six Charlton fans, seen as CARD activists. It was shocking to hear of the antiquated nature of the police IT system, and the ridiculous complications he faced just due to the fact that suspect lived outside the Met area. I don't know a single 'liberal' who doesn't agree that a strong, well resourced police force and security service is absolutely essential to ensure the security and well being of citizens.
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender,
But she needs to back it up with action as appropriate.
Theresa may’s statement was well measured, firm but you feel she’s also left just a crack open for Putin to weasel his way out and de-escalate things without making himself look like a tit.
That'll show them
Theres nothing the UK have to do other than prove it ,if we can and i dont doubt that then for any state government to do whats been done it will need to resolution from more than just us
Gas may well be cheaper and maybe a more streamlined trade deal with Russia be utilsed, worth a few poisoned double agents imo
I am not sure quite what anyone expects NATO to do. Either way, here is the problem: The USA is a key member. Does anyone have to hand POTUS tweets supporting May's speech? Condemning the attack? Anybody seen them? I mean he was trolling the London Mayor within 30 minutes of the last terrorist attack.
Here is a coherent view of the various options.
I have to say that I would still want a bit more detail in order to be sure that this is actually Putin-run, having heard more about this Noricok agent. It is apparently quite old, and never been used before. So why exactly would he wheel this out now, to bump off somebody whom he already had in jail for several years? And I say this as somebody who would be happy to be designated the most anti-Putin Lifer.
Easy on the surgery fella!
I'd be for it as part of a series of measures, sends a message to Putin. Wouldn't be popular with footie fans but some things are more important than sport.
Hopefully, as close allies, the Scottish, Irish, Italian, Dutch and US teams would also participate in the boycott.
We should turn up, play badly and not go through to the later stages. Like we always do.