If there is anyone out there who still does not believe that Putin is a murderous thug, contemptuous of democracy and human life, and a massive danger to world peace, they should read this and be in no further doubt.
The best we can hope for is that Luguvoi will himself eventually die a slow and horrible death from his own crime, as he seems to have been a walking dose of Polonium 210.
At the same time I am in awe of Marina Litvinenko, a woman whose love for her husband even after his death compels her to fight for justice, taking on this entire murderous regime in the process. A woman to have by your side through the very worst of times. She, rather than Putin, is the very embodiment of the Russian soul.
There's a fkd up story in the mail about this and that the dead fella had seen videos of vlad gone bad and noncing kids
Sounds like the Russian elite class are no better than our own politicians, police officers and other highly thought of people that have recently had the spotlight shone on them for similar crimes.
It would seem that we just wait for them to either fall mentally ill or die before deciding not to follow the claims up, whereas Russia simply off anyone that may spill the beans on their ruling elite.
If there is anyone out there who still does not believe that Putin is a murderous thug, contemptuous of democracy and human life, and a massive danger to world peace, they should read this and be in no further doubt.
The best we can hope for is that Luguvoi will himself eventually die a slow and horrible death from his own crime, as he seems to have been a walking dose of Polonium 210.
At the same time I am in awe of Marina Litvinenko, a woman whose love for her husband even after his death compels her to fight for justice, taking on this entire murderous regime in the process. A woman to have by your side through the very worst of times. She, rather than Putin, is the very embodiment of the Russian soul.
Careful, you're Putin your life on the line with comments like these
The raging question in the world today is who is the real Vladimir Putin and what are his intentions. Karen Dawisha’s brilliant Putin’s Kleptocracy provides an answer, describing how Putin got to power, the cabal he brought with him, the billions they have looted, and his plan to restore the Greater Russia.
Russian scholar Dawisha describes and exposes the origins of Putin’s kleptocratic regime. She presents extensive new evidence about the Putin circle’s use of public positions for personal gain even before Putin became president in 2000. She documents the establishment of Bank Rossiya, now sanctioned by the US; the rise of the Ozero cooperative, founded by Putin and others who are now subject to visa bans and asset freezes; the links between Putin, Petromed, and “Putin’s Palace” near Sochi; and the role of security officials from Putin’s KGB days in Leningrad and Dresden, many of whom have maintained their contacts with Russian organized crime.
Putin’s Kleptocracy is the result of years of research into the KGB and the various Russian crime syndicates. Dawisha’s sources include Stasi archives; Russian insiders; investigative journalists in the US, Britain, Germany, Finland, France, and Italy; and Western officials who served in Moscow. Russian journalists wrote part of this story when the Russian media was still free. “Many of them died for this story, and their work has largely been scrubbed from the Internet, and even from Russian libraries,” Dawisha says. “But some of that work remains.”
There's a fkd up story in the mail about this and that the dead fella had seen videos of vlad gone bad and noncing kids
That's included in the article Prague linked to in the opening post, along with other allegations, including that Putin orchestrated the bombing of ordinary Russian civilians in order to start military operations in Chechnya. I'd recommend that you read it as it gives a good overview of the story of Litvinenko's death.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
The world is a slightly better place without him.
Oh so thats all right then.
Met him, did you?
Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule and/or scrutiny as any others.
I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.
I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
Of course i havent met him, thats why i dont rush to condemn him in the foul way the other poster did.
As to your question about our special forces, I have rather more faith in them than in these Russian thugs. For a start, none of them choose the limelight. Have you seen what has happened to Lugovoi since? No, on reflection you probably have no idea what Im on about.
Touchy little fella, aren't you?
How can you have more faith in a like for like organisation? You know as little about our special forces as you do theirs, other than what is drip fed through various channels (and a lot of that is put out as smoke and mirrors to appease the masses that think they have a right to know sensitive information). I know we all like to think that our sh*t doesn't stink but the truth is more than likely that they're all as bad as each other.
Thanks for completely dismissing my, and assuming I don't have any, thoughts on Lugovoi before you'd heard them. That sort of dismissive attitude neither serves you well, shows you in a good light or wins a reasoned debate.
Good day to you, sir.
Yes, I am. Especially when irked by a Spanner talking bollocks on a Charlton forum :-)
Seriously, if you had lived for 22 years with the Czechs, (and a Czech) you might have a better understanding as to why there can be no comparison between MI6 and the FSB.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, we live in an advanced democracy subject to the rule of law. All our spies and military forces have been brought up in such a state.
None of those things are true about Russia or a Russian. Therefore you are not comparing like for like. They are hardly on the same planet. And the difference is widening. As this appalling episode, and the meticulous investigation of it which only a country like the UK could conduct, demonstrates.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
The world is a slightly better place without him.
Oh so thats all right then.
Met him, did you?
Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule and/or scrutiny as any others.
I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.
I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
Of course i havent met him, thats why i dont rush to condemn him in the foul way the other poster did.
As to your question about our special forces, I have rather more faith in them than in these Russian thugs. For a start, none of them choose the limelight. Have you seen what has happened to Lugovoi since? No, on reflection you probably have no idea what Im on about.
Touchy little fella, aren't you?
How can you have more faith in a like for like organisation? You know as little about our special forces as you do theirs, other than what is drip fed through various channels (and a lot of that is put out as smoke and mirrors to appease the masses that think they have a right to know sensitive information). I know we all like to think that our sh*t doesn't stink but the truth is more than likely that they're all as bad as each other.
Thanks for completely dismissing my, and assuming I don't have any, thoughts on Lugovoi before you'd heard them. That sort of dismissive attitude neither serves you well, shows you in a good light or wins a reasoned debate.
Good day to you, sir.
Yes, I am. Especially when irked by a Spanner talking bollocks on a Charlton forum :-)
Seriously, if you had lived for 22 years with the Czechs, (and a Czech) you might have a better understanding as to why there can be no comparison between MI6 and the FSB.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, we live in an advanced democracy subject to the rule of law. All our spies and military forces have been brought up in such a state.
None of those things are true about Russia or a Russian. Therefore you are not comparing like for like. They are hardly on the same planet. And the difference is widening. As this appalling episode, and the meticulous investigation of it which only a country like the UK could conduct, demonstrates.
Look where the British sense of fair play gets us - we get walked over from every direction.
I cannot accept that we refuse to get our hands dirty and bloodied where national interests require protection.
Can you ever see the Russians allowing people who don't even live within their borders or who have never even visited their country claim legal aid from the Russian state to sue the Russian government for alleged abuse during war as the Iraqi's are currently doing with the UK, driven by British based law firms?
As much as I abhor tyranny, I accept the need and justification to get ugly when extreme measures are required to protect our national interests and our worldwide perception as a strong and secure nation.
The raging question in the world today is who is the real Vladimir Putin and what are his intentions. Karen Dawisha’s brilliant Putin’s Kleptocracy provides an answer, describing how Putin got to power, the cabal he brought with him, the billions they have looted, and his plan to restore the Greater Russia.
Russian scholar Dawisha describes and exposes the origins of Putin’s kleptocratic regime. She presents extensive new evidence about the Putin circle’s use of public positions for personal gain even before Putin became president in 2000. She documents the establishment of Bank Rossiya, now sanctioned by the US; the rise of the Ozero cooperative, founded by Putin and others who are now subject to visa bans and asset freezes; the links between Putin, Petromed, and “Putin’s Palace” near Sochi; and the role of security officials from Putin’s KGB days in Leningrad and Dresden, many of whom have maintained their contacts with Russian organized crime.
Putin’s Kleptocracy is the result of years of research into the KGB and the various Russian crime syndicates. Dawisha’s sources include Stasi archives; Russian insiders; investigative journalists in the US, Britain, Germany, Finland, France, and Italy; and Western officials who served in Moscow. Russian journalists wrote part of this story when the Russian media was still free. “Many of them died for this story, and their work has largely been scrubbed from the Internet, and even from Russian libraries,” Dawisha says. “But some of that work remains.”
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
The world is a slightly better place without him.
Oh so thats all right then.
Met him, did you?
Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule and/or scrutiny as any others.
I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.
I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
Of course i havent met him, thats why i dont rush to condemn him in the foul way the other poster did.
As to your question about our special forces, I have rather more faith in them than in these Russian thugs. For a start, none of them choose the limelight. Have you seen what has happened to Lugovoi since? No, on reflection you probably have no idea what Im on about.
Touchy little fella, aren't you?
How can you have more faith in a like for like organisation? You know as little about our special forces as you do theirs, other than what is drip fed through various channels (and a lot of that is put out as smoke and mirrors to appease the masses that think they have a right to know sensitive information). I know we all like to think that our sh*t doesn't stink but the truth is more than likely that they're all as bad as each other.
Thanks for completely dismissing my, and assuming I don't have any, thoughts on Lugovoi before you'd heard them. That sort of dismissive attitude neither serves you well, shows you in a good light or wins a reasoned debate.
Good day to you, sir.
Yes, I am. Especially when irked by a Spanner talking bollocks on a Charlton forum :-)
Seriously, if you had lived for 22 years with the Czechs, (and a Czech) you might have a better understanding as to why there can be no comparison between MI6 and the FSB.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, we live in an advanced democracy subject to the rule of law. All our spies and military forces have been brought up in such a state.
None of those things are true about Russia or a Russian. Therefore you are not comparing like for like. They are hardly on the same planet. And the difference is widening. As this appalling episode, and the meticulous investigation of it which only a country like the UK could conduct, demonstrates.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
The world is a slightly better place without him.
Oh so thats all right then.
Met him, did you?
Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule and/or scrutiny as any others.
I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.
I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
Of course i havent met him, thats why i dont rush to condemn him in the foul way the other poster did.
As to your question about our special forces, I have rather more faith in them than in these Russian thugs. For a start, none of them choose the limelight. Have you seen what has happened to Lugovoi since? No, on reflection you probably have no idea what Im on about.
Touchy little fella, aren't you?
How can you have more faith in a like for like organisation? You know as little about our special forces as you do theirs, other than what is drip fed through various channels (and a lot of that is put out as smoke and mirrors to appease the masses that think they have a right to know sensitive information). I know we all like to think that our sh*t doesn't stink but the truth is more than likely that they're all as bad as each other.
Thanks for completely dismissing my, and assuming I don't have any, thoughts on Lugovoi before you'd heard them. That sort of dismissive attitude neither serves you well, shows you in a good light or wins a reasoned debate.
Good day to you, sir.
Yes, I am. Especially when irked by a Spanner talking bollocks on a Charlton forum :-)
Seriously, if you had lived for 22 years with the Czechs, (and a Czech) you might have a better understanding as to why there can be no comparison between MI6 and the FSB.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, we live in an advanced democracy subject to the rule of law. All our spies and military forces have been brought up in such a state.
None of those things are true about Russia or a Russian. Therefore you are not comparing like for like. They are hardly on the same planet. And the difference is widening. As this appalling episode, and the meticulous investigation of it which only a country like the UK could conduct, demonstrates.
Look where the British sense of fair play gets us - we get walked over from every direction.
I cannot accept that we refuse to get our hands dirty and bloodied where national interests require protection.
Can you ever see the Russians allowing people who don't even live within their borders or who have never even visited their country claim legal aid from the Russian state to sue the Russian government for alleged abuse during war as the Iraqi's are currently doing with the UK, driven by British based law firms?
As much as I abhor tyranny, I accept the need and justification to get ugly when extreme measures are required to protect our national interests and our worldwide perception as a strong and secure nation.
I don't think we are talking about the same thing.
The British equivalent of what the Russians have done here is if Cameron ordered MI6 to bump off an expat journalist simply because he seemed likely to release a story that Cameron had benefiited by millions from, say, the sell off of a major British state utility. This would not be in the UK's interest but in Cameron's. I'm no fan of Cameron but the idea is ludicrous. But it is exactly what has happened in this case.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
The world is a slightly better place without him.
Oh so thats all right then.
Met him, did you?
Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule and/or scrutiny as any others.
I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.
I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
Of course i havent met him, thats why i dont rush to condemn him in the foul way the other poster did.
As to your question about our special forces, I have rather more faith in them than in these Russian thugs. For a start, none of them choose the limelight. Have you seen what has happened to Lugovoi since? No, on reflection you probably have no idea what Im on about.
Touchy little fella, aren't you?
How can you have more faith in a like for like organisation? You know as little about our special forces as you do theirs, other than what is drip fed through various channels (and a lot of that is put out as smoke and mirrors to appease the masses that think they have a right to know sensitive information). I know we all like to think that our sh*t doesn't stink but the truth is more than likely that they're all as bad as each other.
Thanks for completely dismissing my, and assuming I don't have any, thoughts on Lugovoi before you'd heard them. That sort of dismissive attitude neither serves you well, shows you in a good light or wins a reasoned debate.
Good day to you, sir.
Yes, I am. Especially when irked by a Spanner talking bollocks on a Charlton forum :-)
Seriously, if you had lived for 22 years with the Czechs, (and a Czech) you might have a better understanding as to why there can be no comparison between MI6 and the FSB.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, we live in an advanced democracy subject to the rule of law. All our spies and military forces have been brought up in such a state.
None of those things are true about Russia or a Russian. Therefore you are not comparing like for like. They are hardly on the same planet. And the difference is widening. As this appalling episode, and the meticulous investigation of it which only a country like the UK could conduct, demonstrates.
Look where the British sense of fair play gets us - we get walked over from every direction.
I cannot accept that we refuse to get our hands dirty and bloodied where national interests require protection.
Can you ever see the Russians allowing people who don't even live within their borders or who have never even visited their country claim legal aid from the Russian state to sue the Russian government for alleged abuse during war as the Iraqi's are currently doing with the UK, driven by British based law firms?
As much as I abhor tyranny, I accept the need and justification to get ugly when extreme measures are required to protect our national interests and our worldwide perception as a strong and secure nation.
I don't think we are talking about the same thing.
The British equivalent of what the Russians have done here is if Cameron ordered MI6 to bump off an expat journalist simply because he seemed likely to release a story that Cameron had benefiited by millions from, say, the sell off of a major British state utility. This would not be in the UK's interest but in Cameron's. I'm no fan of Cameron but the idea is ludicrous. But it is exactly what has happened in this case.
You probably know more about this than I do, then.
All I can tell you is that the two Russians I asked about this whilst there this week, both of whom have lttle respect or love for their leader, agreed that, if it was carried out by the FSB, it was a justified act to protect the motherland.
Both of these guys are educated and speak their minds openly and articulately about many world issues.
I'll leave it here as I need to be up bright and breezy to drive down to see my daughter in her new house in Forest Gate in the morning and then on to the Valley - let's agree to differ but maybe accept that there's usually a bigger picture behind most politically intriguing events.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.
The world is a slightly better place without him.
Oh so thats all right then.
Met him, did you?
Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule and/or scrutiny as any others.
I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.
I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
Of course i havent met him, thats why i dont rush to condemn him in the foul way the other poster did.
As to your question about our special forces, I have rather more faith in them than in these Russian thugs. For a start, none of them choose the limelight. Have you seen what has happened to Lugovoi since? No, on reflection you probably have no idea what Im on about.
Touchy little fella, aren't you?
How can you have more faith in a like for like organisation? You know as little about our special forces as you do theirs, other than what is drip fed through various channels (and a lot of that is put out as smoke and mirrors to appease the masses that think they have a right to know sensitive information). I know we all like to think that our sh*t doesn't stink but the truth is more than likely that they're all as bad as each other.
Thanks for completely dismissing my, and assuming I don't have any, thoughts on Lugovoi before you'd heard them. That sort of dismissive attitude neither serves you well, shows you in a good light or wins a reasoned debate.
Good day to you, sir.
Yes, I am. Especially when irked by a Spanner talking bollocks on a Charlton forum :-)
Seriously, if you had lived for 22 years with the Czechs, (and a Czech) you might have a better understanding as to why there can be no comparison between MI6 and the FSB.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, we live in an advanced democracy subject to the rule of law. All our spies and military forces have been brought up in such a state.
None of those things are true about Russia or a Russian. Therefore you are not comparing like for like. They are hardly on the same planet. And the difference is widening. As this appalling episode, and the meticulous investigation of it which only a country like the UK could conduct, demonstrates.
Look where the British sense of fair play gets us - we get walked over from every direction.
I cannot accept that we refuse to get our hands dirty and bloodied where national interests require protection.
Can you ever see the Russians allowing people who don't even live within their borders or who have never even visited their country claim legal aid from the Russian state to sue the Russian government for alleged abuse during war as the Iraqi's are currently doing with the UK, driven by British based law firms?
As much as I abhor tyranny, I accept the need and justification to get ugly when extreme measures are required to protect our national interests and our worldwide perception as a strong and secure nation.
I don't think we are talking about the same thing.
The British equivalent of what the Russians have done here is if Cameron ordered MI6 to bump off an expat journalist simply because he seemed likely to release a story that Cameron had benefiited by millions from, say, the sell off of a major British state utility. This would not be in the UK's interest but in Cameron's. I'm no fan of Cameron but the idea is ludicrous. But it is exactly what has happened in this case.
It is also worth noting that Litvinenko is far from the first opponent of Putin to have died in suspicious circumstances - it has been said before that if you wish to understand Putin the works of Mario Puzo are as good a place as any to start.
What I don't get about all this is that if you want to get rid of someone then surely there are better ways of doing it than sticking some heavy duty shit in his tea that takes a week or two to do the job. Strange.
What I don't get about all this is that if you want to get rid of someone then surely there are better ways of doing it than sticking some heavy duty shit in his tea that takes a week or two to do the job. Strange.
The whole objective of the murder was to make a statement, I think Litvinenko just happened to be a someone who needed to be dealt with at the same time the Kremlin needed that statement to be made. This meant Litvinenko became the lucky individual who was chosen to convey that message.
Murder on it's own is generally indefensible, but murder using such a means as radiation poisoning is despicable and something which requires a whole new level of barbarism to carry out.
Given that Litvinenko was a former member of the KGB and making accusations about Putin's involvement in blowing up apartment blocks as the pretext for a second Chechen war and his personal life and financial corruption - as well as being close to the odious Berezovsky who was waging a campaign against Putin for having usurped his territory, it is quite easy to understand why Litvinenko had to be taken out in such a fashion so as to discourage others. There are plenty of others who are taken out less dramatically.
I don't doubt for one moment that we are dealing with some very nasty geysers in Putin and his cohorts. And I'm not suggesting that Cameron is in the same League. But I am suggesting that we can behave in a very devious and unprincipaled way when it suits us.
And we are just as good as anyone when it comes to hiding our muckier dealings.
The British equivalent of what the Russians have done here is if Cameron ordered MI6 to bump off an expat journalist simply because he seemed likely to release a story that Cameron had benefiited by millions from, say, the sell off of a major British state utility. This would not be in the UK's interest but in Cameron's. I'm no fan of Cameron but the idea is ludicrous. But it is exactly what has happened in this case.
That would be awful ::Google's Dr. David Kelly..::
I find the subject of international assassinations, and where boundaries and lines are drawn, quite interesting. I'm American, we have a long history of carrying out assassinations of both foreigners and our own (King, JFK, most likely RFK as well). Israel gets a large amount of foreign aid from us, and they are unrelenting in their targeted assassinations of foreign citizens. We are close allies with numerous countries (including NTAO allies) who carry them out as well.
For me personally, whenever I think of international assassinations I think first of the people my country has tortured and killed under what are indefensible war crimes. I am far more concerned with addressing those than the crimes of foreign Governments carried out in foreign lands. This is not condoning said acts, simply showing where my priorities lie. And that shows my bias.
@PragueAddick, I largely agree with you, Putin's is a truly horrible regime. And no, I wouldn't say it to his face. I am curious to hear what you think of Ronald Reagan being lauded as the man who "ended the Cold War." It's a common American trope, one that you'll find in most textbooks here, and frankly it's ridiculous.
I love Luke Harding's writing. He has written extensively about this regime, his time living in Russia (he was kicked out in the wake of WikiLeaks after living there for a decade I believe), and about some of Russia's most wealthy are investing in London/the UK in what may be an attempt to legitimize their money.
All of this reminds me of a passage from Graham Greene's Getting to Know The General in which he and Castro talk about what will happen when the Soviet Union falls, and how the KGB will assume power in what might be a far more ruthless regime in the end.
What I don't get about all this is that if you want to get rid of someone then surely there are better ways of doing it than sticking some heavy duty shit in his tea that takes a week or two to do the job. Strange.
Same as the fella that was found dead in a sports bag. Strange that too. As much as I admire the work the secret services do for us there will always be a chance that they will meet a death from a likeminded service that makes everyone sit up and take notice. He could have been shot or stabbed could have been easier but then again it could be a case of the other "side" saying we go radioactive material in to your country,
Very interesting alternate view on LBC’s Ken and David Show yesterday with Dr. Julia Svetlichnaya who worked with Alexander Litvinenko in the years leading up to his death. She also gave evidence at the inquiry.
Her view is countered by Gerard Batten, but either way very interesting and really worth a listen. Even Ken Livingstone was wobbling with his views at the end of the program.
What I don't get about all this is that if you want to get rid of someone then surely there are better ways of doing it than sticking some heavy duty shit in his tea that takes a week or two to do the job. Strange.
Same as the fella that was found dead in a sports bag. Strange that too. As much as I admire the work the secret services do for us there will always be a chance that they will meet a death from a likeminded service that makes everyone sit up and take notice. He could have been shot or stabbed could have been easier but then again it could be a case of the other "side" saying we go radioactive material in to your country,
Found dead in a sports bag that he got into and done up himself, these things happen in this line of work all over the world
I'm not sure what the point of an enquiry that concludes it was 'probably' on Putin's order when everybody else could conclude that without bothering and paying for one.
Very interesting alternate view on LBC’s Ken and David Show yesterday with Dr. Julia Svetlichnaya who worked with Alexander Litvinenko in the years leading up to his death. She also gave evidence at the inquiry.
Her view is countered by Gerard Batten, but either way very interesting and really worth a listen. Even Ken Livingstone was wobbling with his views at the end of the program.
Comments
It would seem that we just wait for them to either fall mentally ill or die before deciding not to follow the claims up, whereas Russia simply off anyone that may spill the beans on their ruling elite.
Maybe I'm just an old cynic
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Putins-Kleptocracy-Who-Owns-Russia-ebook/dp/B00L01GHGY
The raging question in the world today is who is the real Vladimir Putin and what are his intentions. Karen Dawisha’s brilliant Putin’s Kleptocracy provides an answer, describing how Putin got to power, the cabal he brought with him, the billions they have looted, and his plan to restore the Greater Russia.
Russian scholar Dawisha describes and exposes the origins of Putin’s kleptocratic regime. She presents extensive new evidence about the Putin circle’s use of public positions for personal gain even before Putin became president in 2000. She documents the establishment of Bank Rossiya, now sanctioned by the US; the rise of the Ozero cooperative, founded by Putin and others who are now subject to visa bans and asset freezes; the links between Putin, Petromed, and “Putin’s Palace” near Sochi; and the role of security officials from Putin’s KGB days in Leningrad and Dresden, many of whom have maintained their contacts with Russian organized crime.
Putin’s Kleptocracy is the result of years of research into the KGB and the various Russian crime syndicates. Dawisha’s sources include Stasi archives; Russian insiders; investigative journalists in the US, Britain, Germany, Finland, France, and Italy; and Western officials who served in Moscow. Russian journalists wrote part of this story when the Russian media was still free. “Many of them died for this story, and their work has largely been scrubbed from the Internet, and even from Russian libraries,” Dawisha says. “But some of that work remains.”
Seriously, if you had lived for 22 years with the Czechs, (and a Czech) you might have a better understanding as to why there can be no comparison between MI6 and the FSB.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, we live in an advanced democracy subject to the rule of law. All our spies and military forces have been brought up in such a state.
None of those things are true about Russia or a Russian. Therefore you are not comparing like for like. They are hardly on the same planet. And the difference is widening. As this appalling episode, and the meticulous investigation of it which only a country like the UK could conduct, demonstrates.
I cannot accept that we refuse to get our hands dirty and bloodied where national interests require protection.
Can you ever see the Russians allowing people who don't even live within their borders or who have never even visited their country claim legal aid from the Russian state to sue the Russian government for alleged abuse during war as the Iraqi's are currently doing with the UK, driven by British based law firms?
As much as I abhor tyranny, I accept the need and justification to get ugly when extreme measures are required to protect our national interests and our worldwide perception as a strong and secure nation.
The British equivalent of what the Russians have done here is if Cameron ordered MI6 to bump off an expat journalist simply because he seemed likely to release a story that Cameron had benefiited by millions from, say, the sell off of a major British state utility. This would not be in the UK's interest but in Cameron's. I'm no fan of Cameron but the idea is ludicrous. But it is exactly what has happened in this case.
All I can tell you is that the two Russians I asked about this whilst there this week, both of whom have lttle respect or love for their leader, agreed that, if it was carried out by the FSB, it was a justified act to protect the motherland.
Both of these guys are educated and speak their minds openly and articulately about many world issues.
I'll leave it here as I need to be up bright and breezy to drive down to see my daughter in her new house in Forest Gate in the morning and then on to the Valley - let's agree to differ but maybe accept that there's usually a bigger picture behind most politically intriguing events.
Murder on it's own is generally indefensible, but murder using such a means as radiation poisoning is despicable and something which requires a whole new level of barbarism to carry out.
http://en.rsf.org/russia.html
I told you think Mario Puzo if you wish to understand Putin.
And we are just as good as anyone when it comes to hiding our muckier dealings.
I find the subject of international assassinations, and where boundaries and lines are drawn, quite interesting. I'm American, we have a long history of carrying out assassinations of both foreigners and our own (King, JFK, most likely RFK as well). Israel gets a large amount of foreign aid from us, and they are unrelenting in their targeted assassinations of foreign citizens. We are close allies with numerous countries (including NTAO allies) who carry them out as well.
For me personally, whenever I think of international assassinations I think first of the people my country has tortured and killed under what are indefensible war crimes. I am far more concerned with addressing those than the crimes of foreign Governments carried out in foreign lands. This is not condoning said acts, simply showing where my priorities lie. And that shows my bias.
@PragueAddick, I largely agree with you, Putin's is a truly horrible regime. And no, I wouldn't say it to his face. I am curious to hear what you think of Ronald Reagan being lauded as the man who "ended the Cold War." It's a common American trope, one that you'll find in most textbooks here, and frankly it's ridiculous.
I love Luke Harding's writing. He has written extensively about this regime, his time living in Russia (he was kicked out in the wake of WikiLeaks after living there for a decade I believe), and about some of Russia's most wealthy are investing in London/the UK in what may be an attempt to legitimize their money.
All of this reminds me of a passage from Graham Greene's Getting to Know The General in which he and Castro talk about what will happen when the Soviet Union falls, and how the KGB will assume power in what might be a far more ruthless regime in the end.
Same as the fella that was found dead in a sports bag. Strange that too.
As much as I admire the work the secret services do for us there will always be a chance that they will meet a death from a likeminded service that makes everyone sit up and take notice. He could have been shot or stabbed could have been easier but then again it could be a case of the other "side" saying we go radioactive material in to your country,
Her view is countered by Gerard Batten, but either way very interesting and really worth a listen. Even Ken Livingstone was wobbling with his views at the end of the program.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/litvinenko-inquiry-witness-makes-ken-doubt-findings--123702